Toyota Sienna Future Models

mjb56

I've been trying to spec out an '04 Sienna LE with a dealer I've done business with in the past. Good dealer, sells both Hondas and Toyotas. They tell me that you cannot get the LE DVD package with the side curtain air bag option or the VSC traction control. Has anyone else run across this restriction and what possible reason could there be for that? Thanks

samnoe

Sorry for the question, maybe it's too stupid. But what is it 115-volt power outlets which Toyota (only) offers on many vehicles?

Most other cars have 12-volt outlets. I don't understand electric this good, can someone explain me the advantage of it?

Also, does anybody know how many watts the audio system of the new Sienna will offer? Especially the one with 10-speaker surround sound? The new Mercury Monterey will have 140 watts, but Toyota Avalon XLS offers 250 watts!

Also on the Avalon, for 2003 they offer a DVD nav system with a remote controller. Will that be available on the Sienna?

Now one point, maybe some of you will not like it, maybe not agree, but it's a matter of fact. I have now a Ford Windstar, which has excellent traction in the snow. I live in upstate NY, and came last night (4:00 am) (what a weather! almost 20 inches of snow!) from Brooklyn to my house, with no problems, and 2 friends came along with 01/03 Toyota Siennas, and had many traction problems. I also have 3 friends with Honda Odysseys, and they have a big problem with snowy weathers, they're spinning around like no tomorrow...

It's a fact that in terms of traction, the Windstar beats the imported models. One of my above friends with the 2003 Sienna had a 2000 Windstar before, and due to many problems he switched to Toyota Sienna which he loves, but he told me: When the snow start to fall, I need back my Windstar, it performed much better than my new Sienna!

So bottom line, if you're buying a new Sienna, my opinion is, go with AWD. at least go with snow tires! My Windstar I came home this night is a front-wheel drive and regular all-season tires, and no problem!

coolguyky7

I can answer your question about the electric outlets. The 12V outlets standard on almost any car is the cigarette lighter style which can power small devices. The 115V used in the Avalon and now the Sienna is just like the two prong outlet found in the walls of your home.

samnoe

What do you mean to say, it has a regular plug, so I could use, for example, my vaccum cleaner? or small heater?

lekn

Samnoe wrote:
> What do you mean to say, it has a regular plug, so I could use, for example, my vaccum cleaner? or small heater?

Make sure you check the manual about any power/wattage limitations. For small current draw appliances such as a VCR, charging up your cell phone, a camcorder etc are definitely OK. But for things like heater, vacuums, hair dryer etc, they require very high current; so make very sure the manual is read very carefully or you will blow the fuse.

I can't find any detailed info on this on any brochure released so far.

samnoe

>lekn wrote:
"For small current draw appliances such as a VCR, charging up your cell phone, a camcorder, etc. are definitely OK"...

Just asking, these things are definitely OK with a 12-volt outlet, too. So again, what's the advantage of the 115 volts over the 12v?

jwankel

The advantage of 115v vs 12v is you don't have to have a "car charger" or cigarate lighter adapter to plug something in. I'd be nice to be able to charge the camcorder battery in the car without having to buy an expensive car adapter. Or maybe charging a laptop battery. Or how about powering a game console (since with the DVD player you get a set of inputs).

But if you already have the car adapter(s) for your devices, then no advantage.

coolguyky7

I find that having the cigarette lighter adapter can get in the way in the car. It's not a big problem on our Avalon since it has a 115V outlet, but in the Sequoia it was.

I would say Toyota put in the 115V outlet specifically to enhance the entertainment system along with its other uses for other people.

bargamon

The link was cool. It does not look like a Sienna but a variant of the Matrix small van looking car. FUnny when cars start looking like minivans.

Too bad they can't call them anything but minivan.

jmjkon

I would also be interested to know if you can get the LE with DVD installed - it would seem dumb not to offer this. Right? Demand would be very high I would think-

If anyone finds out more on why we can/can't get this combo, I would love to hear it- JK

dsm6

Did I hear right that the center diff on the AWD 04 Sienna will be an open diff?

mgfl

1346: LE package 11 (CM) seems to include EVERYthing.
1355: LE packages 8 (BY), 9 (BZ), and 11 (CM) include DVD amongst other options.

toocajun4u

Yup.

dsm6

Thanks. A bit disappointing. More cost effective for Toyota compared to some form of LSD, I suppose. Not exactly leading edge safety technology, though. At least you can get VSC.

lekn

dsm6 wrote:
> Thanks. A bit disappointing. More cost effective for Toyota compared to some form of LSD, I suppose. Not exactly leading edge safety technology, though.

I see it differently. This is the same AWD system used in X5, 3 series AWD, Mercedes M class, and all the 4 matic system. If done correctly, it is a very effective system. Well, at least they believe it's good enough for S-Class!

Sienna AWD will have 50/50 torque split in normal driving, and that's good. It is a real full time AWD, unlike for example, Acura MDX's VTM-4 or Volvo XC90's Haldex II which have 100/0 and 95/5 split in normal driving - more like a part-time automatically engaging AWD in all practical purposes.

jmjkon

Thanks, MGFL, much appreciated - if I could ask you one more though - where did you see the two-letter names for the packages? Is there a website available? I didn't see those codes on the minisite-

Also, is it unrealistic to expect invoice pricing available at this time, on ANY site?

Just wondering - very interested in the 04 Sienna - thanks - JK

dyh555

go to google and search for siennaclub org
they have the prices on that web site.

bearpamplin

I have the Sienna pricing from a person who works at Toyota Logistics in Princeton. They take ownership as soon as they roll off the production line.

Base model CE is $22,900, nothing on it. AWD top of the line with DVD & Navigation will be $42,000. So there's a $20,000 gap that the vehicle you want can fall into. The AWD will start at $36,000 for the limited model.

shabbycat

Hi,I know we've seen the allocations from some parts of the country, but wondering if anyone knows what the Los Angeles Allocations will be like? Of course I'm hoping for more CE's than we've seen on the others Also, will the packages be different here? I mean, yes some mountain folks may need it here, but most of us don't need windshield wiper de-icers.

bearpamplin

Sorry, I didn't know that pricing was out already. Apologies to everyone.

lb535

What exactly is the ramifications of an open differential? Does this mean that if only one wheel has traction, the van can't send the needed power to that wheel? From what I understand, the AWD system on the Mercedes ML cannot send power to only one wheel, rather it reduces power to other wheels to avoid wheelspin/skidding. This of course means the vehicle will get stuck easier.

Also, does anyone have a figure for ground clearance on the AWD Sienna?

amhjms

So did anyone actually see that the new '04 van has inputs (like for my XBOX) when ordered w/ the factory DVD entertainment system? They commonly do, but I'd like to have this confirmed. Thanks

dsm6

The max torque an open diff can send to any wheel (or pair of wheels in this case) is limited by the wheel(s) with the least traction. Presumably the front and rear diffs are open as well. By design it's an even 50/50 split of available torque all of the time; if one pair of wheels has no traction making the available torque for that wheel 0, that makes 50% times 0 for both - the two wheels with no traction spin and the two with traction just sit there. The same applies for side to side torque transfer if front and rear diffs are open as well.

So, if all diffs are open, then yes it will get stuck more easily. More easily, I should say, than a system like that used by Subaru, or VW-Audi (which can transfer power (torque) "from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip" (sound familiar?). It'll be better than 2wd, though, so its a plus in that sense and that is a key point to remember. I wouldn't spin it as a plus relative to one of the more sophisticated systems, though.

It should be noted that some systems with LSDs center have open diffs front and rear (I think many Subies are this way). So they'd be just as stuck if only one wheel has traction. Also, some LSDs require at least some traction at the "loose" wheel to work, and they furthermore limit the largest possible torque bias to considerably less than 100/0. All of this technology helps, but it can't work miracles.

On a related note: $36k and up for an AWD model? Ouch. That's out of my league, so I guess what type of center diff it has is academic as far as I'm concerned.

dsm6

As an off-roader who has driven a vehicle with open front and rear diffs can tell you, when traction is limited, the brakes can be applied to effectively increase the amount of available torque at a loose wheel and therefore at its mate.

This is essentially what traction control can do automatically for you - brakes can be applied to limit wheel spin and, as a by-product, the max available torque is raised making more torque available to the opposite wheel with traction. So traction control will mitigate some of the down side to the use of open diffs. It won't act as fast as an LSD since most traction control systems pull back power first, then apply brakes. I'm not sure how the Sienna system works, and furthermore don't know if it optional or standard on AWD models. I'm guessing it is standard because it would make the system work so much better.

BTW, I'm not an expert on this stuff, so don't go taking it as gospel. Like I said, it's all academic to me at this point. ;-)

lekn

Maybe I just presume it is known and I was not specific enough. No, open differential by itself would not work. In Sienna, BMW and Mercedes, traction control is used to redistribute torque when the wheel slips.

And yes, it can distribute to one wheel if necessary.

jmjkon

I was just wondering if anyone here has bought an extended warranty and if so, were you able to use it without a hassle from the dealer.

Also, has anyone bought an extended warranty over the internet and used it without a problem? I know that more affordable warranties are available for the Hondas on the net, but wasn't sure about Toyotas-

If anyone can pass along any info I'd really appreciate it, thanks - JK

jwankel

With the DVD system you'll have a set of inputs (stereo audio and composite video). Right above the inputs is a two-prong AC power plug! It's located on the drivers side just behind the 2nd row seat.

lekn

lb535 wrote:
> does anyone have a figure for ground clearance on the AWD Sienna?

Sienna Ground Clearance: 6.9"

> From what I understand, the AWD system on the Mercedes ML cannot send power to only one wheel, rather it reduces power to other wheels to avoid wheelspin/skidding.

Actually, ML, similar to Sienna, *CAN* direct most of the power to one wheel. You probably have misunderstood that it cannot send 100% torque to one wheel. But using traction control and put brakes on other slipping three wheels, torque will be directed by the three open differentials to the remaing non-slipping wheel. Not 100%, but enough to get the car moving.

bargamon

You can get AWD on Le and Xle.

I always had a problem with a 38k Town and Country with AWD because the base Voyager can be had for like 20k.

I realize the engine is different as are size of wheels and trim upgrades. My problem is that the platform and drive train are the same. Now that makes the ce and le one hell of a deal, but the Limited a option layden profit center. Maybe I need to consider the XLE and keep the price down.

Im not dissing the Sienna, in fact I think it will be a very good value, so long as you keep the sonar and other silly thing in the parts bin.
I like silly toys, but there are limits. Seems like a very General Motors thing to do. They once used a Cavalier as the platform for a Caddilac, the Cimmeron it was called. Loaded with options, they passed it off as a Cadilac.
The limited is very nice, but does not offer enough structural or performance enhancements.

Maybe at invoice, but hold the DVD and NAV. at 34 or 35k its Ok. But 42k?

lb535

It's good that GM no longer tries to pass off a tarted-up Cavalier as a Cadillac Cimarron. Instead, they try to pass of a tarted-up Chevy Tahoe as a Cadillac Escalade... Just as embarrassing...

Thanks for all the details about differentials. It sounds like even with open diff(s), the Sienna AWD should have decent traction if equipped with traction control. Not all traction control systems utilize the brakes, but I'll assume the Sienna's does.

Yes, there is lots of profit in options, which is why I'm surprised options have fallen out of favor at most car manufacturers which instead now offer only a small number of "packages", if that. I sure miss the days when you could pick and choose from a menu of 30 options and there weren't all sorts of restrictions as to what could be ordered with what.

I'm also not sure some of the Limited toys are all that necessary. I'd happily trade the laser-guided cruise control and power side doors for driver's seat memory, cornering lights, oil and voltage gauges, and a multi-adjustable front passenger seat.

jwankel

I agree with you about trading the Limited's "toys" such as laser cruise for more useful features. Seat memory being our missing feature.

I found a comment form at toyota.com. I relayed my thoughts, likes & dislikes. My comment may end up in a bit bucket, but I'm hoping someone will read it.

http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/toyota.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php- - - ?p_sid=c-PKHdCg&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX- - - 3Jvd19jbnQ9MTU5JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=

bargamon

I think power doors are cool.

I recall on Sienna #1 my son almost took the head off our daughter, he closed the door with out looking. Scared me half to death! I like power doors. The power tailgate is neat, Im not sure its worth 400, but I'll cross that bridge if I get to it.

shabbycat

Have you heard from your dealer yet?

christopherp

I have noticed quite a few appends on this forum regarding pricing for the 2004 Sienna. Many of the appends are incorrect. Toyota has the MSRP posted on toyota.com. Here are the MSRP for the various Sienna models:

Sienna CE 7-passenger $23,465
Sienna CE 8-passenger $24,085
Sienna LE 7-passenger $24,770
Sienna LE 8-passenger $24,920
Sienna XLE 7-passenger $28,770
Sienna Limited 7-passenger $34,990
Sienna AWD CE 7-passenger $28,385
Sienna AWD LE 7-passenger $31,975
Sienna AWD XLE 7-passenger $37,440

alpha01

you MEAN

Sienna AWD LE 7-passenger $28,385
Sienna AWD XLE 7-passenger $31,975
Sienna AWD Limited 7-passenger $37,440

garyw

Ok - from the postings and other sources I can not see any value that justifies the $1300 difference for the LE.

Am I missing some features but it looks like prvacy glass is the only tangible item. You can get that for $300 post sale.

Any insight is appreciated. FYI, local dealer in Oregon said mid-March for delivery.

beckyok

In my last conversation with him I changed my preference to a LE with no pkg. or just an AM pkg. There aren't any in this region in the initial allocation. Now I'm wondering if I should go back to the CE with the AG pkg. This is really driving me crazy. What was supposed to happen on the 19th?

Peace, Becky

beckyok

Actually it looks like the privacy glass and pwr. mirrors are a no cost option, pkg. AF. It could be that you get it with pkg. AG which is a roof rack and cruise. Either way it sounds like a bargain for $470. I personally find a roof rack invaluable. Other than that it's really just seat and door panel materials, an engine immobilizer, Manual lumbar support, (I've never even touched mine on the current Sienna), illuminated vanity mirrors, flat folding front passenger seat, and steering wheel mounted audio controls. I think you're right, a huge jump for seemingly small items. The problem seems to be getting a CE with only pkg. AG. I thought I found one but but it had alloy wheels. If I'm going to spend an extra $800 I might as well jump to the LE! Good luck with your search.
    
Peace, Becky

shabbycat

04 Sienna on the 19th of February. Sorry if I'm wrong. I'll have to go back and check the older posts.

shabbycat

Sorry 'bout that Becky.

Jnr1? Well.... I'm dying to know!

van42

Is it possible to order an LE version with leather? Also, can you get a power adjustable driver seat in the LE version. Mama wants both in her next Toyota while Daddy wants to keep the price down? What's the answer and what's the cost? Are invoice prices out yet?
Any recommendations for dealerships in the Omaha/Des Moines area offering deals like those found in Oregon? Thanks, Greg

minnija

the MSRP prices posted on toyota.com are including the destination and handling fees. the base MSRP is listed below as well as the dealer invoice price including those aforementioned fees. the info is from a competing sienna site so i cant post the name.... no invoice prices in packages yet that i can find.

Sienna FWD MSRP and Dealer Invoice price(includes shipping, holdback, etc..)

CE 7 Passenger $22,955 $21,602
CE 8 Passenger $23,575 $22,172
LE 7 Passenger $24,260 $22,801
LE 8 Passenger $24,410 $22,940
XLE 7 Passenger $28,260 $26,188
Limited 7 Passenger $34,480 $31,839

Sienna AWD MSRP and Dealer Invoice price(includes shipping, holdback, etc..)

LE 7 Passenger $27,875 $26,123
XLE 7 Passenger $31,465 $29,100
Limited 7 Passenger $36,930 $34,066

dplachta

I've looked to find the color codes and option codes to help in my negotiation with a dealer and can't find anything on the Toyota website except the mini-Sienna site with a simple preview of the model.

christopherp

However, click on the "Printable specs" at the bottom and a list of options will be displayed. There is also a link for "Prices." The information you are looking for will be added to the Toyota website in the next few weeks as the vans start arriving at dealers.

nicolekir

Can anyone tell me if the LE AWD will come in 8 passenger, or only 7 passenger??

jenr1

If you are referring to the post about the dealer getting the car in 5 days (post 1321) that was on Sunday the 16th, it hasn't been 5 days yet. I was actually going to email him today. We were suppose to go to the dealership on Monday to meet with him, but we got 2ft of snow. So I want to touch base with him to let him know I want to see it as soon as he gets it. I also am expecting that not to come within the 5 days like he said due to the blizzard. I guess, from what the sales manager told him, there was a shipment dropped off in NJ and that a truck was going there to bring them to MA. We'll see, I am gonna email him now.

deepan

cant get them. AWD is only 7 passsenger

newcar35

Does Toyota have us over a barrel with pricing? Our local Chicago dealer says they're only selling for MSRP, and says all the other Chicago dealers are doing likewise. Anyone have a pricing success story? I HATE paying MSRP, but REALLY want to buy soon (it's the Sienna or the Odyssey at MSRP, so I guess I'm over a barrel either way!). Any thoughts on how to get the price down??

dyh555

CHeck out the Odessey Prices paid.... here is a post from someone in chicago...if I were you, I would buy the Odessey for $2000 below MSRP than Sienna at MSRP!
#3373 of 3373 Bought my Odyssey last night!! by smartyboy Feb 20, 2003 (3:19 pm)
I was driving through Crystal Lake last night (suburb of Chicago) and saw that the local dealer and recieved a Sandstone Odyssey with leather. It did not have the DVD however. The salesperson came out and said that they are putting in the Honda aftermarket in most of the vans and would do the same with this. I told him about the $2000 discount offered at the other dealer to see if they would match. Secondly, I told them what I was looking for on my trade. 15 minutes later I had my new van. The dealer called a few minutes ago and said the DVD can be installed tomorrow.

While I noticed that they have put several accessories on some of the vans, they do not push them and will sell you a van without all the little add ons. However it was nice to see what a few looked like with some of the touches.

I am happy with the deal and very happy with the dealer. If in the Chicago area, call over to Crystal Lake Honda in Crystal Lake Illinois.

shabbycat

There won't be any way to tell if it's MSRP or nothing w/the new Sienna's until they are actually out. I don't put a lot of faith in what dealers tell you about what other dealers would do, LOL. Also, even if they start out at strict MSRP, the story may change after the other new vans of the year start coming out (Quest in July I think, Windstar later).