Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

ateixeira

Do you have ramps? I used Rhino ramps to do that job on my Miata. You have more room to work and it's safer.

-juice

jfl

I didn't use anything to change rear diffy fluid. The bolts are really tight and I had to position the wrench+breaker bar and use the jack to break the bolt free.

For the tranny, I drove one front tire up onto the curb.

I'm not familiar with Amsoil but just make sure the tranny oil does NOT have friction modifiers. The synchros need a bit of friction to work.

Jim

toboggan

Don't know about Amsoil having "friction modifiers". Have to talk to my dealer (my son). I had hoped that someone else has used a synthetic gear lube.

MNSteve

jlawton2

My '98 Forester has recently started to produce a high pitched whine from the forward right area of the car when I run at speeds 70 mph and up. It's not the road surface. It happens on any road. It's an unvarying noise like a high flute note. The noise is only produced under acceleration, the instant I lift my foot from the accelerator the noise abates. Because it goes away with hardly any change in speed just my foot on or off accelerator I don't think it's the tires ??

I'm late getting it in for scheduled service but was planning to do that in the next couple of weeks anyway. Any idea what I'll be looking at in terms of a cause and cure?

On another note:
Going back and forth between my 98 and my wife's new 03 Forester the 03 feels alot looser so far as doors and other hinged stuff and it's way looser than her previous Outback. When you close the doors the whole window assembly rattles noticeably unless you keep one hand pressed on the window while shutting the doors, whereas with the '98 everything shuts with a more satisfyingly solid, if not weighty, clunk. Same for the rear hatch and hood. Things don't close completely unless they're slammed a bit which I hate to do for fear of worsening the problem.

I'd heard that the frame had been stiffened/reinforced with the 03 line so I thought it would be more not less solid feeling. But then the Forester is a couple of hundred pounds lighter now is it not so maybe that's the reason? With the doors it looks like the panel is also clipped differently to the outside metal shell on the '03. Is there aluminum anywhere significant other than the hood? Is slamming harder than usual not really going to hurt anything?

Just wondering what's different between the two that would be responsible. I doubt there is much that can be done other than make me check things out more carefully when I have to replace my '98.

J

ateixeira

The window track angle can be adjusted. Perhaps the newer Subie is not putting as much pressure up against the seals?

The whine - if you heard it at idle, with the car standing still, I'd say your silencer snorkus was disconnected or cracked. It's part of the intake.

I also thought wheel bearings, but that would not be throttle dependent.

So you've got me stumped. Check those two things anyway.

-juice

junkher

I know EXACTLY where the whine is coming from...
I WISH I knew WHAT it was caused from though. The dealership could not tell me this however.
It is very irritating and is an "under acceleration" or "engine/transmission load" and peaks at ~65-75 mph.

This is one of the most irritating factors of which I have previously bitched about-
(yes, way to much ) on my 03 Outback.
After less than 200 miles, my wife complained to me about the whine as sounding as if the radio was mistuned on the AM dial. It is within the same frequency range. Only those with Superman hearing are annoyed :-)
After the local dealer tracked it down to the transmission they replaced it with a NEW factory tranny.. The noise did NOT go away. They then drove several of the NEW cars and each one of them did it just the same. They had never noticed it ( they said ). Their final decision and answer was - ( it appears to be just a "quirk" of the vehicle and does not pose any problem). The problem it poses is- it's IRRITATING. They said we will just have to live with it.
 Long and short - The transmission is doing it and they dont know what to do to make them stop.

jlawton2

Thanks,

You know, I'd forgotten the earlier posts about the "am radio " sound and didn't make the connection but that is what it sounds like it's doing.

I'll let you know what the service people say about it. This dealer service was good about replacing the clutch assembly on our Outback when the dealer we bought it from wouldn't so hopefully they'll be straight with me about this.

Don't know if it'll do me any good though. The car is out of warranty now so replacing the tranny just to get rid of the noise isn't an option. It IS definitely annoying, and moreso to the passenger.

J

jfl

I use Redline synthetic products in the diffy and tranny. Runs fine without problems.

It didn't feel any different after the change...I still miss a shift now and then. 8~O

Jim

trek2002

junkher & jlawton2,

I'm currently in litigation with Subaru for what appears to be the exact same problem the two of you are experiencing.

Fortunately, I've complied with all the requirements of my states' Lemon Law.

Subaru initally replaced the pinion bearing/gear ring (at 3385) in hopes of repairing the 60-80mph whine that was gas pedal dependent. This did not stop the problem. The District Service Rep refused twice to attempt repairs.

My initial complaint Apr02, was not handled well by SOA. After the Letter of Notification of Defect to Manufacturer, SOA comes up with the Tech Tip date Dec02, that tries to explain away the High Frequency noise driving at 65-70mph.

My whine (HF noise) is from anywhere between 45-80mph. And it varies as much as the weather.

I've driven two 2002 obw same options that did not exhibit this problem and I drove a new 2003 obw with same options that did not make the whine.
I've driven with someone in my small town who has the same model as mine.... no whine..

Wish you both good luck with SOA.

I hope this board will be able to broadcast this problem to its members and make them aware that there is a possible defect in the Phase 2 4EAT Transmission. Lets see if this happens?

idahodoug

Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube in my diffs. I think it's 75-90. I am not aware of any issues with friction modifiers, which are normally associated with special gear lube for limited slip differentials. This would be specifically labeled on the product, not something a lube maker routinely put in their products - Amsoil included. Any manufacturer, including Amsoil, has an 800 number on their website for these questions and they're always quick to answer and happy to have someone interested in their product.

IdahoDoug

snizave

Hey, I know I'm doing a townhall no-no by crossposting, but the crown vic board is very slow, and I like the sube guys. Anyway, overdrive is gone in my 92 crown vic. The other gears are still funcioning normally. I was just wondering if anyone knew where i could find some info on the gear ratios cause I'd like to know what RPMs I'm doing if I'm going down the interstate at 70 mph or so. All I could find in the stupid owners manual was that it said shifting from overdrive to drive was safe at any speed. I'm assuming I'll be OK to make an hour trip at 70-75 in 3rd gear, I'll just get bad gas mileage. Thanks for all your help, and I might be in a Subaru a lot sooner than I thought with these transmission issues.

Mike

jlemole

Check www.endwrench.com, current issue, insider tips. There's a note on the transmission whine and its cause.

BTW, I've heard a whine on my 02 OBW from time to time, but it's nearly imperceptible, and not bothersome, at least in my case.

Jon

fibber2

IIRC, 4th gear on the Ford 4AOD tranny is something around a .33 reduction over the 1:1 ratio of 3rd gear. With overdrive you turn around 1700 in 4th, maybe 2500 rpm in 3rd at 60 mph with the V8. So gas mileage will be down, overall engine wear up slightly, but nothing too much to worry about.

Steve

fibber2

that varies with road speed is usually associated with final drive components (differential section, cv joints, wheel bearings) - things that rotate in harmony with the tires. Gear tooth engagement in the diff is a common cause, but I also had pitted races (bearings) in the diff section on a Camry produce the same sound.

Steve

ateixeira

Simple fix - crank up the tunes! ;-)

Keep in mind that in most states, to qualify as a lemon, they'd have to be nearly brand new:

http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_Lemon2.html

-juice

ateixeira

The extra gas will cost less than fixing that tranny, unless of course you plan to own it for several more years.

-juice

njjuliano

Serious question.

Would the whine be a consideration especially when it comes about in speeds that is way excess of the speed limit, at least ? My "whine" starts at 80 and above.

ateixeira

I think if you could reproduce it at 75mph, legal in some states, then yes. Doesn't wind noise drown it out by then anyway?

zeuslewis hangs out on some boards here on Edmunds.com, he testifies in a lot of lemon law cases. You could hire him to check it out and build a case, if it came to that.

-juice

snowbelter

Some time ago I mentioned that there was a clicking sound at times in the transmission of my wife's 00 OB when the 4EAT shifted from 2nd to 3rd. The dealer didn't hear it and told me they had never heard of the problem. Just checked out Endwrench re the "whine" problem and see that Subaru is aware of the "clicking" which occurs "when 2-4 brake is released during upshift". Good to know this is not a symptom of a failing transmission. Would have been helpful if the dealer had been aware of this report by Subaru. There is nothing more frustrating than an otherwise competent Service Manager who doesn't bother to realize that he doesn't know everything and shouldn't treat customer concerns with disdain.

junkher

Although the wind noise is sufficient to drown out most every other sound ( wife and kids :-) It unfortunately is not within the higher frequency range produced by the transmission (reduction gear). In this case, it just ADDS noise to the pot. A VERY annoying noise at that. It has worsened now that the weather has warmed up. The Subaru "www.endwrench.com" states that the noise is only heard on flat straight surfaces at even speeds. This is not completely correct as it gets much more audible under a slight load such as a hill. It also does not stop at ~70 mph it continues on with speed increase.
Anyway.... They state it is "NOT a problem" just as the dealer states!
The problem is I now have 3 whines going on associated with the car.
1). The transmission
2). My wife ( of whom is ready to drive that @$#!*^ off a cliff )
3). AND ME!

I plan to again speak with the dealer and see WHAT can be done.
The car has barely over 20,000 miles on it. The last time I was told to basically quit bothering them since they tried to fix it and are unable.

ateixeira

In that case you may want to look at other ways to abate noise, like extra insulation. Or an XM stereo with a sub. ;-)

My daughter listens to Sesame Street tapes. Someone suggested ear plugs, LOL.

-juice

daniell

I also have the noise between 60-80 mph. I am not sure if it dissapears at 80mph, or the wind noise covers it. Mine is evident on flat roads only, and it changes pitch with throttle.

http://www.endwrench.com/current/Current6/03/InsiderInfo.pdf

The article gives the reason: "noise is generated by the reduction gear teeth in the rear of the transmission", and it also states that there is no reason to worry. While I am going to mention this on my next service appointment (and bring a copy of this article) and witten in the vehicle's maintenance record, I would not lose sleep over it. Just my 2 cents...

jlawton2

well I'm happy that it isn't an indication of something about to go and I guess I should be glad it didn't start til 60k. I hope the new Forester doesn't start doing the same thing since we spend alot of road time at exactly the conditions that produce the noise.

While we're on the subject of transmissions I noticed something while on a recent road trip in the new '03 that has to do with the cruise control.

First instance-
In one instance with the car in cruise I tapped the accelerate control to increase the speed setting and the rpm's shot from 2 to 4.5k and stayed there. When I turned off the cruise while maintaining speed the rpm's backed down to 2 or so. Increasing by foot to the same speed even with harder pedaling didn't result in such a steep climb in rpms.

What is it about the hand control that throws the transmission into such a low gear? And is there an advantage to this that I'd want to use in some circumstance ? (One note I haven't experienced this in any other cars I've had or in our prior Outback . There's always been a little bump in rpms but not to this degree). If this is normall behavior I think I'd increase cruise speed only by pedal and then reset.

Second instance-
While in cruise the car began to accelerate when beginning an incline and continued to accelerate even after reaching the set speed. I let it go on a little to see where it might be going but had to turn if off once I was close to approaching the cars in front of me. It had gotten to 78mph, 10+ mph over the speed I had set. In this instance I had NOT tapped the accelerate switch and this ws not a speed I would have mistakenly set it for,

I didn't start to use cruise until the car had 1,500 miles on it but perhaps this is too soon? I'm a little leery of using it for now as it seems to over-accelerate. Anybody else notice similar behavior?

J

dervish

Does anyone know of a "sweet spot" on the car to aim the keyless remote control? It's quite difficult trying to lock or unlock the car with this device. I took it back to the dealer and they did replace and re-programed the unit but it did not help. They said the Subaru's system is a little "weak" compared to other brands (?)

It's very frustrating trying to open the car when the rain is pouring down and you have a 4-year-old child in your arm.

With my Infinity G20, I can actually operate the remote control from inside a building, two floors up!

jlawton2

This doesn't answer the above question except to say that I don't have any problems with the remote on our new Forester from most useful distances. The remote on the 98 however seems to have become senile even with a battery change and now I just use the door lock. Hopefully the 03 won't poop out as it only has locks on the driver's door.

 I did have an interesting experience with our keyless remote. on the '03-
I activated my remote leaving a restaurant and my guest said "hey you just unlocked the car in front of you!". Sure enough we tried it a couple of times and my remote activated the other cars locks (a big Cadillac, I forget what model exactly, we left it locked back up).

I used to get into interesting situations years ago gettting into the wrong white Toyota Corolla wagon beause there were 3 on my street and my hand key seemed to open them all. Once I got locked out and I just borrowed someone elses Toyota key. So ar a remotes my guess is that there are a limited number of frequencies that result in the remote opening more than one car( ?) but I wouldn't have guessed it would work between models.

J

ateixeira

The sweet spot on my Forester is from directly behind. Regardless of the battery, I get about double the distance from the back than I do from the sides.

-juice

jlemole

The keyless distance on my 02 OBW is about three feet, LOL. It is a pretty weak system, plus you have to wait at least a second or two before you push the button again to unlock all the other doors. But, hey, it still beats the old way of doing it.

Jon

snizave

Thanks for that info Steve. I was thinking that it would probably be OK. And juice, I don't plan on owning it for several more years. I probably would have had it for another couple years if it stayed reliable. It wouldn't be worth fixing, as the car was purchased for only $2000 almost 5 years ago. Only spent around 150 in repairs since then, so it's been good to me. I need it to last until at least august, but January would be even better. I've already started my search for a 90s turbo legacy. I've been driving a big boat for too long, time for a subaru and a manual again.

Mike

ateixeira

You already got you're money's worth, so no worries.

-juice

junkher

I am not actually (concerned) that there is a problem that is detrimental to the vehicle performance. I did look at the article as well and I thank whoever posted it. (I cant remember). I have no doubt that it is NOT a failure waiting to happen. It is just a pain in the butt to listen to it make racket. I think I will suggest to my wife that we get a BIG BIRD SINGS The BLUES CD :-) and crank that up each and every time we have to start up that car. It is sure to lessen the pain of listening to the whine.. :-) Thanks Juice for the suggestion!

dervish

Actually, I wasn't talking about the distance. No matter how close I'm to the car, the remote control just doesn't work most of the time.

jmulholl

My apologies to those on the Crew board who have heard my lament, but I wanted to see if I could get any more feedback. I have a 00 legacy wagon with 60,000mi. There is a noticeable hesitation when going from reverse to drive in the morning. The hesitation has gotten more pronounced, but still happens only with a cold engine.
    Leaving out some intermediate steps, the current situation is that the hesitation remains after a transmission flush. The dealer and the subaru rep claim not to notice the problem and say that there is no warranty claim to make (they inspected the car at 59.000mi.). They are clearly wrong; it is not a subtle characteristic, like (say) a complaint about "soft" shifting.
    I don't think this is right. Moreover, my mechanic and others tell me that the hesitation is a sign of bad things to come. I am going to take my case to Subaru, but was interested if you know of other situations like mine. Thanks.
Joe

gregmisc

You may want to ask the dealer about your experiences, doesn't sound like the cruise control is working properly to me.
I have not experienced these problems in my 03 Forester and I have used the cruise control from day one. The only time the RPMs jump up is when I tap the control when going up a hill and the tranny needed to downshift just about the same time. I use the accelerate function and it usually stays within 2 to 3 MPH depending on the incline (I live in the mountains).

bluesubie

I used it for 3 years in the OBS and it was great. I'm running Motul in the WRX and I think that 1st and reverse were better with the Amsoil.
Just don't use the Series 2000 in the front (too slippery) and you'll be fine.

For the rear diff, I used a trick that I read on nasioc. Put the ratchet in the drain plug and use your jack. :-) Piece of cake!

-Dennis

lfdal

I'd definitely get the dealer to check the cruise control. Mine works flawlessly in all conditions, never had any kind of surge at all and I use it a lot on the road. Re: going up hill and continuing to accelerate - that's just not working right. Somethings definitely wrong there.
Larry

nygreg

The keyless entry is a little weak on Subarus. I wonder if this is done on purpose. If someone gets a hold of your keys, say at the mall, and goes around testing the parking lot, being "weak" will reduce their chances of finding the car. My sienna will unlock the doors and if you do not open the door within a certain time (30 sec?) it will relock them, my guess is for the same security reason.

AT transmission. Is it possible that some of the AT fluid drains back and when you start the car cold, it takes a second or two for the fluid to recharge the line, thus the time delay? Perhaps there is a drain back valve in the tranny filter that is failing. Maybe changing the filter (very easy) would help. Just a thought.

Cruise - mine works great. Keeps the set speed up and down hills.

Greg

francophile

My keyless entry system once locked the car from inside a house, on the second floor. That's far enough for me :-) It doesn't quite go that far now, but then it's 3 years old and has never had a battery replacement. I have noticed that its range is reduced when there are a lot of metallic objects around, such as in a crowded parking lot. It may also be possible that other signals are blocking or overpowering the remote. However assuming that the problem is being seen at all locations and at all times, and given my own experience, I'd say that remotes that only work from a few feet away and/or not at all sometimes are defective, plain and simple.

Cruise control: I have a manual transmission, so I can't comment directly on the problem described. However my cruise control has worked 99% reliably, the 1% being rare occasions when it does not respond to initial attempts to engage.

rgds,
-wdb

jlawton2

Thanks to all for relating your experiences.

gregmisc- Do you notice how far your rpms shoot up and if they stay in the upper range for very long?

My surge is indeed more noticeable if accelerate is tapped on an incline but also goes into the 4k range on the straightaway. I would expect an initial surge due to a downshift especially on a hill but my concern is that the rpms don't drop back after what I would think would be a sufficient period. I'm going to make an appt to take it in.

Speaking of cruise and manuals, we had that on our Mazda PU and Outback and I've always been curious how you can have cruise and manual together. It feels like up/down shifting but maybe it's just a speed change. Do manuals have some leeway range to shift within a gear ?

J

francophile

Nope, there is only one fixed gear per selection in a manual transmission, and the cruise control just has to make do. I've never used cruise control anywhere except top-gear highway driving.

Regards,
-wdb

ateixeira

For fun, I tried to engage it in 4th gear and it worked. But normally I'm always in 5th.

-juice

toboggan

Thanks for the jack tip for the rear diff., bluesubie. It's going to be in the 90's tomorrow. Think I'll wait a few days for it to cool off a bit before changing the gearbox and rear diff.

MNSteve

eps105

I have a 1 year old '03 Forester XS with security system. When it was new, I had some problems with the security system malfunctioning, causing the power locks not to work and the starter kill to remain engaged even when the car was disarmed. My dealer replaced the security system module and the problem went away for the last year.

Now I have a similar problem that has just started, but with some different symptoms. The problem with the power locks not working has returned (I have to use the key to get in, even though the alarm is beeping twice that it is disarmed.) However, now I am experiencing concurrent to this my key getting stuck in the ignition when I try to turn the car off. I can turn the engine off, but I cannot turn the key past the Accessory position to remove the key. I had to fiddle for several minutes turning the car on and off and opening and closing the doors before the power locks started working again and my key would come out. As soon as the power locks started working, the key came out too, which made me think that there must be some kind of electronic interlock that allows you to turn off the car and remove the key, so I don't think it's a mechanical problem.

I hope this makes sense. My question is, does anyone have any idea what is causing this, or even why an electrical problem would prohibit me from removing my key?

Thanks!
Elliot

kens

The cruise control works only from a certain speed (forgot what it was). With a manual, you'll just be in that gear until the load drags you down below that speed and the cruise shuts off by itself.

Ken

joybell

I just drove my brand new Forester for 10 miles on the highway with the parking brakes on. Dumb..dumb..dumb, my head was in the clouds, I didn't even notice until I heard a loud screeeeching sound, pulled over, and checked out the symbol [(!)] in the manual! (What ever happened to "(P)"? There was also a burnt smell. Everything seems to work fine, but what a way to break in a new engine, new everything! I want to keep it for 10-12 years and wanted the break-in to be perfect. What damage have I done to my new Subie? I feel sick.

lakepop

Joybell........well not the best thing ...BUT...you probably did nothing worse than removing a goodly amount of your brakes. Sadly the heat may also have warped them .This misstep has minimal impact on the engine but really hard on the brakes.
  Take the puppy to the dealer and have them inspect the brakes.......I'll bet they will sent you on your merry way with a caution to NOT do this on a regular basis.
  Hope this helps..........

joybell

Well if it's only the brakes then I certainly feel a lot better. They are drum brakes in the 2.5X. It is the effect on the engine (a pull on it like towing?), the AWD and the differential that I am most worried about. Car runs fine (too quiet!), brakes work, but I will still have the dealer give it a checkup.

ateixeira

We all make mistakes like that. I bet all you have are glazed pads.

I would ask the dealer to inspect them, maybe scuff the pads to re-establish a surface with some friction.

-juice

originalbitman

You would have noticed if you had really set the brake tight... the car would have a noticeable drag to it and the shoes (rear are the emergency brake) would have given off a smell after a few miles. I would maybe have them checked. But not a big worry. My OCD has me feeling your pain.

bit

nygreg

I agree with Bit. You probably didn't have the brakes set tight or would have definitely felt the drag. Drum brakes can take the heat better than discs. I've done this too with no impact (not on the OB).You'll be fine. Have a glass of wine!

Greg

ateixeira

You could test the parking brake on a hill, go to neutral and see if the brake alone will hold it. If so you can probably skip the scuffing.

-juice