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BMW 5-Series Wagon 2004 Redesign

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  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    At Rick Hendrick BMW in Chas. SC.
    They weren't to be driven until tomorrow, but were in the prep area.
    A grey and a blue.
    The car looks pretty good. With the backend and tailights being my least favorite.
    It has a beefier, more muscular and purposeful look.
    I think the car looks more expensive too.
    I liked the interior.
    I still can't get used to the way BMW grains it's leather. It looks almost fake.
  • My dealer got a mystic blue and titanium gray 530 in on Tuesday. I like the design of both the E39 and the E60, for different reasons. It's not an either/or with me. The E39 has a classic, understated look that ages well. The E60 jumps ahead to a higher tech look that I found very appealing in person. It's a 21st century design in essence as well as just chronology, and the E39 is now firmly planted in the last century, for my money. I thought the mystic blue with beige interior was really a gorgeous car.

    The interior seems a little roomier, but not overwhelmingly so -- just enough to take away a slightly cramped feeling I always got from the E39. I noticed it especially in the back seat. I sat in an E39 just to check the difference.

    The blue one had the sport package and stickered at $52,000. The gray one did not have the sport package, but also stickered at $52,000 for other reasons.

    I'm going back for a test drive in a few days. The catalog for this car, if you don't have one yet, is quite amazing -- 90 pages!
  • I think it was slightly over $52k with sport package. Though I was curious on the active steering, am not looking to buy now or I would have paid more attention. Probably adaptive lights & I-drive with the screen has added to cost.With this car, BMW has made a dramatic change and has kept the 5 series generations distinct from one another ( I applaud this), but less so from current competition as many comments here have suggested it looks like everything from a Camry to a Pontiac. Seems like a really good car; it looks like a BMW, drives like a BMW and is pricey like a BMW. There will be first time buyers for this car and also some customers leaving the stable, or maybe just waiting a few years.
  • The MSRP on the Mystic Blue/Beige interior I test drove on the 24th was $52,770. That includes Steptronic, Premium, Sport Packages, and Xenon Adaptive lights. The blue really is gorgeous to the eye but over time I think would lose its appeal and the silver tones are still the best. As far as looks, as more of these arrive at dealerships across the country, overall perceptions will change about this vehicle. The exterior is bold, stylish, and provides a breath of fresh air to a quickly aging E39. I do think its crazy not to make available all of the options now such as NAV, but I wouldn't have purchased anyway. Pictures don't do this car justice...you have to go to the dearlership and see for yourself.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    I predict it will be even more popular than the curent car and all the naysayers will finally give in.
    1 of the 2 cars i saw was also in blue and had the same MSRP as the one you saw.
    So they must be sending all the dealerships a blue one and a grey one.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    If this car is deemed to be a financial success, I will admit I was wrong. However, I will never buy it.

    If down the road I decide I can't do without the BMW ride, it will be a 6 (big compromise) or M5 if it somehow comes out tweaked for the better. The 05 3 is also a heartbreak.

    The details of the 6 are horrible but the overall shape is nice. The back looks like some fat ol' rube took his sausage finger and swiped some cream from the birthday cake.

    I believe this is an interim period and BMW will be sorting out styling issues for the next era. Look for Ford, Audi and Nissan to have styling influence on the entire auto market. BMW was never an innovator in this area.
  • Well, I just received my latest report from autospies.com, and the buzz is that the E60 is going to be a home run. Many people think the rear styling is weak, but otherwise, the enthusiasm for this car is big.

    designman - I think you're right that this is a transitional design phase, but the 5-series is going to save BMW and Bangle's legacy if it's as successful as it seems it will be (taking into consideration a likely weak economy for several years). After all, the 5-series is BMW's bread and butter. Basically, BMW was getting a little stodgy (I'm no fan of the 70's-era boxy styling of the E39), and they're now shaking things up to capture the attention of many former Japanese luxury car buyers, who tend to have more avant garde dispositions. Seems like a cool strategy...I hope BMW succeeds, because as we've talking about before, BMW provides the public with unparalleled driver's cars.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    1 of the things I am not wild about is that the 5 and 7 look very similiar.

    They always looked different before. especially from the side.

    It might hurt 7 series sales because now they won't look special enough to justify the price difference.
  • I test drove a 530 yesterday. My impression is basically OK. Acceleration on the 530 seems a bit flat. Overall shape is fine but not heart pumping. Darker colors make the car look bulky but lighter colors work better. Headlight treatment looks nice. Inside is not as elegant as a Mercedes or Jag. Not impressed with active steering as it feels caddy like because there seems to be periods of over assist. Stupid placement of driver side cup holders in that it is over the passengers left leg area. Need big discount before I would buy one.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Ever test driven a '04 Cadillac CTS with Sport Package?
    Feels like a BMW without active steering.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The following is a quote from autospies.com:

    “High rollers are using their corporate BMW contacts to get them cars as we speak...the bad news is BMWUSA is so backed up with orders, even the rollers aren’t getting cars...Even when they’re going right to Purves! And, if you think you’re going to get a good discount on this car for the first six months or so, you’re dreaming...there is a huge waiting list for the car.”

    Now, the following is part of dialogue I had with a salesman at a BMW dealer in the metro NY area this past week when I called to check on the arrival of E60:

    ME: When are you expecting the first shipment after testers?
    SALESMAN: mid-October

    ME: How many will be coming in the first shipment?
    SALESMAN: 20

    ME: Have they all been pre-sold?
    SALESMAN: No, there are four available.

    ME: You mean to tell me I can have the 2004 530 in about three weeks?
    SALESMAN: That’s right.

    ______

    Read into it as you’d like, but I can’t help but wonder. Was the availability of the four new 530s an anomaly? Are they not really available... perhaps the salesman is just trying to get a deposit unscrupulously? Or is autospies FOS?

    Finally, if the new 5 is so hot as autospies claim, why is there a dearth of buyer experiences in these BMW threads? Haven’t heard many claiming their intentions to buy one. Has anyone around here ordered one in advance? The buyers around here are probably, for the most part, a segmented group who are pretty savvy and wisely cautious in their spending... not the types to squander money in a must-have frenzy. However, these forums are accessible to the world and this subject is not exactly esoteric.

    I’m scratching my head a bit here.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    but to a new customer base. They're going more to luxury and less to sport. Yeah, they still offer a sport package to hold on to those who value "handling" as the top atribute of a car. Lokk what's happened to Jag. BMW's going to school here. You thing most new Jag owner's have a clue about what an XK-E is? Some E39 owners know what a 2002tii is, but not many E60 owners will.

    I predict that E60 sales will be strong and that "sport pack" sales will go down as a percentage. For me? I really don't know. Where do I turn? Lexus? Pleeeeeze. Jag? I don't think so. Audi? Well, I don't really need 4WD and I'm NOT getting a FWD. Merc? The manual transmission train doesn't stop here very often. Suby or Mitsu rally cars with boy racer treatment? I do like some things here, but I'm 55 and that's just not going to happen.

    OK. Back to reality. Maybe the refresh will happen in '07 instread of '08. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    Re: Basically, BMW was getting a little stodgy (I'm no fan of the 70's-era boxy styling of the E39) Did you mean the E28? I wouldn't call the E39 "boxy"!

    Happy Motoring,

    Jack
  • I think people are blowing out of proportion the lack of availability of the 5 series. You can also get a new one in a few weeks here in the south from the 1st allocation. Furthermore the fives are bread and butter car for BMW and it is expected supply might be tight for a couple of months as people who have been waiting for year or so get their order filled. Anyways I dont know if I would take the first allocations given the electrical problems that these cars are having. Additionally people will be backing out as the navigation, SMG, and headsup display are all delayed but people expected when they first ordered the car. I just wish BMW would give us the cars we used to love. Otherwise there are a lot of awesome cars coming out in the next couple of years from other makes..
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    joatmon... "Where do I turn? Lexus? Pleeeeeze. Jag? I don't think so. Audi? Well, I don't really need 4WD and I'm NOT getting a FWD. Merc? The manual transmission train doesn't stop here very often. Suby or Mitsu rally cars with boy racer treatment?"

    I look at the cars, not the marques. Since I drive cars, not marques. Guess what you get depends on what you want and why you want it. Some people have to have a BMW or MB. Some won't consider a particular marque. I've never understood that thinking. If a particular car meets your needs and price range, does the marque matter?

    I don't normally look for a car by exterior size, either. Many large cars are inefficient with interior and trunk space while many smaller cars are very efficient inside.

    And if you want manual transmission (which I wholly concur with), choices are limited. Take Jaguar. MY04 S-type has limited availability, by special order only. That really leaves only X-type. I'm surprised you aren't more favorable to Audi's high performance line (e.g., S4). Pricey, but they do perform.

    MB and BMW seem to be emphasizing gadgets and/or styling. I wish they would worry more about driving pleasure and reliability.

    Friend of mine swears by his Subaru WRX. For the money, it is an awful lot of fun car. Don't sell it or the Mitsu short. They are sophisticated driving machines that can outperform cars at nearly twice their price.
  • "They're going more to luxury and less to sport. Yeah, they still offer a sport package to hold on to those who value "handling" as the top atribute of a car."

    Actually, BMW has had this marketing tendency for some time. The current 3-series comes available with sport suspension packages, with the exception of the 330ci and M3. A few years ago, BMW lightened up the 3-series steering and later restored most of the original weighting, as I'm sure a BMW fan such as you is well aware.

    There is no doubt that the E60 in non-sport mode is a true sports sedan, and maintains its lead over Lexus, Acura, etc. I don't know how you can equate Bangle's edgy styling with luxury. I don't follow you there. If anything, his styling is a little punk rocker, which I would agree is not where BMW should be aiming. BMW should have evolved instead of mocked its former designs. But styling aside, BMW is only creating more distance from the competition in the mid-sized driver's sedan category.

    "Re: Basically, BMW was getting a little stodgy (I'm no fan of the 70's-era boxy styling of the E39) Did you mean the E28? I wouldn't call the E39 "boxy"!"
    Yes, the E39. It's too big and boxy for my tastes. That's my opinion.

    designman - I don't know whether autospies is FOS. Could be. It's an odd site, but they seem to dish it out to all carmakers, including BMW. Could be that the Bimmer is selling well in more avante garde markets, like Florida and California, and getting snubbed in its traditional northeast base. I have no idea. I suspect that's what will happen, though. It'll keep most of its enthusiast drivers, add some Japanese luxury import drivers, and lose its bastion of people who buy it for prestige and conservative styling (people who would choose between the 5-series against a Mercedes or maybe a Jaguar).
  • As an E39 owner looking to replace that ride, I have eagerly awaited the new E60. Saw some pictures early on, and was not impressed, but decided that I wanted to see it in person before making any decisions. Did that today, and amazingly, the exterior - while still a styling disaster - was not "that bad". It was the interior that REALLY turned me off. For a car that will go out the door for 50K+, the materials were so-so, and there were some incredibly "cheap bits", as well as poorly positioned switches, etc. Driving was very good. Power (530 auto) was ok, but far behind much less expensive cars(e.g. G35, TL, etc). I drove a sport optioned model and the steering is fantastic! BMW trumps everybody in terms of engineering, handling, etc, but their interior/exterior stylists absolutely blew it on the E60. I love BMWs, but doubt that I will buy this one.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I see someone has questioned whether or not autospies.com is to be trusted. Well let me answer that question for any and everyone. They are just that, FOS. If you look back through some of their past stories you'll see a pattern of innacurate information and just plain lying. Please don't read to much into that site, as it is mainly a rubbish thrower.

    I too got a look at the new five today. The BMW dealer here (Bill Jacobs Napeville, IL) has but one on the lot. Kinda loud blue color with beige interior. It's not nearly as bad as the 7-Series, as that kicker of a trunklid is more intergrated on the 5. The interior is very different and forever erases the cockpit look (and probably feel) of previous 5-Series BMWs. Styling is clearly more substantial than before, especially in the rear which is kinda hefty in the hip area. For some reason though I think the car will be a runaway hit.

    M
  • buster6buster6 Posts: 132
    I was able to see (but not drive) the new 5 today. I will say it will take some getting used to. I am a huge fan of the looks on the 02+ 7 series, so I thought the 5 would be a great alternative in the 50k range. All I could think of when I saw the car was Honda Accord. I really hope it drives better than it looks, or there may be a huge rush on MB's E series.

    Just my .02
  • I saw my first 2004 Royal Blue 530i. And though I do like Chris Bangle's work on the Z4 and 7 series, I have to say...I couldn't find an angle from which this car made sense or looked attractive. I think it looks much better in two dimensions and maybe that's where it should have stayed. I'm still holding out hope for the X3
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    There was a long interview with Chris Bangle on CBS Sunday morning.
    One thing I noticed that I don't like on the new is the crease that runs from the top of the door and fender.
    It looks like a gunwale on a boat.
    Interestingly, Bangle spent a lot of time talking about how cars used to look like boats and it wasn't until the 60's that it changed.
    Looks like it is back again.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    riez... I look at the cars, not the marques. Since I drive cars, not marques. Guess what you get depends on what you want and why you want it. Some people have to have a BMW or MB. Some won't consider a particular marque. I've never understood that thinking. If a particular car meets your needs and price range, does the marque matter?

    I didn't make myself clear. I should have said.. "The offerings from X, Y and Z don't appeal to me. It has nothing to do with brand. I just know that most of the cars I ride or drive don't appeal to me. 3s and 5s with sport pack are pretty decent to me. I have a 3 year old and a 6 year old, so I'm going to have a 4 door with decent room. At 55 years of age, the "boy racer" and "cladding laden" type of cars hold no interest to me. The "quite, sterile" cars have little appeal. Wood and "glove soft" leather doesn't make it handle any better. I've heard many complain about the "hard" leather on BMWs. Well, the 86 528e I just sold have hard, thick leather that literally looked like new when 17 years old. Well, the 5 has terrible cupholders they say. OK, you gonna drink or drive? I don't need a 16 function computer, GPS, navigation, DVD, etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum. I want a stout engine, big brakes, manual transmission, bolstered seats and a suspension that hangs onto the road like a 6 month old clings to a pacifier at bed time. Oh, and I don't need that dee-ess-see think that I manually have to turn off every time I jump in the car. Give me a back seat that a normal adult can take a 100 mile trip in without complaining, a trunk that can hold some luggage and I'm good to go. And while they're at it, a little side protection from careless folk's doors would be nice because I drive this car: to work, to play, to the store and all that.

    Now I'll agree that this is the "good old days" of cars. Many fine entries. I just think most go too far to luxury and too little on "driving". Hey, I realize that luxury sells a lot of cars. So make 'em. Just keep a real "sport" model for old guys like me that aren't trying to impress anyone with a nameplate, whose rear end doesn't care about "soft" leather as they search for the apex, and aren't drinking capa what ever as they savor every switchback on a jaunt in the mountains.

    /rant

    Long live sport sedans,

    Jack
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    joatmon... I'll take sport over luxury any day. Wish car designers and engineers spent more time thinking about things that are really important to the driving experience--e.g., how a driver's back feels after driving 6 hours--than just cramming more unnecessary gadgets into a car (e.g., rain-sensing windshield wipers). Decline of LSD in cars, including (all too unfortunately) BMWs, speaks volumes about what they think about the driving enthusiast's needs. And if so many of those gadgets were optional, buyers could save some money and likely have a more reliable car in the long run.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Riez, have you checked out the WRX STi?
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    designman... Yes, I have looked at the "hot" Subarus and Mitsus. Can't say I like their styling but do love their performance. My neighbor has a WRX and swears by it. He races it weekly at the local track and kicks a lot of rear. I'm a fan of naturally aspirated engines. Much prefer I6 to I4. Not a big fan of small motors that have to be revved to very high RPMs in order to get good performance. My compromise was IS300 sedan manual. A lot of fun with some luxury, plus great warranty and service.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If you think the STi is too flashy, remember you could swap trunks with a standard WRX owner. You'd only have the hood scoop to tell you apart, and the rims. Get silver rims and only enthusiasts would know it was an STi.

    You want a real sleeper? The Forester XT has the same semi-closed deck block and forged pistions, de-tuned to 210hp, but on the dyno they are producing more HP than the WRX (227), so I'd say it's closer to 240, at least. Torque is strong, too.

    The XT and the upcoming Vue Redline might even compete with the X3, at least for some shoppers.

    -juice
  • BMW sent us dealers a terrible blue demo to show our clients..........many of you are seeing it and getting some bad impressions. The gray looks great and you can only imagine what the perfect color, black or silver. But, don't be so picky. This is the ongoing segment leader and the gap just widened.
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    Yesterday. It was the silver 530 without the SP. I didn't get a chance to drive it though.

    My thoughts: From a driver's point of view, the seating felt very nice. The steering position and pedal positions were very comfortable for me. The automatic shifter felt fine, though I'd like to see a manual and get a chance to drive it with the SP.

    The center console is interesting with 3 areas for storage, though my cell phone will go in there perfectly. Side storage seems adequate for my needs.

    The dash - I miss the cockpit feel of the previous generation 5 (and current 3). But I love the Z4's dash, and can see the similarity in theme, and have no major complaints. I just felt more snug with the older dash layout.

    I like the dial controls for the climate controls.

    The iDrive - I want to play with it more to see what it can do and how intuitive it is. Will it be voice activated at some point? If so, great. But I think I'll end up putting my spare glasses on the ledge in front of it. 8)

    The back seat - WAY comfortable for me. I'm 5'11" with long legs and I was able to sit back there easily with the front seat all the way back and not bump the seat. Yes, getting my feet out was interesting, but once in, no problem. They feel very supportive and comfortable. The center console for the rear has cupholders and I like the vents in the rear of the center console for the back passengers. The door handles inside would look nicer if they were covered in the same wood trim material as the rest of the dash was (this one had the poplar wood trim). Head room was more than enough for me with about 3" above my head while sitting in the back seat.

    Truck space looked very spacious and looks like it could hold quite a bit. The tool kit also contained a first aid kit. Is this now standard on US spec 5's?

    The wheels - okay BMW. We need some more options besides what you started with here.

    Overall styling - the sides look a little big, but the car has a very agressive, hunkered down look that really appeals to me. From head on, this car has a sinister look about it. Guess that is why people are calling the lights devil eyes. :)

    The back end didn't look bad to me, but it didn't really stand out either. I can think of several cars that have similar tails, but to me it was just clean, but nothing spectacular. Nothing to really make me wretch or knock me off my feet.

    Now to test the SP and the active steering and roll stabilization.

    Just my .02 worth. Just keep in mind, styling is very subjective. How would you guys rate the 5 styling to the Lincoln LS?

    -Paul
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The LS loses points for being perhaps too conservative, but still, I wouldn't call it ugly, and the 5 is (to my eyes).

    -juice
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    I've shown the new 2004 5-series to dozens of clients now and the response is overwhelmingly positive. A few people have commented that a body side molding seems to be missing. In a way, I agree. It will be more susceptible to door dings but I think that it would detract from the tall appearance of the doors. We have a plan to offer door ding removal for clients that feel like that is a serious issue. The car looks strong and fast, very fast and powerful. We were tired of the old style and love the new look. Kudos to bangle..........BMW remains the segment leader and just widened the gap.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    So, the MSRP, similarly configured as a base TL:

    ES330 = $34,980
    G35 = $34,095
    TL = $33,195

    TL will be at $33,000 for a while, while the ES330 and the G35 can be had for about $32,000. Whatever your choice, I feel that all of these are fantastic deals. Just four or five years ago, you had to pay $50,000 to get a car with the features and performance of these cars.

    For some cars, such as the 2004 530i, I guess you still pay $50,000. Configuring the 530i as close as possible to a base TL, the MSRP is $50,220. To be fair, the 530i has more standard features and a better combination of sport and luxury (good quality interior with RWD) than the TL, G35 or ES330, but I just don't think it's worth the extra $17,000.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Erickpl, glad you raised the question about the styling of the new 5 in comparison to the Lincoln LS.

    I believe the LS clearly influenced the ugly concave details on the beltline and bonnet of the new 5. The LS is not as egregious because they didn’t exaggerate it. Where E60 fails is not only the unappealing proportions and details, but the fact that the details scream for attention.

    Good design, WHETHER CONSERVATIVE OR EXTREME, must have a balance of details. They can work in unison, harmony or contrast, but no one aspect should upstage the total look.

    The details of E60 do not serve the total look. They are bold and work independently of each other, like a package of random unassembled parts.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    guys.......come on. Let's not compare the new 5 to a lincoln, a ford product. There is no comparison in any logical sense.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If clients are coming in, they've probably already seen it and are among those that like it, and are shopping (obviously). So those aren't really a representative sample.

    The eye lashes are far too "Dame Edna" for me, Autoweek went as far as posting a "Seperated at Birth?" photo of the two side-by-side in their BWTM section (FWIW I called it first, right here in this topic).

    I don't find it particularly flattering to be compared to a transvestite in the top weekly enthusiast publication.

    -juice
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Fact is, BMWs have resembled Fords in many ways with regard to style. E39 has early Taurus cues. And while we're on the subject of BMW's follower role in this area, their signature grille came from Pontiac long ago. It isn't the other way around. BMW could learn a few lessons from Ford. And the first is to start analyzing why Taurus was the biggest cash cow in automotive history.
  • karmikankarmikan Posts: 116
    Wow, nicely said in your earlier post!

    I think that you've encapsulated a "feeling" many people, including myself have had regarding the E60 design. The eye doesn't take in the car as a whole but tends to pick out specific details or apparent discontinuities.

    I've just tested this with an E class MB and my eye took in the overall shape first then started to examine the details. With the E60 exactly the reverse is true. Very interesting.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    BMW gets styling cues from Pontiac and Ford? The kidney grill came about in the 20's. In fact BMW notifies Pontiac each year that their design is being closely monitored and the kidney style grill is a BMW patent protected trademark. The style of the new 5 is supposed to be cutting edge and the people who BUY them don't want everybody liking them. They want that exclusivity that you don't find in a Taurus. A taurus.....come on. The new 5 looks more powerful, tall and fast. The headlights in themselves are a work of art.
  • The 1939-1940 BMW 328 had the kidney grille in a pretty close interpretation to what it is today. You would suggest that Pontiac had their corporate nose trade marked at the same time?

    It is fine not to like a certain design language, it is something else to use false information for the arguments' sake. Jeez.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    bmwseller, and ergozoom... the “kidney” grille appears in the 30s. BMWs first car the 1928 Dixi 3/15 PS did not have it. Neither did the 1932 BMW AM4. However, the 1932 Pontiac 302 did indeed have it. And a year after that we see it for the first time on the BMW 303. Curiously, not only is the grille almost a dead ringer but the similar, successive designation numbers seem to be an admission on BMW’s part. Who gets the jump on patents, trademarks and copyrights first is one thing. The truth of matters is another. BTW, ergozoom, I believe the 328 came out in 1936.

    I forgive both of you for your self-righteousness.
  • mch2mch2 Posts: 36
    bmwseller, why blue indeed. I agree with you that blue is horrible, a very dull color that does absolutely nothing for the car.

    I saw the 2004 530i in person for the first time this past saturday. I flat out do not like the exterior, not so much because it is ugly but because I found it bland and not very distinctive. From the side it looked like a Camry or an Altima. Nothing about the way the car looked moved me and for 50k I want to be moved. I want to walk out of my house everyday and say "man, what a nice car" something I do everyday when I see my 2003 530i.

    As too whether or not the car will be successful my guess would be that it probably will be. There were several people at the dealership who seemed genuinely excited about the car and were impressed with the new styling.
  • jtulljtull Posts: 4
    I did some research on 03 530i vs. 04 530i and 03 540i vs. 04 545i. Interesting results. 03 530i w/ auto,sport,xenon,premium,cold weather...$48,770. 04 530i same equipment...$53,500. $4730 increase!!! 03 540i w/auto,sort,cold weather...$57,195. Plus GAS GUZZLER TAX (rip off) $1300. Total $58,495. 04 545i same equipment...$59,045. Only a $550 increase, and you go from 292hp to 325hp. Much better value. Dealer also gave me a $1500 discount. I,m expecting mine Mid-November.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    I was wrong and have been corrected. True enough the first kidney grille did appear on the stunning 303 model in the 30's as stated by DESIGNMAN. Your forgiveness is appreciated. Fortunately, the new 5 does evoke some passion in it's appearance. I don't like the wheels on the sport package.... too plain.
  • Very interesting price comparison from year to year price increase. If you would be so kind to clarify--did the dealer give you a discount of $1500 off the MSRP of $54,045, or was that figure what you actually paid? Also, did he offer any discount off the 530i's MSRP? If not, why not? It appears that you ordered your car specifically. If that was not the case, is your having to wait until mid-November because the 545i will not be in the showrooms until then. Congrats---it seems you are getting one heck of an automobile, but what about the difference in the gas mileage?
  • jtulljtull Posts: 4
    MSRP $59,045. No gas guzzler tax. $1500 discount. Paid $57,545. With new 6 speed Steptronic, gas mileage is within 1-2 mpg of 530. 6th gear makes big diff with mileage. Had a 2002 corvette w/ 6speed manual and got 28mpg. 530 would have cost me $52,300. Diff was $5245. I ordered it specifically, and expect delivery by mid-Nov.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Nothing is truly original, everything has been done before by someone, but new combinations of cues can be good or bad.

    When I see the new 5's taillights, I see resemblance to the Kia Rio and Toyota Echo. I'm sure Kia and Toyota are flattered, but BMW probably isn't.

    I really think that Volvo, Mercedes, and Audi had styling nailed down pat. BMW is going through a bad phase and once Bangle finally gets fired I'm sure they'll bounce back.

    -juice
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    Our first stock unit just arrived. We ordered the 2004 530i in titanium silver with black leather, premium package, cold weather package and xenon headlights.
    It looks incredible in this much more desireable color combination than the blue with beige and the MSRP is right at 50 even.
    I read in automotive news that the big three auto makers current average residual on a three year old car is 39%. OUCH!!! Like the looks of the car or not, the 'bimmers hold their value and market forces are a great telling sign of the quality of the car. This edgey look is just perfect for BMW. We do want to alienate certain segments of the market. Exclusivity evokes passion nothing like you'll find in a KIA, Toyota, etc....
        Take a real good look at those taillights, the headlights. The bold, powerful tall stance is strong and athletic. KEEP LOOKING!
  • Thank you for being so forgiving :-). The 328 appeared in '38, if the memory serves me right. There is a gorgeous one in the BMW museum in Munich.

    Still, to claim that BMWs are influenced by Pontiacs and the 90s Taurus, hmmm.... it's mildly amusing.
  • karmikankarmikan Posts: 116
    Not buying the "keep looking" suggestion. The Grand Am cladding looked stupid when it was introduced and still does, the Edsel was ugly when it was new and it still is. A good design is a good design and a poor design doesn't improve by just looking at it.

    You mention exclusivity evoking passion. Exclusivity doesn't evoke passion, a great car does. Ergonomic and dynamic brilliance in the E60 won't get a chance to evoke any passion if potential buyers can't get past the disjointed looks.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    This whole E39 vs. E60 thing is very interesting. Will the E60's sales flourish or flounder? Will they retain the old customer base and continue with unparelled loyalty? Will new customers flock to BMW centers and stand in line to buy? I don't have a clue! My personal opinion changes almost daily.

    We can all agree that the E39 is a classic and attacted many loyal driving enthusiasts.

    I recall being here before. Let me explain. I've owned Acura Legends. Had a 91 and put 99k on it. Great highway cruiser for a FWD car. I traded on a 94 Legend. Again, great car. Well, in 97, I started looking. No more Legend. We now have the RL. The RL was bigger and better in every quantifiable way. But, what a dissapointment. Now, don't get me wrong. The RL is a good car. I recommend them often. Especially used ones. Check out their resale. Nothing like the Legend resale. The Legend nailed it. Now it is a FWD car, but other than that, it was spot on. After putting 150k+ on 2 of them, I don't know what I would suggest as an improvement.

    My E39 has that same "right fell" just as my Legends did. The Legends and E39s are so desirable. The RL is not, although it is a good car.

    Will the E60 be in the E39/Legend class in seven years, or will it be another RL?

    Oh, yea, my main point is this: The average Legend buyer and the average RL buyer are different. A little overlap, but very different on the whole. Legend buyers cross shopped E34s and E39s. RL buyers cross shop Lexus LS400/430s.

    Hey, just one guy's view,

    Jack
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    ergozoom... your memory is deceiving you. Among other things, the internet is the world’s biggest history book. The BMW 328's arrival was 1936. Look it up.

    Also, I’m wondering if the luxury-car status factor is limiting your ability to be objective. Consider form vs function and if you can’t separate the two, there’s no use discussing styling with you.

    BMW is a lot of things but fashion leader it is not. I have one because it is the best driving, best engineered sedan wrapped in what I consider to be a conservative Brooks Brothers cloak. I waited a year for the new 5 and like many others was let down because the form has changed radically instead of evolving gracefully. I wonder what would happen to Brooks if they suddenly tried their hand at trend-setting Italian fashion, then tried to pawn it off as being original.

    As I have said before, if I am wrong in my assessment of BMW’s fashion gambit, I will admit it when that time comes, if it comes. In the meantime, look around you--the BMW cloaks of recent years are far from original.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Karmikan... thanks!

    Joatmon... good introspective post!
This discussion has been closed.