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Acura TSX
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Actually, I think you and Daniel Lund (C&D April 2003 TSX "preview") may be the only people on Earth who think the TSX has "numb" steering:
Car and Driver - "When driven near the limit, the TSX is a very predictable car."
Forbes - "this car has highly communicative steering."
Consumer Guide - "ingot-solid on-road feel."
The Car Connection - "good traction and feedback through the thick-rimmed, leather covered steering wheel."
Don't forget, uncledavid and I are livin' the dream...
blueguy - Perhaps the TSX is floaty, when compared to your 330i ZHP, but it is definitely not a "floaty" car. Here are some contrasting opinions about the "floating" TSX:
Car and Driver - "Midcorner bumps and hillocks upset the car almost not at all."
Consumer Guide - "Body motions tightly but comfortably snubbed over big humps and dips."
Even if you don't believe the experts, you can always trust fed and uncledavid to tell it like it is...
It's the most complete package in its class.
When I was going through a similar debate recently and quoted the Forbes review, you would have thought I quoted a review from Mad Magazine or Stamp Collector Monthly based on the reactions of some people... ;^)
You've made the point several times that you are less than happy with the "choppy" "jiggly" ride of your TSX. Perhaps this is a silly question, but I would be curious to know:
1. Whether you've checked the tire pressure (since dealers are notorious about not checking factory overinflation at delivery time).
2. What pressure is specified on the door jam?
2. What pressure(s) are you running with?
(Foot-pounds x rpm)/5250 = Horsepower
foot-pounds is a metric for torque
Current Owners: What is the RPM at exactly 70 mph with the auto trans?
What kind of mpg are you getting with the auto trans?
I don't have TSX, but based on simple math, @ 70 mph the tach should be around 2300 rpm with auto transmission (about 2000 rpm at 60 mph).
I spent about 45 minutes on the internet yesterday reading road tests from every corner of North America, from Miami to Winnipeg...
Most of these writers are probably not race drivers, and their opinions represent more of a lay-persons view of how the car performs. Still, they drive a lot of cars in many environments on a regular basis, so I'm willing to grant them some credibility.
And yeah, compared to my ZHP, the TSX felt like a Buick. Heck the G35 felt wallowy too compared to the ZHP's suspension. Some at bimmerfest suggest the ZHP's handling approaches that of the vaunted E36 1998 M3 sedan but with a bit better ability to soak up road irregularities.
I'll be frank with you...you worry me.
If your driving style is such that you would regularly exceed the limits of a car as capable as the TSX, you're eventually going to kill either yourself, someone else, or both.
May I recommend the SCCA or BMWCCA as a more appropriate venue to explore your car's limits? I'm a member of both and I think you'll find it rewarding.
I've been driving for 18 years without a problem. I know my limits, that's why I want a car that can match them and offer room to grow.
May I recommend the SCCA or BMWCCA as a more appropriate venue to explore your car's limits? I'm a member of both and I think you'll find it rewarding.
I've never been a big fan of any organization or group. From the Boy Scouts to my Alma Mater's Alumni Association to the ACLU, I tend to avoid anything where people congregate with a common goal, pay dues and adhere to some sort of regimented bylaws. Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll pass for now. If I decide to move to a different BMW, then I'll certainly join BMWCCA one year in advance of my purchase so I can get a discount.
That, in my view, is the only real weakness of the vehicle.
Many companies now have a mechanism built into the keys that recharges them when you have the car on. It's a simple way to avoid the battery problem.
uncledavid - never say never. I deal with locksmiths daily and it can happen. Mechanical items not used nor maintained can stop working properly when called upon.
That's the reason you should use the other fob once every two weeks or so.
Oh and when the fob batteries are dying, I find that touching it to my chin while operating helps compensate for the weak batteries.
Actually, I think you and Daniel Lund (C&D April 2003 TSX "preview") may be the only people on Earth who think the TSX has "numb" steering:
Car and Driver - "When driven near the limit, the TSX is a very predictable car."
Forbes - "this car has highly communicative steering."
..."
I mentioned before perhaps in the "Mazda6 vs TSX" thread that it's the strong centering action that got people confused as some sort of feedback. Automobile also noticed the TSX's "strong centering" but not the "feedback".
For sure the TSX is a "very predictable car" at the limit, not like the G35 BMW-wanna-be that.... Even C&D rather switch the electronic guard back on 'cause they find the G35 fishtailed too abruptly.
BTW, the chin thing works, though you look sorta silly doing it.
creakid: For sure the TSX is a "very predictable car" at the limit, not like the G35 BMW-wanna-be that.... Even C&D rather switch the electronic guard back on 'cause they find the G35 fishtailed too abruptly.
Maybe old C&D should take a closer look at how dependent they are on stability control. RWD cars with lots of torque should fishtail.
"More oversteer than you'll recall since testing your brother's Mustang in the rain. It's not the simplest thing to catch, either, because the G35's steering--otherwise light, crisp, agreeable--is an iota oversensitive just off center, adding its own wobble at the critical instant you're attempting to restore navigation. Each editor sampled his own Rotational Moment, then reengaged the traction control and NEVER touched it again."
Gosh , since I have homelink , I don't have to replace my garage door openers every 2 years or so. That save me a lot of time
Now what I don't understand is why my backdoor lock runs on batteries when it could just as easily run on rechargeable batteries as backup and run on house current. Anyway after the batteries alsmost wnet out I made sure a spare house key was avaialble.
Having to manually use the key is a stretch. Most key locks have a little dust plate. Locks just don't fail that often.
I wonder if the FOB battery can recharge a poster's brain ;?
The 2004 TL will have 6-speed and 280 hp. Maybe that is why the TSX is only 200 hp.
Natural progression of 6- speeds: TSX -> Accord Coupe -> TL
Actually, it might be easier to understeer in mid/rear-engined cars like NSX, Modena and Carerra.
Supposedly, upgrading with lighter aftermarket wheels and summer performance tires can reduce the unsprung weight at each corner by about 15 lbs.
So, for less than $1,500, TSX owners can improve skidpad grip by a few g's and shed at least 1/2 second off a 0-60 sprint.
Does anyone know if there are any negative side effects with this "upgrade?"
No wonder the Euro Accord usually got 15"s & 16"s. Their suspension got bigger sway bars to compensate for softer springs. So the overall lateral sway should be pretty equal to our TSX. In other words, 16" w/ summer tires should be low-profile enough to match to our TSX's suspension tuning, too. I've always suspected Acura needed the looks of the 17" just to impress & look sporty enough compare to a Mazda6. Good for those of you who are into plus-1 mods - Acura already did it for you, all you need are the tires, so not much $.
Looking forward to meeting everyone!
KarenS
Host
Owners Clubs
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/04tsx_auto.htm
This is a pretty decent Canadian site for auto info although I suppose a little conversion work is going to be required for you guys south of the border. Your bucks quite a bit stonger, and we're doing metric up here. Hope it's of some help or interest.
"Again, I don't get what the problem is. They'd experience far more oversteer in a 360 Modena, F50, Viper or Porsche GT3/GT Coupe. If twitchiness scares them, maybe they should stick to naming bland cars like Camries and Accords as 'Best Buys.'"
They like oversteer & doing it right at the limit. Point is, it has to be predictable enough, massive or not. Today I received my CR &...
"Its handling is agile, but when pressed to its limits we found the car can get trickier than the others here, EVEN with stability control...The steering is responsive but DOESN'T provide as much feedback as we'd like, When pushed hard in a corner, lifting off the gas encourages the tail to slide out - an effect that the standard stability-control system works hard to control. The G35's speed in the avoidance maneuver was high, but it wasn't as predictable as the other cars here."
You see, even lifting off, not applying power. This car's sloppy steering & "on-off switch-like" oversteer only shows its faulty design! By the way, the car they're testing doesn't got sport package - a rare G35 example for a road test.
Some other powerful RWD cars are predictable, at least w/ stability. A FWD GTI or Focus SVT can handle predictably even w/o stability.
From my experience with a TSX manual, this just isn't true. Undulations in the road at 80+ cause the TSX to feel extremely floaty. On corners the front dips drastically at hyper-legal speeds. Add in a rolling hill and the backend of the TSX will LITERALLY lift up, unloading the suspension and shifting the center of gravity far more forward."
"'A few weeks ago, I was driving down the I-405 at a higher than safe speed and I hit a big dip in the road. For a second, the car felt light it was airborne. Is that what is meant by "floaty".'
That's sort of what I mean. It comes down to feeling like the suspension has unloaded so that the body is going up, the wheels and tires down and there's very little stable control of the vehicle."
"Car and Driver - 'Midcorner bumps and hillocks upset the car almost not at all.'
Consumer Guide - 'Body motions tightly but comfortably snubbed over big humps and dips.'"
So what's going on here? Here what I figured out:
None of the descriptions above mentioned anything about the travel being used up, so capacity-wise these springs/shocks are not being overwhelmed - only having the car bouncing UPWARD. This is a sign of too low of rebound/compression ratio in the shock setting. What Acura needs is to recalibrate the rear shocks w/ increasing rebound setting.
When my '90 Protege LX had the similar off-balance setting, the car always spring upwards at least as high as the bump(it was mainly the front, by the way). All I needed was putting on some American shocks such as Gabriel - eventhough it's SOFTER in compression, it's got more rebound firmness - & it took care of this shooting-up-happy characteristic.
I heard auto is much slower than manual, is that true?
Most of the reviews I've seen tested the standard. I did read somewhere that the automatic got better gas mileage then the standard because it was so efficient. This jumped out at me because I've never heard of that before. I'm sorry I can't remember where I saw that. Perhaps somebody else out there knows where that came from.
No big deal, the auto just got taller gears to sacrifice the acceleration even more so the fuel economy is higher than the manual, especially w/ EPA's high-rpm manual shifting technique.
Look at the gearing used for the GSR about 20 miles per hour per 1000 rpm ;very low The TSX is still low at 22-23 miles per hour per thousand RPM.
Anyway, just Honda's philosophy of highway gearing
Auto should be slower than manual, usually about 1 second (0-60). I have seen only one road test of TSX with the automatic and to my surprise (CanadianDriver) posted 0-100 km/h (0-62 mph) acceleration of only 7.3s. I expected 0-60 run of 8.0s and 0-62 run of about 8.5s with automatic.
As far as mileage goes, TSX manual is geared for performance and greater torque multiplication (meaning more revs and more horsepower) compared to the auto. So, the auto can be expected to return better mileage. C&D road test mentions them getting 24 mpg with the 6-speed.
How can one get the RPM of a certain vehicle according to a specific speed?
- Mark
Speed = engine speed * wheel diameter / (336 * overall drive ratio)
Wheel diameter is measured in inch, and overall drive ratio is multiplication of gear ratio and the axle ratio. Let us use an example (TSX, 6-speed manual).
Wheel Size is P215/50/R17 (equates to 25.46 inch wheel diameter)
Overall Drive Ratio is 15.35:1 in first gear.
At redline (7100 rpm) the speed in first gear will be,
Speed = 7100 * 25.46 / (336 * 15.35) = 35 mph.
Now, to get rpm at a given speed, we need to rearrange the formula:
Engine Speed = Speed * 336 * Overall Drive Ratio / Wheel Diameter
Now, to get engine speed at 70 mph in sixth gear, all you need is the overall drive ratio in the sixth gear (multiply sixth gear ratio by the axle ratio).
Hi Robert, Yeah, I posted a link to this site earlier
.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/04tsx_auto.htm
But I don't think they did their own acceleration tests. The reviewer gets his information from Acura, and it's also a little unclear as to wether that figure is for the automatic or the standard.
"The TSX's 2.4 litre twin cam 16 valve i-VTEC four cylinder engine generates 200 horsepower at 6800 rpm and 166 lb-ft of torque at 4500 rpm. I found it uncommonly smooth and powerful for a four cylinder engine. Acura quotes a 0 to 100 km/h time of 7.3 seconds, a quicker time than all of its four, five and six cylinder competitors. I found mid range acceleration to be brisk and highway cruising smooth and effortless. At freeway speeds, the 2.4 litre four cylinder engine does just 2100 rpm at 100 km/h in fifth gear, and 2500 rpm at 120 km/h - those are very low figures for a four cylinder engine - and contribute to the engine's smooth, quiet performance on the freeway"
It's a pretty thorough review . His biggest criticism seemed to be with the cars looks. The pictures accompanying the review make the car look pretty sharp however.
I would like to see a more sporty out there style that retains the Acura trademark.
Maybe is just me but this is holding me back. The Max exrerior although big, looks nice (interior suck) The IS 300 looks great (but no Nav available unless willing to waits months)...the new Honda Acord is bigger, cheaper and looks pretty good compared to the boring look of the TSX
My dealer informed me that the TSX is rated for 91 octane (which isn't a choice). The dealer said "regular" gas is fine for the car. Haven't received car yet so can't comment on real world mileage.