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Acura TSX
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TSX, TL, RL... are destined to look similar. It is called family resemblance. That said, have you really seen TSX in person? It looks much more solid, substantial and tight in person than in pictures.
But then, you appear to like the new Maxima, something I find bulbous and ballon like (saw one on the road today).
I have the TSX in Meteor Silver - which is really a metallic kind of light blue. People come up to me and complement the car whereever I go.
That said, I doesn't have the styling of the Audi A4. I think the A4 is the nicest looking vehicle in it's class.
There haven't been a lot of reports of problems by TSX drivers yet, but it is still a little early for that.
regards,
kyfdx
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TSX Owners:
Does the TSX use the same oil and air filters that the Honda Accord I4 uses?
i was to take delivery of an accord ex v6 last saturday but some moron damaged the paint when buffing the car and it needed to go to the body shop for repair. i did not want this car at the point (my salesman knew me well enough that he called me and told me not to bother coming down). it'll be late june until they can get another car in the color i want. i'm able to get the accord at invoice.
i may consider the tsx and spend a little more if this car can be had at invoice.
By the way...I am not crazy about the Maxima 04 outside or specially inside. Its looks cheap. The front grill is cheap plastic.
I am torn b/w TSX, G35, IS300 and Accord as a fall back (now thats a blnad car...the Accord - but cheap. maybe I go nuts and jump to the BMW 3 but I dont think I can fit 3 kids in the bak (no car seats all older than 7 yrs) G35 is the most comfy so I have it ranked # 1 for now in my list ( abit concern about the cheap looking dash board...maybe a wood accent can improve it- need to see one in peroson.
I did drive and see all models including the TSX with NAV and tested it. Its awesome!
BTW, I've transported 5 adults (1 to 2 males and either 3 to 4 females) repeatedly in my 3 series and it was not a problem. The TSX certainly doesn't offer that much (if any more) room.
Go for the car that makes you happiest...
You can't hear it. It adjusts early enough all you'll feel is sluggishness, very much like when hauling heavy stuff.
It certain is inefficient doing so 'cause the compression is still high, but the spark isn't ignited until later when the piston falls down. This is not that Saab experimental variable-compression engine.
But then if the refineries charge too much more for premium, then...
Forget the TSX for 3 in the back, it's no American Accord, not even Mazda6.
I did a thorough comparison:
creakid1 "Acura TSX vs. Mazda6" May 27, 2003 2:29am
Well...I refuse to get a sucky car b/c I need more space (althoug I did say that I would consider the accord). So the kids may have to pack up. The problem is during winter when they bundle up with coats. And when thay have a friend for a total of 4...they may have to deal.
I come from a fam of 3 big brothers and my mom had a Nissan Stanza....pretty small, we managed!
So I am still checking things out. In the meantime I will enjoy the nice torque on the Max 03.
You know what "stanza" stand for? Room!
It was, indeed, the roomiest family car from Japan w/ it's "revolutionary" FWD layout.
But soon in '83, the Camry out-stanza the Stanza.
The RWD 3-series w/ power seats will not fit 3 pairs of shoes tucking under the front seats. So, even w/o power seats, I'm not sure who does worse in the back for 3. Maybe the Beemer got less room & the TSX got more discomfort due to the awkward shape. The TSX for sure got more headroom, but then the possibly-lower cushion height also makes you feel buried down under the high belt line to see out.
For 3 in the back, the Mazda6 works & it's designed AND shaped for this! Although the Accord might be wider. Sounds like the Accord EX V6 fits you, as it handles quite sporty already(by TSX standard) while retaining the refinement not found in the Mazda6. Maybe some interior trim remodeling will solve the spartan feeling? The ugly exterior...
Um, 4 kids in the back? Which kid gets to ride without a belt and pose a threat to everybody else in the car? Unbuckled backseats passengers are one of the leading causes of injury to buckled up front seat passengers - they become human missiles!
I come from a fam of 3 big brothers and my mom had a Nissan Stanza....pretty small, we managed
I owned a Nissan Stanza for 7 years. Great engine (torquey 2.4 with the manual) and bulletproof car. Not huge in back but not too small either. I'd say my 3 series backseat isn't that much smaller than the Stanza's.
If you've got a Maxima (unless it's pre-99) you're used to quite a bit of backseat space. you're not gonna find that in the TSX, 3, G or Accord. I'd say stick with the max if you have one already - great, responsive, roomy cars.
blueguydotcom, you need some update. The FWD Accord has been shamefully cramped in the back up to '97, then things have changed - the roomy Camry no longer stood out. I even found the new Accord too roomy in the back almost like an S-class.
I still remember how humongous the '85 Jetta was inside compared to the '85 Accord, & that was not counting the trunk space.
I don't need an update. I drove both the Accord 03 coupe (AT and MT) and 03 sedan. The backseat was exceptionally low (floor to cushion) and therefore made the back of the car totally uncomfortable for me. The Maxima has consistently sported a taller backseat, thus it doesn't result in the knees by the ears syndrome common in most Hondas. If my knees are bent at anything over 90 degrees (taking 0 to be a straight leg), then I believe the car's backseat to be inhospitable. Other people don't mind having their legs cocked up and bent radically in a car.
Luckily no kids here so any backseat occupants just have to deal with it.
Does the TSX have any vents for the rear passengers?
I remember shopping w/ my friend for a new car back at the end of '93. We ended up getting a '93 ultra-loaded(w/ traction control, Nakamichi, etc) GS300 'cause the LS400 wasn't designed for long legs in the back, not even for me. I believe the '95 LS400 did improve.
Well, the people who allegedly specialize in such things, Consumer Reports, rated the Accord's rear seat comfort above average, which is the same rating as the Camry, Altima, Passat and Mazda 6. No complaints about it being too low. The seats were described as well shaped and comfortable.
No complaints about the seat being too low in Consumer Guide either.
And finally, no complaints from the passengers in the rear of my 2003 Accord... quite the opposite, actually.
Neither mag has tested the TSX yet, so we don't know how well it fairs in seating comfort in their eyes. To me, it definitely feels smaller than the Accord, but I found the seats to be comfortable.
I like CR for empirical data, but beyond that their reviews of cars are way out in left field. They complained about oversteer in a G35! It's a RWD sport sedan. It should have oversteer. Lots of it. What's next, complaining that a viper's got a throaty exhaust or that a TSX has a high-revving engine?!
A WRX may be a great load of fun for 22k but I couldn't live with it no matter how low the price. Likewise, some magazines may rank the Camry as a top ten or best buy or whatever weird award but in the end are you happy driving it? I'd rather walk than drive one of those Buick-clone Camrys daily. Heck, some mags have blasted the TSX on styling, others like it and still more don't really dwell on the shell.
BTW, in my eyes the TSX has a pleasing shape that needs more character.
Agreed, but the point is NOT that any of these mags should supercede your own insights on anything for you.
My point is that in my experience, the back seat of the 2003 Accord is quite comfortable. My passengers agree. And Consumer Reports has the same position, in a facet of testing that they stress highly and seem to be quite expert in, which is comfort.
Their viewpoint isn't going to change your assessment of the comfort of the Accord's rear seat. I wouldn't expect it to, and that's not why I cited it. But their viewpoint reflects what most people will likely find, IMO, and also reflects what I have found myself.
BTW, I remember CR complementing a sports car for a throaty exhaust note, so they're not completely out of touch in that area...
Jesus, if the TSX got no head room, then who does? I know - the Subaru Forester - a low-seat Impreza w/ high roof disguising as a truck.
"...but surprisingly good leg and toe space even with front seats fully aft..."
If they're talking about the TSX got good knee room, I can understand, as even the cramped old Accords all got it. But leg room? CG's memory is ajar. They must have gotten the datas mixed up - leg room vs head room!
Unless it's something like a poorly-engineered Korean car or old Neon, why wouldn't a FWD sedan got toe space for 3 pairs?
"...Short seat cushion shy on leg support."
I noticed the length of TSX's rear seat cushion was extended for the 2 passenger locations, almost like an after thought. Well, too bad, especially for blueguydotcom's physique, the cushion-height is low & the thigh angle isn't tilted upward for support like how it looks in the brochure's misleading picture!
The reason may be that you tried the Accord Coupe, which may have a different seating position in the rear compared to the sedan. Between 98 Accord (sedan) and 98 Maxima, I felt the exact opposite of what you said. The Maxima rear seat was too low and uncomfortable. In fact, I have found the Accord back seat to be one of the best (position and room), unless that has changed for 2003, the new Accord should be along the same lines.
It's a RWD sport sedan. It should have oversteer. Lots of it.
That is not right. Most RWD cars are designed to understeer under most circumstances. Whether a car under/over-steers also depends on its suspension setup. Some European track tests I have read on BMW 3-series have mentioned understeer and difficulty in bring the rear around when needed. From my experience, Mustangs have inherent understeer as well.
The difference between G35 and 330 could be that 330 could be put into oversteer by the driver while G35 would do it on its own. A long time ago I was reading a road test of Toyota Avalon, and one of the cons was the cars ability to understeer a little too much followed by snap oversteer. I can see that aspect as unsettling.
If they're talking about the TSX got good knee room, I can understand, as even the cramped old Accords all got it.
Actually, TSX is the same size as old Accords, although Honda claims that the new Euro/Japanese Accord is slightly roomier than the last generation which was identical to 94-97 Accord. The problem: we have gotten used to a bigger (American) Accord.
Their issue is that the car initially understeers and then fairly dramatically shifts to oversteer on throttle lift. The same complaint has been leveled to some extent on the 350Z which uses the same chassis. Too much understeer initially with a fairly abrupt transition on throttle lift.
It may be manageable for most drivers and CR maybe over-prioritizing it in the interest of being conservative, but it certainly isn't something inherent in a RWD chassis nor desirable. Fro example, your 330i doesn't have it - if you throttle lift at the limit, the car will continue to understeer.
And it's not like CR said that the G35 problem was a deal-breaker or made the car unacceptable. In fact, it rated 4th out of 15 cars as a good choice for a driver whose main emphasis is a sporty sedan.
- Mark
The TSX does have more leg room to stretch out than the pre-'98 Accords, eventhough that was years ago I tried them. There was enough difference that I remember 'cause they were significantly worse than Civic. Now the TSX is on par w/ the Civic in stretch-out leg room
The '95-98 Maxima has the worse thigh angle tilt, both front & rear. So Nissan did a beautiful modification on the following generation.
It's possible that blueguydotcom got a bad 1st impression from the coupe & failed to observe closely on the sedan by adjusting the front seat accordingly. The '00 Maxima does have a lower buttock point, but the thigh support is angled up sharply. So an ultra-long thigh will continue going up by the knee point, & thus hanging miles high w/ rest of the leg trailing down a long way to the floor.
No, re-read the very quote you posted! I tested that Accord sedan too.
That is not right. Most RWD cars are designed to understeer under most circumstances.
They're engineered to do that to save drivers from hurting themselves. A high powered, high torque RWD car naturally oversteers. You must engineer in understeer so that drivers used to FWD cars won't hurt themselves. Drive a Vette from the 60s and you'll understand what real oversteer feels like. It makes the drive far more hair raising. And fun.
The difference between G35 and 330 could be that 330 could be put into oversteer by the driver while G35 would do it on its own.
If I turn off my BMW's DSC (turn it off as in hold it down for 10 seconds, not disable it so it's there as a parachute) I can get the back of my 330 to whip around with some throttle and the tach over 4k on any corner. The G35's FM platform is just less forgiving than BMW's. If Infiniti took off the VDC most enthusiasts agree the G would be an insane barrel of fun on the twists. CR's testers are not enthusiasts in any measure. They believe all cars should be predictable, quiet, roomy, economical and safe. Imagine how poorly they'd rate the Elise!!!
Mark: Fro example, your 330i doesn't have it - if you throttle lift at the limit, the car will continue to understeer.
Actually, I can get massive oversteer by turning off the VDC and jumping on the gas in a corner. But I have a different suspension setup than a standard 330i.
http://h.wieck.com//pv/2003/03/05/HON2003030565489_pv.jpg
A quick search found the above image. However, I can't see any vents on the backside of the center console.
The old 911's were notorious for this and Porsche has spent millions of development dollars slowing taming the problem. So it is neither inherent in the RWD platform nor desirable.
- Mark
I totally disagree. Most Porsche junkies (not the banal yuppies driving 911s, Boxsters and BMWs) lament that the soul of Porsche is gone. The 911 no longer requires constant attention and care when playing around. Now it's simply another go-fast car with limited personality. VDC, DSC, Tiptronic, Steptronic, etc, etc have removed the elements of skill and experience from driving performance cars. There once was an element of fear and darwinism related to buying performance cars. Not so any longer. Any tool can get into a porsche and rocket around a corner because the car won't bite back.
I don't recall any rear vents in the TSX from my 15 minutes back there.
The leg room is OK for short trips, but for tall passengers and/or longer trips, it feels cramped. The Accord on the other hand has plenty of leg room. I was able to push the driver's seat all the way back and there was still plenty of leg room in the back seat.
The front end of the TSX looks great, even better than the TL cause the headlights aren't so big. The back is a bit plain and from a distance, it's easy to mistake the car for a Civic.
The Maxima is plain ugly. That front end makes it look like a Pontiac. The backlights need to be redone. And that ceiling window is stupid. Put a normal moonroof instead.
Maybe some of you have already experienced this in a car w/ a top you can't see thru. Especially when your hot date is telling you what so neat-looking to her right above the car or simply inquiring about it, you don't want to look stupid. This Maxima roof solves the problem no matter which seat you're in.
The rest of this car is indeed stupid as if purposely sending the message that this is maximum-radically styled - the tail light contours are mis-alignedly shaped, the center console is awkwardly proportioned, & the new trend of part of the rear glass above the rear door as found in the Saturn Ion sedan.
Bluedot, sorry, but I think you're just lumping the G35 throttle lift oversteer problem into the general "most cars are dumbed down with too much understeer" problem. They're not the same issue at all.
- Mark
Lets agree to disagree and move on.