Acura TSX

robertsmx

Price negotiations at dealership is going to depend on demand versus supply. Right now, some places may be more difficult than others. I'm hoping that things settle down when I'm ready, probably in a year or two.

blueguydotcom

To my knowledge (not vast on this subject, I asked one dealer and I've read several ref's here and TMV), it's pretty much going for sticker around here.

It may be going for sticker in NY but in so cal they can't give the car away. If you're motivated you can buy a TSX for a grand or two under msrp and then pay $500 for it to be trucked out to you.

There's a guy on freshalloy who sells G35s to people and ships the car for $400-500.

bobshiftright

...so if the demand for the TSX is high and the demand for the deeply-discounted RSX is low, Honda will send over more TSXs and fewer RSXs. A successful company like Honda can surely also figure out how to send fewer TSXs to the Midwest and SoCal, and more to New England and the Mid-Atlantic states if the regional demand-supply equation warrants it. Don't forget it's in a car dealer's best interest to make you think the car is rarer than it actually is. Car dealers are, by their nature car dealers, after all. Today is July 9, 2003 and the TSX is a 2004 model. I haven't seen/heard of any 2004 TLs or 2004 Accords, yet. Patience!

varmint

In one of the more kooky distribution plans, Honda has CR-Vs shipped to the west coast from Sayama Japan. However, east coast CR-Vs are shipped from their Swindon plant in the UK.

I expect that TSX distribution is flexible. It seems easier than the CR-V. However production is not. Slow sales of the RSX would not affect production of the TSX. They are built on different platforms and separate production lines. Read back a while and you'll find a discussion on that subject.

automophile

A new TSX - Carbon/ Charcoal. We had the BEST possible buying experience at Sierra Acura in Alhambra, CA. $500 below MSRP (I could not find a better offer anywhere in So. Cal.). They delivered exactly as promised on the phone, no games or last minute price adjustments after we arrived. We would like to go back and buy another car from them.

The salesman explained on the phone how other dealers, including the one in Van Nuys were scamming us by quoting low prices and actually charging higher interest - and he was RIGHT! We would have paid hundreds more over time for a car with a lower price! In addition, the sales mangler in Van Nuys kept playing the old tricks on us, even after we told him our maximum offer. He told us his final price was "NOT negotiable" and after we walked out, he chased after us with a lower price! If you want the great salesman's name at Sierra, email me at JJS55@hotmail.com.

We looked at EVERYTHING - Mercedes, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Audi, BMW - The Acura was the last car we looked at and the only one that filled the bill for performance, style, comfort, good looks and known reliability.

The next few days will be busy for me as I do my own personal detailing and apply a few coats of the fabulous Zaino polymer finish - it will look like glass!

Thanks to all here - you contributed many useful thoughts that steered us toward this purchase.

bobshiftright

I didn't think the TSX and RSX were made on the same line. But I thought that Honda would probably adjust it's imported car distribution within any import quotas according to demand. Since most of the world just recovering from recession, it's hard to imagine that Honda is running it's Euro Accord assembly lines at capacity. As it is, I'm not planning to even begin price shopping until I see TSX dealer inventories begin to rise.

midnightcowboy

give us some more incite on your comparison process. I am especially interested in the comparison of the Accord to the TSX. Right now I am favoring a 6-speed Accord Coupe. Did you select a manual shift? Was highway milaeage a consideration? What about straight line performance? Was handling important?

Thanks,

MidCow

robertsmx

Is also being manufactured in Japan and exported to Europe. The Swindon (UK) plants are now dedicated to the global compact platform (manufacturing Civic 3-door/5-door and CRV).

aggie1995

This has been mentioned before but

www.vtec.net has a review of the TSX Vs Accord 6spd

Check it out

xplorx4

Is the TSX NAV system worth $2000? I already own a handheld Garmin GPS receiver, which has navigation features, but I'm curious to know whether the NAV is a big advantage (because it adds the A/C and radio voice-controlled as well as navigation) or whether it is more prone to problems later on (i.e. if the nav LCD doesn't work, are your radio and AC are also disabled?)

What about the "welcome" screen delay? Is there some kind of button that you push?

Comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

damormino

Show me a person who recommends against getting an Acura Navi and I'll show you a person who has never owned one.

We have several friends that have Acura's and never considered the Navi. Once they see ours (in our MDX) they regret not getting it.

If you are considering other vehicles, this advise does NOT apply. Most other Navi's pale in comparison to Acura/Honda. I've heard that Infiniti/Nissan are pretty good, and Lexus/Toyota are acceptable. Navi's in American cars are not usually worth it. And Navi's in German cars (Audi, BMW, Mercedes, MINI and Porsche) are a bad joke.

stretchsje

"Show me a person who recommends against getting an Acura Navi and I'll show you a person who has never owned one."

Or they don't need it, or they realize a $200 handheld unit is more economical and can be taken off-road (very useful).

I've used the 2002 Maxima and handheld navi/GPS systems, and I wouldn't think of spending four digits one.

blueguydotcom

amen.

jcampod

The Nav unit is just plain cool. I did not need one, but got one for the cool factor and the added abilities with the voice recognition. Now I find I use the Nav for everything--especially finding restaurants, stores, etc. since it has a yellow page directory loaded in.

If it goes down (I'm not sure why it would), there are other ways to control the A/C and radio without the touch screen, so it wouldn't be affected.

Yes, there is a button to push at start up. Usually about a 10 second delay--enough time for me to back out of my driveway, punch "ok" then start driving.

I love mine. Is it worth $2,000? I think most people looking at the TSX can afford an extra 2K if they find the feature useful. It adds more luxury, or at least the perception of such. It's not like you are paying 2K extra for a nav unit on a Kia Rio or something.

robertsmx

With handheld GPS, you get what you paid for. I just used one for a road trip (Magellan), and disliked it. Doesn't compare to Acura Nav. If you don't mind spending an extra 2-grand on a car and think will use NAV often, go for it. I do take my car for long drive to new places, and so, I might consider it in my next purchase (if available). If you don't, and drive in your city forever, you may not find it as much useful.

blueguydotcom

The Nav unit is just plain cool.

That sums up why most people really get it. The neato factor.

robertsmx

Isn't often limited to gadgets, but badges as well.

blueguydotcom

too bad about that. i can understand being impressed by cool technology and amazing abilities. but badges? never gonna get it.

damormino

Those who later regret not buying the Acura Navi "thought they didn't need it" initially. Some even "thought an economical handheld would suffice". What it comes down to is that they now realize that they would have been happier with their purchase if they had spent the $2000 and got the Navi. As far as "needing" the Navi. Probably nobody "needs" it. But you don't need 200hp or a CD player either. If that's you criteria, get and 4-cylinder Accord - or even a Kia. But you'll be a lot happier with your decision if you get the TSX WITH the Navi.

xplorx4

I already own a dashboard-mountable GPS receiver that features address-to-address routing capabilities (a $400 Garmin GPS V), so the Navigation part of the system weighs less heavily for me as far as the "cool factor" is concerned.

My wife is also vehemently opposed to the NAV, and would only agree to pay the $2K premium if I really wanted it, but it's not enough for me to say "it's cool". I would need more of an excuse than that!

So, I'd like to know, aside from the navigation features of the system (which I already have available to me with my hand-held unit), how often do you use the voice-activated features to control the radio or climate?

Also, do you think having the NAV system is more likely to improve resale or not? In other words, how much will a NAV-equipped trade-in be worth compared to a non-NAV? $500, $1000, $2000?? In general, computer equipment and other types of electronics depreciate much more quickly as technology improves. (Would you pay a $2K premium on a NAV system in the CL or TL, which doesn't have voice-control of the climate and radio?)

In any case, I'll probably go visit a dealer and get a demo of the system so I can make my own judgement too.

Thanks!

id888

I can think of a bunch of other ways to spend the $2,000 that nav will set you back. Howsabout forged wheels, upgraded sound system, or a body kit (if you go for that sort of thing)?

Personally, I would get in my TSX and spend the cash on a sweet road trip...

damormino

I would NOT buy the Nav system to get voice-activated control of the climate and radio. I think you would regret that. My 2003 Acura MDX has the voice-control feature for the Navi, but not for the climate or radio - only the Accords and TSX's have that. (There are few things not related to the Nav like "What time is it?", but that not real useful. My first MDX (2001) had Navi, but no voice control. It was almost as good - the voice control doesn't add much.

As for resale, that alone is probably not a good reason. But I have a story... We loved our 2001 MDX, but planned to perhaps sell it in order to better finance our remodel. I put an add on eBay and got a response from someone whose wife HAD to have Navi. He contacted every dealer and could not get the exact car he wanted (colors/options/navi) for months. I sold the car (almost 2 years old and 27,000 for only a few thousand less than I paid for it). Then when we opted not to do our remodel, I bought a 2003 with Nav and rear entertainment. My buyer would NOT have purchased if I didn't have the Nav.
I don't think that's a good reason to buy it (the resale I mean), but in my case it definitely made the resale. Usually options like that don't, as used car buyers are much less discriminating when it comes to how a car is equipped. Go spend some time with the Navi. See if you dealer has a CL or TL on the lot that they will let you take for the day. If the dealer is in an area you don't know well, that will make it that much better. Ask them if there is a sales person who really knows the Navi system well (most don't) and can give you a 5-minute lesson on it. Then you can decide for yourself.

anonymousposts

Saw first TSX in person. Want TSX. In blue. No NAV. Just TSX. Want TSX. In blue. No NAV. Just TSX. Hey gee...you reading this? Blue TSX. In driveway. NOW.

automophile

To answer midnight cowboy concisely -

The Accord is a fantastic car, especiallty with DEEP discounting going on right now. However, my wife had 2 Integras in the past and was eying the BMW325. She likes the sporty performance, ride and handling. The Accord doesn't have it, the TSX does for $10K less than the 325, and has more advanced features. The TSX is also smaller than the Accord, something she prefers. All cars we looked at were auto trans. It was a hard decision, especially at the huge cost savings for the Accord.

You can't go wrong either way, but the TSX is the sports car. LOVE the seats!

dudka

ALthough I am not in the market to buy at this moment, but when the right moment comes, I will get a TSX (mainly when the prices come down a bit)
The navigation unit in the TSX, is it bright at night? Currently I use a Delorme Receiver hooked up to a laptop. The delorme software is not bad, with voice and all. But I really like Rand McNally's software, when it is dark outside (based on the internal clock) it switches the the screen to "reverse" mode. The screen is much darker than it is during the day, and only the roads are lit. I really hate bright lights inside the vehicle when driving at night. I usually turn the deash lights to their minimum setting. Most people I see on the road, have their dash lit all the way up, and most of the indash screens I have seen at night, light up the cabin in the ble glow. It would drive me nuts. Does the Acura unit have "night" feature?
Thank you

xbohdpukc

Leaving alone coolness factor...

the conversation:

-hey, we are going for a dinner to Barnaby's...
-where the hell is that?
-are you going via i-10? take an exit on 610 south then... no, jackie says you should go to shepherd...
-hold on, i'll look it up in the navi... is it on Shepherd and Gray?
-yes.
-ok, i got it, will be there in 20 mins.

works pretty good for me, lots of places, the only feature i miss -- the one they have in japan -- receiving the road condition along your route over the wireless and re-routing you if needed. but well, its not gonna happen in the nearest future.

2 dudka: yes, it switches to the night mode (with dark grey background and dimmed clock etc) when you turn on your lights -- does not blind you when it's dark at all.

robertsmx

I can think of a bunch of other ways to spend the $2,000 that nav will set you back.

True. The same goes for fancy alloy wheels, rear wing/spoiler, an expensive set of performance tires/brakes (which almost always guarantee quicker replacements as well) and so on. These may be about cosmetics to some, useful to a few of them, and completely useless way to spend money for the rest (include me).

At some point on the spending scale, wants take over the needs. If that did not happen, almost everybody would be buying cars no more expensive than $25K. NAV, at this time, is more about luxury than need for most of us, but to some it can be another useful tool, if they move around to new places frequently in their car.

I never thought I would use NAV anytime because I usually make my own plans/route before the trip starts. With the Magellan, I still had my trip plan in place which I used over the suggested routes, but once in a while, the NAV did help, especially in DC area while I was looking for a friends address, and many of the ramps/roads were closed due to July 4 fireworks. It did take a while to recalculate the route, but I did not have to stop anywhere to open up a huge city map supplied by AAA.

kyfdx

It may make your car easier to sell, but it depreciates much faster than the rest of the car. (as most options do, i suppose) Three year lease residuals are 2% lower for navi-equipped vehicles. For instance, on 2004 TSX-navi, the residual is only $700 more than non-navi after three years. Might not sound like a lot, but thats about $40 a month on a lease payment, assuming purchase at sticker price.

regards,
kyfdx

robertsmx

Luxury items have faster depreciation. Accord LX holds its value slightly better than Accord EX for the same reason.

aggie1995

Maybe this is better debated on an Honda/Acura Accessories/Navi Thread?

Accept it...those of you that like Navi will continue to use it and purchase it on every car you own into the future....those of you that find no value in it will probably go as long as possible using just a regular $5 map....There is no middle ground here.

This is just like the synthetic oil vs. dino oil or PDA vs. Paper Planner type of debates.

kyfdx

Not sure about actual resale, but Honda has higher residuals on EX than LX. This might be the exception to the rule.

regards,
kyfdx

aggie1995

According to Intellichoice the LX and LXV6 have better residuals than the EX.

But according to dealers who regualarly go to auctions the LXV6 is a dog to try and sell. No one wants 'em.

xplorx4

If there is a pre-existing thread describing the Honda/Acura NAV features somewhere in the Town Hall, please direct me to it.

Otherwise, I have a couple more questions about the NAV features:

1) Does the NAV include residential street-level detail for the entire continental US. or must you select a "regional" map area? (A while ago, I read that the Nissan nav system had regional data, and you had to purchase additional regions at a high additional cost... something about "unlocking" the extra parts on the DVD.)

2) Is there a "go to recently searched-for locations" feature?

3) Can you define your own waypoints? i.e. Can you find your friend's address, and name it "Steve's House"? If so, how many can you store?

4) Finally, when navigating a route, can you insert intermediate waypoints? i.e. If you are driving from Los Angeles to San Francisco, but you want to drive the coastal route along Hwy 1, instead of the more direct inland route (Interstate 5), can you do that?

5) If a freeway interchange is redesigned or if new roads are built, how can much does it cost to get a new DVD with the updated maps?

Thanks!

damormino

1) I believe the NAV has residential street-level detain for most of the US, but I have found there are places (usually far away from cities) where the detail is just highways. There is even one spot in my county where a fairly well-travelled road is not in the database. The resulting route to the coast is about 10 minutes longer. I've driven all over California and never had to do anything with regards to a "region", but I don't know what would happen if I went across country. The whole US is on the DVD, so there is no disk-change required. Maybe you would need to do something if you were planning to drive from on side of the country to the other. I can't imagine it would be out of the ordinary if it exists though.

2) You can always pull up recent destinations. It doesn't save search results, but if you select a destination from a list of results and then cancel it, it will be easy to pull up from the Previous Destinations list.

3) You can define way points like "Steve's Palace", but I don't know how many.

4) You can put in intersections or cities as intermediate points to force your trip.

Also, if you are planning on running errands, you can enter all the places in "Today's Destinations". The system will automatically sort them to keep your route efficient, but you can then re-order them by moving them up and down on the list.

5) DVD Updates has been a sticking point. I bought a 2001 MDX in December 2000 and was told there would be annual updates. I sold the vehicle in August 2001 and had never seen an update available. When I bought my 2003 MDX this past December, it had the new Nav system (voice) and newer database. But I don't know if those with 2001 models (now 2-1/2 years old) have ever got an update. If you go to buy a TSX, ask the dealer for something in writing on this.

Thanks!

midnightcowboy

therefore anything the Magellan will do the TSX NAV will do. The Accord and TSX have added voice input and HVAC and audio controls. It only shows street detail for major cities and even with disk updates they run 6-12 months behind new construction. The number of waypoints you can save is approximately 500.

id888

I don't know whether to believe him, but my insurance vendor was glad that I didn't get navi. He said that he would have had to charge me higher rates on the TSX. I suppose that navi is expensive to fix in a big collision.

On the other hand, if a car is that banged up that the navi in the dash is destroyed, wouldn't they just total the car? IMHO, charging more insurance for cars with navi is another way for the insurance industry to cash in.

jcampod

ID888--
I did 3 insurance quotes for my TSX with NAV, and NAV did not make a difference in the price of insurance.

hunter001

I have the DVD NAV in my 00 TL and will not buy another car without a factory nav system. I travel a lot on business and always ask for the Hertz "neverlost" navigation system (since that is the only option available in a rental car), but the Hertz NAV is garbage when compared to the Acura Navigation system.

Another important consideration for me is the "dead reckoning" feature with gyro-sensors in high-end systems like the Acura Nav. It is integrated into your car's internal controls and works even in the complete absence of satellite signals by storing the last obtained signals and then measuring your speed, direction and altitude and estimating your current position accurately. Low-end systems like the Hertz "neverlost" navigation (and/or garmin or any other comparable low-end systems) would be completely lost when driving through a city with tall buildings or a thick clump of trees or a tunnel etc where there is no signal. Especially useful while driving in pitch darkness or through THICK fog etc through unfamiliar regions.

Once while in LA, I got out of the hotel's underground parking and got onto the main road and the "neverlost" kept trying to get a satellite signal for a long time and was completely lost. It took a long time of meaningless wanderings before it finally got the signals and could direct me to the destination. With such low-end systems, might as well carry a paper map as a backup !

I would NEVER buy another car without a navigation system (since my wife and I travel around a lot using our NAV equipped car) but for a homebody, I am sure they can get by with paper maps (or even without paper maps by getting out and asking for directions !). My first venture into the Navigation world was with a laptop based Rand McNally Navigation system.....very very unsafe while driving and absolutely not recommended.

Later...AH

venus537

until my friend got his accord with the NAV, i would be in the camp that says it's a waste of money. but after realizing all the capabilities the system has, i have changed my opinion. so much so that i believe it's probably among the most useful options one can get. those who think a $5 road map is just as good are ignorant of the NAV capabilities.

it's no surprise to me that so many people love them and would never get another car without it.

xplorx4

Hypothetical situation:

You start your car, the NAV LCD displays a warning message that you must acknowledge. While waiting for the forced 10-second delay, you begin driving. After the mandatory delay, you press "OK" on the LCD, but nothing happens. Hmmm. You try the joystick on the bottom of the panel. Still, nothing happens.

You figure, well, the NAV must be frozen. No biggie, because you're just getting groceries at the local Safeway. Except..... gee, you'd really like to listen to the radio or turn up the fan on the AC.

Short of restarting the car to possibly reset the system, how do you do those things if the NAV LCD is "frozen"?

Are there redundant controls to allow you to choose radio presets or set the climate control fan speed?

PS. I am curious because I read on another TSX forum that several people had experienced malfunctions with their NAV systems.

jcampod

Yes, there are backup controls (just like on the non-Nav) for air and radio control. So if the NAV freezes up (it did this to me ONCE--remedied by restarting the car), you can still control everything.

To echo so many on the board--the NAV seems frivoless until you actually see it and use it. It is like e-mail or the internet--we all were skeptical at first (10 yrs ago) and now we can't live without it (or at least I can't).

id888

I didn't buy that sales pitch when I heard it. If anything, cars with navi are safer. I just can't justify the price tag right now. To each his own...

cardiackid1924

Somehow, the wife and have ended up wanting new cars at the same time. Even cooler, we both want Acuras: the TSX for me, the base RSX for her.

Don't you think this would enable us to do some serious dealing? I mean, if we can't get the deals we want, they've got two sales walking away instead of one. Anybody had a similair situation? Maybe I'll ask for both for $45,000 or something.

venus537

another sparkling review....

http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/test/jul03/154467.asp

damormino

Yes, you are in a better position to bargain. Don't limit yourself to one dealership. Also, you might have good luck going in on an evening in the middle of the week. Dealerships are slow then. If your in Northern California, let me know. Maybe we can make it a three-for...

cardiackid1924

Hey all,

This relates to my post above about buying two Acuras. Just got an offer on the RSX that the wife wants and the TSX that I want.

RSX - $650 over invoice.

TSX - 28k. No Nav, but with all the dealer accessories, (wheel locks, splash guards, trunk mat, etc..) AND the body kit with rear spoiler. Add all that up, and I think I'm getting about $1000 off MSRP, if not a little more.

I feel like I could do a little better on the RSX. I just asked for 200 over invoice. I haven't been able to find anyone up here in the Northwest willing to take much off the price of the TSX at all, so I feel pretty good about that number, considering I really want the body kit.

Thoughts? Feelings? Anyone?

aggie1995

elrod03

Go to carsdirect.com to get a good market price for any car. In Southern California, RSXs are going for 1 or 2 hundred dollars over invoice depending on the model you choose. The carsdirect website will ask for your zip code so you know it is a fair price for your area.

regfootball

he's basically selling the RSX at invoice and the TSX at sticker.

ask for another 50 bucks or walk.

cardiackid1924

Carsdirect is telling me the target price for the RSX in my area code is the MSRP. How can that be? Edmunds says the TMV on an Auto w/ Leather is $21,012, which is exactly $500 over invoice. My last offer from them is $21, 139, so I guess I'm doing fine if you go by what Edmunds says, and damn good if you go by what Cars Direct says.