Acura TSX

uncledavid

The 9.2 times is quite disappointing. Consider that the Accord EX 4 did it in 9.0 seconds. So, you're paying for premium gas and the actual off-the-line performance is no greater than the version of the engine tuned for regular gas. The only real difference between the Accord EX and TSX in performance is probably at highway speeds.

kyfdx

1) CR doesn't brake-torque their cars to get faster times.. They just step on gas from idle.. This will yield a time slower than most car magazines..

2) Most full throttle acceleration occurs after the car is already moving.. C&D has a nice test for this.. 5-60 time.

3) I've driven both the new Accord and the TSX, and the TSX feels noticeably faster to me.. and actual acceleration is rarely as important as "feel" for the driving experience (unless you are drag racing).

4) You've had your car for over a year, haven't you? Any complaints?

regards,
kyfdx

uncledavid

KYFDX - In general, I love the TSX. It handles great, and the looks have grown on me (I liked the styling at first, but I'm totally in love with it now). I find it to be extremely comfortable inside. But, it is not a perfect vehicle and here are some complaints:

1) The ride is stiff. It doens't handle bumps well and is a bit too jiggly. This is the weakest feature of the car.

2) I hate the HID headlights. the cutoff is too abrupt, and they don't reach far enough. Regular halogens work better, IMO.

3) The steering wheel controls are not lighted (that issue will be fixed for the 2005 version).

4) Low end torque could be better. Generally, the car feels pretty spunky and it does great on hills and at highway speeds. But, everyonce in a while, I get stuck behind a very slow truck or something on a ramp. The TSX does not move quickly from stop to 30 mph.

kyfdx

I've heard that a lot about the headlights.. CR didn't like them either.. My wife has Xenons on her car, and they work really well (Xenon high-beams also) and I really like them..

I'm a stiff ride kind of guy... but, jiggly isn't good..

I really like the TSX and came this/close to buying one.. but, then again, I only have about 20 miles on one..

From the lack of other complaints, I gather you haven't had any reliability issues?

regards,
kyfdx

uncledavid

No reliability issues whatsoever. Other drivers have complained about squeaks and rattles though. I haven't had any of those issues.

By "jiggly" I mean that the ride feels pretty choppy on wavy highway pavement. I guess the ride is pretty well controlled most of the time. If you like a really firm ride, it might be OK for you.

The engine and transmission are really smooth, btw. The 4-cyl engine receives a lot of abuse from posters here at Edmunds, but I actually see the engine as strength. You don't even know it is running most of thetime.

varmint

I think the TSX is one of those cars where 0-60 times are misleading.

For example... In a recent comparison test, they pitted the TSX against the Volvo S40, Subaru Turbo Legacy, and Audi A4. The Subie was easily the 0-60 champ. It bested the TSX by about 2 full seconds. But in the rolling start (5-60 mph), the TSX was only half a second behind the same Soob.

Of course, they were testing 6 speeds in that comparo.

curiousone

Can any one describe the difference between the automatic and manual transmission ? I guess the manual has a lot of fun in the handling. But how about automatic ? I am currently driving a manual Accord Ex and is considering TSX and may be forced to get an automatic TSX due to the growing incidences of traffic congestions in my area.

uncledavid

I'm not sure what you mean by "describe the differences." But, both transmissions are very nice in the TSX line. The 5-speed Automatic is exceptionally smooth and downshifts and upshifts at the perfect times. It has also got a manualmatic mode that is actually quite useful. But, the Six-speed is also quite smooth, and is geared more aggressively than the five speed. You'll definitely sacrifice some performance with the five speed.

IMO, the TSX seems slightly happier with the manual than the automatic. The six speed just seems like a better match for the engine. But, the automatic does work quite well. I bought if for the very reason you indicate (I live in Los Angeles, where traffic is INTENSE).

varmint

Insist on driving both when you go shopping. Try to cover the same roads and spend enough time that you can evaluate them thoroughly. It helps to call ahead and make the salesperson aware of this requirement.

achung1

I am thinking about to get the 05' model... with Nav system. I wonder.... can you set the map turns; but not the arrow (the arrow always stays upward)? Also, does it come with '3D' look map like the Nissan has? If anyone know... please let me know.. thanks a ton!

By the way... I heard 05' will come out on Oct 23... and I think the price will stay firm. Man... hate to wait until it cool down to 27.5K level....

uncledavid

Yes, you can set it so the map turns. You have your choice.

It doens't have a birdseye view like the Nissan GPS. It is a much, much easier to use system than Nissan's and the maps are quite a bit clearer (IMO).

The '05 will offer a few important updates: Lighted steering wheel controls, XM radio, and heated mirrors. I'd wait if I were you.

achung1

Thanks for your info... well, so far my mind is set on TSX... but still need to test drive it. Hmm... from time to time I tend to go back to used C-class (C230 sport sedan)... but oh well, I think TSX should offer a better build quality then C-class (since I have one new... and I know MB quality). Just one more question... does it comes with maintance free schedule like MB or Audi? Will I get a free loaner from the dealer? (sound like I am asking a lot... but man, MB has the best sevise you would ever experiance!) Have you guy ever feel the dealer treat you poorly since you just driving a TSX? Please let me know... thank a ton again!

robr2

TSX does not include scheduled maintenance.

It is a dealer decision to provide loaners - not an Acura policy.

cnybro

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a 6 sp. non-navi. The other cars on my short list are the Altima 3.5SE and the Mazda 6s 5 door, both of which have V6's. I have two small boys and I think the room will be fine. We have an Odyssey for the family hauler anyway. I always wanted a BMW, but not at $30K+.

My quandary is giving up some space and power that the Altima and 6s offer. However, I keep coming back the the quality of the TSX. I keep telling myself it's all about the total ride and not stop light drag racing. I have yet to drive an Altima with a stick (have driven last years auto) and the interior has been spruced up for 2005. However, I don't think it can compete with the TSX interior and handling. The warranty beats Nissan and is the same as Mazda. I can get a TSX for $25.5K which is priced the same as a similarly equipped Altima or 6s. The car mags normally don't compare these cars, but the price is about the same.

Please share your thoughts if you have considered these other vehicles. I plan on keeping this car for 10 years, or heck, maybe more. Thanks!

kyfdx

I wanted a BMW also.. and decided that for the cost, it would have to be the TSX..

Long story short, I got a used BMW instead, but never really considered the Altima or the Mazda6.. In my mind, they are a class below in looks and handlng dynamics..

So, if you are looking for a BMW substitute, I vote for the TSX.. like the BMW, it is not always the fastest car that is the best drive.

regards,
kyfdx

dudleyr

Honda does make a TSX with more room - the Accord. It is just as fast as the TSX (it is lighter, and has just as much torque) and gets 5 more mpg on the highway because of more relaxed gearing.

Might at least be worth a test drive.

anonymousposts

I agree with dudley. If you like the basic setup of the TSX but want more room the Accord 4 cylinder EX-L is a great candidate for some 17" wheels and a set of springs.

cnybro

If the Accord had a better looking rear end, I would consider it. I really want a stick too.

I just took home for an overnight demo a 2005 Altima SE-R. This thing is a rocket ship! They want $29K, which is $1K below sticker. I still think that still too much for an Altima. Interior is nice, but a distant second to Acura. Plus no traction nor stability control at that price! I found a stripped 3.5SE stick for $21.2K plus TTL. It's a good deal but absolutely no safety or luxury features at that price. No thanks.

So, that puts me back with the TSX. I thinking about just going for it.

gee35coupe

I didn't have to drive it. It was a nice car. And knew it was gonna be fast. I just think it's only worth $24k loaded...Not $32k. I'll wait and see.

dudleyr

You can get a stick with the Accord EX-L.

The TSX does look a little better, but the Accord has grown on me. I tend to discount looks anyway since I can't see the car while I am driving it, and I really don't care what other people see.

gee35coupe

I have to subscribe to that. I wish we got the cool hatches that they have from time to time on that "Fifth Gear" show on Speedvision.
Even the Yaris three door they get in Canada would be nice.

cnybro

I returned the Altima SE-R over lunch today and said no thanks. Not worth the $29K they offered, but it sure was fun to drive! You can actually take off in 2nd gear - very easy to shift. However, even with the updated interior, it's still kinda cheap but not bad. The 18" rims are too much for me and I don't need all the boy-racer add-ons. I want quality, class, and some decent performance. I sat in another Altima with the tan leather interior and it had the worst imitation wood trim I have ever seen. I mean it was tacky!

I'm going to take a TSX home tonight for a test run and see how I like it. It won't be nearly as fast as the Altima, but I think that will be OK. Heck, the two are the same price if you load up an Altima with equivalent equipment.

Another thing, will all the transverse mounted V6's these days, maintenance and repair is a nightmare. Try changing an AC compressor, starter, or an alternator with practically no room to work. Heck, just a simple hose change-out is no small feat. It's a snap with the TSX. My 2000 Honda Odyssey is an exception since they actually had the smarts to put enough room under the hood.

anonymousposts

"If the Accord had a better looking rear end, I would consider it. I really want a stick too."

This may or may not change your mind about looking at the Accord but I think that a few options can make the Accord a VERY attractive car, rear end included.





Is it perfect? Nah. But for $21,800 it'll definitely do the job.

dudleyr

Nice pics!

kyfdx

anon is posting pics of her rear end, again!!

That spoiler definitely makes a big difference.. I've found that I'd rather have a car that looks good without an added spoiler (must be getting old).

Almost all Accords through the years have looked better with spoilers.. But, most of them didn't look like they had to have one... IMHO, this generation has to have it.

regards,
kyfdx

anonymousposts

gotta show it off somewhere!

"IMHO, this generation has to have it"

I would almost agree with that. We had a 99 EX sedan and a 2001 V6 coupe and we didn't put a spoiler on either one. We have added a spoiler on all three 7th gens we have owned.Our black 03 coupe had the rear wing, the silver 04 EX-L had the decklid spoiler, and now we have the 04 red EX-L above.

That said, I would take the 7th generation Accord with ow without the spoiler over any other sedan on the market in it's price range. However, the TSX is a better exterior design. But for the price difference I can definitely live with the Accord.

varmint

Personally, I think the decklid spoiler does a better job of masking the poor shape of the Accord's rear end. It adds a finished trailing edge to the back end. The normal "bevel" is the worst part of the design, IMO.

gee35coupe

That look good from all angles. IMHO the Accord's front, side, and front 3/4 view makes the rear view irrelevant. I think they did a great job on the car. Especially when you consider the exceptional execution of the interior. If the only thing people have to complain about is the rear end styling...Honda did great.

pat

Uhh, I'm pretty sure all you good folks know how to find your way to the actual Accord discussion ...

anonymousposts

I would argue that the TSX is a European Accord therefore the Accord is a relevant subject matter when discussing the TSX.

varmint

Ah, but then some little punk like me would say that the Accord is the Inspire over in Japan, and that car used to be our Acura TL!

I'm sure there's a point to this somewhere.

Anywho... If the Accord's looks are a problem, the TSX certainly offers similar DNA. But with some modification, the Accord could be made into a viable alternative to the TSX.

kyfdx

"But with some modification, the Accord could be made into a viable alternative to the TSX."

Blindfold?

pat

Well, here's the deal - obviously I wasn't specific enough earlier.

We are comparing the Accord to the TSX at this link: Honda Accord vs Acura TSX.

And the multiple Accord pics, discussion of its decklid, rear view, interior, styling etc. all belong in this discussion: Honda Accord Sedans.

Of course it's okay to have some conversation about other vehicles here, but in this situation the Accord is overrunning the subject - all we need to do is go to the right places and continue.

Thanks!

flfungirl

I live in FL and I'd like to get CGP 6MT w/o navi and w/ ebony interior. From what I've heard this color is hard to come by. Does this mean that it will be hard for me to get a good deal? I'd prefer to get around $25-25,500 plus TTL. You think this is plausable? If so what should I start offerring at? I don't want to go too low so they laugh me out of the dealership!!

Do you think I may have to wait for the 05's considering the color combo?

browserguy

Greeting TSX owners. I'll be in the market for an 05 TSX (auto, carbon grey) in December and will be adding front underbody spoiler and possibly deck lid spoiler. Should be a very attractive look, IMHO, except for the wheels. 7 spoke always looks like a wagon wheel to me. I personally like the standard TL wheel.

The question- a dealer here has credited several TL buyers for a wheel swap, thus leaving them with stock TL wheels just lying around. They're slightly wider than the stock TSX wheel, but, I was wondering if I could put those on the TSX. Has anybody come across this notion before? Acura says they don't know if it'll work, and, frankly, didn't really care to try it out.

uncledavid

The TL wheels are heavier than the standard wheels on the TSX. That is not a big issue for the TL, which has a V6 with plenty of torque. The smaller high reving 4 in the TSX would be disadvantaged by more weight at the wheels though. So, I'd recommend against trying it.

fedlawman

There is a TSX owner here in Seattle who has TL wheels on his TSX (Carbon Gray). I met him last spring and saw his car in person.

He's very knowledgeable about cars and has done numerous, yet very tasteful mods to his TSX (CAI, Hondata gasket, etc.).

They look great and fit just fine.

fitguy

I have just emerged from your quandry; it was a tough call between the TSX and the Mazda 6s, didn't drive/consider the Altima as I don't care for the styling or interior. I ended up purchasing a loaded 6s hatch on Monday, here's my rationale: (and I am pro-Honda, traded in a great '03 Accord Coupe, just got too cramped)I feel the TSX is a little (very little) better in quick handling manuevers because of the lighter weight up front; the interior materials are also higher grade. However, what sold me on the 6s was the versatility of the hatch- that thing will fit big items with ease. I do like the V-6 also and the fact it runs on regular, though the leasser gas mileage vs. the TSX will probably even out cost. Features on the loaded 6s were a direct match except for lack of dual-zone climate control (no issue for me); plus it has the sport package with spoiler, sill extensions, etc.- it is for sure a hotter looking vehicle (and I'm no kid- 48 yrs young, just tired of bland vehicles!). And the final clincher- $22,999 final price, it is an '04. I've never owned a Mazda, the '03 Accord was my 3rd Honda- I'm hoping the Mazda will provide similar reliabilty. If storage and price were not a consideration, I probably would have went with the TSX, but with 2 kids 13 & 9 and a need for utility (we also own a Expedition that no one likes to drive, need it for towing)the Mazda seems like a great alternative to another wagon or mini-SUV.

dudleyr

Sure would be nice if Honda brought over a larger hatch or wagon. The TSX wagon that everybody else gets is sure nice. I think they fear it will take away some of their more profitable SUV sales though.

I would be all over the Mazda 6 wagon if it was available with the 4 cylinder. The v-6 gets worse gas mileage than the much larger and heavier Odyssey.

browserguy

Thanks to you and UncleDavid for the responses. Indeed, the size difference (thus, weight difference as well) was my hesitation, but, I just knew somebody out there felt the same and, perhaps, acted upon it. Great to hear someone actually did this with good results.

There's a five spoke OEM wheel for the TSX called Silver Star, but, the spokes are narrow enough to make the wheel look too "light". The TL wheel has just the right amount of thickness, great proportioning IMO.

Anyway, fedlawnman, any chance of a photo of his TSX from this guy? If not, that's ok.

uncledavid

Fitguy, the dual-zone climate control in the TSX doens't really work all that well. In fact, I basically see that as a feature that is a gimic in most upscale vehicles. Its not like you can really change the temp for two people who are sitting directly next to each other in a fairly small vehicle.

Love my TSX to death, but the dual-zone HVAC controls do not give it an advantage of the M6 or other vehicles.

On the downside, Consumer Reports just booted the M6 off their recommended list because of reliability problems. In fact, the only Mazda they now recommend is the M3. The M6 and RX8 both had poor reliability.

The only upscale vehicle with better reliability than the TSX was the IS300.

anonymousposts

We have the dual-zone in our car and while it's not perfect .. it does help alleviate some of the "I'm hot/I'm cold" arguments.

tribbles

Did you consider the Subary Legacy Wagon?

sigmamason

I have looked for a link to the CR issue on the Mazda 6.
I have driven both cars and I thought the M6 was far better than the M3.
I have a couple of friends with M3s and the A/C just doesn't work at all on the cars. One is in arbitration with Mazda now for all the problems and it seems to be more M3 owners are mad than M6 owners...

uncledavid

Sigmamason,

CR (unlike the fine folks at EDMUNDS) does not give access to their full site for nonsubscribers. You may not get all the updated information on reliability etc without a subscription.

However, CR surveys their readership each year, and the latest reliability "verdict" is always based on the most recent year of data collection. The results are published every year about this time in the New Car Preview Issue (currently on the stands) and later in their annual Auto issue.

According to the latest wave of data, the M3, Miata, and Tribute are the only Mazda cars with average to better than averate reliability. CR removed all other Mazda products (including two of my favorite vehicles - the 6 and RX8) from their recommended lists due to poor reliabilty. Last year, the M6 was actually one of the least reliable vehicles in its' class - which speaks to the probable influence of Ford's management and supply streams.

The TSX had an above average rating for reliablity, and was something like one or two precentage points aways from "Much better than Average." The only car in that class with a better reliability performance was the IS300.

Personally, I'm a little surprised by all these numbers. Lots of TSX owners complain of squeaks and rattles (I've had none myself though) so I thought that would show up in CR's survey. Also, I've always considered Mazda to be one of the most reliable vehicles on the road. But, I guess I was wrong about that one.

Good luck with your purchase, btw.

David

varmint

CR used to refrain from publishing information unless they had three years of data on a particular vehicle. I think they have since reduced that to only two years. Either way, the number they publish will be based on more than one years survey results.

Squeaks and rattles may not make it to the survey. CR subscribers are asked to include only those issues which they consider "significant" in either cost or time spent in the shop. While I agree that squeaks and rattles are a big PITA, they probably don't rate high in cost or time. :-(

uncledavid

CR's reliablity "verdict" is based on three years of data, but the estimates for each of the years is based on one survey. So, they report findings from only this year of the survey, but make their final reliablity judgement based on the owners from the last three years in the current survey.

As an example, the rating from the Honda Accord will be based entirely on this year's survey. But, the reliability prediction will be based on averaging owners in this year's survey who own 2004, 2003, and 2002 Accords. One survey, but three years of model data from that survey.

For the TSX and M6, the reliability judgement is based on less information because those cars haven't been out very long.

As for the TL, I got on the DISCUSSION boards at CR's site and asked the Auto Editor why it was only rated "Average" in the nearest survey. He said that most of the complaints in the survey had been about minor fit and finish issues, like squeaks and rattles.

anopholes

Has anyone had experience with Acura dealers near RTP?

Thanks,

Chris

anopholes

I am down to the TSX vs 9-3 linear (Overseas Delivery so it is actually $3K cheaper).

I have a 10 mo old infant, will the TSX perforated leather be a problem as various things get inevitably poured onto (and into) the perforations? Is it easy to clean?

I really like the Saab safety (recent IIHS dual best pick ratings), anti-whiplash seats, EBD (elecrtonic brake distribution), wide angle mirrors (no blind spots).

Anyone else care or notice that the TSX lacks these?

I also like the huge Saab trunk but fundamentally I am scared of owning (vs leasing as I currently do a 2000 9-3) a Saab. Will the complicated gadgets and actuators with all the goodies in the TSX really stand up to 6-7 years of ownership?

Finally, any elegant hands-free phone options with the TSX? I already found out about the add on cables to allow ipods (with non-navi TSX). The Saab has a nice built in Aux connector for ipods but hands-free phone wiring requries a premium package.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

carguy58

Yeah I too thought that Mazda's were always reliable vehicles. The last issue of CR I read rated the M6 more reliable than the Honda Accord in this year earlier issue. I don't think because the M6 is made out of a Ford plant that that neccesarily taints the M6's build quality. The old 626 was average to above average in reliability and that was made out of the same plant that the M6 is made out of now. The M6 had problems with rusting for the 03 model year so that may have something to do with the dropping reliability of the M6. As for the the M3 problems they should fix the A/C for the 05 model year. Thats first year bugs more than anything. The Rx-8's problems is more because I think because of the rotary engine. The rotary is a complictated engine.

As for Honda/acura reliability the sqeauks and rattles on Honda's first year products of late has been a problem of late with the 03 Accord and 04 TL. I think Honda corrected that with the 04 Accord and hopefully the 05 TL will follow in terms of getting those first year quality problems resolved.