I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348

My '68 Cutlass has vinyl. It actually uses several different types, a typical '60s Detroit grained vinyl that feels somewhat stiff on the bolsters at either end and around the lower perimeter, a patterned vinyl that looks perforated but isn't in the seating surfaces, and a totally different patterned vinyl for the backside of the seat. I recall dad's '78 Grand LeMans Safari had much different vinyl, stuff that seemed much thicker but softer, and which would make a good substitute for leather. Base-model Caddys like the ATS and the new CT4 still come with leatherette, and it looks OK in black but in lighter shades appears fake.

sda

Looking at ab’s Intrigue, I am reminded one of several things Olds did differently than a lot of manufacturers was to conveniently place the ignition switch on the dash, right of the steering wheel instead on the right side of the steering column. They also did a nice job of providing a two tone dash and carpet. My 00 GL was a dark metallic blue with a tan cloth interior highlighted by a rich mocha colored top section of the dash, door panels and matching thick cut pile carpet. The dash gauges (gages, per GM) were large and clearly marked. It was a nice interior.

tjc78

I’m sure I’ve said it before but I really liked the Alero and Intrique. Best GM interiors of the era.

In Jan of 99 I was all set to buy an Intrique. It had the more powerful engine and pretty loaded up.

They had a 98 leftover 88 LS all loaded up that I ended up getting a good bit cheaper. That was a huge mistake as that car was a major headache. I did enjoy driving it for short time I had it, but could no longer take the water leaks. After the 88 I headed to Toyota for awhile. I wonder if I bought the Intrique where I would have headed after. GM was dead to me until 2012 lol

ab348

Here's a pic of that taken from the back seat. the front seatbacks intrude a bit on the lower edges of the pic.



I really liked the car. Had it 7 years. Intrigues are really thin on the ground here now.

fintail

Do any cars have steering column ignition switches (E-Z steal) anymore? That's faded away now even for cars lacking keyless start, right? I guess it was the cheapest way to have a key-based interlock. I don't think any MBs ever had a column ignition key - none I've ever driven or ridden in anyway.

sda said:

Looking at ab’s Intrigue, I am reminded one of several things Olds did differently than a lot of manufacturers was to conveniently place the ignition switch on the dash, right of the steering wheel instead on the right side of the steering column. They also did a nice job of providing a two tone dash and carpet. My 00 GL was a dark metallic blue with a tan cloth interior highlighted by a rich mocha colored top section of the dash, door panels and matching thick cut pile carpet. The dash gauges (gages, per GM) were large and clearly marked. It was a nice interior.

roadburner

This is the leather interior of our old X3 at 12 years and 184K miles:


Here's the Millpoint upholstery in the Club Sport:


I installed reupholstered E21 Recaros in the 2002; the velour look wasn't my first choice, but they were a good deal and included matching rear seat cushions:

fintail

Maybe not too obscure yet (but might be there in another 20 years), saw the most pristine early/pre facelift BMW E60. And it was legally parked, not zooming around without signals or tailgating anyone. It looked brand new.

uplanderguy

I'm glad your leather has held up, and I know I can't tell a lot from a small pic, roadburner, but that could almost pass for vinyl in my eyes. The old buttery, super-soft leather used in Cadillacs and Lincolns is the kind that would have lines and creases in a few years. I liked the looks but hated how they wore over the years. Of course, most people probably don't do a thing to treat it (have you?) and I can see why--who wants to have to do that?

andre1969

The leather in my '79 5th Ave is starting to look a bit worn here and there, but is holding up pretty well. In contrast, I remember the driver's seat bottom cushion on my '00 Park Ave ripping a few years after I bought it. Of course, it wasn't a new car, as it was 10 model years old when I bought it, so that would put the tearing at around 12-13 years, but still.

I also remember my uncle commenting, a bit politically incorrectly, that he thought a "fat woman" owned the car before me. I don't know what clued him in; I think it might have been some rub marks on the B-pillar trim or something? Last fall, he was used-car tire-kicking, and said something similar about an '09 or so Cadillac STS that was on one of the lots. It had about 90,000 miles on it I think, and the interior was in mostly good shape, except the driver's seat seemed a mess...not the leather so much, but the underlying structure seemed stressed out, somehow. Uncle just blurts out "a fat man owned this one!"

One thing I remember the salesman at that lot saying, was that in his experience, it seems like the seats of domestic cars just don't hold up like they used to, but that the Japanese are much better. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but I remember we also looked at a 2006 or so Lincoln Town car that was at another dealer. It had around 90,000 miles on it as well, and the interior just seemed like it was falling apart. Of course, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", and these were just a few sample points.

As for my Park Ave, the basic structure of the seat was just fine, it was just that tear. Oh, and a couple of the power assists were starting to fail. My uncle ended up buying, of all things, a 2006 Toyota Sienna minivan with about 165,000 miles on it. He has a 2016 Colorado with the extended cab, but the back seat is really tight. Last year, one of our elderly relatives, who was something like 96, was in the hospital, and he took two other relatives to go see her. One of them was able to just barely squeeze into the back. Well, my uncle mentioned about getting a second vehicle, something he could "haul the family around in", if needed. And I was like WHAT family...ours is either dying off, or moving away! Sure enough, the 96 year old passed away a few months later. The other relative, who had squeezed into the back seat, passed away this past December at the age of 95. And the other relative (daughter of the 96 hear old, who's probably in her mid-70's, herself) is ready to high-tail it to Florida.

Oddly, it was me who talked him into the Sienna, but I didn't do it intentionally. He originally wanted to get a small crossover, like a used CR-V, or something like that. Or a midsized/full-sized sedan. But, then at the same time, he was using me as sort of a fit-test as to whether he should buy it, where he'd have me get the front seat to where I'm comfortable, and then see how the back was. I kept telling him that I'm not the person who has to drive it, he is, but he kept insisting. None of the crossovers that caught his eye were comfortable to me. I remember sitting in an older CR-V (forget the exact year now), and even a Saturn VUE! In addition to being cramped, the VUE just seemed like it had one foot in the grave. The STS just gave me this vibe that it had the potential to be a money pit. Plus, when I put the seat all the way back, it essentially became a 2+2. While we were at this dealer, we also tried out the Sienna, just out of curiosity.

Then, we went to another dealer, to look at the the Town Car. It was shoved way in back of what almost looked like an impound lot full of cars that would never be claimed, and just about everything back there seemed a bit beat on. Then we went to another place, looked at a 2006 (I don't know how he ended up finding so many 2006 models) Lucerne with a carriage roof, but when we saw it in person, it looked like it had been repainted in some off-key silvery blue that had metallic flakes that were way too big. It was flaking here and there, and I warned him that the whole car would probably look like crap within a year.

At the end of the day I said that, of all the vehicles we looked at, I actually found myself liking that Sienna more than I thought I would. And damn, if he didn't have the thing a few days later.

roadburner

I treat it maybe once per year tops. I don't care if the leather is super-soft; I care whether the seat provides proper support when I'm driving. I love the sport seats in the Club Sport and M235i; the adjustable thigh support is a great feature and the side bolsters(adjustable on the 2er) just feel right.
Surprisingly, the cloth high-back buckets in my Wrangler are very comfortable as well, although I think they were specific to the Sahara package.

uplanderguy

Defies belief probably, but there is an Audi A5 in my driveway now...my brother-in-law's. I have no idea of what year. It's sort-of a station wagon. He's not a car guy but a general showboat in most ways, five years younger than me. He's staying here a few days. Not a word about the Studebaker in my garage, and not a word from me about the A5, LOL.

andre1969

I swear, I can't keep up with the nomenclature these days, but I thought an A5 was a coupe?

kyfdx

andre1969 said:

I swear, I can't keep up with the nomenclature these days, but I thought an A5 was a coupe?

Coupe, convertible or Sportback (4 door hatch)

andre1969

I just googled the A5 Sportback. Not a bad looking rig, actually. Normally I don't like that "Aeroback" look on a bigger car, but it definitely seems like the manufacturers are getting better at making them look good. Earlier attempts, such as the Honda Crosstour and that little Acura thing, made the old '78 Cutlass Salon look good by comparison, but some of these later attempts are pretty tasteful.

kyfdx

andre1969 said:

I just googled the A5 Sportback. Not a bad looking rig, actually. Normally I don't like that "Aeroback" look on a bigger car, but it definitely seems like the manufacturers are getting better at making them look good. Earlier attempts, such as the Honda Crosstour and that little Acura thing, made the old '78 Cutlass Salon look good by comparison, but some of these later attempts are pretty tasteful.

The Sportback is the most popular body style for the A5.

uplanderguy

Well, the topic of cars did come up, both Stude and A5. His is a 2016. Bought it used and part of the deal was the previous lady owner gave him her prepaid dealer maintenance to 60K miles. It has 63K now. At first I thought it was black but it's navy blue. He actually ran it through a car wash and asked if he could borrow some spray wax. I don't use that but gave him some Meguiar's Cleaner Wax, which I use on all my cars, and used it on the hood and side portions of the roof.

I think I underestimated his appreciation of cars a bit.

uplanderguy

Isn't "Sport" the most cliched part of any model name? It's taken over from "Custom" in the '70's I think, LOL.

uplanderguy

Totally changing subjects, but this '66 Olds Starfire, original car with 79K miles, is on the "All Original Cars" Facebook page. I'm so-accustomed to being around Studebakers that the proportions don't do much for me; that said, I love the color, last year for a Starfire, but I am especially smitten with the Strato-Bench seat which I have never seen (or even knew about) in a Starfire.

The Grand Prix I think looked cleaner outside, and had wood on the dash instead of black vinyl, and also had a rear-seat center armrest, but I'm loving that front seat.

Ah, actual colors!

My Stude buddy who went to GM technical school in the late sixties has always been convinced that Olds had the best engineering of the divisions then, and the best engines.

andre1969

I do like that interior. I like how, from that angle, the front seat almost looks like it's floating.

Personally, I think I like the Starfire's proportioning better than the various 88 coupes back then. The slightly more formal roof makes the Starfire look like a mammoth Cutlass to me, but there's something about that generic '65-66 B-body hardtop roofline that, while it looks great on a Chevy, Pontiac, or LeSabre, just doesn't seem quite right on an Olds. I think it's because where the rear fender line of the Olds has such a strong kick-up around the C-pillar area, compared to the other two, maybe it just doesn't blend as well?

ab348

Back when I was 10 years old, dad had a '66 Olds fullsizer (not sure of the exact model) with that dash and a 425 under the hood. That was the car in which he hooked a chain to the rear of the frame and the other end to some spruce tree stumps on a piece of property we owned to pull them out. It was a leased car so he didn't care. It did it too, and he talked about that car for years as a result. :laughing:

stickguy

Up, sometimes car people don't show it until they have a car worthy of the attention!

fintail

"Sport" (the false pretense of such) is a disease today. Every marketer wants everything to be "sporty", so suburban drones trudging from their faceless office campuses to their cardboard 'n plywood tract houses can pretend to be exciting and dynamic, when there's nothing actually wrong with being a little boring. Probably connected to why sports parents seem shoutier than ever in recent years - vicarious living, pretending to be something.

Because of this, for the US market anyway, MB has dropped the traditional grille and hood ornament for the 2021 E-class facelift, as almost nobody was buying it anyway.

uplanderguy said:

Isn't "Sport" the most cliched part of any model name? It's taken over from "Custom" in the '70's I think, LOL.

kyfdx

"Sport" is the base model for a Wrangler..

fintail

I think it was also the base Caravan in the late 90s. Just more pretend excitement.

ab348

fintail said:

I think it was also the base Caravan in the late 90s. Just more pretend excitement.

Caravan Sport models dominated the minivan racing circuit. :laughing:

omarman

The People in Japan that Race Dodge (B Series) Vans Are the World's Finest People

stickguy

no, the sport was an upgrade package. I had the Plymouth version, the Rallye

fintail

With black plastic trim and IIRC plastic hubcaps, I assumed it was base.

I suppose the Explorer "Sport" also wasn't technically base, just a slightly cheaper model given a maybe ironic name.

stickguy

no, it was fancier trim and had fancy alloy wheels, and some other goodies.

fintail

Ugh, what am I thinking of then? I swear there was a named model that had basic looking trim. I guess over 20 years, my memory of minivan option packages has faded

I'll still hold to the idea that the sportification of everything is lame, but I am not sure who is lamer - the marketers who make it, or the consumers who lap it up. Something of a Walter Mitty effect, maybe also seen in the SUV/CUV movement.

kyfdx

fintail said:

With black plastic trim and IIRC plastic hubcaps, I assumed it was base.

I suppose the Explorer "Sport" also wasn't technically base, just a slightly cheaper model given a maybe ironic name.

Wasn't the "Sport" Explorer the 2-door, for a time? Or, am I thinking about something else?

Michaell

kyfdx said:

fintail said:

With black plastic trim and IIRC plastic hubcaps, I assumed it was base.

I suppose the Explorer "Sport" also wasn't technically base, just a slightly cheaper model given a maybe ironic name.

Wasn't the "Sport" Explorer the 2-door, for a time? Or, am I thinking about something else?

Yes, the gen I Explorer "Sport" was the 2-door.

Then there was the Explorer "Sport" Trac, which was the 4-door with a small pickup bed.

fintail

Yeah, I think as long as the 2 door existed, it was a Sport. Always had a look about it like it would handle worse than a 4 door model, so maybe not sporty.

I remember when the Sport Trac debuted, I was still a student, and a friend of mine really wanted one, which I found funny as he was the most fratboy type I've ever known (I don't mean that in a good way) and I saw the Sport Trac as an old man's truck. I guess certain things can push buttons in people - I'm definitely not immune to that.

andre1969

fintail said:

I remember when the Sport Trac debuted, I was still a student, and a friend of mine really wanted one, which I found funny as he was the most fratboy type I've ever known (I don't mean that in a good way) and I saw the Sport Trac as an old man's truck. I guess certain things can push buttons in people - I'm definitely not immune to that.

Funny you'd mention that, the "old man" truck. I'd never really thought about it before, but I can definitely see that now, that I look at them. One feature they had though, that I thought was pretty cool, was the bed extender, that "baby-gate" type thing where you could drop the tailgate, flip the extender over, and it was sort of like having an extended bed.

I don't know if those bed extender gates were around in the aftermarket before the Sport Trac, but that was what first made me notice them.

Speaking of "old people", now that the likes of the Cutlass Ciera, Century, LeSabre, Grand Marquis, etc, have pretty much gone the way of the tailfin, I wonder what they've migrated on to? Of course, now that I'm older myself, what once seemed like "old people" suddenly doesn't seem so old!

My Mom and stepdad are 71 and 67, respectively. They have a 2016 or so Altima (hers), a similar-vintage Prius (his), a similar vintage Escape ("theirs") I guess, and recently bought an F-150, so I'd guess it's either a '19 or '20. My uncle is also 67, and has a 2016 Colorado. Oh, and the 2006 Sienna I mentioned earlier. I have one cousin who's in her mid 70's, who has a Cruze. It's a first-gen model, but one of the later years, so maybe a 2015?

I guess a lot of them just buy car like base-level Camrys, Corollas, Altimas, etc? Or maybe a crossover? I remember when stuff like the Scion xB and Honda Element first came out, they tried to target a youth market, but a lot of older people started buying them for the utility, and ease of entry/exit, which was much better than a typical sedan, but not quite the climb of a truck or a real SUV.

stickguy

Toyota’s for sure, but even the new Camry likely abandoned them. A lot went to small CUVs.

fintail

Thinking of the Sport Trac, I knew a few who bought them new (they seemed to sell around here) - all early boomers or older save for one, who was maybe later in the boomer demographic. Of course, as the car age and prices flatten, someone might buy one for practical purposes, which can defy age, and they'll sell to young buyers who just want a car and maybe don't want a 10 year old Sonata.

An generic "old person" car in my area is a basic Camrolla as mentioned, prior gen Civics, basic Subarus, cloned CUVs, minivans. Fancier ones might be an E or S-class, almost any Lexus, and I don't think I've seen many under 70 in a new SL. My mom is in her 70s - Camry. Uncle almost the same age - Taurus from my grandma when she stopped driving, and he sold the LeSabre he had owned for eons. My dad's last new car was a Town and Country. I have a couple cousins in their mid 60s - one has a CTS, the other a Santa Fe.

stickguy

1984 k car convertible. Really square. Were they all branded Lebanon? Red. Parked outside eye doc with top down. Owner was a pretty weird old dude, but really excited about his car. Good thing he left before me. Massive T storm blew through during my appointment!

uplanderguy

With wood on the side, they were "Town & Country" I believe. Or maybe I'm remembering the wagons.

tjc78

stickguy said:

1984 k car convertible. Really square. Were they all branded Lebanon? Red. Parked outside eye doc with top down. Owner was a pretty weird old dude, but really excited about his car. Good thing he left before me. Massive T storm blew through during my appointment!

I ran home from the shore to mow the lawn and laundry. Finished just before the storm. Wow. It was a big one. Lots of down trees in my hood

fintail

There was also a Dodge 600 convertible IIRC.

stickguy

wasn't the 600 though based on the nose. Looked more Aries plain nose and size. No wood trim either. I think it must have been a plain sided Lebaron.

ab348

If it looked like this




or this



it was a Dodge 600.

andre1969

The Dodge version of the convertible was branded as the 400 in 1982-83. The 400 in general was a poor seller, but oddly, the coupe outsold the sedan, while the convertible sold better than you'd expect. The 400 coupe did have sort of a stubby little personal luxury coupe look to it though, so that might have helped it a bit. Dodge brought out the 600 in 1983, as a sedan only. It was on a longer wheelbase, 103.3", versus 100.3" for the Aries/Reliant and 400/LeBaron. Even though a 103.3" wb still sounds stubby, Mopar also added a bit of bulk to the rear, for a slightly larger trunk, and overall, the car was more or less in range of a Chevy Celebrity or Fox-based LTD when it came to interior room. It wasn't a huge seller either, but managed about 33,000 units that first year, compared to maybe 9580 400 sedans, 11504 400 coupes, and 4888 convertibles.

For 1984, Dodge dropped the 400 sedan, but kept the coupe/convertible, and moved them to the 600 nameplate, even though they were still on the shorter wheelbase. Anyway, the convertible looked like that more squared-off style from 1982-85, regardless of whether it was a 400 or 600. For 1986, they gave it that slight aero restyle, with the crosshair grille. That year, they sold 11,678 base convertibles and 4759 turbos. The coupe was still holding steady, with 11,714 built.

But, that 1986 restyle would be a one year only thing. Both the coupe and convertible were dropped for 1987, when the aerodynamic, downright sexy (for a K-car) LeBaron coupe and convertible came out, and it was decided Dodge wouldn't get a version. But, do make a concession to Dodge, Chrysler dropped the Laser sporty coupe, letting Dodge have that market to itself with the Daytona. I think Chrysler got the better end of that deal, though.

Dodge did get a Shadow convertible in 1991, but it was a really stubby little thing, and a bit rounded. While still based on the K-car, it looked nothing like the '82-86 400/600 or LeBaron. It almost looked like a stubbier, less attractive, exposed-headlight LeBaron.

andre1969

While Chrysler never built an Aries or Reliant convertible, a lot of the sheetmetal was easy-swap. So it's possible that someone with too much time on their hands built one. I googled around and found this...



And, I don't know if this is a photoshopped gag someone made, or was actually offered by an independent coachbuilder, but I also found this...

stickguy

that bottom one looks like it. same color and everything. Definitely that size and upright nose. Was not the bigger 600, but could have been the smaller version. I did not analyze the nose that closely!

fintail

K-vertible. Funny name, I like it.

On the road this afternoon it was 90s day, saw an early 90s Sentra SE-R driving, and a Mk IV Supra, silver with factory wing and wheels, on a flatbed.

stickguy

Guy in my neighbor seems to be a hoarder, including on driveway. Storm blew some tarps off. Exposing an Allente, sedan Seville (late RWD), a C3 vette, and newest addition a 1970ish el Camino. 2 tone brown and tan.

ab348

Oh wow, a yellow bird '79 Seville on Bat! No vinyl roof either. Schweet!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1979-cadillac-seville-4/

fintail

So nice without the vinyl top, with such a late build/delivery date, I wonder if someone was trying to get in just before the bustlebacks. Interesting invoice too, $4700 trade in on a 5 year old Coupe DeVille seems really good. Colors look right on this car, too.

When I was a kid, I recall a friend of my dad had downsized non-parallel B-pillar Fleetwood in that color combo, it was like riding on a cloud.

andre1969

That Seville is nice. Wouldn't normally be my first color choice, if only because over the years I've ended up with more than my fair share of cars that were either cream/beige or a pale creamy yellow. But, that Seville wears it really well!