I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

stickguy

Nice looking car. For a caddy. Small by traditional standards, but still big to me!

stickguy

Passed a trailer on the highway with a moss green 70ish Ranchero on it. Actually looked pretty clean. Rare sighting.

ab348

stickguy said:

Nice looking car. For a caddy.

Philistine!!! :laughing:

ab348

andre1969 said:

That Seville is nice. Wouldn't normally be my first color choice, if only because over the years I've ended up with more than my fair share of cars that were either cream/beige or a pale creamy yellow. But, that Seville wears it really well!

I love it because of the yellow leather inside. Where else are you going to get yellow leather these days?

uplanderguy

When I was a lot younger, I'd goof on yellow Cadillacs--for some reason, an '80 Coupe deVille is what I think of when I think "yellow Cadillac with yellow interior"....BUT...I am loving that Seville, with no vinyl top. Old-skool American luxury inside; styling and proportions which have stood the test of time to my eyes.

I always liked the Seville instrument panel--scaled-down version of the '74-76 big Caddy panel I think.

My friend who bought the white Seville with white vinyl top and greenish cloth interior, was having it pinstriped today since when it was previously repainted, the prior owner left the pinstripe off.

fintail

Out on the road today: 85-86 Coupe Deville, pre-1986 W126 (likely a 300SD), pre-facelift Bronco II, Westfalia Syncro, F01 ActiveHybrid 7er. Also a Dodge Spirit and 92-93 Taurus, while not rare, are getting old but still running around.

andre1969

My only issue with the Seville's dash is that, in typical Cadillac fashion, instrumentation is sparse. But, to be fair, that was most cars back then. I can't remember; did Cadillac offer any kind of digital augmentation for the Seville, like perhaps a trip computer that would also show temperature, oil pressure, or anything like that? I think the downsized '77+ DeVille/Fleetwood offered something along those lines, but I'm not sure.

But, you gotta give GM credit...there is very little, if anything, on that Seville that looks like it came straight out of a Nova!

As for gauges versus idiot lights, I don't know how much truth there is to this, but I've heard one reason they started switching to idiot lights, is that drivers wouldn't pay attention to the gauges! An oil pressure gauge could read low, temp could read high, and drivers wouldn't necessarily notice until it was too late. And the amp gauge was a story in and of itself...sometimes reading a bit high, sometimes low, and if you're stopped with your turn signal on, it would often bounce in rhythm with the signal light...not exactly imparting a high quality feel. But with an idiot light, when that sucker came on, you knew it was time to pay attention!

And, it seemed like it was the nicer cars, where they started phasing the full gauges out sooner. At least, I can remember with a '67 Newport I had, it only had the speedo, fuel, and amps. Idiot light for oil. And interestingly, for temp, there was a "cold" light and a "hot" light. But then, the '68 and '69 Darts I owned had a temp gauge.

I think DeSoto started phasing in idiot lights for '59. My '57 and the '58's I've seen have a full complement of the typical gauges, but all the '59's I've seen had idiot lights for oil and amps.

ab348

Chrysler held on to gauges for most things longer than the other domestics. I remember our '71 Monaco had gauges for fuel, temp, and amps, with oil pressure being a light. For Mopars that amp gauge was troublesome later in the vehicle's life sometimes, with the bulkhead connector under the dash sometimes getting cooked because of the heat from that amp wire. Most vehicles went to volt gauges because of the current going through an amp gauge.

ab348

Here's something that tends to stand out. A pic taken today at the Gatlinburg Inn in TN and posted on a Mopar page:

uplanderguy

I am pretty sure that was a 1968-only thing on Chrysler convertibles. Did they have a name for the option?

I always liked the Chrysler Three-Hundred series....seems like seen less-often than Newport and New Yorker models. Struck me odd (at least in 'GM think' which I had then) that it was available in a four-door hardtop.

I liked the interiors--luxurious, but not panty-cloth like New Yorkers and other cars of that ilk.

I remember, also, Chrysler using gauges longer than the other members of the Big Three.

Did Chrysler use gauges in combination with warning lights? For some reason that is ringing a bell. That is the best of both worlds I think.

kyfdx

Someone might remember that I posted this Autocrat from my friend’s memorial service, two years ago.


I was out for a walk recently, and his 27 yr old son was driving it down the street, with a passenger! I was stunned. Not something you just hop in for a drive. And, like most kids his age, he never showed a lot of interest in the Brass Era cars, when he was younger.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I am pretty sure that was a 1968-only thing on Chrysler convertibles. Did they have a name for the option?

"Sportgrain", I think.

imidazol97

kyfdx said:

Someone might remember that I posted this Autocrat from my friend’s memorial service, two years ago.


I was out for a walk recently, and his 27 yr old son was driving it down the street, with a passenger! I was stunned. Not something you just hop in for a drive. And, like most kids his age, he never showed a lot of interest in the Brass Era cars, when he was younger.

I think I saw that on Monmouth a few years back. The two spare tires sticks with me. I might have a picture buried somewhere. Maybe same year I saw a Magnette there.

fintail

If I was lucky enough to inherit a brass era car, I'd definitely drive it.

Gauges - fintail has oil pressure, temperature, but only a light for the generator (along with parking brake and high beams). However, the original owner installed an aftermarket ammeter (put a hole in the dash), but it is a period gauge and actually looks fine. The owner's manual calls the temperature gauge a "tele-thermometer", which is a name directly from 1959.

kyfdx

imidazol97 said:

kyfdx said:

Someone might remember that I posted this Autocrat from my friend’s memorial service, two years ago.


I was out for a walk recently, and his 27 yr old son was driving it down the street, with a passenger! I was stunned. Not something you just hop in for a drive. And, like most kids his age, he never showed a lot of interest in the Brass Era cars, when he was younger.

I think I saw that on Monmouth a few years back. The two spare tires sticks with me. I might have a picture buried somewhere. Maybe same year I saw a Magnette there.

He didn't show much on Monmouth. Occasionally. I'd be stunned if he took that one down, though.

kyfdx

@imidazol97 The Magnette belonged to a different friend of mine. (still living, thankfully!)

sda

Mom’s 63 Olds Dynamic 88 was always a cold natured beast. When the engine was cold it was hard to start and was fussy warming up, often stalling when coming to a stop. Dad had it looked at several times, but no change. It had a Cold Light that glowed light green. As a 6-7 year old I would watch it with curiosity. When the engine finally warmed up the light would flicker 2-3 times and then turn off. Car ran fine once warm. The last car I saw a Cold Light was mom’s 69 Olds 98. That car ran much better when cold than the 63. My grandmother’s 68 Cutlass S, similar to Ab348’s Cutlass did not have a Cold Light. I wonder if Olds only put those in their full size beasts.

uplanderguy

A friend of mine just sent me this with his comment, "I must have lived too long":

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2000-honda-civic-si-auction-result-photos/?wc_mid=4035:19291&wc_rid=4035:1076571&_wcsid=5F38EB4024F1A174126522EAB2C8C7A99428C6DE81D71C55

I just finished a WWII book that reminded me, as this car did for some reason, that Hirohito was Japan's Emperor until 1989. That is mind-blowing to me.

The car certainly looks clean, but I don't know a single thing about them.

fintail

Some lucky late run Xers have extra money now. That car was a fairly big deal when new and has to be a nostalgia trip for many.

I love how the seller is in Renton - not too long ago, that thing would have been stolen in a hot minute parked on many Renton streets.

fintail

And for those who are in disbelief at the prices of some "modern" cars, rememeber, this is a thing too

Time moves on, and these are old cars now. Even that Civic is 20 years old.

Speaking of "modern" cars, Can't get this out of my head - usually not a fan of such colors, but it works so well here. Seller is sometimes optimistic with his cars, but I don't think this is insanely priced given the condition.

ab348

fintail said:

Speaking of "modern" cars, Can't get this out of my head - usually not a fan of such colors, but it works so well here. Seller is sometimes optimistic with his cars, but I don't think this is insanely priced given the condition.

Very distinctive car. The 2.24 rear axle ratio seems ridiculously low to me. Autobahn special?

uplanderguy

I know this isn't the right thread for this, but here is only one of two Edmunds places I look at and post.

People have waited a year for C8's; then production stopped due to Covid, and this happened at a factory-authorized dealership!

https://carbuzz.com/news/owner-furious-after-dealership-drops-c8-corvette-from-lift?fbclid=IwAR0DY4T1b2xh3A9qUzKuCq6Ze96gmUgg0cwrP3sY_N6N9iMRjse7qowOXow

explorerx4

You should read the comments in that Corvette story.
The owner makes some comments, which change the slant of the story.

andre1969

I noticed the 2.24:1 axle too, but then saw where it says (US: 2.47:1), so I'm guessing a lot of that text was either copied, or translated, from some other source, rather than a description of the car itself?

Still, I'm surprised that Benz would use something that tall. Domestic makers would usually take a 2.24 or so and use it with a relatively large engine, in lieu of a 4-speed overdrive automatic. For instance, Mopar started using something like a 2.24 in their 318 cars starting in 1981. It ended up causing problems with the transmission, putting a strain on the lower gears, so they had to change first and second gears to compensate.

I have a 1985 Consumer Guide that has a test of a Cutlass Supreme coupe with a 307 and a 3-speed automatic. It has the axle listed as a 2.14:1! I used to think that was a transposition error in the typing as they also tested a Regal with the 231, and it had a 2.41:1. But in later years I found out there was a 2.14:1 offered in some cars.

I think GM was sort of able to get away with that extra tall gearing, because the THM 200 used slightly quicker first and second gears than older transmission. I seem to recall first gear for the THM 200 was 2.74:1, while it was 2.48:1 on the old THM 400 and 2.52:1 on the THM350? Mopar had used a 2.45:1 first gear in the Torqueflite for ages, but with the extra tall differential, they went to a 2.74:1.

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

I know this isn't the right thread for this, but here is only one of two Edmunds places I look at and post.

People have waited a year for C8's; then production stopped due to Covid, and this happened at a factory-authorized dealership!

https://carbuzz.com/news/owner-furious-after-dealership-drops-c8-corvette-from-lift?fbclid=IwAR0DY4T1b2xh3A9qUzKuCq6Ze96gmUgg0cwrP3sY_N6N9iMRjse7qowOXow

As I stated in another topic, I'd be more inclined to blame Chevrolet for not ensuring that their dealers were well aware of the difference in the jacking points on the C8. Of course GM tends to use their customers as beta testers, so maybe they are extending that process to their dealer network.

ab348

roadburner said:

Of course GM tends to use their customers as beta testers, so maybe they are extending that process to their dealer network.

When I look at what's in your signature line, that statement is doubly hilarious. Are you related to andres3 by any chance?

uplanderguy

LOL!

"My '92 Neon isn't nearly the car my new Audi is!!!".

I feel quite sure there were C8-specific lift instructions, which obviously didn't happen here.

Funny to have read here before that problems due to suppliers aren't the fault of the automakers who test, purchase, and install their products, but a dealer screw-up is the fault of the manufacturer.

As always, people think what they want to think, and nothing anyone says ever changes that.

roadburner

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

Of course GM tends to use their customers as beta testers, so maybe they are extending that process to their dealer network.

When I look at what's in your signature line, that statement is doubly hilarious. Are you related to andres3 by any chance?

I don't hate GM cars, I just find anything other than the Cadillac V cars, the Camaro SS , and the Corvette to be painfully boring.

fintail

Most likely, yeah. It's a grey market car with the highest engine option (and cosmetic AMG trim) - it was designed to move. A Euro spec car then put out around 230 hp - a big deal for the era, and will probably top out around 140 mph. A fun period piece, probably comes with a Hall and Oates cassette tape.

I think the federalization then was little more than turn signal colors and rudimentary emissions stuff, That was a great time for Euro imports, before M-B realized how the golden rule works here, and bought the 25 year rule. Someone probably laid down around 55-60K for that car in 1983/84 dollars.

ab348 said:

Very distinctive car. The 2.24 rear axle ratio seems ridiculously low to me. Autobahn special?

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

LOL!

"My '92 Neon isn't nearly the car my new Audi is!!!".

I feel quite sure there were C8-specific lift instructions, which obviously didn't happen here.

Hell, it happens. I know a guy, who's maybe 3-4 years older than me, who worked at a GM dealership back in the mid/late 80's. I remember him mentioning that they dropped a Parisienne once. I can't remember if it fell off a lift, or if it fell down in one of those pits they use where they get under the car, without raising it up, to work under it.

Back when I had my '68 Dart, one time I had it in a tire shop, to get new tires on the rear, and they couldn't figure out how to get access to the rear tires. I had over-sized 225/70/R14s on the back, and when they put it on the lift, in the back the lift was raising it by the rear axle, rather than the sub-frame. I had to explain to them that on older cars like that, you had to raise it by the frame (or, sub-frame on a unitized car) and let the rear axle hang down, to get full access to the rear wheels.

Oh, and try explaining what a "left hand lug" or "reverse thread" lug is, to people nowadays. Hell, that's an adventure, in and of itself! Actually, that got me thinking...my '57 DeSoto originally had the left hand threads on the driver's side wheels, but since it came back from the mechanic, it now has the rear end from a '70-74 E-body (to get rid of those annoying rear brakes that needed a wheel puller) and it has front disc brakes from something like an F-body (Aspen/Volare) police car, so I guess if I ever need to change a tire, I'd better pay attention to that...it probably doesn't have reverse-thread lugs on it anywhere, any more.

I've also seen a picture floating around where something like a Tahoe/Yukon, or maybe a Suburban, had gotten lifted improperly, and it managed to rip the body from the frame!

imidazol97

roadburner said:

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

Of course GM tends to use their customers as beta testers, so maybe they are extending that process to their dealer network.

When I look at what's in your signature line, that statement is doubly hilarious. Are you related to andres3 by any chance?

I don't hate GM cars, I just find anything other than the Cadillac V cars, the Camaro SS , and the Corvette to be painfully boring.

Especially Buicks? LOL

sda

Instead of buying my 71 Vega GT for $495 in 77, in retrospect I should have bought the 71 Dart 2dr the dealer had. It was a reddish orange, black vinyl top, slant 6, auto, ps, ac (didn’t work) 90k, clean interior, vinyl top starting to dry up with, looked brittle. No dents, a wax job would have done wonders. I started it, sounded like the valves need adjusting. It was probably fine. It was priced at $850 which seemed a fortune more.

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

roadburner said:

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

Of course GM tends to use their customers as beta testers, so maybe they are extending that process to their dealer network.

When I look at what's in your signature line, that statement is doubly hilarious. Are you related to andres3 by any chance?

I don't hate GM cars, I just find anything other than the Cadillac V cars, the Camaro SS , and the Corvette to be painfully boring.

Especially Buicks? LOL

New Buicks? Yes; I could not imagine having to get behind the wheel of one every day- it would have to be at gunpoint.
That said, I would gladly own a GSX, Grand National, GNX, or another 1967 Riviera- like the one I bought for $5 in 1979.

tjc78

Depends on your needs. Right now we really need a large vehicle like the Enclave. Do I like driving it? No, not really but I do like that it swallows up my family and all the gear we need for a day at the beach with ease.

andre1969

To be honest, I don't think there's a Buick out there anymore that I'd really want to own, either, although at this point I think they're down to just crossovers. And if I wanted a crossover, I think I'd go for something like a Dodge Durango or Ford Explorer. Although to its credit, I don't think the new Enclave is bad; it just doesn't really do anything for me.

Similarly, the recently-discontinued Regal and LaCrosse don't seem like bad cars, but they just don't stir any desire in me to own one. If I was in the mood for a new(ish) car right now, I'd probably go for a Charger. Although, I do like the Impala.

I think the last Buick car that I really liked was the Lucerne, but I was always a bit worried about the engine choices. By that time, the 3.8 probably wasn't enough engine to move that much car, and I've always worried about the 4.6 Northstar, and its reliability/repair costs. The Buick 3.8 ultimately gave way to a 3.9 Chevy V6 which, if I'm not mistaken, is traceable all the way back to the old 2.8 Citation engine! It did have more power than the 3.8, but I don't know much about it. And, in later years, the Lucerne got facelifted, and I didn't care for the grille/headlight treatment, which seemed a bit overdone and ill-proportioned.

tjc78

I loved my 2012 LaCrosse. I had the upgraded suspension and it was no barge. It handled well while still riding nice. 300 HP to the front wheels with zero torque steer. Very quiet as well.

I drove the Lucerne when it came out. Nice car, but I preferred the Avalon at the time and I got that instead. My comments on the Lucerne and the weak engine choices (for the same reasons you just stated) here got me pretty well flamed back in the day. I’m sure the thread is still here somewhere. That was in early 2006.

andre1969

Didn't the Northstar engine also require premium fuel? I know they say that if you can't afford to put good fuel in it, you can't afford the car, but it does bug me a bit when my car needs a higher-octane, while comparable cars do just fine on 87 and give similar, or even better performance.

That second-generation Avalon was a pretty impressive car, too. I think I've seen road tests that put its 0-60 at around 6.6 seconds. I don't think any Lucerne was ever able to do that. The LaCrosse with the 3.6 looks pretty good, though. I did a quick search, and found 0-60 times around 6.4-6.6 seconds. And heck, I saw one quote, for a 2018 Avenir, listed at 5.6 seconds!

I've noticed that, as time goes by and I get used to faster and faster cars, instead of the faster car feeling like a big improvement, I notice that I soon get used to it and it just feels "normal". And then, when I have to drive something that's slower, that I never had an issue with before, suddenly it feels like a dog. I think my Ram is good for 0-60 in about 7 seconds, and my '03 Regal, about 8 seconds. But damn, what a difference that second makes! Still, the Ram just didn't feel like that big of a deal, a few months after I bought it and I got used to it. I wonder, if I ended up with a car that could do 0-60 in around 5-6 seconds, or even quicker, if eventually I'd just get used to it and get that same "meh" feeling about it?

tjc78

Yes I’m pretty sure it did require premium. The Avalon did not and offered better performance and FE. That Avalon surprised many a person at the stop light. Quick car for what is was.

roadburner

andre1969 said:

Didn't the Northstar engine also require premium fuel? I know they say that if you can't afford to put good fuel in it, you can't afford the car, but it does bug me a bit when my car needs a higher-octane, while comparable cars do just fine on 87 and give similar, or even better performance.

That second-generation Avalon was a pretty impressive car, too. I think I've seen road tests that put its 0-60 at around 6.6 seconds. I don't think any Lucerne was ever able to do that. The LaCrosse with the 3.6 looks pretty good, though. I did a quick search, and found 0-60 times around 6.4-6.6 seconds. And heck, I saw one quote, for a 2018 Avenir, listed at 5.6 seconds!

I've noticed that, as time goes by and I get used to faster and faster cars, instead of the faster car feeling like a big improvement, I notice that I soon get used to it and it just feels "normal". And then, when I have to drive something that's slower, that I never had an issue with before, suddenly it feels like a dog. I think my Ram is good for 0-60 in about 7 seconds, and my '03 Regal, about 8 seconds. But damn, what a difference that second makes! Still, the Ram just didn't feel like that big of a deal, a few months after I bought it and I got used to it. I wonder, if I ended up with a car that could do 0-60 in around 5-6 seconds, or even quicker, if eventually I'd just get used to it and get that same "meh" feeling about it?

My E24 M6 was the fastest car I had owned when I bought it in 1992. It was fast for its time- 0-60 in 6.0 seconds and a 1/4 mile time of 14.6 seconds. I shaved a few tenths off those numbers with a Dinan chip and a track pipe that replaced the catalytic converter. I then went to my 140 hp Club Sport, which was 2 seconds slower. I didn’t mind it as much because the CS was nearly 800 pounds lighter and much more nimble.
The Mazdaspeed 3 was about 0.5 seconds faster than the M6, but being FWD getting that power to the ground could be tricky at times.
I’d say that the acceleration of my M235i is about average for a modern performance car- a 0-60 time of 4.3 seconds and a 12.9 second 1/4 mile. What makes it fun is the torque delivery- maximum torque is available just off idle, so wheel spin can be even be coerced in third gear.
My wife’s X1 is certainly not quick by modern standards- even though its acceleration mirrors that of my old M6. How times change.

uplanderguy

RE.: Buick--I rented an Enclave for a week last December and liked it a lot. Quiet, which is a big thing for me, and comfortable for our group. And I think the styling, in and out, is better than the Japanese competition.

A female friend of mine just bought an Envision last week. I didn't even know what that was. She is loving it so far and either doesn't know or doesn't want to mention to me that it was built in China, LOL.

tjc78

Which generation Enclave? Was it the new 2018+ or the older style like mine?

Ours is extremely quiet. I think the laminated glass (which there is a lot of) has something to do with it.

xwesx

Seems like the "sport" discussion is long dead, so I apologize for spotty appearances. IIRC, the Chrysler vans with the 'sport" designation were the short-wheel-base versions. There were different trim levels in both SWB and LWB, but all SWB included "sport." Of course, that naming scheme was not necessarily consistent over the years. I'm thinking third and fourth generation models (1996-2007) here. And, I honestly cannot remember now if the wheel base was different on them, or if it was just the rear overhang that was different, sort of like the old "club wagon" versions of full-size vans way back when: You could opt for the 1/2 acre version or the full-acre version.

tjc78

The Caravan had different wheelbases for the standard and Grand.

fintail

I just have a memory of a "Sport" with plastic wheel covers,black bumpers etc - that screamed "base" to me, so it stuck.

My dad had a "full acre" Econoline around the time I started to drive - I didn't like that thing, no windows, and I was always afraid of cutting corners in it. I think I only drove it a couple times as it was eventually traded away.

xwesx said:

Seems like the "sport" discussion is long dead, so I apologize for spotty appearances. IIRC, the Chrysler vans with the 'sport" designation were the short-wheel-base versions. There were different trim levels in both SWB and LWB, but all SWB included "sport." Of course, that naming scheme was not necessarily consistent over the years. I'm thinking third and fourth generation models (1996-2007) here. And, I honestly cannot remember now if the wheel base was different on them, or if it was just the rear overhang that was different, sort of like the old "club wagon" versions of full-size vans way back when: You could opt for the 1/2 acre version or the full-acre version.

explorerx4

One of the neighbors broke out his convertible today.
Not quite ready for a road trip.

tjc78

I like that style. BBS wheels look great on it too.

kyfdx

tjc78 said:

I like that style. BBS wheels look great on it too.

I came thisclose to buying a white '89 in the summer of 1990. Someone bought it while I was looking at it, and two months later, I bought an '84 911 Targa.

uplanderguy

Which generation Enclave? Was it the new 2018+ or the older style like mine?

Ours is extremely quiet. I think the laminated glass (which there is a lot of) has something to do with it.

I'd say probably a '19, as it was a rental at the San Luis Obispo airport.

Tire noise bugs me, but that vehicle had none if very little. We've had this discussion before but my '08 Cobalt XFE was quieter, and idled like it wasn't running, better than more-expensive cars I've owned of-late.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Tire noise bugs me, but that vehicle had none if very little. We've had this discussion before but my '08 Cobalt XFE was quieter, and idled like it wasn't running, better than more-expensive cars I've owned of-late.

When an upscale car with a quality reputation is a little too quiet, it's because it's "sophisticated". When a more mundane car is a bit too quiet, it's more like "wait, did the sumbitch stall out again?"

roadburner

I don't like hearing tire noise in a straight line, but I like the to hear a little noise when the tires are cornering- it gives me a bit more information about whats going on at the contact patches.
As for engine noise, in the 2er I can run silent in Comfort mode or get some nice burbles and pops in Sport mode.