I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

I must have been subconsciously blocking it, but it just came back to me...my stepdad's mother bought a new Chevette, either an '86 or '87. I don't remember much about it, except that it was red, and a 2-door. I can't remember how long she had it, as we didn't see her that often. She lived in upstate Pennsylvania, and was one of those old fashioned types that didn't like to drive far from home.

uplanderguy

I suppose most of us have heard this already, but the introduction date Ford has chosen for the new Bronco is O.J. Simpson's birthday.

Ford Marketing Chief: "D'oh!"

andre1969

At least it wasn't June 17th...the date of the infamous low-speed Bronco-chase!

uplanderguy

andre, ever go to Carlisle? I've been there a handful of times in the past 35 or so years, although not recently. Interesting article. A friend from the Syracuse, NY area is there now (staying last night in Gettysburg--which I love). He told me "Maybe you'll see me on the news tomorrow night".

https://cumberlink.com/news/local/communities/carlisle/department-of-health-sues-carlisle-events-over-spring-carlisle/article_16019b2b-1a0e-5a9c-bac1-c6a272446eda.html?fbclid=IwAR1mrk2ZmpA4Tz3ks2vFYYTTatvmntwrQ9xb2g1Emf3MFHmVIAW5HvzGR2g

ab348

We were discussing the Ford external keypad entry feature here the other day. I had no idea that GM offered such a thing as an accessory. I have never seen this on a GM vehicle ever.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/11/gm-keyless-entry-keypad-gets-new-design-for-2020-model-year/

tjc78

I have never seen that on any GM vehicle. It's an obvious Ford knockoff, but if I'm getting another GM I'd look into it.

andre1969

Yeah, I normally go for the Spring show, Ford, GM, and Mopar shows, and the fall show. I'm planning on going up for the day this Saturday, which is when the Spring show got postponed to. However, I've been watching the news too, just in case it gets closed down. Plus, they're calling for rain and scattered thunderstorms all day. Carlisle isn't much fun in the rain.

explorerx4

The keypad was originally reported on that site in October 2019, so I don't think it has been available very long.
Interesting that it is only compatible with a few models.

stickguy

It replaced an older version that looked very JC Whitney.

About the only time I could see using it is at the beach, so no need to take my key fob with me onto the sand. And occasionally I need to get into car in garage or driveway when it is locked and I don’t have my key on me, but not very often!

uplanderguy

Anybody besides me think pushbutton start is not what it's cracked up to be? When I bought my '17 Cruze I looked for one without it; when we bought our '19 Equinox, they all had it. I think I'm far-more likely to leave the vehicle running with pushbutton start, when I leave the car, and if I have to have the fob in the car, I may as well have it in the ignition, as opposed to it laying around on a seat, console cubby, whatever. Another thing that is hyped beyond real practicality IMHO.

ab348

I dunno - on my ATS the fob never leaves my pocket because it has proximity locking/unlocking along with the pushbutton start. I've never put the fob anywhere else inside the car. I can see the relative uselessness of having a start/stop pushbutton if you still needed to use the fob to lock and unlock the doors though.

stickguy

If you forget to push the button to turn it off, isn’t it just as likely you forget to turn off the key? In either case, you really should notice the car is still running!

But the real difference is, the fob stays in my pocket. No need to ever fish it out.

But, trying not to be too sexist, but the real target audience was women (like my wife) that carry around big overstuffed pocketbooks. The fob migrates to the bottom, never to be seen again. If I brought home a car for her that required her to fish out the fob, and push buttons and use the key, she would kill me!

uplanderguy

It's automatic to me to pull the (highly-visible) key out. Plus, I usually have my other car's keys in my pocket when I drive the wife's Equinox.

I did come out from a store once and saw I'd left the Equinox running. Such is its smooth and quiet idle, although I detest the tire noise in it when moving, LOL. One other time, my wife was with me and said "Are you going to shut the car off?". Never did that once with key ignition.

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

Anybody besides me think pushbutton start is not what it's cracked up to be? When I bought my '17 Cruze I looked for one without it; when we bought our '19 Equinox, they all had it. I think I'm far-more likely to leave the vehicle running with pushbutton start, when I leave the car, and if I have to have the fob in the car, I may as well have it in the ignition, as opposed to it laying around on a seat, console cubby, whatever. Another thing that is hyped beyond real practicality IMHO.

It's like anything else. Once you get used to it, you don't think about it.

Mostly, it works well with the no key systems. You leave the fob in your pocket. You grab the handle and the door unlocks automatically. When you get out of the car, you put your finger on the handle and the door locks. It won't lock with the car running.

It's a bigger deal for women, because they don't have to go searching their purse for the fob, when trying to enter the car. The locking/unlocking is automatic.

It is actually all about practicality.

explorerx4

My vehicles honk the horn several times if the key exits the car with it running.
It's pretty hard to miss that reminder.

tjc78

I'll be honest... the keyless start is just OK, but the real convenience is the true keyless entry. I love walking up to the car and just pulling the door handle. The Volvo also has the feature where you wave your foot under the car the trunk will open, I prefer that to the Hyundai that would open about 5 seconds after you stand there with the fob in your pocket.

@stickguy
I sometimes lock the keys in the car and use the app to unlock the doors. It works but the keypad is still easier than pulling out the phone, starting the app, putting in the pin and then waiting the 10 seconds or so for the car to unlock. There are times where the app logs you out as well, so then you have that step.... first world problems for sure!

stickguy

And of course, remembering the PW for the app!

Why I got the sonata, first thing I did was turn off the auto trunk opener. Drove me nuts.

uplanderguy

For me, it's the classic someone deciding what everyone wants--not unlike dropping the color choices from sixteen to six or whatever.

texases

My only concern is that some cars seem to drain their battery if the fob is close by, like in the house near the garage. I've seen that reported on some Hondas.

andre1969

When I first started hearing about push-button start, my first thought was the old circa 1969 Simplicity lawn tractor my Grandparents had. You had to set the choke, turn the key to the on position, and then press and hold this big metal button/bulb, as the engine cranked and, after a few seconds, fired up.

So it seemed like a big step backward to me, initially. But, I imagine that like most things, once I got used to it, it would seem like second nature. I do like the idea of not having to dig around in my pocket for the fob. Or worse, if I get into the car/truck and forgot to take the key/fob out (such as if I'd left it unlocked), it's usually a pain to have to dig it out of my pocket.

So, I could see the appeal of just having the fob in your pocket, having the door unlock automatically, and being able to just hit the button and have it start up.

fintail

I'm to the point where a physical metal key seems like a quaint vintage thing. When I drive my mom's Camry, I think "it's just like the fintail!". MB got into the fob and push button thing early, using fobs as keys since the 90s, and push button start showing up as an S-class option around 2000. I enjoy the proximity system, never having to fish out my keys if my hands are full, and the foot-operated trunk or rear hatch can be handy too (although sometimes of varying sensitivity which can be irksome). Local dealer also replaces fob batteries for free. The fobs may be the drawback, as they can be quite expensive to replace.

Regarding leaving the car running, never had the issue, as I suppose a diesel or V6 makes enough noise to be heard. I recall reading some Prius owners would park the car "on" in electric mode, which would eventually drain the battery enough to engage the engine, and there'd be carbon monoxide poisoning.

fintail

I've always assumed that was just to save a little money, savings not passed on to the consumer of course.

uplanderguy said:

For me, it's the classic someone deciding what everyone wants--not unlike dropping the color choices from sixteen to six or whatever.

andre1969

fintail said:

I've always assumed that was just to save a little money, savings not passed on to the consumer of course.

uplanderguy said:

For me, it's the classic someone deciding what everyone wants--not unlike dropping the color choices from sixteen to six or whatever.

And to be fair, when the auto makers do see fit to offer a color that's out of the ordinary, there's usually not much demand for it. For instance, on the final-gen Impala, Chevy offered it in a really pretty light blue, which would be my first choice. But, they're not that common, and I think they might have dropped it in later years.

Green is usually resale suicide on more upper-end models, although every once in awhile I'll see a really dark hue that looks good.

Back in '99, when I bought my '00 Intrepid, I had the dealer search the area for a green one. At that time, they actually offered two shades of green. One was a light, grayish green, close to what I'd call "sage green". It was pretty innocuous. The other was a deep, dark, rich green. Maybe "Sequoia", "British Racing Green", or something along those lines. They did a search for the whole area, and only came up with two of them, that were the light grayish-green. Then they asked me what would it take to get into the silver '00 I just test drove. I said throw in a CD changer (it only had a tape player), they said done, and I said "deal".

I didn't mind the silver at the time. Back then, even though it was really becoming common, it didn't seem like it had been done to death. But then, that was also nearly 21 years ago. It also looked nice, because the plastic wheelcovers were also silver, so it gave it that look similar to when auto makers would sometimes color-key the hubcaps to the body color. And it went well with the blackout trim around the windows.

uplanderguy

I enjoyed when GM (and I assume the others) started offering two-tones again, in '77. I was a big fan of that, although did tire of seeing the tape pinstripes between shades disappearing from high-pressure car washes.

texases

GM pickups and Suburbans continued the two-tone treatment well into the '90s. We considered it for our '95 Suburban, went with solid instead.

tjc78

andre1969 said:

fintail said:

I've always assumed that was just to save a little money, savings not passed on to the consumer of course.

uplanderguy said:

For me, it's the classic someone deciding what everyone wants--not unlike dropping the color choices from sixteen to six or whatever.

And to be fair, when the auto makers do see fit to offer a color that's out of the ordinary, there's usually not much demand for it. For instance, on the final-gen Impala, Chevy offered it in a really pretty light blue, which would be my first choice. But, they're not that common, and I think they might have dropped it in later years.

Green is usually resale suicide on more upper-end models, although every once in awhile I'll see a really dark hue that looks good.

Back in '99, when I bought my '00 Intrepid, I had the dealer search the area for a green one. At that time, they actually offered two shades of green. One was a light, grayish green, close to what I'd call "sage green". It was pretty innocuous. The other was a deep, dark, rich green. Maybe "Sequoia", "British Racing Green", or something along those lines. They did a search for the whole area, and only came up with two of them, that were the light grayish-green. Then they asked me what would it take to get into the silver '00 I just test drove. I said throw in a CD changer (it only had a tape player), they said done, and I said "deal".

I didn't mind the silver at the time. Back then, even though it was really becoming common, it didn't seem like it had been done to death. But then, that was also nearly 21 years ago. It also looked nice, because the plastic wheelcovers were also silver, so it gave it that look similar to when auto makers would sometimes color-key the hubcaps to the body color. And it went well with the blackout trim around the windows.

My 93 Taurus was silver. It certainly was much less common then. I actually liked it.

When I got the ‘17 Elantra the wife actually liked it in silver so that is what I got. I would have rather had white. I’m not sure I’ll ever own another silver car.

fintail

Good points. That probably explains why MB, which offers a wider palette than most, has colors that come and go all the time - if it doesn't sell, someone pushes a button, and it is replaced. Of course, these are usually colors (light blues) that I like. MB has phased out a couple of these after short terms in the past decade alone.

Also maybe being seen as out of style, or trying to set a new trend, can have influence. Those teals and hunter greens that seemed to be all the rage came and went pretty fast, and silver has been the new beige on some models for awhile - a silver Camry might be invisible to radar. And as you say, silver can be good, it works on some cars, and is easy to maintain - I keep away from dark colors unless the car or deal is really rare and spectacular.

andre1969 said:

And to be fair, when the auto makers do see fit to offer a color that's out of the ordinary, there's usually not much demand for it. For instance, on the final-gen Impala, Chevy offered it in a really pretty light blue, which would be my first choice. But, they're not that common, and I think they might have dropped it in later years.

Green is usually resale suicide on more upper-end models, although every once in awhile I'll see a really dark hue that looks good.

Back in '99, when I bought my '00 Intrepid, I had the dealer search the area for a green one. At that time, they actually offered two shades of green. One was a light, grayish green, close to what I'd call "sage green". It was pretty innocuous. The other was a deep, dark, rich green. Maybe "Sequoia", "British Racing Green", or something along those lines. They did a search for the whole area, and only came up with two of them, that were the light grayish-green. Then they asked me what would it take to get into the silver '00 I just test drove. I said throw in a CD changer (it only had a tape player), they said done, and I said "deal".

I didn't mind the silver at the time. Back then, even though it was really becoming common, it didn't seem like it had been done to death. But then, that was also nearly 21 years ago. It also looked nice, because the plastic wheelcovers were also silver, so it gave it that look similar to when auto makers would sometimes color-key the hubcaps to the body color. And it went well with the blackout trim around the windows.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I enjoyed when GM (and I assume the others) started offering two-tones again, in '77. I was a big fan of that, although did tire of seeing the tape pinstripes between shades disappearing from high-pressure car washes.

Yeah, the two-toning definitely worked well with the crisp, angular designs. Most of the designs from the 60's, and earlier parts of the 70's, didn't lend themselves well to two-toning. About the most you could get away with was a contrasting color on the roof, usually done in vinyl.

I couldn't see any '71-76 GM B/C body, for instance, looking good in a two-tone, other than a roof contrast. However, I could picture a pre-downsized 70's Mercury or Lincoln, or maybe a '74-78 Imperial/Newport/New Yorker pulling it off, as they were a bit more squared-off, and seemed like they had sharper creases, than the big GM cars. Or a '74-77 C-body Fury/Monaco. I also can't picture a '73-78 Galaxie/LTD looking good in a 2-tone, even though they'd have some commonality with the Mercury.

ab348

andre1969 said:

Green is usually resale suicide on more upper-end models, although every once in awhile I'll see a really dark hue that looks good.

Much to my surprise Cadillac is offering a dark green metallic paint of the 2020 CT5 and CT4 sedans, called "Evergreen" Those are hard enough to sell in common colors, so I imagine that will be really very rare.

On the two-tone topic I was surprised to learn recently that Ford still offers a two-tone of a sort on certain models of the F-150, with a contrasting color (usually metallic gray) on the lower body.

andre1969

ab348 said:

Much to my surprise Cadillac is offering a dark green metallic paint of the 2020 CT5 and CT4 sedans, called "Evergreen" Those are hard enough to sell in common colors, so I imagine that will be really very rare.

On the two-tone topic I was surprised to learn recently that Ford still offers a two-tone of a sort on certain models of the F-150, with a contrasting color (usually metallic gray) on the lower body.

The Caddy looks pretty nice, in my opinion...


I think I'd park it in a nicer spot in the parking lot to do a photo shoot, though.

uplanderguy

I gotta say, I like it a lot! I like the styling of the car too...no ridiculous grille designs like a particular unnamed maker, LOL.

ab, better get one before that color's discontinued!

fintail

That car definitely looks better in dark colors, hides the C-pillar.

sda

That forest green is a little lighter that the color we had on mom’s 76 Cutlass Supreme wagon. It had a light tan with darker contrasting medium brown dash and carpet. I thought it looked sharp, just like this Cadillac.

ab348

fintail said:

That car definitely looks better in dark colors, hides the C-pillar.

Yeah, I seriously doubt one of those in any color will ever be in my driveway.

stickguy

nice color on that caddy

explorerx4

Picture was definitely taken to hide the C pillar, but other than that I like it, too.

andre1969

sda said:

That forest green is a little lighter that the color we had on mom’s 76 Cutlass Supreme wagon. It had a light tan with darker contrasting medium brown dash and carpet. I thought it looked sharp, just like this Cadillac.

I found this '76 Cutlass coupe for sale, in dark green...good LORD that's a gorgeous color!
https://buy.motorious.com/vehicles/111614/1976-oldsmobile-cutlass-supreme

If I could find a nice condition '76-77 LeMans in that color, I think I'd be tempted to swap mine out!

ab348

That color is code 49, Ditzler # 2752. GM imaginatively termed it "Dark Green Poly".

uplanderguy

Sometimes the Ditzler charts call it something different than the brochure, but this I know:

In the '70's, Caddy would've called it something like "Norwegian Wood Firemist".

uplanderguy

I found this '76 Cutlass coupe for sale, in dark green...good LORD that's a gorgeous color!
https://buy.motorious.com/vehicles/111614/1976-oldsmobile-cutlass-supreme

Boy, that is pretty. I really don't remember many Chevys that year in that color, and back then, GM shared most all of the colors among divisions, although each division had their own name for the color.

I remember a lot of those lime green '76's, which is bad on a large car IMHO although I'll concede to sort-of liking the white vinyl interior with lime green carpet, dash, and belts.

I'm not certain about this, but whenever I see a body side molding with a vinyl insert that matches the vinyl roof, I wonder if the molding is aftermarket. I do remember the optional wide side moldings on Monte Carlos and I believe Grand Prixs of that vintage with matching inserts, but the narrow moldings (like this Cutlass) having black inserts no matter the roof and pinstripe color. That said, the white looks nice on this car.

stickguy

Stunning color combo. Nice looking car. I’ve always been a fan of dark green. Had a few. My 1991 626 was forest green. Over tan looks sharp.

andre1969

Looking at the color charts, it seems like GM's marketing was running out of imagination...provided those Ditzler colors are what GM originally called them. Olds in particular seemed to get a bit simple. The #2811 "Red Poly" on an Olds is what Pontiac called "Firethorn". Interestingly though, Pontiac called that same dark green "Dark Green Poly".

There was a frosty green that GM came out with for '77 that looked pretty sharp, too. It was close to the "Jadestone" they offered in the early 80's, but not quite. Here's a pic of a Cutlass in that tone, in #2964, erotically named "Medium Green Poly"...

uplanderguy

Just wingin' it here, but I bet looking at the brochure, the colors would be called something more dramatic. I do remember Chevy going to plain-jane names by that time in the brochures, however. I guess I understand why Ditzler wouldn't list all the various division names for the same color.

Did you notice that '77 Cutlass S has the Supreme front end, a bit of sleight-of-hand?

uplanderguy

Well, apparently Olds was using pretty generic names by that time, too--brochure calls that green "Medium Green Metallic":

https://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/olds/olds77/bilder/26.jpg

They still list a "Firethorn Red Metallic" in that '77 brochure.

I remember Chevy called it that as well (maybe even without the 'red'). When my Dad bought our bright red '77 Impala coupe, there was a similar car in Firethorn and with the 350 4-barrel in the showroom, which is what I wanted, but Dad didn't see why it would've been $200 more.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Did you notice that '77 Cutlass S has the Supreme front end, a bit of sleight-of-hand?

It does? I just googled a few pics for the '77 Cutlasses, and all the "S" models had that same grille, with the bolder vertical bars and wider openings. The Supreme had a finer texture, with maybe 4 or 5 bold vertical bars, with a bunch of finer ones in between.

One style that looks a bit odd to me is the Cutlass S, with the opera windows. It has the more fastback roofstyle, of the triangular window coupe but with opera windows instead. Something about the more rounded roof clashes a bit with the squared-off body work, and at certain angles I think it makes the rear look really stubby. Like this, for example...



I think it's still reasonably attractive. Although, when I see it at this angle, I can almost see what the stylists were shooting for, when they went for the '78 Aerobacks, and why they might have thought that something hatchback-looking would sell.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Sometimes the Ditzler charts call it something different than the brochure, but this I know:

In the '70's, Caddy would've called it something like "Norwegian Wood Firemist".

Few of the 1976 GM brochures show color charts, but Pontiac and Buick still do. Pontiac called it Dark Green Poly, but Buick termed it Constitution Green (though the Ditzler chart doesn't call it that, sticking to the Dark Green Poly name).

uplanderguy

andre, I was thinking the Cutlass S had a sloped grille. Maybe that was '76 only.

https://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/for-sale/1976/Cutlass-Little-Rock.

EDIT: I see the '77 S had the same front end as the Supreme--no slantback look. Much better! If I could get a '77 Cutlass S with the triangular quarter windows, and maybe a notchback front seat, that would be the Colonnade I'd choose! I think only the Buick Century with triangular windows could still be had with a notchback seat, but I think it has a slantback front which I wasn't crazy about.

I am not a fan of the fastback roof with an opera window, although apparently that's what the public wanted. Made a claustrophobic-enough back seat even more so IMHO, not to mention an enormous blind spot there.

I honestly quit paying attention to the Colonnades for '77, as at the time I couldn't figure why someone would want one of those over the new 'big' cars. I get it now, but then I was smitten with the big cars.

kyfdx

I like that green Cutlass.

They had a really bright green metallic (usually paired with a white vinyl landau roof) that I thought was really cool, about that time. Saw it more on the Chevys, though.

andre1969

kyfdx said:

I like that green Cutlass.

They had a really bright green metallic (usually paired with a white vinyl landau roof) that I thought was really cool, about that time. Saw it more on the Chevys, though.

I think that one was a '76-only color. Pontiac called it "Limefire" or something like that. It's one of those loud colors that I think looks better on a smaller, or sportier car, but I've seen some bigger cars that wear it better than you might think. And yeah, it looks great with a white top!

uplanderguy

Worst car to have that lime green color (IMHO): '76 Impala or Caprice Landau coupe. Not a good-looking car to begin with; enormous; then paint it that screaming color; and the wheelcovers are that color!