I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

stickguy

I saw one of them yesterday too. Always liked them.

stickguy

On James st (I think), in the village in NYC (near Washington square park), a Desoto Fireflite 4 door. Big honkin fins on that baby. Looked totally out of place where it was on a small side street.

 

Actually looked to be in nice shape. Not a show car, but much nicer than a 40 YO beater. 2 tone silver/gray.

fintail

Ebay time:

 

It really doesn't look like Christine, and the details are acceptable at best, but it's still not a bad looking car

 

Now this is a beast

 

People are bringing these to the states now I guess

 

I've heard these are just a joy to own

 

Wow so strippo, probably one of the lowest spec postwar cars...and it just sold

 

I wonder how legal this is

 

I think something like this could make a fun toy

 

Really pretty late Pierce

 

Can't be many of these on the road anymore

 

Stunning Packard woody...I'd take it

 

Car with nice patina and interesting history

 

Better than average money pit 6.9 with interesting long-winded description

andys120

If that 6.9 is any less a money pit than the others but if I were I Mercedes collector w serious money I 'd have to have one like it. I'm particularly fond of that generation of the S-Class. What's the W-# designator, Fin?

 

It was that generation that propelled M-B to the top of the luxury market IMO. I recall getting back-to-back rides in a 350SE and a Rolls Shadow and thinking the Benz was a real car while the "Royce" was more of an English club room on wheels.

fintail

Certainly not a money pit lik a 6.3 or a 600, but I've heard some engine and suspension components are notoriously expensive on that car. If I had serious money I wouldn't mind having a mint 6.9 and a 6.3 as well

 

It's a W116, and you are very right about it establishing MB as the top of the big car lux market. That was the first stereotypical S class, although some MB people see the S class as going back to the 6cyl fintails.

andre1969

I was browsing the used car list of the Toyota dealer where my uncle dropped his Corolla off at for servicing. They have some cars listed that just seem really odd for this type of dealership, such as...

 

1983 Buick Century

1984 Buick Century Estate wagon

1985 Buick Regal

1985 Chrysler 5th Ave

1988 Dodge Daytona

1988 Ford Taurus

1983 Ford Escort

1985 Honda Prelude

1989 Hyundai Excel

1983 Lincoln Town Car

1984 Olds Cutlass Ciera Cruiser

1983 Olds Cutlass Supreme

1981 Toyota Tercel

1984 Toyota van

 

This list sounds like something you might be more likely to find at a Mom & Pop lot or a Park & Sell, than a big Toyota dealer!

 

I'm going to pick up my uncle's Corolla for him this afternoon though, so maybe I'll have to check a few of 'em out, like that '85 Regal...

jrosasmc

Hey Andre- Be sure to also check out that '85 Chrysler 5th Avenue, it may be inviting you!

lemko

...it's inviting me! In what kind of condition was that Fifth Avenue? Mine was a beautiful car when I owned it.

jrosasmc

I saw a great-looking car while browsing Ebay this morning but I know nothing about it...it's a '65 Alfa Romeo 2600 roadster. This snazzy red car looked like it had a straight-6 engine, which I didn't know that Alfa roadsters of that era could have. Anybody know anything about them?

andys120

were imported in both Bertone Coupe and Pininfarina Spider

styles that shared styling similar to their smaller, sportier Giulietta cousins in the late 50s and early 60s (a Golden Age for Alfas). The DOHC straight six 2600s were Gran Turismo cars rather than pure sports cars.

 

Not many were made or imported to the US and they were not considered a sales success, nor or they highly prized by vintage Alfa enthusiasts.

 

 http://www.carsfromitaly.com/alfaromeo/index.html

 

(just click on "models" and go to "2600" for more--I've never seen a 2600Berlina which is quite handsome IMO. ).

bumpy

ZAP is importing the Smart car (and betting that DCX won't offer them in the US market for a while).

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2645586

(the link will probably die in a few days)

 

As for the Skyline, it's probably legal but if you want to be sure you could call up Motorex with the VIN listed and see what they've got on it.

fintail

That used car list looks like something you would have seen 15 or 20 years ago. Weird.

 

I like that Alfa 2600 Berlina too...but I'm a weirdo, I like sedans. Affordable taste, anyway.

 

A friend of mine just got back from a long trip to England and brought me a big stack of Auto Traders and similar rags. Man there's some odd stuff there...and some really awesome stuff too. Apparently it is very easy to ship Japanese market cars to the UK, there are tons of them listed. And of course every weird Euro you can imagine.

andre1969

until late last nite, so my uncle had one of my roommates drive him up to the Toyota dealer. Damn. And I was looking forward to seeing their retro section of used cars!

kyfdx

'03 body style..

 

Regular cab, short-bed.

 

Really strange to see one of these.. I guess these are the cheapies they advertise at $12,999.

 

It is amazing how small it looks for a full-size pickup.

danf5

Andy S. wrote "were imported in both Bertone Coupe and Pininfarina Spider styles that shared styling similar to their smaller, sportier Giulietta cousins in the late 50s .."

 

Farina spider? Surely you meant Touring. The 2600 roadster has very much the same shell that Touring provided for the iron block Alfa 2000 (I had one), Lancia Flaminia, and Maserati 3500 GT. There's at least one 2600 roadster up on eBay now, if you look at the photos you'll see Touring badges all over it.

 

The 2600 coupe has a Bertone shell that was rather like a blown up Giulia/Giuletta coupe.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

andys120

Surely you meant Touring. My bad, glanced at quickly, the 2600 Spiders bear a resemblance to the Pf-bodied Giulietta Spiders especially in front. Now that I think of it I believe 2600s were Touring-bodied.

Mr_Shiftright

The 2000 and 2600 are nice leisurely highway cars but are clumsy and slow and notorious rust buckets. I have never in my life seen one that wasn't rusted (and/or repaired). Also hard to get parts for. Not a good choice for an open Alfa, might be fun if you could score a cheapo sedan version. Basically a money pit with the only upsides being rarity and comfort.

toomanyfumes

Chevette in perfect condition.Being driven here in the Wisconsin winter. Saw it yesterday. I actually broke out laughing, then felt bad when the older man driving it made eye contact with me. He obviously spent a alot of time to keep it in that condition.

jlawrence01

If you can keep a Chevette running for 25 years, that is not a bad return on the original investment which was about $6,500-7,000 OTD.

 

While it took about a lifetime to make it to 70 mph in that vehicle, in some ways, I liked it a lot. There was very little that went wrong in the vehicle and it was a simple car to repair.

 

One of the local Dodge dealers had one on the lot (an '86) for $750 recently.

kyfdx

Chevette.. would have been closer to $4000 or less, I think..

 

I bought a '77 Mustang Cobra II that only stickered for $4600...

 

I'd say if the guy has been constantly accelerating since he bought the Chevette, he still isn't up to 70 MPH yet..

ghulet

I seem to remember our 78 Pontiac Sunbird new(fairly loaded for its ilk, automatic, cassette, V6, air, alloys) being around $6k, and thinking that was a lot of money. Inflation on car prices back then was pretty out-of-control, but still, I'd imagine the most 'loaded' Chevette back then couldn't have been more than $5k.

jlawrence01

I don't think so ... not with AT.

 

You could hit 70 mph .. did it once (down a mountain).

fintail

AT Chevette tested in my 81 Consumer Guide $7700+

kyfdx

That is nuts... My girlfriend bought a brand new Honda Civic in '81 and it only MSRPed for $6300. Of course, they were selling for $500 over MSRP, but still...

 

That Chevette might be an all-time "worst buy" in a new car.

Kirstie_H

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

 



 

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

 

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

 

kirstie_h

Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

fintail

The Consumer Guide I have mentions that the Chevette need many options to come to the same spec that many imports had standard. That might account for the price.

 

Was GM into incentives then like it is now? That might have cut the price to Civic levels.

kyfdx

Maybe 10% off MSRP at that time.. NO rebates.. Chrysler started that later, I think..

fintail

Must have been a good time at GM, even with the questionable products.

 

Yesterday I saw a nice and obviously restored 63 Ford Galaxie notchback, the hardtop that existed before the fastback replaced it midway through 63. It was a nice blue, had deluxe wheel covers, etc, but the whitewalls were too wide, maybe 2.5".

andys120

replace the Notchback on the Galaxie tudor or was it sold along side it?

andre1969

the Chevette didn't start getting cut in price until around '84 or '85. In 1981 with the fuel crisis, the Chevette and anything like it was a very hot seller. I think by swan-song 1987 they were down to about $5100 base price, as pressure was put on them by Hyundai and Yugo.

 

I think my Mom's 1980 Malibu coupe was something like $6700-7000 total, with tax and freight (she transferred the tags from her '75 LeMans). I'm sure that the automatic, power steering, and power brakes were standard by that time. However, air conditioning, an AM/FM radio, and tinted windshield were not.

 

Prices really shot up fast in the early 80's. My grandparents bought an '82 Malibu Classic wagon for something like $11000. And it was just a V-6, crank windows, nothing overly special. It did have adhesive ploodgrain on the side that actually looked attractive on the midnight blue paint. And it had a few things my '80 coupe didn't, like tilt and cruise. And it wasn't an upper level trimline, as ALL Malibus in '82 were Malibu Classics!

fintail

I always thought the notchback Galaxie was replaced by the fastback, as I often see fastbacks described as 1963 1/2. I prefer the fastback design...the notchback seemed to be a carryover of the 60-61 design, and was kind of boring compared to the fastback, which seemed to be the beginning of musclecar styling. My first car was a 66 Galaxie hardtop/fastback, so maybe I am biased...although I look back now and see that it wasn't the awesome car I remember it to be.

 

Today I have seen a decent Datsun 510 sedan, and a sound original looking bone stock plain jane (small hubcaps, very little chrome) 57 Ford 2 door post, in red and white.

bumpy

Grandpa bought a Citation in April 1979 (he saved the invoice and the window sticker) for $6500, if I remember correctly. That one was a V6, auto, with some other options including the Cinnabar! (GM seemed pretty excited about that one, and made a big deal about how they weren't charging extra for seats and window glass.) Grandpa didn't splurge for the FM radio or the 8-track player, so I had to live with that wholly useless vertical-profile AM radio when I inherited the car.

 

And to keep this slightly on-topic, I saw a two-tone blue diesel Chevette *and* a hatchback diesel Omni the same day about a month ago.

andre1969

I'm gonna take a pic with the digital camera, but last nite I saw TWO blue Chevette 2-doors parked at the curb, one right behind the other. Someone either has a very odd fetish, or doesn't learn from their mistakes! ;-)

debaser853

"I had to live with that wholly useless vertical-profile AM radio when I inherited the car."

 

Ha! I remember that from a friend's Citation, or as we called it so cleverly in our high school days, the "sh**tation." He ended up having to put a cassette stereo in the glove box...

 

Did your car also have the worthless single speaker in the center of the dash?

andre1969

that's a bad flashback, the single speaker radio! My 1980 Malibu had an AM/FM radio with one speaker mounted in the center of the dash top. One of the first things I learned to do to a car was change the oil. I think the second thing I learned how to do was put in a stereo system!

 

But then I went from that to something even more archaic: a '69 Dart with an AM-only radio! Thankfully though, even back then, they had the foresight to design the rear package shelf so that you could mount two 6x9 speakers. Up front was a different story though. Just one speaker in the middle of the metal part of the dash top. I ended up just sitting the front speakers under the front seats.

lemko

...station wagon also had an AM-only "Sonomatic" radio with the cool "BUICK" on the pushbuttons. I put an aftermarket stereo under the dash to preserve the original appearance of the instrument panel. I had two speakers in wooden boxes mounted on the wheel wells in the back

andre1969

when DID they first start putting 6x9" speakers in the backs of cars, anyway? My '57 DeSoto has the cutouts for them in the metal bracing underneath the cardboard-like material of the rear window shelf. However, I don't think I've ever seen a car that old with dual rear speakers, at least not from the factory. I have seen them, though, where they'd put a single speaker in the back. Often they'd put it behind a metal grille that was actually styled into the center of the back seat.

andys120

The AM radio my '66 TR came with had only one speaker and it was mounted under the glovebox and aimed straight at the floor. I unscrewed it from there and remounted it between the seats. Eventually I installed AM/FM but not stereo.

kyfdx

The car I learned to drive on.. came with an AM/8-track stereo... that's right... stereo, but no FM.

kyfdx

'82 Honda Accord hatchback.. AM/FM Mono.. single speaker.

jaserb

Now, the far superior "Citation II" (1984-1985, I think?) had a redesigned dashboard with a horizontal stereo. My brother had an '85 with the 2.8 V6 and a 3 speed auto. At least, it was a 3 speed at one point. By the time we got rid of it it wouldn't go into 2nd gear, so you'd have to rev the whee out of it in first and then let it drop into third. It was really fun when you got on the gas a little too hard at or near its top speed of 70ish. The dash would start shaking violently at about 62, so we didn't often get it much past that. Anyway, it would try to kick down into second, which no longer existed. Ever heard a Chebby cast iron pushrod V6 drop into first at 70 MPH? Good times. Unbelievably, it was still moving under its own power when he got rid of it for like $200.

 

But I digress. The point is, the Citation really sucked.

 

-Jason

bumpy

Yep, I had that one single speaker, and by the time I got the car it didn't work anymore. I never put anything else in; it wasn't worth the effort.

 

That automatic was an "interesting" beast. Every time I wanted to pass someone, I'd pull out and floor it, and the car would just float for a second. Just when I thought the dumb thing had finally up and died, that old 2.8 would wake up like it had a barrel of hot peppers shoved up its tailpipe: BRWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Of course, that wasn't quite as much fun as slowing down to make a turn, and losing the power assist halfway through the turn because the load from the power steering pump stalled the engine.

 

The thing finally went to the junkyard after the tranny sprung a leak riding down the road, dumping half its load on the exhaust pipe and fumigating the local mosquito population. Just over 80,000 miles.

andyman73

Just have to add a little positive note in defense of the crapette. One of my former coworkers had a Chevette from new, only just recently replaced it. Was his boat towing car. Only a 14 foot johnboat, but still. He loved it. His daily driver was a Delta 88.

lemko

...with a vertical radio. I seem to recall my Uncle Daniel's blue 1968 AMC Rebel SST having one. I thought it was pretty cool.

toomanyfumes

in 1976. He ordered it with an AM radio, no tape, but it had a fader and rear speakers. Also had cop car hubcaps, velour interior, but no air conditioner. He ended upgiving the car to me in the mid 80's. One of the slowest cars i've ever owned; it had the 260 V8.

andre1969

for those tiny V-8's like the 260 Olds, 265 Pontiac, and 267 Chevy V-8. In most years the Olds only had like 100-110 hp, and I think the Pontiac and Chevy engines had around 115-120. It just doesn't seem like much of a step up from something like a Chevy 250 inline 6, which usually had around 110 hp, or a 229 V-6, which was usually 110-115, or the Buick 231, which was usually 105-110 in that era.

 

Did they mainly build these engines just to placate the type of buyers that just HAD to have a V-8, no matter what? Nevermind that it wasn't going to perform significantly better than a V-6, and would probably end up getting a bit worse mileage? The V-8's would've definitely sounded better back then, though. Smoother, too.

 

I had an '82 Cutlass Supreme with the 231 V-6. It was a dog. I drove a '78 or so one once though, with the 260 V-8, and I swear there was no difference in performance. But then one of my friends had an '82 Cutlass sedan with the 260 V-8, and while I'd never driven it, I had ridden in it plenty of times, and followed him in it. As long as you weren't trying to flat-out race somebody, it actually wasn't that bad. Especially considering that it only had like 100 hp by then! I wouldn't want any one of these things nowadays though, unless it had a 307 in it! Or unless someone had the good grace to drop in a 350 or so! ;-)

jrosasmc

I know a guy (I've mentioned this story before) in my hometown with a '90 Cadillac Eldorado that has 217k miles on the original engine and tranny! How that's possible is way beyond me.

Mr_Shiftright

It's the laws of statistics. All the occurrences of some mechanical event are spread out on a spectrum from dismal early failure to unexplainable durability.

 

That's why you need lots of data to make any generalization about high mileages or high prices on cars. You need to find out where the vast majority of data falls. One can't say what happened to one is going to happen to most people, either bad or good, without lots of careful research. Otherwise one falls into "anecdotal error".

lemko

...My Dad had bought a new 1981 Ford Thunderbird Town Landau with a puny 255, (4.2 litre) V-8. I believe that dog of a powerplant had all of 98 hp! I had to floor it to make it go uphill. His previous 1978 Granada coupe with the 250 cube inline six seemed to have more guts.

 

My best friend briefly owned a 1980 Malibu with the 267 V-8. I saw it as the worst car he owned.

andre1969

I don't think Caddy's aluminum V-8 was nearly as troublesome as the earlier 4.1's had been. And by that time, I believe the majority of the kinks were worked out of the automatic tranny.

 

So, I could see this Eldorado, if it's been well taken care of and not abused, going on for a long, long time. And I remember you mentioning this car before. Isn't the owner an older doctor, or something like that? He probably doesn't rag it out, and probably takes good care of it. And if he does a lot of highway driving or takes a lot of vacations where he racks up miles on the car, well those kinds of miles are nothing for a car. Unless you're running it at high speed with low oil, coolant, tranny fluid or something like that!