I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

jlawrence01

That car did not look too bad ... until they showed the dash.

 

It looks so primitive...

Mr_Shiftright

Well there is a certain charm in simplicity but my main complaint about the old 190 and 200 diesels is that they are so incredibly rough running and noisy. Also they are so gutless that, as the joke goes "that car couldn't pull the skin off rice pudding".

andre1969

but in this pic...

,

behind the old white Mopar intermediate that looks like a banged up police car, there's a blue car that looks like it might be some kind of personal luxury coupe from the 70's, with a chrome/aluminum strip going up the B-pillar. Any idea what it is, Fintail?

fintail

Yeah the price on the 110 seems very healthy, as you could get a 220SE fintail in similar immaculate condition for not much more. A smoother FI fintail with more chrome, full of wood, and modern car performance (140hp vs 55hp) is more appealing to me (like my fintail). But I understand the diesels have their followers. I can attest that the seller is as honest as can be, and I have seen the car, it is legit.

 

My fintail actually lives in the big garage in the background there. The blue car behind the old Mopar is a Grand Prix, c.78-79 I believe.

Mr_Shiftright

I think one of the cylinders in my car has more horsepower than that.

merckx

That Benz is very tempting. If I wasn't on the East Coast I think I'd bid fairly high on it.

A friend of mine had a 180D that did sound like a WWII bomber,but I thought a lot of that was that he had it 20 years ago,when it was just a cheap used car he painted in his backyard.

i never suspected they'd all sound like that...still,it was a hoot to drive...

fintail

One of your cylinders can probably roll down a hill faster, too.

 

I am sure that diesel handles as well as a gas fintail...same suspension and steering...but I bet 0-60 is around 30 seconds or so.

jrosasmc

There's this new book in the bookstores that caught my eye recently, called "Automotive Atrocities." In it was the Mercedes 190 Series from 1984-93. I thought the early ones were awful, but the early '90s versions are wonderful, reliable cars in my opinion. I wonder what a good '93 190E 2.6 would go for these days. Drove one a few years ago and it took the winding curves like nothing; the ride was also solid.

Mr_Shiftright

The one you want is the 2.3/16 valve. The 2.6 is just a dime a dozen used car IMO. $5000 should get you a very nice '93 2.6 but the 16 valve is the fun car to drive.

 

Ordinary 8 valve 2.3s are junk, probably the worst car Benz ever made in recent memory, along with the 219 and the 600.

fintail

Yeah...I wouldn't call it an "atrocity" along the lines of so many horrid cars...but the 4cyl ones were kind of a weak link for MB, gutless un-fun little things. I see a lot of them still around, a lot of tatty ones. They are unloved and will always be so. I think the 6cyl ones are OK and are a massive improvement, they did get better as the years passed. The MB specialist I know has an immaculate late 2.6 he converted to a 5 speed and put in a AMG style interior (I think out of a 2.3/16 he parted out)...it's pretty cool and fast.

jrosasmc

What is a Mercedes 219? Never heard of it.

ghulet

The 190E/190D certainly aren't the most coveted Benzes, but I'd hardly call them an 'atrocity'--they were pretty reliable, looked nice and handled well, didn't rust like their predecessors, and in certain forms, their performance was pretty good, too (2.3-16s and 2.6s, mostly). The downsides: size (particularly back seat room), price when new (they were the victim of unfortunate timing when the dollar versus deutschmark was way out of whack) and a sort of orphan/wannabe status among Benz afficianados and regular car consumers alike.

fintail

A 219 is a W105 ponton, the rounded 50s looking sedan. I don't know much about them, as I have never experienced one. From photos it appears to be a 6cyl ponton front mated to a 4cyl ponton rear, I think to bridge a gap between the lowline and highline cars.

lemko

Andre, did you ever see the episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond" where Ray wanted to buy his Dad's old car because he had his first "experience" with a girl in it? The car was a dark olive green 1971 Plymouth Valiant sedan with the dog dish hubcaps. It appeared to be in pretty decent condition though the paint looked a little dull.

andre1969

no, never saw that one, but I catch Raymond every once in awhile, so I'll probably see it, eventually!

 

Speaking of first experiences, I didn't have my first experience in my '68 Dart, but I did have an "experience" the first night I had it legal and on the road! Maybe that's why I'm so endeared to the thing! Subconsciously, I'm keeping it around as a good luck charm! ;-)

lemko

...one high school couple used to borrow my friend's brown 1973 Chevrolet Impala sedan to "make out" in. They would simply park on a side street and make out in that car's huge back seat. You'd know they were in there as that car was the only one on the block with fogged windows.

 

My Dad's red 1978 Ford Granada coupe was where I first had my "experience."

toomanyfumes

mine was in the back of my '70 gremlin. Not much room at all! My dad had a '73 Gremlin, so that would'nt have been much better, and my mom's 76 Cutlass was off limits at that time.

andre1969

there isn't a whole lot of room in the back of a '68 Dart hardtop, either! Let's just say that it's a good thing the back windows rolled down, and leave it at that! ;-)

andys120

sports cars. The back seat of a Dart would be Hugh Hefner's bed by comparison.

 

Back to the topic, I'm visiting the New York area and noticed my bro has a neighbor with a fairly clean looking Toyo Cressida from the last series. I've also spotted a '57 Chevy HT with no chrome in tan primer awaiting resto at a gas station as well as the shell of a '61 Impala HT in similar condition outside a body shop.

andyman73

speaking of long winded, we had a 78 Dodge van with nearly 300K on the original 318. Only thing Dad ever did was rebuild the carb, twice, over the 19.5 years of ownership. Van was 4 on the floor manual. Was driven all over U.S., lived in Germany for 4 years, and survived 3 teenage boys learning to drive.

andyman73

El Cajon, and yes, it's quite an awesome downhill, even a Radio Flyer wagon can break 100 mph on that stretch!!! Just be wary when the Santa Ana's are blowing! Those who know, know what I'm sayin.

andys120

My brother's short street (6 or 7 homes on either side looks like a museum of Japanese cars of the 90s this AM. Parked on the street were/are the following:

 

-The last series Toyota Cressida mentioned my last post

 

-A gen I Acura Legend four door

 

-An Infiniti G20

 

-A Nissan Stanza

 

-A Gen I Altima (the Stanza's replacement)

 

I'm not counting my brother's '98 Civic four-door

'cuz it's parked in the garage behind closed doors. There's one newer Japanese on the block, an Acura RSX but it's far outnumbered by the older cars which all appear to be in decent to fine shape.

210delray

... a current-gen Bora (aka Jetta) and an old Squareback.

lemko

...a black 1963 Cadillac Sedan DeVille 6-window hardtop in front of a neighborhood repair shop. This is the car that made me fall in love with Cadillac. The '63 still looks as beautiful to me today as it did nearly 40 years ago when I saw one when I was a very small child.

 

This particular car is in very good condition as the body appears straight and rust-free. The paint was still glossy. The hubcaps and fender skirts were missing, but they were probably removed by the owner. The front fender ends were in still in good condition. This is a weak spot on early-mid Sixties Cadillacs as crud thrown by the front wheels would fly up behind them causing them to rust-through from behind.

ghulet

....I don't think early '60s Cadillacs rusted too badly except for the caps/corners of the front bumpers, which usually look like termites got to them or something. I've seen many examples (63-64s especially) where the rest of the body is fine, but the front bumpers are virtually disintegrated.

lemko

...that's what I meant. I saw an article where a guy showed how to make fiberglass replacements for the corners on a '65. He painted them body color and they didn't look too bad.

andre1969

I've seen that alot too, on the '63-64 Caddies. The car could be spotless otherwise, except for the bumper corners!

fintail

A few ebay relics for the morning

 

I don't know what they think they've got

 

Anyone want a new Citation? I didn't think so

 

It's not a Renault as the title says...it's much much worse

 

If you insist on having a 58 Packard, I guess this would be the one to have

 

I've heard these are a joy to own

 

Now this is a SUV

 

"Turbo Performance Mopar Classic"

 

Stunning 560SEL from craigslist

 

Ponton with...interesting...history

Mr_Shiftright

I presume your remark on the Citroen SM being a "joy to own" was a touch sarcastic? It might be a joy if you were a woman married to a dashing and handsome Citroen mechanic, but otherwise you'd be lucky to have it running a week at a time. they are very strange to drive at first and most people find the first experience very harrowing. For one thing, the wheel doesn't "center" after you make a turn. Being an automatic, should that ever fail you can basically just air cargo it back to France. French technology and a Maserati engine? Hmmmmm......They do ride nice, though, and technologically they were very advanced for their time...the "bleeding edge" of technology you might say.

 

560SEL -- 'purchased for a "collection"? Who collects recently made 4-door cars? Makes me suspicious of the ad but the car looks very nice. I'd offer $7,500, maybe $8K. Lotta car for the money but pray nothing big goes wrong or you're up the creek. Can you imagine replacing a heater core or doing a top end valve job? Nah...

 

Austin Princess---I about burst out laughing at the part about "it's rare to find a Princess here in the United States". It seems like I stumble on them EVERYWHERE and they certainly show up at all major collector car auctions. Of course these are the same cars being shipped around, hoping that one person still left in America who wants one will buy it. Ship it to the UK, that's where you sell cars like this.

andre1969

I've always been of the attitude that a little S&M can be fun with the right person, but I've heard that Citroen takes it to a whole new level! ;-)

Mr_Shiftright

Citroen owners are basically a cult.

lemko

I just saw this great comedy feauturing many well-known comic actors of the time in starring and cameo roles. This 1963 Stanley Kramer film features not only a cast of thousands but is a car spotters delight. Of particular interest to Mopar fans:

 

Milton Berle, Ethel Merman, and Dorothy Provine are riding in a 1962 Imperial converible.

 

Sid Caesar and Edie Adams are in a 1962 Plymouth station wagon.

 

Eddie "Rochester" Anderson and Peter Falk drive twin 1959 Plymouth taxicabs.

 

Spencer Tracy drives a plain jane black 1962 Dodge.

 

Dick Shawn drives a red 1962 Dodge Polara convertible.

 

Jerry Lewis is driving a red 1962 Chrysler 300 hardtop.

 

Jonathan Winters steals a Dodge Power Wagon wrecker.

 

There are plenty of 1962 Dodge and Plymouth police cruisers.

 

Other makes:

 

Terry Thomas drives a contemporary Jeep station wagon and later a blue 1961 Chevrolet Impala.

 

Buddy Hackett and Mickey Rooney are in an older VW cabriolet.

 

Jonathan Winters drives a 1950s Ford cab-over box truck.

 

Phil Silvers drives a 1946 Ford convertible into a river.

 

Jack Benny appears in a mid-1930s Ford roadster.

 

Don Knotts has his 1956 Ford Sunliner stolen by Phil Silvers.

 

Jimmy Durante runs a 1957 Ford Skyliner off a cliff.

fintail

Yeah, that was sarcasm...I can't think of a French car that has attained more derision, at least from what I have heard, than the SM. It's probably a deserved thing, French tech mated to a Maserati engine can't be good.

 

I think that 560 is right on the money, although it's always nice to go cheaper. Looks like a pristine car, and a nice color combination, not the common black or white or champagne. If some unexpected death hit my 300SE, I'd give that guy a call. I hear that engine is a beast to maintain though, local specialist claims they are known to develop cam problems. He also said getting a W140 isn't a good idea. I think my 6cyl W126 is an ideal mix. Power is just adequate and economy isn't spectacular, but it is so smooth.

fintail

It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World is an awesome car movie. I still cringe when I see that bubbletop Impala put on its side, or that Polara catching air when it crosses that road. The 46 Ford being drowned also kills me...if they only knew. There are also a couple funny scenes in the movie...like there's a 1st gen Corvette seen several times in street scenes. There's also a fintail seen near the end in the firetruck scene.

 

I think Mopar must have had some financial interest in the movie.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, he might get $10K for the 560SEL but they are potentially risky money pits. But if you want to look rich for cheap until the first repair bill, hey, go for it. I'd prefer to hedge my bets and offer a low enough price that I could eat a $2,000 repair bill (which is easy to achieve) and ditch the car and come out more or less whole. I already drive a money pit (Porsche 928) and this car is a lot worse because there is a)more of it and b) no really good aftermarket. At least old Porsches you have a myriad of choices who to buy from, but a 560SEL, you mostly have to go to "you know who" for major components. And with engine rebuilds easily busting $15K, you could lose the whole car's value in 5 careless seconds.

 

My two cents anyway. I don't roll $10K dice, some people do.

jlawrence01

Do realize that back "in the good old days", most TV shows were NOT produced by the netwoek but by the advertiser. Buick, Chrysler, etc. sponsired their own shows and featured all of their products.

 

I collect a lot of old time TV and radio shows and like to see all of the various ads.

ghulet

...does this character who claims to have Howard Hughes' Mercedes claim to have any documentation? Strange it comes just as at least two films about his life have debuted. Why would Hughes own a mid-level ponton, of all things? Why not a 300S? Or a 300SL? I smell something here.

 

Strange Citation, why would someone keep something like that entombed for 25 years? That's an unusual set up, pretty basic (the base coupe with bench and I think a V6, but power windows, no tilt, no power locks), very strange. Still not desirable in the least, but odd nonetheless.

fintail

That's why I like the 6cyl car, Shifty. I've had it for going on three years now, and it's been pretty trouble free. I do maintain it to the nth degree...but it's worth it. I'll take $1500 in yearly upgrades/repairs (I haven't spent that much in 3 years) over a $300+ payment for a decent car.

 

Carmakers were huge show sponsors. Because of Nikelodeon in the 80s, even someone my age became familiar. I remember the Mopars on Beverly Hillbillies, Studebaker on Mr. Ed, Fords on Dennis the Menace and Andy Griffith, and others not coming to mind right now.

 

I am also leery of that Hughes ponton story, but who knows. Maybe he wanted to be lower key. In Vegas I saw a 54 Chrysler once owned by him...I could easily see my grandfather in the same car.

 

Maybe the Citation got caught up in an estate battle, or was owned by a crazy dealer who wrote it off.

lemko

...I once saw a 1979 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow the owner claimed once belonged to Diana Ross. I also saw a 1962 Cadillac that reputedly belonged to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Spotted today - a red 1970 Mustang Grande with a black vinyl top. This car was a little shabby and obviously a daily driver.

fintail

There was a Mercedes 300 TD (wagon) on ebay a while back previously owned by Maurice (I think) Gibb

Mr_Shiftright

If the celebrity's name isn't on the registration or a detailed explanatory affadavit from the estate, you got nuthin' in terms of "celebrity value".

 

Besides all that, celbrities have to be REALLY big, and REALLY famous. Amy Grant or some old football player isn't going to cut it.

kyfdx

As with everything from the past, I remember it as looking better then...lol

Mr_Shiftright

I think people also remember them as being mechanically better than they were, too! They are valve-eaters and they like to munch on oil pumps, too. Classic case of styling that looks worse and worse with age. But who knows, perhaps it will become the AMC Pacer of the year 2020?

kyfdx

Maybe.. but, I don't think so...

Mr_Shiftright

Okay, the Datsun F10 of 2020? the Isuzu I-Mark of 2015?

 

I actually owned an XT for a short time...kind of inherited it. I remember taking it over to my friend Jim Askim of Askim's Auto Works in San Rafael, the "Subaru guru" of Marin County, also a Peugeot and Citroen mechanic, so this guy knows from "weird". I nosed it up to his shop to ask him a question about very noisy valve lifters and he poked his head out of the office and shouted at me "Get that thing out of here"!.

 

After bribing him with coffee and pizza he informed me that I need an oil pump---which he fixed for not too much money. But you could tell he really hated these cars. He said of the dashboard "I never tire of looking at those space pods they call "controls""

kyfdx

I dated a girl for a short time that had the XT6.. I never drove it.. but, at the time, I remember thinking it was sort of cool, and I kind of liked the way the instruments went up and down with the tilt wheel.. that made ergonomic sense, unless you were a bus driver..

 

But, after seeing the one on the road today (13" wheels and rusted out), I'm thinking maybe that I drank a lot before I got married.... Now, I hope I don't run into that girl again.. no telling what she looks like..

lemko

...cars that belonged to more notorious people might even be more valuable. I recall an auction for Philadelphia serial killer Gary Heidnik's two cars several years ago - a 1971 Rolls-Royce and a 1987 Cadillac DeVille. I also remember imprisoned mob boss Nicky Scarfo's 1973 Rolls-Royce being up for auction. Heck, Saddam Hussein & Sons had an impressive collection, but I believe they were all destroyed. I wonder what a Mercedes that once belonged to Hitler would be worth?

fintail

The destruction of the historical cars in Saddam's garage is a crime. No better than what has been done to more classical items in Afghanistan etc. At the least the cars could have been whisked away and sold to benefit war victims.

 

There was a very significant Erdmann & Rossi bodied 540K in extreme art deco style that was rumored destroyed

 

But then is rumored to have escaped as well.

Mr_Shiftright

Interesting thing is that no photo exists of Hitler ever driving a car. It is possible he didn't even know how to drive. So this would make "Hitler's car" a rather hard thing to prove.

 

I remember a Pontiac station wagon that came up at auction that REALLY WAY Frank Sinatra's car---but it was a Pontiac station wagon. It brought more than a "normal wagon" but not much more.

 

So the "celebrity car" has to be interesting as well as owned by someone famous I think.

 

I mean, that's common sense...does anyone really choose Russell Crowe's Rambler American over Jay Leno's supercharged Auburn Speedster?

lemko

...of "Seinfeld" when George bought a 1983 Chrysler Town & Country convertible that belonged to Jon Voight?