I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

turboshadow

As well as Hitler's Mercedes, wonder whatever happened to:

 

Charles Manson's dune buggies

Ted Bundy's VW

Paul (?) Gallego's custom van

Wayne William's station wagon

 

I'm sure there are others...

 

Turboshadow

andre1969

to Francis Bavier's old Studebaker?

kyfdx

Do you mean the diabolical Frances Bavier??

lemko

...the mad ruler of Romania from 1965 to his execution in 1989 had a nice black 1975 Buick Electra 225 sedan given to him as a gift from our own naive government. I've seen pictures of it and it appears to be in excellent condition. I don't know if its currently in a museum or is for sale.

andys120

wasn't exactly in the league of Ceaucescu or Hitler but he was a car collector and owned a bunch of interesting cars including a Citroen SM.

lemko

...had several other cars such as a Cadillac Eldorado, Lincoln Mark IV, and a 1974 Chevy Monte Carlo. I guess his ZIL 114 just couldn't cut it.

grbeck

Andre, Frances Bavier's Studebaker was bought by a collector (who is a member of a Studebaker club) at her estate sale.

 

As for Charles Manson's cars - the vehicle actually used by the murderers to drive to the Tate and LaBianca residences was a 1959 Ford sedan. I'm sure it's long gone by now.

 

The Manson victims had some interesting cars. Sharon Tate owned a red 1960s Ferrari. The Ferrari (unsure of exact year and model) was given to her father by her husband, Roman Polanski. Her father later sold it to a Ferrari collector who wrecked it.

 

Rosemary LaBianca owned a 1955 Thunderbird. Since two-seater Thunderbirds were desirable even in 1969, and rust isn't a big problem in Southern California, it's very likely that this car survives. If the car exists, I wonder if the owner knows about its history.

jrosasmc

Speaking of celebrities I hear Jerry Seinfeld owns a large number of Porsches and keeps them in an airport hangar.

Mr_Shiftright

You'd think nobody would want the karma associated with some pyscho killer's car. Bad ju-ju.

debaser853

Thought I rememebered reading something about his garage.

 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0527041jerry1.html

fintail

I didn't know where to put this thing

 

Pimped out W110 fintail

 

I'm mixed...I am an originality freak, so I don't like mods...but then again, nobody really ever saves a 110 fintail anyway, so it's better than nothing.

stickguy

And it has gotten so hard to find a Mercedes with a beer tap shifter these days. Wonder if that is a dealer option?

jrosasmc

What is a beer-tap shifter?

stickguy

shift KNOB actually. Look at the picture that shows the dashboard. They replaced the shift knob with a Bud Light beer tap handle.

Mr_Shiftright

If it was German beer it could be factory stock.

fintail

6cyl 108s are still worth so little...probably the cheapest classy looking car you can find with any reliability attached to it. Cheaper than fintails even. They are usually extremnely solid and nicely finished.

Mr_Shiftright

Er...I don't know about "reliable"...they can be a bit fussy. But nicely made however that's true. Comes with the famous "neckbuster" automatic transmission.....which sounds like:

 

eeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEE(First gear here)EEEEEEEEEE (pause).....KA_BAMMMM!!! (now you got second).

 

My favorite "old cheap Mercedes 4-door) would have to be an early 70s stripper 220 with 4 cyl/4 speed transmission. Run forever and nice clean lines.

stickguy

That's the first generation that I actually like, since it looks more modern, and I never could warm up to the vertical dash on the older ones.

 

I agree that the next generation (early 70's, sorry I can't speak model numbers) is very nice, and classy looking, and will probably run forever.

kyfdx

I really like the mid-'70s coupe... I don't know the numbers either, but most were badged as a 280C.. I'd take one in that same white w/red leather combo... And a mechanic named Fritz or Hans...

Mr_Shiftright

280 Coupes are a pretty good buy right now if you stay away from the early V8s, which are pricey. I bet I could snag a real nice 280C for $8,000 or so if I looked hard enough and had a suitcase full of cash. Hell of a lot of car for the money.

 

Yes, you need Hans but you need an honest Hans. Probably the worst worry on a 280C would be if you had to rebuild the automatic transmission. That could hurt. The engine's bottom end will last forever, but you'll be doing a valve job every 100K no doubt.

 

The rest of the car is pretty straightforward---sturdy German over-engineering all the way.

andre1969

that looks like this?

 



 

I kinda like those, but there was the other coupe, that looked like an elongated 450SL, and had a louvered rear window. I thought those were kinda funky.

kyfdx

Yep.. plus another earlier(?) model that had a more upright grille..

 

I think you are thinking of the 450 SLC..

michaellno

Methinks you're referring to the 450SLC, which was basically a stretched 450SL. I think it had a token back seat and a fixed hardtop. A cardiologist friend of my dads had one when I was a kid -- red, IIRC. Sweet car.

 

fintail, can you confirm?

 

I've got a question for the group -- we spend quite a bit of time debating the merits of various 60's, 70's and 80's Benzes, but what about similar vintage BMW's? Are they just junk and not worth keeping for the most part (I think the 3.0CS might be the exception)? Or, would it make sense to take a 70's Bavaria or early 5-series and do something with it?

fintail

The autoboxes are clunky but sturdy. On 60s cars you rarely find bad ones. The engines become oil burners long before the trannys go bad.

 

Don't get a 280C confused with like a 280SE. There was never a V8 in a 280C, the C would be an inline 6 with carbs, a CE being FI of course. I think you can get a pristine 280C/CE for 5-6K.

 

This is a 280C, a CE would be identical

 



 

This is the car andre talks about, it is based on the SL and it is kind of funky, the SLC

 



 

The car Andre posts is a 123 coupe, likely a 300CD

fintail

I think the MBs are more common than BMWs - they sold a lot more - and I am here, so I bring them up a lot.

 

I suspect BMWs are similar in many ways, maybe a little harder edged.

kyfdx

Bavarias and pre-79 5-series are virtually worthless.. Like most sedans...

 

Coupes.. especially six-cylinders like the 3.0CS and 2002s are about the only collectible BMWs from the '70s... (except for the M1 of course).

Mr_Shiftright

450 SLC are kind of neither a fish nor a fowl, and most people turn their noses up at them. They have all the bad points of the 450SL (gas hogs, slow, clumsy, very expensive to fix) but without the convertible top fun of the SL as a balance point. Definitely a car to avoid or buy very cheap (which they are). You should be able to find a trophy winner for $6,500.

 

Okay, I see I have my Mercedes nomenclature confused (who doesn't at some time?)...I was thinking 1968 on up 280 SEC...that's a nice car. The older models are IMO very slow clumsy and tank-like and not a lot of fun to drive. They also like to rust like Fiats. If you gotta have a luxury MB coupe, the 1968 280s are the way I'd recommend. Or even the cheaper 250Cs are okay. Or even a 300CD would be a more interesting coupe to have.

stickguy

I remember a magazine from during the gas crisis (probably the first one, so about '74?) called "small cars ..." (something along those lines), and the whole magazine was road tests, concentrating on fuel economy.

 

Anyway, I remember one test of a Mercedes coupe (one of the ones shown above), that was touted as a gas saver (getting a whopping 20mpg or so). Can't remember the tranny (sorry, but it was 30 years ago, and I was only 12). Do remember they were very impressed with how the car drove, but then again, most of their tests were stuff link Pintos.

 

Must have been a scam for them to drive something nice for a change!

andys120

This one looks cheap for what it is...

 

http://hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetail/id- /2170013

 

Last I looked 280SE coupes were $50,000 cars, I wonder what's wrong w this one.

stickguy

It looks like the cabs are the expensive ones, although that guy with the 1st 3.5 certainly doesn't think so (click the link to see the 6 other listings)

fintail

Being a 69 it's a 6cyl I am pretty certain, as the 3.5 didn't come about until very late in the production run. The big money is in the V8 280SE cars, especially the converts. That 69 is pretty normal in price, as it is a 6. Same timeless looks as a V8, same trim, and acceptable performance.

 

These old MB were like cars from the future compared to so many cars of the period. They are old tanks now, but at least they perform competently.

andre1969

I think partly because the roofline looks kind of like a stubbier, more upright '57-59 DeSoto/Chrysler roofline.

 

This...

 



 

Kinda makes me think of that roofline just a bit, as well

Mr_Shiftright

Nope you are thinking of V8 cars. The 6 cylinder 280SE coupes can still be had for the price you see (or less, or more, depending). But you do have to wade through a lot of crap. The demand for these cars is not nearly as high as the V8s and the convertibles. No way these coupes even break $20K. You should be able to find a trophy winner for $15K in a plain old 6 cylinder 280SE coupe.

 

For $50K, you are talking 280SE V-8 convertible money (up to $75K), with the low grille. That's a whole other car, as far as the market is concerned.

 

The market discerns that a 6 cylinder and high full grille are not desirable and prices accordingly.

fintail

That new style CL is the modern equivalent of a high end 280SE coupe, too. Frightfully expensive when new, complex, elegant. Probably the prettiest new MB.

 

I think the high grille cars are seen to be connected to more basic 60s themes with their 6cyl egines and are easier to spot as fintail derivatives with their identical front ends, so they have a less glamorous association.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, I'd say that was a pretty good analysis of it.

fintail

Keeps things cheaper for me, anyway

 

I still want one of these, in this condition

andys120

Nope you are thinking of V8 cars.

 

Doh!

 

'deed I was. A trophy winning 6 cyl @$15k sounds a lot more enticing than a V8 @ $50k and over.

Are those early V8s as sturdy as the fabled straight sixes were?

jrosasmc

How about the ultra-luxury 600 series of the late '60s? Can you get top dollar ($40k+) for one of those classic high-end Benzes?

fintail

You can get more than that for a mint 600, and you'll need that much again to maintain it. Those things make a Rolls look like a tractor..I think they have more pipes than a big house. Still, cool, if you are really wealthy.

 

I've never had an early MB V8, but from what I know they are smooth and robust, just painful to maintain and repair. The 6s tend to be much more practical. That scenario can be applied to just about any MB 6 vs 8. The 6 in my fintail is gutsy and revvy, if not a bit loud and clattery. I think it's great. The 6 in my 126 is smooth and near silent at low speeds, is easy to maintain and very durable. The 8s are much faster and even smoother, but you pay for it in economy and repairs.

andys120

I think they 600s probably don't have good value for the same reason old Silver Clouds don't, they are complex and hideously expensive to maintain.

 

Loved those things myself, especially the Pullmans, I'd rather have one of those than that silly new Maybach.

Mr_Shiftright

Interesting thing you can do with a Mercedes 600. The early ones had hydraulic windows. In typically German fashion, the hydraulic system had something like 2500 psi pressure in them. We used to put wooden pencils in the window openings and the window coming up could break them.

andys120

Imagine what it'd do to your fingers! :^(

Mr_Shiftright

or the technician who, god forbid, opened a hydraulic line without bleeding the pump. I have heard but never verified that it could cut right through the door panels.

jrosasmc

I see all too often older late '80s BMW 750iL sedans being offered on Ebay. Sadly, most of those are beat-up by now, and I really can't imagine how much money it takes to keep that big V-12 running.

Mr_Shiftright

You have to be the type that can roll big dice and not be stressed about it. I don't have the guts to buy one of those, but maybe if I had all the ducks lined up right (great technician who was a friend, good aftermarket parts, excellent history on the car, and fabulous selling price), I'd go for it. But all those 4 elements would have to be in place, like they were for my Porsche 928. I'm not about to let a used car lead me into a life of diminished capacity to eat out a few times a week.

andre1969

when all that other crap fails, how hard is to yank out the V-12 and put a Chevy 350 under the hood?

Mr_Shiftright

You'd just ruin it, though, putting a motor like that in such a refined and elegant car. I doubt if it would fit anyway. Also would look mighty weird under there. American V8s are very powerful that's true, and basically reliable if you don't go on the autobahn, but they are very unattractive motors. It would be jarring (to me). BMW V-12s are so beautiful. Chevy 350s look like Vermont wood stoves. You can tell they make 1,000s of them a minute.

andys120

I don't know what the point of substituting the V12

for a Chebby would be either. If you want a big fast sedan

 with an American V8 getting a 300C would be cheaper and

 better than butchering a 750iL.

andre1969

I'm not advocating doing it, but hey, Chevy smallblocks, for better or for worse, have found their way into just about every other car over the years!

 

Besides, if you can get a 426 Hemi into a PT Cruiser or a Ford 351 into a Focus, would it really be THAT hard of a stretch to get a Chevy smallblock into an engine bay that once housed a V-12?

 

If you just wanted the body and interior, and found one that had a shot motor, would it be cheaper to just throw in a Chevy smallblock, and a GM tranny? Or with these types of cars, is it usually other stuff that fails and the engines go on forever? Again, it's not anything I'm trying to advocate, or ever think of doing. The only thing I'd think about putting a Chevy 350 into is my Silverado, because it only has a 305! :-(

Mr_Shiftright

yes, but then you have to look at the front of a 300C all day. But still, a better alternative, I would agree...and a far more refined V8.