I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

because you're gonna be behind the wheel of it, with a smile on your face!

andys120

http://hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetail/id/2168095http/hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetail/id/2168095http://hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetail/id/2168095

 

http://hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/deahttp/hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetail/id/2168052lers.detail/hmn_vehicle_id/215781

andys120

This comes under the look rich for cheap category...

 

http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetai- - l/id/2170829

 

I'm not a big fan of the Rolls Shadows but geez, $18 grand!

andys120

I cannot edit, as no prompt appears. %$#@! new software!:(

pat

I've asked andys120 to leave the link in #5764 so that John can see it in order to fix it. The software should not have allowed it to skew the page in that manner. It should have been wrapped within a normal-sized text box.

 

Meanwhile, just so everyone knows, the normal message links (Bookmark, Reply, and Edit, Delete if appropriate) will show up on a page that contains that message if you scroll all the way to the right.

 

Sorry this happened, but we'll get someone to take care of it for the future.

fintail

This new software is less than awesome. It formats some things very weird in Netscape too, like text doesn't keep in its outline boxes.

 

That Packard, although it seems to be loaded, is pretty overpriced. The hardtop coupes of that series are more attractive and can be had for less than that sedan.

 

You can get Rolls Shadows in decent shape for 10-15 any day of the week. It's the maintenance, not purchase price. IIRC, a brake job costs a fortune on one.

pat

Please report issues with the new software here: Forums Software - Your Questions Answered.

 

(I agree, there are some font issues with Mozilla based browsers, by the way.)

Mr_Shiftright

If someone gave you a Rolls Royce Shadow, it would be too expensive. It is, I am told, one of the most expensive car presently on earth to repair, and that includes Ferrari, etc.

 

However, you could buy it cheap and when something broke throw it away. If it' a well-kept estate car you might actually get 10,000 miles out of it. And the interiors are divine darling.

 

300C-- no, sitting in it doesn't cure the problem because then I have to look at the 1995 Sony Shelf Stereo dashboard. But I can close my eyes and drive it and enjoy it, that's true (Bonneville Salt Flats---hard to hit anything out there). Oh, it's not so bad, I'd take one for free I swear.

 

Did I mention I saw a slammed Opel Kadett station wagon?

jrosasmc

Just out of curiosity what do you think is the most expensive car in the world to repair?

 

And/or the cheapest?

Mr_Shiftright

I'd say a Rolls Royce, for any "production" car. Maybe some hand-built McLaren would be more because you have to fly it somewhere. But generally a Rolls or Ferrari should cost you about $1-$2 per mile to keep on the road. This means normal maintenance and repairs for a car out of warranty.

 

Let's say you bought a Shadow that needed only the following: a brake job, a muffler/tailpipe and 4 hubcaps. That should cost about $8,500.

 

30K service on most used Ferrari V-12s should be about $5,000.

 

Engine rebuild on a Mercedes V12 perhaps $20,000 on up. Ferrari V12 full engine rebuild up to $30,000, rebuild on a brand new Enzo perhaps $60,000.

 

Clutch on most supercars like this, if you do it right, around $10,000.

 

It is not uncommon on some exotics for things like directional stalk assemblies and water pumps to cost $1,000 and more, + labor to install.

 

 
Bodywork can be very expensive on cars like Ferraris, because if you have to buy a new fender or door, it doesn't "fit". It has to be trimmed and fitted individually to each and every car.

 

So really, an exotic car with a lot of serious needs is basically a parts car from the get-go.

fintail

Ebay time comes early

 

This should keep a mechanic busy...awfully thin A-pillars too, for a convert. I like the cheesy silver metal instrument panel trim, reminds me of an old Sony stereo I had back in the day

 

What's it really worth, Shifty?

 

These freakshows always get good bids...closing bid will be far in excess of this

 

Not many of these stateside

 

For the ambitious

 

Patinated Packard, worth keeping

 

There's not a good reason in the world to even think about it

 

Pretty DeSoto woody

 

"Mr. C"s car

 

Sad rusty W112 300SE

 

Decent fintail

 

Like new 126 with amazing bids

 

Now here's a real G-Wagon...a refurbished old one. Roll up windows, vinyl interior, diesel, etc

 

Start your own 1960 Ford junkyard

 

Low mileage Mirada with healthy bidding

 

Here's a deal for Andre

 

This is...amusing. No mention of a flux capacitor, and I see the Mr. Fusion conversion is missing. No values at all for these things

 

These are really cool

 

I have a strange attraction to relics like this...I'd like a toy like this. It's a bargain at the current bid, it will at least double it

andre1969

If you wanted something that looked like a musclecar, I think around 1980-82 that was about your only choice. Let's not mention the 130 hp 318 that the '81 was sporting, though :-(

 

I know a '79-81 NYer isn't something that you worry about if everything is original or correct on it (and I shouldn't talk, with the copcar wheels I have on mine!), but those incorrectly re-upholstered front seats bother me! Beautiful car otherwise, though, and I could live with those seats! If it were closer to me, I'd probably bid on it. Or if I didn't have one, I think I'd try to find my way down to Florida to get it! That year though it came standard with a 318 that only put out 120 hp! I'm sure the 150 hp 360 that's under the hood of mine is a rocket in comparison!

andre1969

I saw something downright odd today. It was a Dodge van, looked about mid 80's vintage, with a tandem rear axle! It was elongated, looked to be about 20 feet long, and actually looked pretty professionally done. With that tandem rear axle, it made me think a bit of those old GMC motorhomes from the 70's...the ones that look more futuristic than 2005 MY motorhomes!

 

Was there a company that actually converted vans like this, or was this probably more of a one-off job?

kyfdx

Bubble car: Notice there are no pictures of the actual car with the front door open? That would worry me a lot.

 

'88 420 SEL: No matter how low the mileage, $16K seems like a lot..

 

Mirada: $6700 for an '80 Dodge... and reserve not met?

 

I like the Delorean... even without the flux capacitor.

bumpy

Tandem axle custom vans were done, but pretty rare. Most folks were happy with captain's chairs, carpet, and the ladder on the rear door of a regular van.

210delray

It had a Volvo nameplate on it, but it looked like some kind of military or construction vehicle. It had 4 wheels, was very boxy and sat high off the ground. I think the driver sat ahead of the front axle. It wasn't all that large, maybe the size of a midsize SUV, but definitely with a greater ground clearance and a greater overall height.

 

Does anyone know what it could be?

andys120

and quite a beautiful example of postwar PF styling. I imagine it will

draw big $$. It's something I'd want if I had big money.

 

OTOH, the Desoto Woody is quite nice but I can't believe the amount that's been bid.

andys120

http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetai- l/id/2170145

 

If there isn't anything really wrong it's a bargain price for one of the most desired Muscle Cars from the best year.

fintail

I figured for under $1000, that NYer was nice. I don't know enough to even notice the seats, but now that you mention it, they do look different.

 

There's a dual-axle conversion van in my town, on an early 70s Econoline. It's very 70s, with fender flares and tacky paint, etc. The old man who has it has kept it up very nicely though.

 

I have to wonder if Deloreans will ever be worth anything. I have my doubts. BTTF couldn't do it...nothing can. They still aren't appreciating.

 

Could that Volvo be this?

 

Woodys seem to have done quite nicely on the market, especially prewar cars and prewar designs like 46-48 Fords. That Desoto is a more modern design, of course, but I think it is still worth a bit.

fintail

Here's a few oddities of personal interest from the German ebay site

 

Early ABS/airbag 126

 

And another one

 

The cars above may never have any collectible value, but they still should be recognized for their technoligical and image significance. The design has also aged very well, and I think they represent the pinnacle of all around ability for a large car, especially of the period.

 

This is interesting as it is the last carbureted S class (or MB of any kind), I believe in the last year of production as well. This model was only sold on the continent, I believe

 

Very early 126 from the first several months of production

 

Scary fintail hearse

 

Neat little Lancia

Mr_Shiftright

'70 OLDS 4-4-2: Problem is price is too high for one thing. Should come in around $12.5K w/ 4-speed, presuming car is totally correct maybe a bit more. It is only the 4-4-2s with rare options that bring more serious money, and they still aren't, nor will they ever be, Camaros, Chevelles, etc. Remember, Olds is now a "dead duck" and being an orphan car makes it more like a Studebaker than a Chevy.

 

LANCIA: Appia is a sweet little car, very very well made (the later association with Fiat is most unfortunate and not accurate for these older cars), and technically highly advanced for its time----even for now.

 

Lancia was the first automaker to offer a V-6 engine BTW, but not in this car.

andre1969

I don't think Oldsmobile's demise is going to hurt the values of their classic cars any, and neither will Plymouth's. It's not like you're suddenly going to be snatching up 4-4-2's and Hemi Cudas for pennies on the dollar!

 

If these marques had met their demise back in the 60's, and had a few years to be run into the ground and get a loser image, such as DeSoto, Edsel, Studebaker, and so on, then yeah, it might hurt values somewhat.

 

However, the types of people who prize these classic Oldsmobiles and Plymouths are going to be the type that don't give a damn about a modern Oldsmobile. To them, the domestics probably became meaningless years ago, merely appliances today.

 

I know with the Mopar crowd, they used to draw the line at the mass switchover to FWD. As long as it was RWD it was still a "true" Mopar, even if it was a slant six Diplomat. But if it was FWD, no matter how good, it was a sellout!

 

Of course, then the Viper kind of threw a monkeywrench into this attitude, and Mopar put out some pretty cool trucks even though the RWD cars were gone. And now that the 300 and Magnum are here, and the Charger's coming up, suddenly it seems like the good old days again.

 

But then nowadays, the dividing line that determines if it's a "true" Mopar or not is often regarded to be the German takeover.

 

BTW, as far as some orphan cars go, when you get into the more desireable body styles and such, how do they compare with nameplates that are still around? For instance, how would a 1958 Edsel Citation convertible compare in value to a 1958 Ford Fairlane 500 'vert, or a '58 Mercury Park Lane 'vert?

 

'56-59 DeSoto Adventurers are a pretty hot item, too. A Chrysler 300 Letter Series is still worth more, but I have a feeling it would be even if DeSoto were still around, as it was more expensive to begin with, and always had a bigger, more powerful engine.

 

As for Studebaker, they were really so-so cars by the 50's and 60's, anyway, so the fact that they're not worth a whole lot probably stems more from that than the fact that it's an orphan.

 

Also, I think the whole orphan thing might be more dependent on whether the whole company went under, or if it was just a division that was canned. For instance, a DeSoto usually shared most of the important stuff with a Chrysler, although the Hemi engines were different. A '58 Edsel is little more than a '58 Ford when it comes to the low-lines, and a '58 Merc when it comes to the Citation/Corsair. And the '59-60 Edsel wasn't much more than Ford. And, interestingly, the '61 Mercury was really more '60 Edsel than '60 Mercury!

 

Same with Plymouth and Oldsmobile. The names are gone, but they always had a lot in common with other divisions. So for the most part, unless it's really unique trim/interior parts, it's not going to be that hard to find parts like it would for a Studebaker, Nash, Hudson, etc.

 

Plus, the Olds and Plymouth musclecars already made their mark in history, and have gone down as some of the great ones. Just because they don't slap the Plymouth name on Voyagers and Neons anymore, and they dumped the few remaining Oldsmobile models, it makes those classic models more martyr than loser. Now I'm not saying that's going to make their values skyrocket. But it's not going to sink them, either. Most enthusiasts probably disowned Plymouth and Oldsmobile years ago, anyway.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I really don't claim to know completely why Olds are valued less than Chevy and Pontiac, but they are...probably it has more to do with the fact that they were valued less when these cars were new.

 

When you think "muscle cars", Oldsmobile is not the first make to jump into most people's minds, so that's part of the problem.

 

Also, you have to remember that Olds turned into an "old man's car" in the late 70s and 80s, and had no "sports car" or "pony car", and no Buick GNX.

 

So really, in the list of GM "stars", it's at the bottom of the list, and the market shows this.

andys120

Oldsmobile is not the first make to jump into most people's minds, so that's part of the problem.



 

True that but even today there are many who believe that the 442 was the most well-rounded and best handling of the Muscle breed.

fintail

Image issues aren't always a bad thing...they make it cheaper for people who want a given car later on. With that 442, you can probably have all the fun of a Chevelle for less than half the money....and from real car enthusiasts, get the same cred as well.

andre1969

is that in the old car field, usually if it has the magic of the Chevy name on it, and to a lesser extent the Pontiac name, it's like it's pure gold or something. But Buick, Olds, Ford, and Mopar for the most part were just considered old cars.

 

Over time though, the non Chevy/Pontac musclecars have garnered more respect, but will probably never be as highly regarded as highly as a Chevy. But unless it's an AMC product, if it's a musclecar, it'll always have some sort of respect. And even the AMC musclecars have a following.

 

As for Buick/Olds, IMO they really didn't start turning into old people's cars until more of the late 80's. Before that a lot of old people bought them, true, but that's because older people tend to be more moneyed. Cars like the Electra, Ninety Eight, Riviera, and Toronado were the near luxury class before that term was coined. The likes of Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, etc took over there, although with the way prices are going, some of them are well above merely "near"-luxury!

PF_Flyer

... but certainly an odd set of vehicles that we passed on I-80 today while driving home. In order, running in a nice tight group... a Scion XB, followed by a Hummer H1, followed by a MINI... made for a strange picture!

 

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210delray

Thanks for the link. That appears to be the Volvo I saw, but I can't believe it was that old (1961-70), because it was in really great condition. The length given is 4.05 m, which translates to 159 inches. That's pretty short, but maybe the overall height of 1.67 m (85 in.) made it seem bigger.

 

The vehicle did have the current Volvo nameplate (font) on the door just below the A-pillar, but I know they've been using that same font since at least 1980, which was the year of my 240.

fintail

I bet they made something similar after that too. I just googled a Volvo military vehicle, and that's what I got.

 

Still, a freaky sight, those were never sold here. There's a similar weirdo called a Pinzgauer that I sometimes see driving around my town....same concept.

andre1969

to believe everything you see on tv, but is there a real-life vehicle that this:



is based on?

 

I didn't think too much of it at first, but then it did hit me that Jonny Quest usually strived for realism in the artwork and the technology they portrayed. For instance, there's one episode where they're driving in what looks like a Corvair rampside pickup!

 

Anyway, I'm guessing this is supposed to be a depiction of some kind of old military vehicle? Any chance it would be amphibious?

scscars

There is a real-life vehicle that the one in the cartoon is based on. The drawing is based on a DUKW, an amphibious vehicle made by Ford during WWII. I don't remember what DUKW stands for, but they were called "ducks." These were used during Korea and Vietnam as well. The drawing also looks a little like a VW "Thing" sold in the US in '73 and '74 which was also based on a German amphibious truck, but if this was from the original Jonny Quest ('64-'65), the drawing is probably meant to be a droptop "duck."

PF_Flyer

DUKW is a designation that's more like a VIN. The letters in the name DUKW each are a designation for a specific identity component. D indicates for 1942, U stands for utility (amphibian), K means front wheel drive, and W indicates two rear-driving axles.

Any similarity between DUKW and DUCK is most likely purely coincidental!

 

You can ride one in D.C. on an amphibious tour if you like!

 

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210delray

...in the Tidal Basin in DC a few years back during a sudden storm? IIRC, everyone aboard was rescued.

 

Or maybe it happened somewhere else, like on the Mississippi River near one of those riverboat casinos?

andys120

IIRC the '73s were not detuned and this one's got a Weber.

 

 
http://hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/dealers.detail/hmn_vehic- le_id/215741

 

 

I'm not crazy about the wheels and the interior looks a bit worn but this strikes me as a decent price considering that the prices of Brit sportsters is escalating. What do you think, Shifty, anyone?

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, it was a tourist spot of some sort and no, they were not all rescued. I think about ten people drowned, because they put a hard shell canopy on it.

 

What happens on those vehicles is that the seal that seals the driveshaft through the hull leaks and lets a HUGE amount of water in. So it sinks rapidly from the back.

kyfdx

Seems a good $5K too high.. MGBs should be dirt cheap..

 

Let someone else pay $2K for one, put another $10K-$12K in it.. then you buy it for $6K-$7K.

 

At least that is what my MG-crazed friend tells me...

andre1969

on the DUKW. Turns out they were built by GMC and used GMC 270 inline 6es. They weighed about 7 tons, could transport 2 1/2 tons, and were 31 feet long.

 

On dry land they could hit 50-55 mph, but were only good for about 6 mph in the water. Here's a spec page... http://my.voyager.net/~dukw/tech.htm

 

They were a 6-wheel vehicle, with a tandem rear axle. So I'm guessing Doug Wildey took a bit of artistic license in making up the one I posted, above!

 

There's a company in Chicago that restores them, too. I wonder how much one would cost? I think one would be fun...besides, it would shut up my buddy who keeps bragging about how long his Mark V is ;-)

 

The idea of something that massive and unruly going 50-55 mph kinda scares me, though!

kyfdx

the Wienermobile!!

Mr_Shiftright

A really sharp MGB could bust $10,000 easily, if it were a pre 1975 model and well done. I've seen them for over $15,000, but they were near perfect.

 

But a clean, decent ready to go driver should be about $5K-$7K.

 

Nice thing about MGBs is that you can buy any part you need, UPS to your door in two days, even an entirely new body if you want to do that. The MGB aftermarket is awesome, and used car parts are still plentiful.

 

If you try and restore one, keep in mind that these are unibody cars and arent' all that easy to do, like an older TC or TD.

andys120

The asking price for this souped-up mild custom Ford is outrageous IMO....

 

http://hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetail/id- /2168023

 

Am I the only one who thinks this car would be worth more bone-stock (assuming normal option load) than in it's present condition although no '54 Ford could be worth $35k?

fintail

People sink a chunk of change into those things, then do all the work themselves and bill it out at $100/hr, and come up with such prices based on their inputs. It's not worth a lot stock or rodded. I don't think show-quality Victoria glasstops hit more than 20K or so, so a lowly post shouldn't be worth more.

fintail

This is an interesting site. European Touring Car Championship History. If you go to "The Early Years", select 1963 or 1964 and select "the cars", there are even a couple fintails

seminole_kev

neat site! My baby's running around in there.....well with 0.4 extra liters. Good range of cars.

fintail

Yep...our cars were rivals

seminole_kev

I just wish they could put the past behind them ;-)

fintail

Hard to imagine this docile looking old beast could be driven so ferociously (show off time)

 



 

I think your car might have won...those Jags seem to be worth about 3x more than good injected fintails.

210delray

What year is yours?

 

There's a nice-looking black one similar to yours along one of the back roads around here.

fintail

It's a 64...220SE...in the last big production run of 6cyl injected fintails...the later cars like this are better IMO, with dual circuit discs and the 4 speed (non OD) auto. The design was introduced for the 1960 model year, and is clearly a product of the late 50s...most people think it is a little older than it is. Highline fintails were made through 65 model year, lowlines through 67.

 

 The color is simply called "bright blue" by MB, and it is an uncommon color. The colors for fintails tend to be black, white (esp on lowline cars) brown and grey. There are oddballs out there...there's a lovely dual carb (220S) fintail in my town in a light pastel green that suits the car as well as this blue. I've seen a few other blue ones of this shade, but usually on carb'd cars. The FI cars like mine made up about 7% of fintail production, so they are correspondingly harder to find.

 

You can tell them apart quite easily...by model position, if not year. The next time you see your local car, you can probably distinguish what it is. The year differences are almost invisible, consisting of a few trim and mechanical details. If you see a car with 4 headlights like mine, it's a 6cyl. If it has 2 lights, it is a 4cyl or diesel, except for the 6cyl '230' model that sold relatively few units from 65-67. Dual carb and FI models will have more chrome (on fins) and more chrome at rear. If you see one really decked out in chrome - full window frames, wheel well moldings, etc...it's probably a 300SE/SEL, the least common and highest spec fintail...they were air suspended and had a derivative of the 300SL gullwing engine.

andys120

Neat stuff, the Sixties were the golden era of sedan road racing. Thanks for that Fin.

 

Kev, you'll want to see the January '05 issue of Classic & Sports Car magazine with a great cover story on the Mk IIs as collectibles.

 

I came across some fun stuff about the wonderful creations of Carlo Abarth...

 

http://europeancarweb.com/features/0502ec_berni/

 

It's cars like those that make me think I wouldn't have missed the 60s for anything.

fintail

I think the 60s really were the most diverse and interesting time for cars.