I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

tjc78

If they doubled the speed of the video it would still feel slow!

andre1969

Sounds to me like it's doing the 1-2 upshift at 25 mph and the 2-3 at 40? That might be part of the problem there. I just checked the specs, and it looks like the 200 inline-6 used a 2.73:1 axle ratio. It's a fairly short stroke, at 3.13" so it seems to me that it would be an engine that wouldn't have a problem revving.

I wonder if a slightly quicker axle would have helped, to some degree. Mopar was still using its 225 slant six in 1983, in the Cordoba/Mirada, the Gran Fury/Diplomat, and, embarrassingly, the New Yorker 5th Avenue! It had a long stroke, something like 4.125" and tended to be known more for its low end torque than its desire to rev. Yet, they used a 2.94:1 with those cars.

Or, could they have just changed the shift points in the transmission, even? My '79 5th Ave will hold first until around 55 mph if I floor it from a standstill. Its gearing is even taller, using a 2.45:1 axle, but I dunno if that's really considered a huge difference. It's also a lot torquier though, so that might be part of why it can do that. So maybe with the 200-6, that's really all they could hope for from it?

Looking at the video, looks like it does 0-25 in about 5 seconds, 0-40 in about 12, and 0-60 in about 26-27? I tried counting it off in my head, and had come up with 0-40 in about 10, and 0-60 in about 22, but then went back and re-watched, and kept track of the time at the bottom, and realized I was being generous!

Back in college, one of my friends had a 1980 Accord hatchback. Automatic, and a/c, although the a/c didn't work. Figured I should mention it though because it still added weight, and if it was still connected, a bit of drag I guess. One day, with three of us on board, he stomped it and I timed it from 0-60 with a stopwatch, and it took about 26-27 seconds. While that's equally horrible, I'll cut the Accord some slack, because there were three of us on board. And that Accord, surprisingly, was a pretty good highway cruiser. Seemed to have no trouble maintaining 75-80 on the highway. That LTD in comparison seems like it would have trouble getting that high.

ab348

Funny thing though, if you remember the car magazines at the time praised the Fox-based LTD as a big improvement from the awful Granada that preceded it. I remember driving one around '85 or '86 and I guess it must have had the V6 as it drove decently enough. Apparently they came standard with the 2.3L 4-cylinder though I never saw one of those which must have been ridiculously awful. Then there was the V8 powered LX version which all the car mags loved.

andre1969

My grandparents had an '81 Granada with the 200 6-cyl and an '85 LTD with the 232 V6. They actually preferred the Granada! But, they also weren't trying to drag race it, push it through the slalom, etc like a car magazine test would. They were probably basing that on the Granada's style, the fact it was a 2-door, which they preferred, and it probably suited their leisurely driving style.

Was the big improvement with the LTD/Marquis mainly in the engine department, or was handling improved, as well? For instance, if you compared an '83 LTD to an '81-82 Granada, but both had the same 200 inline-6, would the LTD have been that much better of a car?

The 232 V6 started working its way into the Granada for '82, and was carried over to the LTD for '83. These earlier versions had 110-112 hp. I'm sure they weren't as good as the fuel-injected 232, which was putting out 119 hp by 1985, but they were probably a big jump over that 200 inline.

My 1985 Consumer Guide has a test of an '85 LTD, with the 232. They got 0-60 in 11.9 seconds. It stacked up fairly well to the Celebrity with the 2.8 2bbl V6 they tested (11.8 seconds) and even the Century Limited with the fuel-injected 125 hp 3.8 (11.5 seconds). They rated it as a "Best Buy", something the Celebrity and Century didn't get.

They summed up with "The midsized LTD is a pleasant car that does an excellent job of disguising its humble Fairmont origins. The suspension is supple, the V6 responsive, and the accommodations are comfortable.

Their main gripes were fuel economy (2 out of a possible 5), instruments/controls (2/5), and engine serviceability (2/5). For factors that I'd think are important, ride and handling, both were given a middling 3/5. However, the Century and Celebrity also scored 3/5 for ride and handling, so I guess that's about what you'd expect for this type of car.

sda

I am surprised Ford offered the 200 six as long as they did. It was a smooth running engine but never a good performer. The 250 six wasn't much better. I don't recall the 232 V6, but it sounds like it was a decent engine and performed considerably better than the 200. I guess the 232 was the 3.8, which Ford used extensively and earned a horrible reputation for head gasket issues? Scratch decent engine.

andre1969

Yeah, the 232 / 3.8 engine were one and the same, also known as the "Essex" V6. I've heard that Ford took a Buick 231 V6 and reverse-engineered it, and used that as sort of a pattern to build their own V6. But, those early Buick V6es weren't exactly the poster child for durability, either. However, despite its other problems (nylon mesh timing gear thingie, narrow, right-angle oil passages that easily clogged, a block that was really too lightweight for its own good, given the limitations of the time, etc) I don't think the Buick 231 was known for blowing head gaskets.

I do remember my grandparents' '85 LTD overheating when it was about two years old. They traded it in the fall of '88 for an '89 Taurus LX, so they didn't keep it long enough for it to develop any serious, expensive issues. The '89 Taurus LX did have that same design V6, just mounted transverse and now with 140 hp, but they traded it in the fall of '93, on a '94 Taurus GL, which had the 3.0 Vulcan. So again, they didn't keep it long term, or to high miles. I do remember Granddad saying that it started stalling out every once in awhile. And Grandmom was getting pretty sick by that time and had to go to the doctor fairly often, so he wanted something that would be reliable.

The 3.0 Vulcan was supposed to be a good, durable engine, if not exactly a powerhouse. However, I remember that Taurus tended to smell like coolant fairly frequently, in later years so I'm guessing it did develop a slight leak. It just never got driven enough, I'm guessing, for it to ever amount to anything serious. It only had about 40,000 miles on it by the time it was 10 years old, and that's when Granddad decided to give up driving. He offered to give it to me, but I didn't really need it. Instead, it went to one of my cousins, and he and his wife drove it until around 2009 or 2010. I forget what finally did it in, but they didn't take very good care of it. I think they got it to around 80,000 miles or so. I'm thinking the engine was still okay, but there were other issues. Plus it had gotten into a few minor accidents here and there.

I wonder why Ford didn't just lop two cylinders off the 302 to come up with a V6, like what GM did (and Chrysler finally got around to doing)?

sda

Unfortunately the Taurus/Sable had a frequent issue with a leaking heater core which fogged the interior windshield and provided a pungent smell. I understand the heater core was a 'bear' to replace. A very good friend of mine used to manage a charitable organization, church based, that accepted vehicle donations. Their goal was to refurbish, make street worthy and inspection passable vehicles and offer them to qualified candidates who could not afford a car and needed one to get to work. He said one of his favorites was the Taurus/Sable with the 3.0. Assuming the trans was good (which was a weak point on the 3.0) they were great. He said it could almost be a given if the donated car had the 3.8 it had a bad engine, but the trans was good!

tjc78

Out of all the Taurus problems, the heater core is one I didn’t have.

One universal truth on the 92-95 Taurus models is the 3.0 was much more reliable than the 3.8.

explorerx4

Both 3.0's?

tjc78

92-95 didn’t have the 3.0 DOHC did they?

explorerx4

@stickguy,
89-91 SHO 3.0. 92-95 SHO(actually 3.0 and 3.2).

sda

For my own fun, I was thinking back about how many domestic cars I've had and from which parent company. This does not include the imports I've had.
AMC 1
Chrysler 2
Ford 3
GM 14 with the most recent being a 2008

explorerx4

I know those pimped out 70's cars are a guilty pleasure for some of you, so here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50RO1o0qfbA

roadburner

sda said:

For my own fun, I was thinking back about how many domestic cars I've had and from which parent company. This does not include the imports I've had.
AMC 1
Chrysler 2
Ford 3
GM 14 with the most recent being a 2008

For me it's:
Ford- 2
GM-3
Chrysler(Jeep)- 1

stickguy

sda said:

For my own fun, I was thinking back about how many domestic cars I've had and from which parent company. This does not include the imports I've had.
AMC 1
Chrysler 2
Ford 3
GM 14 with the most recent being a 2008

I’ll cheat and count the Nova in HS that I never registered.

AMC -2.
Chrysler - 3
GM - 2 (said nova and Opel Manta)
Ford - 2 (Contour and Mystique)

And a whole slew of imports!

And quite possible I missed a domestic in there.

stickguy

And one Chrysler was a Dodge Colt, so even 2 of my domestics were actually imports!

andre1969

Do a Canadian-built Intrepid and a Mexican Ram count as imports?

roadburner

I didn't count my Plymouth Arrow, which was actually a Mitsubishi Celeste.

kyfdx

Ford (2)
Jeep (1)

I think that's it... Last one was purchased in 1980.

explorerx4

@roadburner,
Isn't your Jeep a '75? It was owned by AMC at that time.

explorerx4

A couple things I saw while out and about.

xwesx

sda said:

For my own fun, I was thinking back about how many domestic cars I've had and from which parent company. This does not include the imports I've had.
AMC 1
Chrysler 2
Ford 3
GM 14 with the most recent being a 2008

14! That's impressive.

Ford is definitely #1 in my domestic list. I think I've had five, including my first vehicle, which I still have.
GM and Chrysler are each one, and... that's it. (The GM was my second vehicle, and I still have that one, too!)

sda

xwesx said:

sda said:

For my own fun, I was thinking back about how many domestic cars I've had and from which parent company. This does not include the imports I've had.
AMC 1
Chrysler 2
Ford 3
GM 14 with the most recent being a 2008

14! That's impressive.

Ford is definitely #1 in my domestic list. I think I've had five, including my first vehicle, which I still have.
GM and Chrysler are each one, and... that's it. (The GM was my second vehicle, and I still have that one, too!)

I thoroughly enjoy cars. I'm a nut, thus the quick turnover of previous cars. I did flip a few and made a profit and two were project cars. Dad was quick to remind me ' a fool and his money soon part'. In the past 10 years, I am begrudgingly maintaining a conservative pace.

andre1969

I just added up the cars I've had over the years:
10 GM
11 Mopar

One of these days I need to try something new

uplanderguy

Total of 24 cars. I’ve bought 15 new Chevrolets since 1981 plus three two-year old Chevys. I bought one Chrysler and four Studebakers in that time. I will say I used to travel with work almost constantly so I’ve driven most makes and models as rentals.

I’m a consummate cheapskate. Still, I’ve only bought four new cars that were in the local dealer’s inventory (ordered one and did dealer trades for all remaining others) so I was specific about colors and options and always sought cars that I had pride of ownership in. Always kept them nice. Perhaps I’ve been lucky but I never once have bought an extended warranty.

Michaell

Ford - 4
GM - 5

andre1969

Looking back at my acquisition history, I've really slowed down in recent years. I got my provisional driver's license in December 1986, and since then I've gotten:

2 vehicles in the 80's
12 in the 90's
5 in the '00s
2 in the '10s (The Ram in 2012 and inherited the Regal in 2017)

Maybe I need to pick up the slack!

uplanderguy

Bought five in the eighties
Bought four in the nineties
Bought four in the 2000’s
Bought eleven in the 2010’s

tjc78

@explorerx4 said:
@stickguy,
89-91 SHO 3.0. 92-95 SHO(actually 3.0 and 3.2).

Wow, how could I forget the SHO. Shame on me.

tjc78

@sda said:
For my own fun, I was thinking back about how many domestic cars I've had and from which parent company. This does not include the imports I've had.
AMC 1
Chrysler 2
Ford 3
GM 14 with the most recent being a 2008

AMC - 0
Chrysler - 0
Ford - 5
GM - 5

stickguy

stickguy said:

sda said:

For my own fun, I was thinking back about how many domestic cars I've had and from which parent company. This does not include the imports I've had.
AMC 1
Chrysler 2
Ford 3
GM 14 with the most recent being a 2008

I’ll cheat and count the Nova in HS that I never registered.

AMC -2.
Chrysler - 3
GM - 2 (said nova and Opel Manta)
Ford - 2 (Contour and Mystique)

And a whole slew of imports!

And quite possible I missed a domestic in there.

Make that 3 GM. totally forgot my first car! 67 Camaro.

uplanderguy

I was given my parents’ old ‘77 Impala coupe in 1980 as a college graduation gift when they bought their new Monte Carlo so I guess I’ve had 25. Pretty sure the title didn’t transfer to me until I bought my new ‘81 Monte Carlo.

sda

Took me a minute to remember approx dates. My first car was purchased in early 1977 for $100 from a friend's dad. The list is domestics only. Imports expand the list considerably.

GM/ Other (AMC, Ford, Chrysler)
Years 77-79 2 / 1
1980s 5 / 2
1990s 1 / 3
2000s 6

xwesx

andre1969 said:

Looking back at my acquisition history, I've really slowed down in recent years. I got my provisional driver's license in December 1986, and since then I've gotten:

2 vehicles in the 80's
12 in the 90's
5 in the '00s
2 in the '10s (The Ram in 2012 and inherited the Regal in 2017)

Maybe I need to pick up the slack!

Makes sense since you still have most of them. There's only so much room!

xwesx

uplanderguy said:

Bought five in the eighties

Bought four in the nineties

Bought four in the 2000’s

Bought ten in the 2010’s

I admire that fairly consistent distribution through the first three decades! I acquired three in the '90s, seven in the 'oughts, and seven in the 'teens. One, so far, in the twenties.

Is that right?! Doesn't seem like enough. If correct, that's not bad. I still own a third of all the cars I have ever owned, and two of those buys weren't really keepers since one, a '73 F250, was a donor for my '76 F250, and the other, a 2008 Focus, I only had a few weeks while I did some reconditioning, then I gifted it to a friend. I didn't bother putting either one in my name.

xwesx

Okay, so I looked at my cheat sheet, and I was technically off by one. I've had two separate Econoline vans, with the second becoming my long-term keeper and the original (a 1971 model) becoming a donor for it. My father gave me the first one in 1991, and I bought the second for $400 in December of 1994.

andre1969

If I ever get another old car, I have my aspirations set towards a '61 or '62 Cadillac. But, if I went for something newer, and less pricey, I wouldn't mind some big battlecruiser Ford product from the 70's, or a Panther. Every once in awhile I'll see an '88-91 Crown Vic that just screams "Matlock", but I oddly appealing.

Lemko and I have both joked, from time to time, that one of us should get a Ford product, just so we would have something we could put in the Ford show at Carlisle! He used to have a Grand Marquis, a 2006 I believe, but that's been gone for awhile now. I have a friend who went through two Mark V Diamond Jubilees, but he sold the last one a few years ago, so now, among my group of local car friends, we are now, alas, Ford-less.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
Isn't your Jeep a '75? It was owned by AMC at that time.

No- a 1999; a Daimler Chrysler.

uplanderguy

I bought three Studebakers in the 2010’s and bought five used cars for my kids in the 2010’s. I only have two kids but both of them were involved in total accidents which resulted in me in buying two replacement cars.

kyfdx

2 (70s)
3 (80s)
7 (90s)
6 (00s)
10 (10s)
1 (20s)

explorerx4

@roadburner,
Got it mixed up, you had a 75 BMW(?). My bad.

stickguy

if I wanted to figure out total by decades, I would have to dig up the spreadsheet (and ballpark a few).

xwesx

andre1969 said:

If I ever get another old car, I have my aspirations set towards a '61 or '62 Cadillac. But, if I went for something newer, and less pricey, I wouldn't mind some big battlecruiser Ford product from the 70's, or a Panther. Every once in awhile I'll see an '88-91 Crown Vic that just screams "Matlock", but I oddly appealing.

Lemko and I have both joked, from time to time, that one of us should get a Ford product, just so we would have something we could put in the Ford show at Carlisle! He used to have a Grand Marquis, a 2006 I believe, but that's been gone for awhile now. I have a friend who went through two Mark V Diamond Jubilees, but he sold the last one a few years ago, so now, among my group of local car friends, we are now, alas, Ford-less.

I'll give you the Econoline on long-term loan if you promise to keep it in your garage warehouse.

tjc78

@andre1969 said:
If I ever get another old car, I have my aspirations set towards a '61 or '62 Cadillac. But, if I went for something newer, and less pricey, I wouldn't mind some big battlecruiser Ford product from the 70's, or a Panther. Every once in awhile I'll see an '88-91 Crown Vic that just screams "Matlock", but I oddly appealing.

Lemko and I have both joked, from time to time, that one of us should get a Ford product, just so we would have something we could put in the Ford show at Carlisle! He used to have a Grand Marquis, a 2006 I believe, but that's been gone for awhile now. I have a friend who went through two Mark V Diamond Jubilees, but he sold the last one a few years ago, so now, among my group of local car friends, we are now, alas, Ford-less.

If you are going Panther… my list

88-89 Town Car (Sig or Cartier)
82-83 Mark VI Signature or Designer series (2DR)
86-87 MGM 2DR
95-97 Town Car
04 Marauder

If you are going barge -
78 Mark V DJE
77 Continental Coupe or Sedan with the 460 (waterfall grill and Lincoln exclusive dash)
79 Continental Collectors Series Sedan or Mark V CS

stickguy

Fairmont V8, 5 speed. Be different.

fintail

Continental Mark VII or bustleback Continental sedan with the BMW diesel, be really different.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
Got it mixed up, you had a 75 BMW(?). My bad.

Yes, a 1975 2002.

fintail

For cars actually purchased in my name rather than family-owned cars driven etc:

90s: 1
00s: 3
10s: 4

All the same brand

tjc78

@fintail said:
Continental Mark VII or bustleback Continental sedan with the BMW diesel, be really different.

A guy on the Panther forum has a Conti Diesel. It was featured on one of the YouTube channels. Interesting car.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsjEZ42Dycs

xwesx

fintail said:

For cars actually purchased in my name rather than family-owned cars driven etc:

90s: 1
00s: 3
10s: 4

All the same brand

That's impressive on multiple levels.

It probably helps that it is just you and you've generally lived life in the "big city," but I wouldn't mind having owned that few cars.