I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348

texases said:

explorerx4 said:

Nice looking LTD. Looks like it has some added custom gauges.

That is a very unusual set of gauges, but the installation looks a lot better than any aftermarket ones I've seen, and the gauge faces look factory.

That’s part of the reason I included the pic of the sales order. It lists something called a “safety control panel” which I think might be that gauge package. Suspect it was created by the dealer unless it was a very unusual Fomoco offering. The gauge faces do look like factory units though.

texases

@ab348 said:
That’s part of the reason I included the pic of the sales order. It lists something called a “safety control panel” which I think might be that gauge package. Suspect it was created by the dealer unless it was a very unusual Fomoco offering. The gauge faces do look like factory units though.

That might explain the holes in that gauge panel. Maybe they’re for additional switches.

mrwhipple311

ab348 said:

Over on the FB "All Original Cars" page, this unicorn '65 LTD popped up today. Just amazing to look at how well this was preserved. 390, 4-speed, just lovely. I prefer the '66 to the '65 usually, but this is just great.

Wonder if that was someone who wanted performance or a Luddite who just didn't trust those newfangled 3 speed automatic transmissions; (those things are just too complicated!!)

uplanderguy

I thought that panel was an aftermarket or dealer add-on. It is a very interesting Ford for sure. I sent pics of the car to a friend whose Dad and uncle owned a small-town Ford dealer in IL from '64 to '66. He, like me, was amazed the dealer only required a $50 deposit for an order for a car equipped like that.

The "Safety Control Panel" is not that big addition under the dash....friend sent me this page of the brochure which shows what it was:

https://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/ford/65ford/15.html

More I think about it, I doubt even the dealer did that big add-on piece. I bet an owner along the way made it.

Looking at that link, at the instrument panel, reminds me how used to one gets with a manufacturer's way of doing things. I find it mildly funny that the radio and instruments et al are in the same panel, but the right turn signal indicator is to the right of the radio. It's still a good-looking panel. I like it better than the '67 and '69-70 panels.

uplanderguy

Apparently that Safety Control Panel was sacrificed when the A/C was added at a later point.

imidazol97

Scorpio. Somewhat like this with gaudy, oversized rear lights.
Didn't look rusted out. In traffic so I couldn't get a picture
even if I could have gotten my phone out before the driver turned.

kyfdx

Wow... that was rare, when new. Really rare, now.

fintail

One of those attempts to bring an everyday Euro car to NA and market it as something upscale (see also, Catera).

On a reverse note, spotted a Saablazer yesterday.

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

Scorpio. Somewhat like this with gaudy, oversized rear lights.
Didn't look rusted out. In traffic so I couldn't get a picture
even if I could have gotten my phone out before the driver turned.

We had one; a nice car and a legitimate competitor to the lower horsepower E28 5ers. Problem was, it cost more to maintain than my E28 535is.

sda

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:

Scorpio. Somewhat like this with gaudy, oversized rear lights.
Didn't look rusted out. In traffic so I couldn't get a picture
even if I could have gotten my phone out before the driver turned.

We had one; a nice car and a legitimate competitor to the lower horsepower E28 5ers. Problem was, it cost more to maintain than my E28 535is.

I really liked those when they came out. The leather interior was very impressive. They were relatively expensive cars. Who knew the LM dealer had them parked in the back row. That’s the way to generate sales!?

uplanderguy

I had four-door Merkurs for rentals back in the day. I believe they were that model, unless another sedan was imported into the U.S., but I'm thinking not.

Those are some tall taillights!

fintail

Yep, only one 4 door Merkur.

It was simply a Ford Scorpio in Europe.

uplanderguy said:

I had four-door Merkurs for rentals back in the day. I believe they were that model, unless another sedan was imported into the U.S., but I'm thinking not.

Those are some tall taillights!

stickguy

there were only 2 Merkurs before the subbrand name went the way of the Edsel. 4 door Scorpio, and 2 door XR4Ti. Or technically 3 and 5, since they were both hatchbacks! the X was a version of the Ford Sierra.

roadburner

sda said:

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:

Scorpio. Somewhat like this with gaudy, oversized rear lights.
Didn't look rusted out. In traffic so I couldn't get a picture
even if I could have gotten my phone out before the driver turned.

We had one; a nice car and a legitimate competitor to the lower horsepower E28 5ers. Problem was, it cost more to maintain than my E28 535is.

I really liked those when they came out. The leather interior was very impressive. They were relatively expensive cars. Who knew the LM dealer had them parked in the back row. That’s the way to generate sales!?

In the '80s Lincoln dealers didn't even have the tiniest shred of a clue about how to sell cars to anyone who had all their own teeth and didn't own white shoes with a matching belt. Back in 1982 I was considering buying a new V8 Mustang GT or Capri RS(this was at the beginning of the current high performance era, when a car that went from 0 to 60 in under 7 seconds was really fast). I stopped in at a local L-M dealer and asked a salesman when they were going to get a V8 Capri. He told me that the V8 got poor gas mileage and therefore would be in very low demand- and that if I wanted one it would have to be special ordered.
Moron.

explorerx4

Turns out the salesman was right. Capri only sold about 31k in 1982, down over 1/3 from 1981.

andre1969

'82 was a bad year in general, and the domestic auto industry as a whole pretty much bottomed out in the 1982-83 timeframe. There were still a lot of buyers who wanted a more powerful car, but even if the buyer could afford the fuel bill, the auto makers didn't want to cough up for those EPA/CAFE fines, so they tried to wean us off of bigger, thirstier engines.

For comparison, the Mustang's sales dropped from around 182K in 1981 to 130K in 1982, not quite a 1/3 drop. However, one bright spot was the Mustang GT, which managed to sell about 23,000 units, all with a standard 157 hp 302. That engine was optional across the board. It had been absent in 1980 and 1981, leaving just the small 255 if you wanted a V8, or the turbo 4-cyl, if you wanted any resemblance of performance.

For 1983, Mustang sales dropped a little more, to around 120K, although they recovered a bit to 141K by 1984, by which time the economy was rolling again.

I think the Camaro and Firebird might have had an effect on Mustang sales back then, too. The '81 Camaro sold around 126K units, but the new '82 design was a hit, at 181K, despite '82 being such a miserable year in general. It did contract to around 153K for 1983, but then came roaring back in '84, with around 251K units sold.

roadburner

andre1969 said:

'82 was a bad year in general, and the domestic auto industry as a whole pretty much bottomed out in the 1982-83 timeframe. There were still a lot of buyers who wanted a more powerful car, but even if the buyer could afford the fuel bill, the auto makers didn't want to cough up for those EPA/CAFE fines, so they tried to wean us off of bigger, thirstier engines.

For comparison, the Mustang's sales dropped from around 182K in 1981 to 130K in 1982, not quite a 1/3 drop. However, one bright spot was the Mustang GT, which managed to sell about 23,000 units, all with a standard 157 hp 302. That engine was optional across the board. It had been absent in 1980 and 1981, leaving just the small 255 if you wanted a V8, or the turbo 4-cyl, if you wanted any resemblance of performance.

For 1983, Mustang sales dropped a little more, to around 120K, although they recovered a bit to 141K by 1984, by which time the economy was rolling again.

I think the Camaro and Firebird might have had an effect on Mustang sales back then, too. The '81 Camaro sold around 126K units, but the new '82 design was a hit, at 181K, despite '82 being such a miserable year in general. It did contract to around 153K for 1983, but then came roaring back in '84, with around 251K units sold.

Exactly- the Mustang GT and Capri RS were the models that sold- and the dimwitted salesman was only wanting to sell the glacially slow models.
I was actually excited about the 1982 Z28- until road tests showed it was not much quicker-if at all-than my 1979 Arrow GT 2.6.

explorerx4

Capri sales dropped about 40% from 82 to 83 and down another20% from 83 to 84.
Every year after 79 trended down.

andre1969

I just looked up Mercury sales in general for 1982, and, wow...I had forgotten they had fallen that far. Here's a quick rundown:

Lynx: 119K
LN7: 35K
Capri: 36K
Zephyr: 39K
Cougar: 56K (the Granada clone)
Cougar XR-7: 17K (the T-bird clone)
Marquis: 76K

For a grand total of 378K.

Unfortunately, my book doesn't break out sales of the Capri. I'd be curious as to how many were the 302 model.

andre1969

Motorweek tested a 1982 Challenger with the 2.6. Here's their review of it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTV3CLb3gTg

They didn't do 0-60 testing that year, but did do a 0-500 ft test, where they clocked 9.8 seconds @ 58 mph. So I guess you could essentially round that off and say 0-60 in about 10 seconds. I'd imagine that a lighter Arrow with the same engine was downright fun, for that era of car.

andre1969

explorerx4 said:

Capri sales dropped about 40% from 82 to 83 and down another20% from 83 to 84.
Every year after 79 trended down.

It's kind of curious that the Capri went nowhere but down, even after the economy started to recover. It's odd that its best sales years were fuel crisis/recession type years (I think the '79 oil embargo hit in January of '79?), but once the fuel is cheap and easy-flowing again, and other sporty/performance cars start taking off, the Capri continues to dwindle?

I couldn't find any year-to-year sales data, but according to Wikipedia, about 513,000 of the German Capri were sold in the US from 1970-1978. That seems to be a pretty impressive number, for something that had to share the showroom floor with Marquises and Continentals and such. And then, initially the '79 fox-based model seemed to have potential. But, maybe your typical Mercury buyer just aged out of that type of car, and they weren't doing so well at bringing in younger buyers? Ford, Chevy, and Pontiac were able to keep luring in new buyers for their Mustangs, Camaros, and Firebirds for awhile, but as a whole, their whole lineups were more youthful. In fact, at Pontiac it was the more old-fashioned types of cars, like the RWD Grand Prix, Bonneville-G, and Parisienne that were slowly fading away, while Mercury seemed to rely much more heavily on those types of cars.

Or I wonder, did Ford themselves decide to throttle back production of the Capri, and focus on the Mustang?

explorerx4

I was off the percentages of the decline, but here are the numbers.
Fox Body Mercury Capri 1979-1986 Production 1979 90,850 1980 62,592 1981 47,151 1982 31,280 1983 22,708 1984 17,739 1985 15,389 1986 12,647

andre1969

Considering the tastes of US car buyers, and especially Mercury buyers, I wonder if the Scorpio would have sold better if they had imported the notchback version, instead of the hatchback?
Although, maybe not. For some reason, this notchback manages to make me think of a Benz, and a Tempo/Topaz, at the same time, and that's probably not an easy thing to do!

roadburner

@andre1969 said:
Motorweek tested a 1982 Challenger with the 2.6. Here's their review of it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTV3CLb3gTg

They didn't do 0-60 testing that year, but did do a 0-500 ft test, where they clocked 9.8 seconds @ 58 mph. So I guess you could essentially round that off and say 0-60 in about 10 seconds. I'd imagine that a lighter Arrow with the same engine was downright fun, for that era of car.

It really was a fun car; decent power from an OHC motor, five speed manual, and four wheel disc brakes. It was pretty advanced for the time

andre1969

Yesterday I got my '79 5th Ave started, and moved it into the new garage. I had been keeping it in a structure that was sort of an open-ended garage, that it barely fit in. It was enough to keep most of the weather off of it, although stray cats and raccoons tended to climb on it, dust and other stuff got on it, and birds would pick a fight with themselves in the mirrors and crap all down the sides (until I put bags over the mirrors). Anyway now, finally, the whole fleet's all together!

stickguy

nice. love the garage.

don't you have a Blue Mopar sedan too? Or did you get rid of that one?

sda

Did you get rid of the dark blue New Yorker and your Park Avenue? Garage looks great. All that room, I’m in awe!

andre1969

sda said:

Did you get rid of the dark blue New Yorker and your Park Avenue? Garage looks great. All that room, I’m in awe!

Oops...kinda forgot about those two. The Park Ave is currently sitting in my grandmother's driveway. I need to get rid of it, just been procrastinating. The blue New Yorker is still in the garage at my old place, with a flat tire. It has a few parts on it I want to swap with the 5th Avenue, and after I get around to that, I'm debating on whether I want to keep it around as a parts car, or get it back to the point it's road-worthy again, or just get rid of it. There's enough room in the new garage that I could put it in there, with plenty of room to spare...but I'm trying to wean myself off of that hoarding mentality!

Speaking of hoarding...here's one thing I can't figure out. When I put the Rally 2 wheels on the Catalina, I saved its old steel rims. And when I got rid of my old Gran Fury copcar, I was positive that I had kept all five copcar rims (the four on the car and the spare), and just put junk rims on it. But, when I was cleaning out the old garage, I could only find three copcar rims, and three of the Catalina's original rims. Odd.

explorerx4

Isn't that just a trick of the mind, a bigger garage makes your collection look smaller?

stickguy

you check the trunk for the missing wheels?

uplanderguy

Boy, lots of space to add to your collection!

About 30 years ago (is that real?), I kept my Lark in a barn which I rented space along with other old-car owners. I had a NOS front piece stored there away from the car--the surround around the headlights and grille--that i'd purchased in South Bend. In the spring it was gone. I hadn't even paid $50 for it, but it wouldn't have done most anybody else any good. I did wonder if the big grille opening in the center made somebody think it might've been for a Mercedes, LOL.

uplanderguy

The taillights on that Merkur remind me of the 'stacked' headlights on the Wagon Queen Family Truckster!

uplanderguy

I haven't seen this commercial on TV yet, but it hits me square in all the right places.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/q__0/chevrolet-happy-holidays-moms-car-t1?fbclid=IwAR34gDwiZ_RiyNGEAJdhweopSo6279og2LYudSl_n8Xh-ibC8foBn3zD9pQ

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

I haven't seen this commercial on TV yet, but it hits me square in all the right places.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/q__0/chevrolet-happy-holidays-moms-car-t1?fbclid=IwAR34gDwiZ_RiyNGEAJdhweopSo6279og2LYudSl_n8Xh-ibC8foBn3zD9pQ

Priceless! Thanks for posting.

stickguy

I saw that. Storing top down in a barn. Not going to end well.

uplanderguy

I do have one nit to pick--the "Super Sport" nameplates on the front fenders are too high! LOL

The one guy at the car show downtown reminds me of Jon Voight, but I know he's too young to be him.

andre1969

stickguy said:

I saw that. Storing top down in a barn. Not going to end well.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Actually, seeing it stored in that type of barn, with those gaps between the boards letting in all sorts of vermin and such, bothered me too. I'd at least put a cover over it to keep the dust off, and have plenty of mothballs and mouse traps scattered about! But, it's just a commercial.

A few years back, when I was looking at open houses, and found this one that backed to a tidal creek in Southern Maryland that I kind of liked. Well, the house did have a two-car garage, but there was a small staircase and landing that went up to the door to go in the house, that really cut one of the spaces short. However, there was a separate building, a small, ramshackle barn-type structure. that was big enough to put a couple cars in.

I remember the real estate agent showing the house got huffy with me when she asked how I liked it and I said that I really needed something with more garage space because I had antique cars. She said "that's what the barn is for."

When I said "You don't put a '57 DeSoto in something like THAT," I could tell that she was having trouble processing what I just said and didn't know how to respond. I just picked up the vibe that she thought I felt I was "too good" for this house. And not in the least, it's just that the house, as is, didn't fit my needs.

Oh, I found a pic of the barn...

It actually looks better in this pic, than I remember it being in person.

andre1969

stickguy said:

you check the trunk for the missing wheels?

I know they're not in any of the four cars I already have over here...but it just hit me, maybe I put them in the trunk of the blue NYer, for whatever reason? I don't know why I'd separate the wheels like that, but I've done stranger things in my life!

imidazol97

This is an ad. Having the top down adds to the attractiveness of the car, and the thought.
All the fake dust on the car adds to the message of having aged in the barn.

Were this reality, like some are saying, the top should have been up. The car should have
been covered. The wheels should have been set up on blocks so the rubber is off the ground.
The mouse traps and vermin traps should have been set. The battery tender should have
been turned on, or the battery removed from the vehicle.


Ideally cars should be stored in a garage without cracks between the boards and with
a concrete floor, but still the traps and rodent killers are needed to protect the soft parts.

uplanderguy

RE.: that ad--love 'em or hate 'em, I do think Chevrolet has the biggest nostalgia factor to most Americans of a certain age. Really, where I live, it is a shared common-ground thing, even among non-car people. This ad hones right in on all that IMHO.

uplanderguy

I remember someone telling me that a barn was ideal storage, with the wooden floors and off the ground. I certainly agree about the critter worries though of course.

stickguy

You don’t want moisture coming up from the ground. Rust it out from underneath.

andre1969

The biggest critter infestation I had in my old garage was, of all things, lizards. Specifically, I think they were called blue-tailed skinks. I don't think they really hurt anything, but as I was going through old boxes and bins over there, it seems like they would get into all sorts of things, and die. I don't know if it was that they got into something and couldn't get back out and starved to death, or that perhaps they came in to hibernate, but it was still too cold and it killed them?

Mice were always an ongoing problem, but I would keep traps set for them.

uplanderguy

Most barns around here seem to be ones you drive up into, and they have a basement area underneath them, so you store your cars on a wooden floor with several feet of air circulating under it. The critter gaps are usually quite large though, LOL. I store mine on concrete, but even concrete sweats. Better than parking it on the ground though of course.

andre1969

When they were building my garage, they put down sheets of plastic before they poured the concrete, so hopefully that will help somewhat, with moisture coming up from the ground. I'm guessing that epoxy garage floor paint I've been putting down should helps some, too?

On the paint bucket, the instructions said to test the concrete, by putting down some clear plastic food wrap, letting it sit for 24 hours, and see if it trapped any condensation. I did that and it was nice and dry the next day, so hopefully I'll be good.

explorerx4

Good commercial, too bad it was a 66 Impala, not one of my favorites. A 65 would have been better.

ab348

The casting of the commercial made it a bit confusing at first watch because the first of the good ol' boys the daughter approached to restore the car looked a lot at first glance like the dad. But it made more sense upon a second watch. I guess you had to believe the dad only visited the barn once a year too.

uplanderguy

At first watch, my initial reaction was that the Dad didn't buy the mom the car in 1966, but later. But a friend of mine thinks otherwise.

I can sincerely say I haven't enjoyed a car commercial as much since probably the one (which was a true story) where the son found his Dad's old yellow '65 Impala SS coupe and bought it back for him. The commercial was where the Dad saw it.

xwesx

andre1969 said:

Yesterday I got my '79 5th Ave started, and moved it into the new garage. I had been keeping it in a structure that was sort of an open-ended garage, that it barely fit in. It was enough to keep most of the weather off of it, although stray cats and raccoons tended to climb on it, dust and other stuff got on it, and birds would pick a fight with themselves in the mirrors and crap all down the sides (until I put bags over the mirrors). Anyway now, finally, the whole fleet's all together!

Wow; four huge cars, and they look relatively small in that garage! Well done.

xwesx

andre1969 said:

When they were building my garage, they put down sheets of plastic before they poured the concrete, so hopefully that will help somewhat, with moisture coming up from the ground. I'm guessing that epoxy garage floor paint I've been putting down should helps some, too?

On the paint bucket, the instructions said to test the concrete, by putting down some clear plastic food wrap, letting it sit for 24 hours, and see if it trapped any condensation. I did that and it was nice and dry the next day, so hopefully I'll be good.

It depends on the temperatures and humidity while you were doing the test. If the humidity was high and temps warmed significantly over the day the plastic was down, then there was no moisture the next morning, you're probably good because the water holding capacity would have gone significantly by morning. However, if it was a cool day without much variation, or if humidity levels were low, then you probably wouldn't get enough moisture release for it to condense in there.

I think you waited long enough, though, that the concrete likely drove off the moisture by then.