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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Kind of a love/hate thing for me, too. I really like the tall greenhouse and visibility in those, and the dashboard is an interesting design. Material quality might not be pleasing though, and the engine note.
    tjc78 said:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Old Euro cars can really be fun, as most didn't have yearly design changes. Even into the 60s, there's no visible difference between cars with a several year gap.
    xwesx said:

    fintail said:

    The older stuff can be tough. Sometimes I can link a shape to a maker, but model or year is a guess.

    texases said:

    That's funny. I think the cars we grew up with, or take a special interest in, we know. The others 'all look the same'. For me, many early fifties cars all look the same.

    That's the truth! Take, for example, the current set of sport coupes that @andys120 has on the mystery car pix thread.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    On that display of "lookalike" cars, the only ones I think really look alike are the Ford and the Mercury and well, they ARE the same cars! I think the Olds and Chevy could be said in the pics, that they look somewhat alike, once the Olds went to round wheel openings in '80, but in person, I could never mistake them.

    I liked the Lumina Euro coupe better than the Z34--didn't have the extra vents and quite the graphics, but either's rare on the ground to see around here. I do believe I posted here a '90 coupe in turquoise with the awful silver-painted flat 'Euro' wheelcovers, maybe a year or so ago. Other than that, it looked pretty good. I'd have had to have the polished aluminum wheels though.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    A '65 Pontiac on the 'All Original Cars' FB page, that I'm totally smitten with.

    The exterior colors match my first brother-in-law's parents' '65 Grand Prix, which I loved. I did like the Bonneville's fastback roof and 'regular' taillights better, though.

    We've discussed the sometimes awkward proportions the longer Star Chief and Bonneville wheelbase had, but as andre I think said here, for some reason the '65 and later cars tended to hide
    that better. Perhaps the fastback roof helped.

    So, so unusual to see a Bonneville Hardtop with the buckets and console. In fact, I'm not sure, but I'm thinking perhaps '65 was the first year they were offered on a coupe. They'd been offered on the Bonneville convertible for a few years before that.

    30K miles on this car when these 2018 pics were taken.

    Just lovely. There's not another GM full-size that year, well, at least, Chevy/Olds/Buick, that I'd take over this car.

    Something a little funky about the LF wheel opening molding, but if that's the only thing I can nitpick...




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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    Just noticed that the wheel says "Grand Prix", LOL.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    That '65 is a beautiful car. And yeah, I think there's just something about the more rakish rear windows, and thicker C-pillars, of the '65 and later models that help make the Bonneville/Star Chief look better proportioned. It's almost like with the '59-64 models, they designed the short wheelbase version first, and then decided to just do the bare minimum, to make the longer one.

    But with the '65-70, it seems like they put more thought into coming up with a design that would work well with both the longer and the shorter wheelbase models. In fact, while my '67 Catalina looks "normal" to me for the most part, there's been a few times, at the GM show in Carlisle, where there would be a '67 Bonneville convertible parked right next to it, and suddenly to my eye, the Catalina looked stubby. Almost as if the Bonneville was the default design, and then they just shrunk it up quickly to make the Catalina!

    Buick did a similar thing with the Wildcat vs the LeSabre, as I recall. I think the wheelbases were 123" for the LeSabre, 126" for the Wildcat, and it was only '65-68? Buick seemed to do a better job at hiding that extra length than Pontiac. At least, when I look at pictures of the two, it doesn't jump out at me, where they stuck the added wheelbase, like it does on a Pontiac. But that could also be that I'm just more familiar with Pontiacs and have been around them more than Buicks of that era.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I wonder...if you want to just add length to design somewhat "quick and dirty" like how Pontiac did with the Bonneville versus the Catalina, would it be cheaper and easier to stretch it out in the back, like what Pontiac did, or to stretch out in front, ahead of the firewall?

    For '71-72, the Catalina was on a 123.5" wb, while the Bonneville and Grand Ville were on a 126". For '73 they all went to 124.0". In this case though, the extra 2.5" was tacked on ahead of the firewall, so you got a slightly longer hood and fenders. It's a bit subtle, because even the Catalina's front clip is pretty long, but if you look closely at both, you'll see it eventually. I have a feeling though, that it was too subtle, hence all of them going to the same wheelbase for '73. The Grand Ville (and then the Bonneville in '75) still managed to look like bigger cars, but I think that's because of their rooflines, which were sort of the C-body Electra/Ninety-Eight/DeVille, crammed onto a shorter body.

    I guess, too, that the '73 bumper regulations could have had something to do with it. According to the brochure, a '72 Catalina was already 222.4" long, while a Bonneville or Grand Ville was 226.2" The '73 models were all 224.8" long, while the '74 models were 226.0". So perhaps the folks at Pontiac figured the 126" wb car, with 5-mph bumpers worked into the design, would be too long?

    Actually, I'm impressed that those crash bumpers didn't add more to the overall length of these cars. And I always wondered about that subtle difference in wheelbase, of the 123.5" versus 124"? Did GM simply do something to the suspension for '73, that made the wheelbase just a bit longer? Or did they actually stretch the frame 1/2"?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    All good questions, as usual!

    Not too long ago I saw a '72 Pontiac salesman's training video. They were talking about the Catalina Brougham having the 'Bonneville interior', which is absolutely true, and that prospects should be shown how the Bonneville and Grand Ville were longer than a Catalina, and that 'the customer can see this looking out at the hood from inside the car', or something quite like that.

    I did know the Wildcat was a longer wheelbase than the LeSabre, but I never really noticed it all that much. For some reason, on pillared sedans the extra length of Star Chiefs was usually noticeable to me, but there wasn't a pillared-sedan Bonneville until '68, and it seems like I never saw many Wildcat pillared sedans at all.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I always notice that extra length on the 4-door Bonneville/Star Chief, versus the Catalina, in that little spacer area between the rear door and the rear wheel opening. It's the same door, so they had to make that little spacer area bigger, where in contrast on something like an Electra/Ninety-Eight versus the LeSabre/88, the whole structure aft of the B-pillar (rear doors, sheetmetal, etc) was all different, so they could blend it in better.

    With the 2-door models, the length isn't quite as noticeable to me, because the extra wheelbase can "hide" a bit better in the sheetmetal of the rear quarter, ahead of the wheel opening, since there's no other seams to reference against, as there are when there's a rear door there. But you can still tell, because of the position of the C-pillar, in relation to the rear axle.

    Something else I just thought of...with the Bonneville/Star Chief, they not only added the 3" of wheelbase, but also stuck a few inches out in back, on top of that. For instance, my '67 Catalina is 215.6" on a 121" wb, whereas a Bonneville or Star Chief Executive was 222.6" on a 124" wb. So there was 3 more wheelbase, PLUS 4" of overhang. In contrast, a '67 LeSabre was 217.5" on a 123" wb, while the Wildcat was 220.5" on a 126" wb. So while the Wildcat was longer, in wheelbase and length, it wasn't as exaggerated as a Bonneville or Star Chief/Executive. So maybe that's why the Wildcat doesn't jump out as being so much bigger than a LeSabre...because it isn't!

    Also, I'm wondering if the Wildcat didn't put those extra 3" up front, ahead of the firewall? It can sometimes be hard to tell in pictures because they can get distorted, but here's two pics I'm trying to compare...



    Neither is exactly petite, and I think that "hockey stick" trim piece on the Wildcat might trick the eye a bit, but to me it looks like the extra wheelbase on the Wildcat is ahead of the firewall, resulting in a longer fender, between the wheel opening and door.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    Guessing only, but my guess is the extra inches in the Wildcat is up front, from those pics. Of course with that totally unnecessary 'hockey stick' molding, who can tell for sure?!!
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I always liked the translucent steering wheel sections on period Pontiacs.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    That Bonneville just blows holes in my normal "I'm not crazy for big cars" general theory. :)

    Besides the colors outside, it's the buckets and console in a Bonneville hardtop thing, quite unusual.

    My guess is that car was ordered that way.

    How the Grand Prix steering wheel center made it to the customer is the kind of thing that used to frustrate me. As the original owner, I'd have had that fixed.
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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,659
    My mother had a '67 Bonneville coupe. White on white leather. Looked like a spaceship!

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    andre, BTW, I posted my remarks about the Wildcat's 'hockey stick' molding and that I thought that added length was in the front, before I saw your very similar comments under the pics of the two '67's!
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    Happy Thanksgiving from the Carl E. Filer Co., Greenville, PA! Nov. 22, 1955 photo. "Better Than The Mayflower!".



    Photo courtesy Filer family.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    Pilgrims land at Plymouth Rock
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited November 2021
    LOL uplander, I guess great minds think alike! I had started to type a smart-[non-permissible content removed] comment yesterday, about how they should have taken that "hockey stick" out, and put in something more appropriate, like some fake vents, because I know how much you LOVE those :p
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    That Wildcat would look great with just a rocker molding--even blacked-out. I like the individual "WILDCAT" lettering...classy.

    I guess stylists back then just couldn't leave well-enough alone sometimes, in an effort to go 'upscale', LOL.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    My aunt and her husband bought a new '67 LeSabre two-door hardtop; light aqua color. I liked it at the time but they traded on a new '69 Ford Country Sedan. I remember my uncle saying at the time that the V8 needed rebuilt by then already, which in hindsight seems a bit hard to believe.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Hoping everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving!

    And, on the subject of giving thanks, let's all be thankful that cars have come a long way since this...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7_aaVqOI0c

    They didn't give a 0-60 time, but did a 500-foot acceleration test, where it took 10.7 seconds, and was doing 51 mph. Quarter mile was 21.3 seconds @ 68 mph.

    I wonder it it's possible to extrapolate a 0-60 time from those statistics. I'm going to guess about 14.5-15.0 seconds? To come at that conclusion, I just looked up a few old road tests, and it looked like the 0-60 times were about 34-39% longer than 0-50. Those tests though, were of a '79 LTD and Caprice (351 vs 350) and an '80 rematch (302 vs 305).

    Despite the sucky engine and performance, I actually find this car oddly appealing. I think it might be partially because it seems like it's the least common. I just looked up sales figures, and it didn't do too bad for '82. Roughly 74,000 Regal sedans sold, versus 71,000 Malibu sedans, 64,000 Bonneville-Gs, and 94,000 Cutlass Supreme sedans.

    But, it just seems like they disappeared from the streets much more quickly than the others. The Bonneville-G, however, lasted through '86 and the Cutlass Supreme sedan through '87, while the Regal was dropped after '84, so that might be one reason why it seems to me the Bonneville/Cutlass were a more common sight.

    I wonder if too much reliance on junky engines was also a problem, though? These cars never got a V8 in '82-84, with the exception of the Olds Diesel 350, so that just left the Buick 231 and 252 V6es, and neither was known for durability. The Bonneville didn't have a V6 either in '82, but used a 305 from '83 onward. The Malibu offered 267 and 305 V8s, while the Cutlass offered 260 and 307 V8s. And the Malibu's 229 V6 while weak, was at least fairly durable.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,350
    you might like this video. Skip the part about the repairs and get to the test drive. Their descriptions of the driving dynamics and features on the car is hysterical.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwfxI2KpHUQ

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I was always curious about how something equipped with the Ford 255 V8 would have performed. Well, now I know...and as the old song goes "Wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then..."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6AyUHEc6E0

    Their 0-500 foot test took 10.4 seconds, at 51 mph. Same speed as the Regal above, but slightly quicker time. And quarter mile in 20.8 seconds @ 69 mph.

    I'm surprised that the Regal and this LTD are so close in weight. They said the test weight of the Regal was around 3400 lb, wheras this LTD was around 3700 lb. I figured there'd be a bigger spread than that, especially considering GM's midsized cars got criticized for using frames that were too under-sized and weak. Unless, that was just the rear frame rails, and not the whole frame? They also mentioned the Regal was pretty fully loaded, whereas the LTD was a more basic model, but still...

    I also like the comment "...and windows that ACTUALLY roll down" in reference to the back seat area. A not-so-subtle jab at GM, perhaps?
  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,580
    Dad’s 85 Grand Marquis with the 302 didn’t feel much quicker. It was a comfortable and pleasant driver. The tall greenhouse provided good visibility and was easy to maneuver in traffic.

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  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,580
    @andre1969 MotorWeek live retro marathon on U Tube now. Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving 🦃

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited November 2021
    I'll admit I've always thought the A wagon was a nice looking design. Amazing that it soldiered on until 1996, although knowing period GM, not amazing, and it had a captive audience of octogenarians no doubt.

    Those performance numbers are amusing, makes me think of our Tempo.

    Looks like those small V8 domestics didn't perform much better than MBs smallest diesel engine offering, a car in automatic form anyway now probably unsafe for regular use on high speed roadways:

    https://youtu.be/TzXPCl6jio8
    stickguy said:

    you might like this video. Skip the part about the repairs and get to the test drive. Their descriptions of the driving dynamics and features on the car is hysterical.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwfxI2KpHUQ

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021

    I like the A wagons better than the coupes and sedans. They are nicely proportioned. I’d like a Eurosport wagon with the aluminum wheels used on the Citation X-11.

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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,285
    I liked them too. I remember when I bought my house 1997, I needed a daily driver car since I only had the Cutlass at the time. In the neighborhood where my apartment was lived one of these Ciera wagons, pale yellow with woodgrain, that was unusual to see around here even then. I did the note under the wiper trick asking if the owner wanted to sell but never got a response.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I wasn't a huge fan of the FWD A-body at the time. Part of the reasoning is a bit juvenile, admittedly...I liked the RWD A/G body, and my first car was a 1980 Malibu coupe. So it was the FWD A-body, that killed it! But, from a realistic viewpoint, time does not stand still, and you can't keep making the same car forever, no matter how much you try to update it, if you want to stay competitive.

    These days though, if there's one midsized car from that era that I still see every once in awhile, it's an A-body. Usually a Century or Cutlass Ciera. And I don't think it's reliable, necessarily, but they're fairly cheap and easy to fix. And for the longest time, parts were always easy to get. Even now, parts might still be somewhat easy. In comparison, about the only time I'll see an '83-86 LTD/Marquis is at a classic car show (usually the Ford Nationals at Carlisle). I can't remember the last time I've seen a Taurus of the '86-95 era, unless again, every once in awhile, at the Ford Nationals. Chrysler's most direct competition to the A-body was all over the map in that era, and most of it K-car based. I guess you could throw a Diplomat or Gran Fury into that comparison, as they were marketed at midsized cars by that time, although physically much bigger and heavier. The stretched K-cars, such as the Dodge 600, Chrysler E-class, and Plymouth Caravelle were probably the most direct competitors, and maybe to a smaller degree the Lancer/LeBaron GTS, and in later years the Spirit and Acclaim, although those two were introduced about the time the Celebrity and 6000 checked out.

    If I wanted to pick up a cheap midsized used car, and found an old A-body from that era that seemed like it had been well taken care of, I wouldn't be ashamed of it. I'm not a huge fan of the 2-doors for the most part, because they really looked more like sedans than coupes. But, I thought that when they gave the Ciera and Century that "Thunderbird treatment" to the roofline, it made them kind of interesting.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    I liked the softening of the coupe roofline on the Ciera and Century, too.

    Remember the two-door FWD Electras of the time? Terrible! I knew a guy where I worked that had a blacked-out two-door Electra, I'll assume it was a T-Type, and it looked terrible!

    I like the LeSabre coupes of the late eighties/early nineties. I could still like one. Very American looking, in and out. I like the four headlights but the later ones have better transmissions I'm told. One or so years, they offered a light metallic turquoise that is striking by even the boring colors of those days, yet alone today.

    I like the LeSabre styling better than the Eighty-Eight, with its yellow taillight lens portion, which always screamed "Import!" to me.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yeah, I wasn't a fan of those upright 2-door Electras and Ninety-Eights either, although for some reason, the Coupe DeVille seemed to pull it off a bit better. But then again, maybe not. I just googled a pic to jog my memory, and I'll confess that when I saw this, I flinched a bit...


    Here's an Electra for comparison...



    I don't exactly hate either one, but in each case, I'd probably go for a 4-door version. I usually look at there being a tradeoff...you get more practicality in a 4-door, but more style in a 2-door. Not always, but in general. But, when it gets to the point that the 2-door doesn't look any better than the 4-door, it's like what's the point?

    And apparently buyers thought so too, as sales of the Electra and Ninety-Eight coupes dropped off pretty quickly. For '85, there were three versions of the 2-door...base, Park Avenue, and T-Type. For '86 it was dropped to just base and Park Avenue, and then for '87, simply Park Avenue. For '88, it was only sedans.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Back in the early 90's, I worked with someone whose husband had an '86 Olds 88 coupe. It was black, and actually looked pretty sharp. While I think the LeSabre coupe managed to pull off the sporty look better, and in the right colors (and as a T-type) even looked muscular, I'll admit that 88 looked good in black.

    Unfortunately, the only time I ever saw the car, it was sitting in their driveway, dead, with a flat tire. This would've been in 1993. I can't remember what issues it had, but they got rid of it soon after. At the time, her car was a white Cutlass Supreme coupe. I forget the year, but I'm pretty sure it had a quad 4, and I do remember it being that "grille-less" style with the tiny square inset headlights that, coupled with turn signals that were about the same size, gave it a 6-headlight look. She ended up having problems with that too, and traded for an early Nissan Altima.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    That Electra might be considered one of the last "2 door sedans" rather than a real coupe. Nice wheels anyway.

    Thinking of A bodies, my 5th grade teacher had a Pontiac 6000 coupe (2 door sedan?), has to be a unicorn today. I recall her husband, also a teacher, had an early 70s Vista Cruiser that was already something of an unusual car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    I do like that there is still bright trim on those coupes, but that roofline, ugh.

    I believe the Ninety-Eight coupe came standard with a vinyl top in those years.

    Funny, in the four-door cars, I liked the Ninety-Eight best of the three (Sedan deVille and Electra the others). Often, I like the Olds version of a platform the least for styling, but I liked the cathedral taillights and large, round wheel openings front and back. My Stude dealer friend had a champagne-colored '86 Ninety-Eight Regency Sedan he bought when it was several years old, and I thought it really packaged serious American-style luxury in a practical-sized exterior.
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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107

    I wish cars now had the visibility of that Electra!

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,285
    I see our friend Adam from the Youtube "Rare Classic Cars" channel posted a new review of his '70 Caprice 4-door HT with the 454 V8. It is a lengthy one, and he changed the video format slightly so that you are no longer looking out the windshield as he drives and talks, but instead looking at him behind the wheel. I don't like that perspective as much.

    I have to admit, the car left me cold. I am indifferent at best to the '70 Chevy, partly based upon us owning a similar '69 Impala that nobody in the family liked very much. The interior felt cheap compared to earlier Chevys, and that large expanse of painted metal on the dash seemed out of step with the times. One thing he did note that I didn't know was how pricey the Caprice was compared to both its GM stablemates and the competition from Ford and Chrysler. According to him you could buy a Bonneville or LTD Brougham for less in 1970.

    I found it odd that he said he was unaware of Chevy's signature triple-taillight design feature over the years. Kids these days... ;)

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    I personally don't believe a Bonneville could be bought for less than a Caprice in 1970, although the Caprice's seating was largely on par with a Bonneville Brougham. I'm not a big fan of the '70 Chevy either, styling-wise.

    My auditor's nature is making me cringe when he spells it as (lower case, with an 'e') "rallye wheels" instead of "Rally Wheels". :)

    To be fair, that's the kind of slight error I'd probably make if I were writing about a Mopar or Ford product of that time. I used to absorb the Chevy's brochure information like a sponge when I was a kid. I hated sports, so that's what took up all my head space.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I wonder how cost-effective it would be to make a modern car that had the visibility of that Electra? While it was probably fairly safe for the time, cars have definitely come a long way. Those higher beltlines, thicker pillars, etc, all contribute to a stronger, more protective passenger cabin, but then you have the downside of less glass area.

    I guess they could have used thicker gauge metal in the roof pillars, maybe beefed up the structure of the doors under the skins, and such? But, I'm guessing there's still some kind of cost rationale as to why they didn't go that route. Or maybe, from an engineering standpoint, it still wasn't feasible? To the point where, say, a larger roof pillar might still be stronger than a smaller roof pillar that uses thicker gauge metal, and such?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited November 2021

    I personally don't believe a Bonneville could be bought for less than a Caprice in 1970, although the Caprice's seating was largely on par with a Bonneville Brougham. I'm not a big fan of the '70 Chevy either, styling-wise.

    My auditor's nature is making me cringe when he spells it as (lower case, with an 'e') "rallye wheels" instead of "Rally Wheels". :)

    To be fair, that's the kind of slight error I'd probably make if I were writing about a Mopar or Ford product of that time. I used to absorb the Chevy's brochure information like a sponge when I was a kid. I hated sports, so that's what took up all my head space.

    My old car book has the base price of a Bonneville 4-door hardtop at $3900, and a Caprice 4-door hardtop at $3527. So you could option up a Caprice to where it's more expensive than a more basic Bonneville, but as long as they were both comparably equipped, I'm sure the Bonneville would still be more expensive.

    You could also get a pillared Bonneville 4-door for $3770, whereas the Caprice was only 2- or 4-door hardtop that year. So if you don't do an apples-to-apples comparison, the prices get a bit closer. Then there's engines. What was the standard engine in the '70 Caprice? Was it a 350, or a 400? I'm pretty sure for '71 it was a 400, but I don't know about '70. The Bonneville had a 455 standard. So depending on how much the 454 option on the Caprice was, that could've closed the gap. And then, I think a Pontiac 400 was actually a credit option for the Bonneville...just to confuse matters even more.

    I wonder too, if, Pontiac sales got soft that year, and maybe they were running bigger discounts than Chevy, so the out-the-door prices might have occasionally been lower?

    **Edit, according to my old car book, an LTD Brougham was $3579. Over at Plymouth, the most expensive 4-door hardtop was the Sport Fury trim level, at $3363. A Dodge Polara Custom 4-door hardtop was $3528, while a Monaco 4-door hardtop was $3743
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,548
    edited November 2021
    andre1969 said:

    I wonder how cost-effective it would be to make a modern car that had the visibility of that Electra? While it was probably fairly safe for the time, cars have definitely come a long way. Those higher beltlines, thicker pillars, etc, all contribute to a stronger, more protective passenger cabin, but then you have the downside of less glass area.

    I guess they could have used thicker gauge metal in the roof pillars, maybe beefed up the structure of the doors under the skins, and such? But, I'm guessing there's still some kind of cost rationale as to why they didn't go that route. Or maybe, from an engineering standpoint, it still wasn't feasible? To the point where, say, a larger roof pillar might still be stronger than a smaller roof pillar that uses thicker gauge metal, and such?

    I think it would be possible today to have the visibility of the Electra and Olds 98 of the 1985-1990 generation. There are stronger grades of steel today, which Honda mentions as making possible thinner front pillars on the new Civic, for instance. I think the closed in feeling of some cars and SUVs today is more about style than about safety.

    Having owned a 1988 Oldsmobile 98 for ten years, I can say that the luxury was wonderful in that car. Great visibility, and great room front and rear. That car had one weird feature that you can see after 16 minutes in the video below of two cigarette lighters and ashtrays in the back seat in those fancy doors. And it had interesting decorative exterior lights on the B-pillars. A good car with that 3.8 engine, which had good acceleration for the time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Eg4Zb1kyM&t=66s

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,957
    They were nice cars. The one in the video is screaming for whitewalls. Just looks off without them.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    My favorite of those cars. Somehow a bit 'lighter' looking than the Electra and Caddy, and I'll credit the big round wheel openings for that. Nice cathedral-style taillights too.

    Agree, the video car is just begging for whitewalls.

    In my memory, there really was nothing else offered by anyone that was similar to these cars. Before the domestics just started to ape the import luxury cars. Nice packaging IMHO, and I guess that was still a fairly-new concept in domestic luxury at the time.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,285
    Nothing prevents designing cars with robust roofs for rollover protection while still retaining thin pillars and good visibility.


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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,659
    Late '80s was peak visibility. I love cars from that era. (for visibility).

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    I remember that Volvo ad. They got some cr*p about it being faked to some degree.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    As for peak visibility, I was always impressed with the rearward visibility of the '73 Colonnade cars, with the triangular quarter windows. Of course, the public wanted, and got, fastback rooves with opera windows one year in, LOL.

    I'm always amazed that backing down our driveway, which is probably a 30% downward grade, maybe?, combined with a turning lane beginning at our street just before our driveway, that a car coming down our street can be hidden completely, and I mean completely, behind the B-pillar in my '17 Cruze as I'm backing out. It's almost like some geometric experiment happening!

    More than once I've avoided an accident by hearing a horn beep. I always stop for a few seconds before backing out into the street, for that reason.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    I found it odd that he said he was unaware of Chevy's signature triple-taillight design feature over the years. Kids these days... ;)

    Really!
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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,350
    Up, that is where BLIS with the rear cross-path monitoring comes in handy.

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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    edited November 2021

    @uplanderguy said:
    I remember that Volvo ad. They got some cr*p about it being faked to some degree.

    That may have been for a different ad:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1991/08/22/volvo-ad-agency-penalized-for-commercial/a14c38c3-73ea-4c12-a85c-a3d07e5a8971/

    It looks like the “stack” ad was legit:
    https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/the-stack/amp

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited November 2021
    You are right about the Volvo ad. Sorry. My forty years as an auditor always has me saying "appears" or "I think" if I'm not sure about something. Dropped the ball on that one for sure. I remembered wrong. I usually pride myself on my memory and for not saying wrong stuff; also, identifying my opinion as an opinion only.

    My mother-in-law, a single lady, bought a used Volvo for her teenage son sometime in the mid-nineties, thinking it would be safe and bulletproof. It may have been safe but she felt the repair costs were ridiculous. I don't think they had it three months. He subsequently had a 1968 Dodge Coronet 440 4-door sedan, followed by a mid-'80's LeBaron sedan.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,285


    My mother-in-law, a single lady, bought a used Volvo for her teenage son sometime in the mid-nineties, thinking it would be safe and bulletproof. It may have been safe but she felt the repair costs were ridiculous. I don't think they had it three months. He subsequently had a 1968 Dodge Coronet 440 4-door sedan, followed by a mid-'80's LeBaron sedan.

    That sounds like the '73 we bought new. Worst car we ever owned for reliability problems. Combination of bad component & build quality, and a horrific dealer service dept.I remember when we first got it, we decided to take it on the annual family vacation trip. First day was Halifax to Bangor, ME. We noticed a front end vibration on the highway and Dad figured a wheel was out of balance. When we got to Bangor the LF tire was down to the cord on one edge of the tread because the front end alignment was so far off. We spent the day in Bangor at the Chevy dealer because I guess Bangor did not have a Volvo dealership back then, or maybe it was dualled with Chevy, I don't recall. Dad had to buy a new tire and get the car aligned there before we could leave. It was all downhill from there.

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