I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

explorerx4

Saw this on my walk around the neighborhood. Seemed small. I used to think the were bigger.

texases

Too bad it's the 380, not the 560. None of the add-ons so many have, like chrome wheel well trim or chrome wheels.

uplanderguy

Probably.

tjc78

@uplanderguy said:
Speaking of these just this morning--spotted this one at the local drugstore. To my eyes, the best-looking Town Cars. Begging for whitewalls though of course.

Yup arguably 95-97 are some of the best looking Town Cars made.

fintail

380SL is MY 81-85, early versions had a single row timing chain that could develop faults, but conversions are apparently easy. Notice it has a 560SL-style CHMSL, maybe a period accessory to make the car look newer.

stickguy

I love that Camaro. my favorite color and style. And wheels.

roadburner

The 2nd Gen Camaro's were gorgeous.

uplanderguy

I actually like the '74 revisions better than the smaller-bumper versions earlier. I like the Type LT blacked-out rocker with chrome trim at the top of it.

I do like the wraparound rear window best, starting in '75.

andre1969

For a moment last night, out driving, I thought I might have been caught in some kind of a time warp. I was in the Regal, and came up behind another Regal (or possibly a Century) of the same vintage. It was at night, and even though I own one of these things, I honestly don't pay enough attention to them to readily tell a Regal apart from a Century from the rear, unless I read the badge. Anyway, it was driving slow, holding up traffic.

As I was waiting for a big enough break in traffic to pass it, a white Olds Calais coupe, of '85-91 vintage, went past. I couldn't remember the last time I've seen a Calais. This one looked like it was in pretty good shape. I never did get a good enough look at the front to see if it had quad headlights or composites.

sda

I saw a clean 2004ish Mazda 6 hatchback V6, charcoal gray. It looked like a sedan at first but I then saw a rear wiper on the back glass. Mazda didn't sell many of those even new.

explorerx4

Stopped at CVS and saw this.
Not a good pic(got the important part though).

fintail

C215 CL65 is a rare bird, only several hundred units made for worldwide consumption. Also maintenance intensive.

tjc78

@fintail said:
C215 CL65 is a rare bird, only several hundred units made for worldwide consumption. Also maintenance intensive.

Pretty sure my neighbor down the shore has one. It’s that model and has AMG badging on it. I’ll try and snag a picture if he is down this weekend.

uplanderguy

fin, the Ponton across the street from the Studebaker Administration Building is no longer there. The mind wanders. I hope someone who could bring it back, got it.

andre1969

This popped up on facebook today...


A rough example, sadly, but in the past when I had mentioned those little Japanese hardtop coupes from the late 70's/early 80's, I had totally forgotten about these.

kyfdx

Amazing that (sort of) survived.

tjc78

That Subaru is probably rust molecules holding hands.

explorerx4

That Jeep in the background is just looking for something to crush.

fintail

Statistically more likely a CL55, which is still relatively rare, although it could be a CL65. I doubt many of the latter are used regularly, imagine a DCX era TTV12 with a complex and finicky active suspension, endless chances for fun.

tjc78 said:

@fintail said:

C215 CL65 is a rare bird, only several hundred units made for worldwide consumption. Also maintenance intensive.

Pretty sure my neighbor down the shore has one. It’s that model and has AMG badging on it. I’ll try and snag a picture if he is down this weekend.

fintail

In the condition it was in, more likely went to be a parts car. It looked too good to scrap, anyway. Like many old MB and most sedans, you can lay down 50K+ in restoration to end up with a car that might hit 20K when the stars align.

uplanderguy said:

fin, the Ponton across the street from the Studebaker Administration Building is no longer there. The mind wanders. I hope someone who could bring it back, got it.

fintail

IIRC these were MY 81-84, and quad lights mean GL, but I could be mistaken.

When I was a young teen, the older lady across the street replaced her 71-72 Chevelle coupe with one of these, which seemed odd, as I was a young teen in the early 90s. I suspect one of her kids wanted the Chevelle and talked her into a trade. She had the Subaru for years anyway, as it was in a mild climate.

andre1969 said:

This popped up on facebook today...

A rough example, sadly, but in the past when I had mentioned those little Japanese hardtop coupes from the late 70's/early 80's, I had totally forgotten about these.

tjc78

@fintail said:
Statistically more likely a CL55, which is still relatively rare, although it could be a CL65. I doubt many of the latter are used regularly, imagine a DCX era TTV12 with a complex and finicky active suspension, endless chances for fun.

Probably is. Sad thing is it isn’t being kept up nice. It’s black and swirled to hell and always dirty. He is a year round resident and it sits outside just a few yards from the harbor so it’s probably rusty too.

His Denali always looks good though lol.

texases

I wonder why Subarus, especially older ones, we’re such vibrators, even though they had the opposed 4 engine, just like the original Gold Wing motorcycle.

fintail

They can be had fairly cheap these days, for what they are and what they cost new. Only the best examples are worth much, and cars with any needs can be worth very little, as digging into the issues can be a Pandora's Box. Some MBs of that general era are not rust-averse, so you could be right there, too.

tjc78 said:

@fintail said:

Statistically more likely a CL55, which is still relatively rare, although it could be a CL65. I doubt many of the latter are used regularly, imagine a DCX era TTV12 with a complex and finicky active suspension, endless chances for fun.

Probably is. Sad thing is it isn’t being kept up nice. It’s black and swirled to hell and always dirty. He is a year round resident and it sits outside just a few yards from the harbor so it’s probably rusty too.

His Denali always looks good though lol.

kyfdx

texases said:

I wonder why Subarus, especially older ones, we’re such vibrators, even though they had the opposed 4 engine, just like the original Gold Wing motorcycle.

I don't think flat fours are all that great, when it comes to vibration. I'd rather have a straight 4 with a balance shaft.

andre1969

I thought a flat-four was supposed to be inherently balanced? But maybe it's one of those things where, if the engine gets the least bit out of tune, it throws things off worse than a V-block engine, or an inline?

I don't know the physics behind it, but maybe if there's a perceptible side-to-side motion, it feels worse than an up-down motion?

kyfdx

andre1969 said:

I thought a flat-four was supposed to be inherently balanced? But maybe it's one of those things where, if the engine gets the least bit out of tune, it throws things off worse than a V-block engine, or an inline?

I don't know the physics behind it, but maybe if there's a perceptible side-to-side motion, it feels worse than an up-down motion?

I think the flat-six is very smooth (better than a V-6), but I can't say the same for flat-four. I don't know why.

xwesx

texases said:

I wonder why Subarus, especially older ones, we’re such vibrators, even though they had the opposed 4 engine, just like the original Gold Wing motorcycle.

They aren't when they are running well. A naturally balanced engine requires that everything be working just right in order to self-dampen effectively, and it isn't uncommon at all for people to let them go as they age. Weak spark in one cylinder, for example, can induce an impressive vibration. The older ones also had a tendency to make that "sewing machine" noise as they aged, which gives its own set of impressions....

texases

My friend’s near new 83 Subaru sure didn’t run smoothly.

stickguy

back in the late 80s I had the hatchback version of that vintage subaru. Not a bad car. When I got it, the fancy exhaust system (what they used instead of a catalyst I think) was shot. So the nice guy at the local midas shop welded in some replacement pipes, and good to go.

fun fact. I have owned 2 Subarus. Neither one had AWD. Both FWD models.

fintail

The Subaru warble/lawnmower noise is a known thing in the PNW. I think a lot of older ones attracted people who weren't into strict maintenance - I recall the rears of some 80s era cars could get sooty too. People sure seem to love them though.

sda

My youngest sister had a 73 Subaru 1300 G T. Dark blue with a white stripe near the rocker panel. Two tone black and white seats. Plum wore out at less than 100k. Leaked and burned oil, but always started and didn't strand her.

kyfdx

Just about every car in the '70s was worn out at 100K, though..

fintail

A Subaru of that age would have a little value today. Like with many cars of the era, I have to imagine the interior materials disintegrated in a harsher climate.

explorerx4

Gold 67 Impala coupe on the left.

andre1969

In a facebook forum (copied from a closed group, unfortunately or I'd try to post the whole link) someone is selling a 1980 Citation. The car itself is unremarkable (except for the fact that it's still around, I guess!) but one thing that caught me off guard, is just how expensive these things could be, once you threw a few options on them. Here's its window sticker...Almost $8,000 for this thing sound ridiculous! For comparison, I think my Mom's 1980 Malibu was around $6500-7000, out the door.

Back then, many Americans still associated small cars with being cheap, and expected a lower price, so it really surprises me that the Citation sold as well as it did initially. I guess it shows just how bad that era was, with the fuel crisis and associated scare-mongering, that people would flock to these things, at that price.

Here's a pic of the actual car...

kyfdx

$8K and they didn't even get the V-6.

andre1969

For comparison, in 1980, an Impala 4-door, with a V8, started at $6,730. Now that was just a 267 V8 that year; not sure how much more a 305 would have cost. But, the automatic, power steering, and power brakes would have been standard. Throw on a/c, tinted windows, rear defrost, cruise control if you're feeling extravagant, and you're probably around $8,000 with freight.

One thing I just noticed, unless my eyes just aren't picking it up...but that Citation only has an AM radio? It's interesting that they splurged on some things, like the full gauges (or "gages" as GM used to like to spell it), the sport mirrors, 2-tone paint, upgraded suspension, cruise, etc. But just an AM radio.

It's also listed as having a "deluxe interior" at $102, but the pics I saw just looked like your typical base interior. Basic cloth/vinyl seats, and plastic slabs for the door panels.

texases

That would be about $28k today. Not cheap.

Michaell

texases said:

That would be about $28k today. Not cheap.

Depends on your definition of cheap.

My nephew is interested in the Honda Civic Sport sedan. Those are $24K MSRP.

texases

Michaell said:

texases said:

That would be about $28k today. Not cheap.

Depends on your definition of cheap.

My nephew is interested in the Honda Civic Sport sedan. Those are $24K MSRP.

That Civic's a bargain, compared to 28k for the Citation. Maybe I should have said the Citation was 'no bargain'.

ab348

andre1969 said:

One thing I just noticed, unless my eyes just aren't picking it up...but that Citation only has an AM radio? It's interesting that they splurged on some things, like the full gauges (or "gages" as GM used to like to spell it), the sport mirrors, 2-tone paint, upgraded suspension, cruise, etc. But just an AM radio.

It's also listed as having a "deluxe interior" at $102, but the pics I saw just looked like your typical base interior. Basic cloth/vinyl seats, and plastic slabs for the door panels.

I just looked at the 1980 Citation brochure. The equipment offerings both standard and optional seems rather weird. The brochure talks about a custom interior option but aside from some pics doesn't seem to come out and say what it includes. From pics it looks like it got you different upholstery (knit cloth or presumably better vinyl), a narrow horizontal accent sewn in at neck level, and some carpet on the door panel lowers. But there was also a custom cloth also at extra charge which was a plaid pattern. This car lists both on the window sticker although the interior package is referred to there as "deluxe". So who knows.

There was a lot of stuff that was apparently standard in 1980 on these, like lots of bright exterior moldings and the AM radio, although you had to search that info out in the brochure as it wasn't presented particularly well.

andre1969

Whenever I see those facebook memes about how easy us older generations supposedly had it, I think I'm going to hang on to that pic of the Citation window sticker, and use that as ammunition for how bad it really was. $28,000 in inflation-adjusted dollars, for what knocked the Aspen/Volare off the perch for the title of "Most Recalled Car in History" 🤣 I remember hearing that the Ford Focus, when it first came out, ended up taking that title from the X-car, but I don't know what the metric was. Number of recalls? Number of vehicles recalled? Or what?

It's probably not easy to compare recalls with modern cars, versus older ones, because they'll recall a car over the slightest thing these days. My 2000 Intrepid got recalled twice. One of those times was because there was a possibility that the bolts, or something that held the seatbacks in place wasn't strong enough, and that in a rear-end collision the seatback could suddenly recline. The other recall? They had forgotten to put the instructions on how to install an infant car seat in the back seat, into the owner's manual! For that, they simply mailed the insert, with the recall notice.

The latest meme I've seen going around, is that they think my generation (or more likely, it was my parents') could graduate high school with a nice paying job and be able to buy a house for cash. Where do they come up with this stuff?

sda

Michaell said:

texases said:

That would be about $28k today. Not cheap.

Depends on your definition of cheap.

My nephew is interested in the Honda Civic Sport sedan. Those are $24K MSRP.

Civics are going for $3-$4k over list plus dealer installed added junk.

andre1969

Inflation can be a scary thing. I put the $22,389 that I paid for my Intrepid, into an inflation calculator, and that comes out to around $37-38K today! I bought the car in November of 1999, so being late in the calendar year, I looked at the numbers for both 1999 and 2000.

I shudder at the idea of even paying $20K for another car, today, yet it blows my mind that back when I was only 29, I didn't have a problem throwing out the modern equivalent of $37-38K for a brand-new car at the time.

But, when I think about what kind of car you can get for $37-38K today, versus that 2000 Intrepid, I still think new cars are a bargain, from an historical perspective.

andre1969

sda said:

Michaell said:

texases said:

That would be about $28k today. Not cheap.

Depends on your definition of cheap.

My nephew is interested in the Honda Civic Sport sedan. Those are $24K MSRP.

Civics are going for $3-$4k over list plus dealer installed added junk.

Yeah, I was thinking that $24K almost seemed cheap for a Civic, with the way things have gotten out of hand.

I have a friend who recently bought a used Chevy Cruze. I think it's a 2015 and had about 40,000 miles on it. He paid $16K for it. And I know someone else who early last year bought a 2011 Kia Sportage, and paid around $11K for it! I think it had about 80,000 miles on it. Those prices blow my sticker-shocked mind...that much for a 7 year old compact, and a 10 year (at the time) old cute-ute (or whatever nickname they call those things nowadays)

ab348

These are apparently the seats that the Citation being discussed has.



That pic shows one thing that I hated about the X-cars: the way GM designed the hinges for the flip-forward seatback function. Instead of doing what they had always done, they cut two slots in the bottom cushion on each side for the internal hinges to slide into. I always thought that looked just awful.

I'm not sure why you would order the custom or deluxe interior and then pay extra for that particular upholstery.

EDIT: IF you can't see the pic above, here is a direct insert of it into the post:

uplanderguy

That's "Deluxe Exterior", not "Deluxe Interior".

I know someone who waited seven months for their ordered Citation to appear. The government classified those cars as intermediates. I've heard all the stories, but really, there was nothing else like them then, made by anyone. Lots of choices, and excellent use of space. The car mags raved.

I considered an '85 X-11 even after the discontinuation was announced, but went with the Celebrity for perceived resale value. Same car underneath.

uplanderguy

I wish I had the window sticker, but my parents' 1980 Monte Carlo stickered at the bottom, after destination, at $7,070.00. No air, the V6, and mostly appearance options--whitewalls, all-vinyl interior, Value Appearance Package (Rally Wheels, wide sill moldings the whole length of the car; painted pinstripe; chrome belt moldings; dual body-colored Sport Mirrors with driver's side remote-controlled), tinted glass, AM/FM radio with rear seat speaker, and body side moldings. All Montes that year came with an electric clock and the sport suspension and P205/70 tires. And the automatic transmission, power steering and power brakes were standard.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

That's "Deluxe Exterior", not "Deluxe Interior".

Oh.

Never mind.

In my defense, I was going by what Andre called it, so it's all his fault!!!