I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348

uplanderguy said:

The optional opening quarter windows on Citations, and I assume Phonix sedans, I seem to remember was some sort of set up where there was a switch above the driver's door glass that opened them. It seemed like some sort of manual operation, not the power window switch like the Malibus et al had for power flip-out quarter windows.

Possibly so, as the brochure calls them "Remote swing-out side windows" whereas for door glass they use the more common "power windows". None of the brochure pics show how the remote option is controlled, and I couldn't find anything about it via a Google search either. Here is a pic showing some sort of actuator on a 2-door hatch rear side window:




In typical GM fashion, I discovered that for 1985 they redesigned the dash to get rid of the vertical radio, just in time for it to be discontinued. I thought this was part of the 1984 Citation II updates, but not so, it was apparently just for the final year:

uplanderguy

I much-preferred the '85 dash, although I never saw a single one, even new, that didn't have a lump in the pad right above the central vents in the panel.

That's even the same cloth seat material as used in the Celebrity standard interior.

In hindsight, kind of wish I'd have bought a Citation that year, just to be different which I sort-of like, LOL. They really were the identical car in engineering, although you could get a stick with the V6 in the Citation.

andre1969

It seems really odd to me that Chevy would go through the effort to redo the dash for the Citation, for its final year. And a really slow final year, at that. I wonder if the original plan had been to keep the Citation around a bit longer, and they figured an updated dash would breathe some new life into it, but then they decided to just dump it, and focus on the upcoming Corsica and Beretta as a replacement?

I could almost see something like that happening, with GM getting too big for its own good, and running into the old problem of "one hand doesn't know what the other is doing" sort of thing. For instance, perhaps they had one team trying to update the Citation, figuring they'd get a few more years out of it, but then another team working on the Corsica and Beretta, but nobody was really communicating anything?

There was definitely a lot of turmoil in that timeframe, and second-guessing. For instance, the N-body coupes were originally supposed to replace the Cutlass Supreme, Regal, and Grand Prix coupes, but once larger cars started selling well again (well, not the Grand Prix, so much) they decided to keep the RWD cars around a bit longer, and market the N-body as a sort of BMW/Euro import fighter. And that whole wave of downsizing in the '85-86 timeframe that seemed to come at precisely the wrong time (GM's C-bodies for '85, the B and E/K for '86)

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I much-preferred the '85 dash, although I never saw a single one, even new, that didn't have a lump in the pad right above the central vents in the panel.

These days the only pics of the '85 dash you can find are either from a junkyard car or well-used models of course, but you seem spot-on - I found just one pic that didn't seem to have that affliction. Bizarre.

uplanderguy

Another thing like that that always made me scratch my head--the instrument cluster used in '69-74 Novas, and I'll assume the B-O-P models as well, since it was the same panel.

The horizontal lines around and below the speedometer were almost always wavy...just the way they came out of the molds, I guess. When you got the Custom trim inside, those lines were chromed, and they were still wavy! Of course, in the brochure photos, some of which were drawings, they were always perfectly straight.

In '75, other than the dirt-cheapest Novas, the other Novas had a trim cover over that area which took care of the problem.

andre1969

On the subject of dash padding warping, that jogged a memory. I seem to recall the top of the dashboard on Grandmom's '85 LeSabre starting to distort a bit. An '84 LeSabre that someone's trying to sell popped up on facebook, and sure enough, its dash had a bit of warpage on the top, and the memories just came flooding back!
In this case I don't think it's the pad so much, as the ducts for the windshield defroster. Although, the dash might be warping, and making those plastic ducts pop up like that.

That car was an odd mix-and-match when it came to material quality. On one hand, I hated that woodgrain. It's like it wasn't even trying to look realistic! Although looking back on it with a twinge of nostalgia, I don't mind it so much. I always DID like the dash padding though. Despite that slight warpage, it still seemed like a nice, high quality piece. Almost leathery. And it wasn't as prone to cracking like the Chevy stuff did.

uplanderguy

I think I could live with that warpage. But I agree with the wood grain. Similar to ‘81 and ‘82 Malibu and Monte Carlo and ‘80 to ‘84 big Chevys. Bad fake, and too much of it. Sheesh, the top 40% or so of the door panel is that bad woodgrain too.

The last South Bend Studebaker, with 24 miles, has warpage in the pad above the glovebox. It really didn’t have great storage until about 1983, including the basement of a city building or two.

ab348

Buick changed the plastiwood design several times. For '78 it looked like this:



Then for '79 it looked like this, which is identical to what my departed '79 Park Avenue had. I didn't mind it.

fintail

Speaking of slight dash pad distortions, how rare is this option?

https://youtu.be/J3hm4K1K6gY

roadburner

I was talking with an attorney friend while we were waiting for a hearing- comparing notes on restoring cars. He was restoring a '60s Dart a few years ago and told of how he snapped the wheel studs of on the left front wheel using a heavy-duty impact wrench- he had forgotten the driver's side lug nuts used a left-hand thread.

tjc78

@fintail said:
Speaking of slight dash pad distortions, how rare is this option?

https://youtu.be/J3hm4K1K6gY

I had no idea Olds had that, did any other GM divisions?

My stepdad’s 83 Chrysler E-class did, as did many Chrysler products of the era.

uplanderguy

Unlike Chrysler, GM's full-sizers--and on down a few sizes--used individual panels, so not sure a goof like that would cross divisions.

EDIT: Oops, you meant the audio warnings. I've never encountered that in a GM product before. Thanks for sharing; interesting. Although when I rented Mopars with that, I found it all annoying.

uplanderguy

Those Buick panels in the full-size cars, beginning in '77, were beautiful I think. I'm hard-pressed to think of a panel at the time, including in any more-expensive cars and certainly no imports I can think of, that looked as elegant. Of course, all what you're used to.

I was always a sucker for red interior; blue, not so much.

I always bemoaned the loss of chromed (or plastichromed) shift levers. The completely flat-black-plastic levers, also for turn signals, were disappointing to me. Of course, they're still largely like that now.

tjc78

Wow, I want this

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdsjnvnq/?k=1

andre1969

The main thing I didn't like about the woodgrain in Grandmom's '85 LeSabre is that it had a slight, orangish glow to it. It doesn't show up in the pic of that '84 I posted above, but maybe it's the contrast, too? Grandmom's LeSabre had a gray velour interior, so that brown of the wood stood out a bit more harshly, whereas with the burgundy of that pic I posted, it seems to complement it better I think.

One problem I have with woodgrain, is that sometimes my mind will see things. Like on my grandparents' '82 Malibu Classic wagon, in the woodgrain on the passenger side between the HVAC ducts, in those swirls I swear I saw these faces, like some distorted pig-monster out of the "Twilight Zone" or something.

Well, looking at AB348's '79 Electra, I swear I see a wolf's face in that woodgrain staring back at me! I'm not going to point out where exactly, because I'm just curious if anyone else sees it too? It's subtle, but now that I know it's there, my eye goes right to it!

ab348

andre1969 said:

Well, looking at AB348's '79 Electra, I swear I see a wolf's face in that woodgrain staring back at me! I'm not going to point out where exactly, because I'm just curious if anyone else sees it too? It's subtle, but now that I know it's there, my eye goes right to it!

The pic of the blue Electra I posted isn't mine, but a better pic I found online. I do see what you're talking about. This is the only dash pic I have for mine and it is way too small, but if you expand it some that face isn't there.

texases

New word for the day: The human tendency to see patterns that do not actually exist is called apophenia.

sda

ab348 said:

andre1969 said:

Well, looking at AB348's '79 Electra, I swear I see a wolf's face in that woodgrain staring back at me! I'm not going to point out where exactly, because I'm just curious if anyone else sees it too? It's subtle, but now that I know it's there, my eye goes right to it!

The pic of the blue Electra I posted isn't mine, but a better pic I found online. I do see what you're talking about. This is the only dash pic I have for mine and it is way too small, but if you expand it some that face isn't there.

That was a very plush interior. It reminds me of the Cadillac Talisman interior. I miss the thick carpeting they used in the upper level trims.

uplanderguy

I think I see it, directly above the glovebox knob?

I know I'm weird, but I think I might not be the only one, LOL!

uplanderguy

It reminds me of the Cadillac Talisman interior

Our little hometown's dealer actually sold a '74 dark blue Talisman with white vinyl top to a bailbondsman in town (who's retired now but still lives there and is a great community supporter. He turned down the chance to bail out Noriega!).

I've never seen one in person, but I guess in '74 they offered the Talisman interior in optional leather. I just can't hardly imagine.

uplanderguy

When I was in South Bend last week, a guy with a very, very nice, original Bermuda Brown '64 Cruiser built in Hamilton showed me on his firewall, where you could faintly see "BROWN" handwritten on it. I thought that was interesting--apparently grease pencil or the like probably written on bare metal as the body came down a line prior to paint.

I broke my '66 Cruiser out of storage yesterday and looked. Amazingly, mine says "TURQ" there. I'd never noticed that in five years of ownership. Hard to see in this pic but if you squint you might be able to. I think that substantiates original paint, at least under the hood. I thought it was mildly cool to see this.

kyfdx

That's cool to find something on your own car, after this much time.

explorerx4

Good story with details about Canadian car history.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/just-rare-enough-to-seem-fictional-the-pontiac-beaumont-sd-396-was-more-like-a-chevelle-than-a-gto/ar-AAXcChP?li=BBnbfcL

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I think I see it, directly above the glovebox knob?

I know I'm weird, but I think I might not be the only one, LOL!

Yep, that's it. One of the "eyes" is at roughly the 11 o'clock position, from the "B" in "Buick". Here's a pic where I cropped it and rotated it a bit...
The further I zoom in though, the illusion seems lost. With this cropped pic, for example, I have to move back from the computer for it to look more like a wolf. Although, that could also be my eyesight...I am a bit far-sighted

andre1969

I had to take my uncle to the hospital in Baltimore this morning for some procedure. I spotted this poor, tortured beast parked at the curb in the projects...Upon zooming in, I noticed it's an F350! I'm guessing that poor truck must have been really worked to death and overloaded, in order to get bent like that! I'm used to seeing lesser trucks with this bad posture, but not a one-ton!

I guess it's possible too, that the frame had rusted out and weakened? In all fairness, this truck is probably at least 25 years old. IIRC, didn't Ford redo the F150 for '97, and the F250 and up for '98?

uplanderguy

RE.: Those Electra dash pics--I think that clock on the right looked so good, it actually probably steered people away from buying the digital clock. It would have me.

sda

I liked the style of the dash and aluminum faced instruments on those Buicks. It was a clean and classy look. Also reminded me of an instrument display you would find on a ship. Can you say 'Land yacht?' Sorry I couldn't resist.

uplanderguy

I was always reminded of barometers and such you'd see on the wall, mounted on a wooden plaque, in offices.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

RE.: Those Electra dash pics--I think that clock on the right looked so good, it actually probably steered people away from buying the digital clock. It would have me.

It was a nice design that was a throwback to late-40s/early 50s Buicks. The good thing was that by then the clock had become an electronic quartz clock and was no longer the crummy electro-mechanical type that were used previously and often failed prematurely.

GM dabbled with silver gauge faces in '78 and '79 but while they looked great, they were a bit hard to read at a quick glance.

roadburner

Our town is having its spring festival this weekend and I ran into an old friend who I hung out with a lot during my misspent street racing youth. He currently has a 1972 454 SS Chevelle as well as a 1961 "Pro Street" Chevy(instead of modifying a street car to look like a drag racer he bought a race car and made it street legal). Today he told me that he located the 1974 Z28 he bought in a barn and bought it. What are the odds?

roadburner

Another friend was in the festival’s parade today. He’s running for re-election as a county magistrate. He had several unique vehicles in the parade but this one was my favorite:

fintail

Out early this morning, saw a VW show getting together - lots of 60s material, including a higher number window microbus. Unfortunately, it was starting to rain a little. Came home and was in the garage, heard a car driving by and looked up - bustleback Seville, in clean condition. Didn't spot enough detail to determine engine/year, but I heard no diesel sound (I suspect very few diesel bustlebacks are on the road today).

stickguy

was outside this afternoon and a nice looking Firebird TA drove past. about a 1975 or so. black with Gold decals (very Bandit!) very cool.

and walking earlier, someone in the next neighborhood over has an RX8 that I never knew about.

and driving over to the local brewery, someone parked in a lot with a very clean looking 2 tone green 5 Bel Aire. 4 door though, rare to see one of those restored.

uplanderguy

RE.: WWII-era Jeep--as simple as those are, I still enjoy looking at one upclose. As a kid I remember my Dad saying, "Those tipped over easily" and it's not hard to see why.

In a roundabout way, I'm reminded of Elaine on 'Seinfeld' telling Jerry, "The female body is a work of art. The male body is all lumpy and hairy. It's utilitarian--like a Jeep".

LOL

uplanderguy

Warning: The Andy Griffith Show clip here.

Big fan of the show, even the color episodes which a lot of people seem to run from. I actually prefer a lot of the color episodes, which lack the slapstick antics of Ernest T. Bass, the Darlings, Otis, etc.

This is the last two minutes or so of one of my favorite color episodes, "Goober Goes To An Auto Show".

Brief setup: Andy and family decide to go to the Auto Show in Raleigh to look for a new compact car for Aunt Bee. Goober asks to come along and does. He had recently bought Wally's Filling Station and was proud of that, and decided while in Raleigh to get in touch with an old friend from mechanic's school whom he remembered as a bit of a goof-off. He wanted to brag a bit about being an owner/operator. Here, the friend was an engineer with "Amalgamated Motors", discussing his big bonus for a new engineering feature, and belittling Goober at all times for being only a gas station owner, doing bike repairs on the side (thanks for letting that slip at dinner, Opie! LOL) and for staying in his small hometown. When Goober asked him if he knew what happened to the one (attractive) female who was in their mechanic's class, the guy said "I married her".

The ending is good I think and shows Goober in a different light than normal.

Bonus: Close-ups of Aunt Bee's '55 Ford Sunliner and a '60-61 Comet in the bay at the station.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgVRhg_n3ZA

andre1969

"Amalgamated" certainly was a diversified company. As I recall, that was the name of the airline Doris Day was a stewardess for in the 1956 movie "Julie". Vague reference I know, but I remember the movie because it was very Mopar-heavy.

Just looked it up on the IMCDB...
Odd; I remember it being in color. But, I haven't seen it probably since the early 90's. Just looked it up on Wikipedia, and they mention it under "black and white films", so it looks like I saw a colorized version.

uplanderguy

Yeah, and note the name of the gas station--"Acme".

There's some chat on Griffith forums that a Coors truck drives by in the scene, and of course Coors was not available in North Carolina at the time.

texases

uplanderguy said:

RE.: WWII-era Jeep--as simple as those are, I still enjoy looking at one upclose. As a kid I remember my Dad saying, "Those tipped over easily" and it's not hard to see why.

In a roundabout way, I'm reminded of Elaine on 'Seinfeld' telling Jerry, "The female body is a work of art. The male body is all lumpy and hairy. It's utilitarian--like a Jeep".

LOL

When I see one of those Jeeps in a WWII or Korean war movie, I wonder how many tipped over during filming.

texases

Saw a 250/280SL on the drive in, looked in good shape. Also a '55-ish T-Bird, looked nice on the drive-on tow truck. Probably being shipped to/from Minters Thunderbirds, big restoration shop 2 miles away.

benjaminh

The 1965 Bonneville was really a lot of car for the money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHOjf7Erzp4

uplanderguy

I'd seen that car online when Adam bought it. My brother-in-law's parents had a '65 Grand Prix in the same exterior color and compared to our Chevelle 300 Deluxe, the interior just blew me away. I think the interiors were better than Buicks and Oldsmobiles of the same year--at least the instrument panels.

Always a big choice of models in the full-size Pontiac line then--made even bigger in '66 and '67.

andre1969

Other than the Star Chief/Executive shuffle, Pontiac's big car lineup seemed to stay pretty consistent to me, and easy to follow. Same with Buick, who pretty much left the 60's with the same big cars as when they started, with the exception of replacing Invicta with Wildcat. And well, they did start off with Electra and Electra 225, as separate series for a couple years, although my mind tends to just lump them together as "Electra".

Oldsmobile's lineup was always hard for me to follow though, because it seemed like they kept switching their 88s around. As a child of the 70's, my mind tends to want to call them all simply "Delta 88", even though the Delta was just one of many.

Looks like they went with Dynamic 88/Super 88 for 1960-63
Then for '64 they had Jetstar 88/Dynamic 88/Super 88
For '65 there was Jetstar 88/Jetstar 1 (just a hardtop coupe)/Dynamic 88/Delta 88
For '66 it was Jetstar 88/Dynamic 88/Delta 88
In 1967 it went to Delmont 88 "330"/Delmont 88 "425"/Delta 88/Delta 88 Custom.
They went down to just Delmont 88/Delta 88 for 1968.
Finally, for '69 they settled on just Delta 88 with base and Custom trim levels.

uplanderguy

There was the Royale coupe for '69, new that year.

I believe there was Delta Custom in '68 as well.

sda

@andre1969 said:
Other than the Star Chief/Executive shuffle, Pontiac's big car lineup seemed to stay pretty consistent to me, and easy to follow. Same with Buick, who pretty much left the 60's with the same big cars as when they started, with the exception of replacing Invicta with Wildcat. And well, they did start off with Electra and Electra 225, as separate series for a couple years, although my mind tends to just lump them together as "Electra".

Oldsmobile's lineup was always hard for me to follow though, because it seemed like they kept switching their 88s around. As a child of the 70's, my mind tends to want to call them all simply "Delta 88", even though the Delta was just one of many.

Looks like they went with Dynamic 88/Super 88 for 1960-63
Then for '64 they had Jetstar 88/Dynamic 88/Super 88
For '65 there was Jetstar 88/Jetstar 1 (just a hardtop coupe)/Dynamic 88/Delta 88
For '66 it was Jetstar 88/Dynamic 88/Delta 88
In 1967 it went to Delmont 88 "330"/Delmont 88 "425"/Delta 88/Delta 88 Custom.
They went down to just Delmont 88/Delta 88 for 1968.
Finally, for '69 they settled on just Delta 88 with base and Custom trim levels.

You're exactly right, Olds was hard to keep up with on the 88s.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

There was the Royale coupe for '69, new that year.

I believe there was Delta Custom in '68 as well.

Yep, I just went back and looked at my book again. For '67, my book actually breaks out "Delta 88" and "Delta 88 Custom" as two separate series, whereas for '68 it just has "Delta 88", with base and Custom as trim levels. Six of one, half-dozen of the other, I guess.

And then, they got to that point where they started piling on the suffixes. "Delta 88" just wasn't good enough for a base model, so they had to call them all "Delta 88 Royale". If you wanted the upscale one, it was"Delta 88 Royale Brougham". Eventually, they got to the point of "Delta 88 Royale Brougham LS"!

explorerx4

The Beast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxMxFE37Sxw

fintail

Arborist at my house maintaining the big maple tree there's no way in heck I am going to climb, arrived in this:



A number of these kind of things in the area, see them on the road now and then.

ab348

In those, if you’re in a front-end collision, you’re first on the scene.

fintail

You are the crumple zone.

I talked to the owner - 1997 model, as new as it can get here with the dumb 25 year rule, imported by him 2 months ago. Said it wasn't a difficult process, all-in he's about 6K into it, which seems like a lot, but I guess that's the new 4K. He only uses it around town. I've read kei vehicles and some JDM in general are being banned in some states, especially points east, because freedom.

ab348 said:

In those, if you’re in a front-end collision, you’re first on the scene.

Michaell

fintail said:

You are the crumple zone.

I talked to the owner - 1997 model, as new as it can get here with the dumb 25 year rule, imported by him 2 months ago. Said it wasn't a difficult process, all-in he's about 6K into it, which seems like a lot, but I guess that's the new 4K. He only uses it around town. I've read kei vehicles and some JDM in general are being banned in some states, especially points east, because freedom.

ab348 said:

In those, if you’re in a front-end collision, you’re first on the scene.

I read that was true in Florida.

Which seems the opposite of everything else that's going on, there.