I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

kyfdx

fintail said:

Call me crazy, but I like rear window louvers - well, I like to look at them, but I bet they'd bug me when driving.

Me too, but that aftermarket set is kind of janky.

I had a period where I wanted them on two different vehicles. '77 Cobra II, which already had rear quarter window louvers, and then my '82 Accord hatchback (matte black was big by then).

But, in both cases, it was nearly $500, and there was no way I could afford that.

Michaell

kyfdx said:

fintail said:

Call me crazy, but I like rear window louvers - well, I like to look at them, but I bet they'd bug me when driving.

Me too, but that aftermarket set is kind of janky.

I had a period where I wanted them on two different vehicles. '77 Cobra II, which already had rear quarter window louvers, and then my '82 Accord hatchback (matte black was big by then).

But, in both cases, it was nearly $500, and there was no way I could afford that.

The '85 Accord hatch I bought after graduating college had the black louvers installed on it. Looked cool, but certainly hindered rear visibility.

fintail

I think I posted this before, but it's good for a chuckle. Louvers are still alive, I spotted this in Savannah earlier this year:

kyfdx

fintail said:

I think I posted this before, but it's good for a chuckle. Louvers are still alive, I spotted this in Savannah earlier this year:

With the heat and humidity, EVERYTHING looks like that in Savannah, after a few years..

uplanderguy

Generally, I like 'less is more', so of course most aftermarket stuff turns me off.

tjc78

@fintail said:
Call me crazy, but I like rear window louvers - well, I like to look at them, but I bet they'd bug me when driving.

My Mom’s 85 Charger and Dad’s 86 Shelby Charger both had them. Back then it was more common to have than not.

texases

I had them on my '79 Scirocco, alloy, helpful in the Dallas heat. I think it came that way (used), I didn't add them to the '83 GTI. Of course, they would have been more of a nuisance in Anchorage.

fintail

I recall louvers were quite popular on various generations of Celica back then too.

Spotted in a car group - Tempo GLS V6 5-speed - I wonder how many were made and how many still exist. Love the color:





I recall back in the day, the indy rental car place in the small town where I lived had some V6 Tempos, probably unsold stock, but I suspect they weren't quite that spec. I think the Vulcan under the hood wasn't tuned in any special way, but I bet it still had torque steer.

And on the color note, a Seattle-area friend spotted this in a parking lot, these colors need to come back:




Notice the badge, this is a special car.

texases

Stopped behind a Dodge Neon just now. A well-used survivor, faded paint, no signs of any repairs.

roadburner

fintail said:

Call me crazy, but I like rear window louvers - well, I like to look at them, but I bet they'd bug me when driving.

I put louvers on my Arrow GT; it helped the air conditioning out a good bit and didn't restrict rear visibility all that much.

sda

I may have shared this before, the summer of 79 during my freshman year at UT Knoxville I sold educational books for The Southwestern Co, Franklin, TN. My sales manager’s wife had a metallic blue and white with white interior Arrow. I think it was a 1.6. I don’t remember the details other than it was a manual and she preferred it over my manager’s anemic 231 V6 76 Buick Regal coupe. I spent the summer in and around Granite City and East St Louis. What I didn’t know then I know now!

tjc78

fintail said:

I recall louvers were quite popular on various generations of Celica back then too.

Spotted in a car group - Tempo GLS V6 5-speed - I wonder how many were made and how many still exist. Love the color:





I recall back in the day, the indy rental car place in the small town where I lived had some V6 Tempos, probably unsold stock, but I suspect they weren't quite that spec. I think the Vulcan under the hood wasn't tuned in any special way, but I bet it still had torque steer.

And on the color note, a Seattle-area friend spotted this in a parking lot, these colors need to come back:




Notice the badge, this is a special car.

3. This one, one that was wrapped around a tree and the last one is in a field awaiting restoration.

Ford had great colors in the 90s. I’ve talked about it before but I loved the Pacific Green on Mom’s 96 Thunderbird.

sda

The Tempo GLS with a V6 was not common, with a 5sp, a unicorn even when new. I think I remember looking at these before I bought my 93 Mercury Tracer LTS. The Mercury, Mazda based, was a great car which I traded later for a new 95 Jetta GLX VR-6.

ab348

tjc78 said:

Ford had great colors in the 90s. I’ve talked about it before but I loved the Pacific Green on Mom’s 96 Thunderbird.

Even up until recently Ford did some actual different colors. I remember seeing the last-gen Fusion in a very nice light to medium metallic green, and the same model in a very handsome copper-brown metallic, which looked very good with its tan leather interior. The last was on a dealer used car lot as a 1 or 2 year-old lease return just a couple of years ago. It was the only Fusion I've ever seen in that color.

fintail

My friend who just bought the CT6 has a Jade Green (with matching interior) hard loaded MKZ, 2017 I think. The color was part of why he wanted it. Some odd colors still exist, but they are uncommon.

MB had a nice blue back around 2010, "quartz blue". I think this was only made for 2-3 model years, nobody bought it:



There are a ton of special Designo colors today, depending on the model they could be a 5-10K upcharge, so they will be seldom-seen (like this):



On the road today spotted a no-grille 92 Crown Vic, a bit rough but still moving. I've seen a couple of these around, along with the single light box Crown Vic.

roadburner

sda said:

I may have shared this before, the summer of 79 during my freshman year at UT Knoxville I sold educational books for The Southwestern Co, Franklin, TN. My sales manager’s wife had a metallic blue and white with white interior Arrow. I think it was a 1.6. I don’t remember the details other than it was a manual and she preferred it over my manager’s anemic 231 V6 76 Buick Regal coupe. I spent the summer in and around Granite City and East St Louis. What I didn’t know then I know now!

Mine was a 2.6- five speed manual and discs at all four corners.

uplanderguy

I liked these cars new, and I still do. His price is insane, but looking at the car, I believe the 5,185 miles claim.

No AC, but on a hobby car I can live (and have lived) with that.

Optional round instrument cluster, bumper guards and strips which hide the unsightly bolts, and I like the white interior with red trim--and no, I've never owned a white belt nor white bucks!

It's a 305 by the 'U' in the VIN, darn it, but it looks like 15 inch wheels and tires to me, which would indicate the vaunted F-41 suspension option.

The '78 taillights are busy, but I think I could live with that.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/caprice-classic/2613457.html

ab348

Oddly, no shots of the seats on that Caprice and I have to think all-vinyl would be pretty uncommon on them but if you wanted white inside that’s what you had to take. I wonder if the headliner has sagged yet. Interesting that the seller includes a couple of shots of the rear bumper reinforcement beams, which was aluminum on these. When exposed to weather and especially salt, an electrolytic reaction occurred which rotted away the aluminum where the steel bolts to hold the steel bumper were attached. At some point GM made some all-steel versions in response to complaints.

fintail

That's a nice car. I've enjoyed that rear window since I was a little kid and a neighbor had one (we moved into that house around 1980 I am pretty sure). Seems like a lot, but I bet you could get it for a little less, and good luck finding another one. Not my first color choice, but that can be a tough demand, and I am sure that was a popular one when new.

uplanderguy said:

I liked these cars new, and I still do. His price is insane, but looking at the car, I believe the 5,185 miles claim.

No AC, but on a hobby car I can live (and have lived) with that.

Optional round instrument cluster, bumper guards and strips which hide the unsightly bolts, and I like the white interior with red trim--and no, I've never owned a white belt nor white bucks!

It's a 305 by the 'U' in the VIN, darn it, but it looks like 15 inch wheels and tires to me, which would indicate the vaunted F-41 suspension option.

The '78 taillights are busy, but I think I could live with that.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/caprice-classic/2613457.html

stickguy

I like the monza

In the berkshires this weekend. A few interesting ones all out driving. 75ish spitfire, early 60s econoline, and a 1952 beetle (with Vermont plates so not local)

andre1969

Would the GVWR be any indication of whether it has the F41 or not? I can't remember, did the F41 actually beef up the car, or was it just a rear sway bar? Anyway, this one's GVWR is 4967 lb, which to me seems kind of low for a car like that. But then, I think my grandmother's '85 LeSabre was around 5100 lb.

I used to think that the GVWR was a rough indication of how rugged a car was, especially if the spread between the curb weight and GVWR was larger. But then, I've heard it often depends on something as simple as whatever tires came stock on the car.

Even in base form though, I think a Caprice would still have had 15" rims, right? I don't think they ever put 14's on them. I'm thinking the base tire size was a 205/75/R15.

I like the fact that it at least gives you a temp gauge and fuel economy vacuum gauge. I think I'd hate that white vinyl interior, though. While it looks pretty, it just seems to me you'd have to treat it with kid gloves to keep it looking that nice.

sda

White interiors looked great when showroom new. The seats and door pulls, if white, soiled quickly and require cleaning frequently. I remember wiping mine down weekly when I washed the car. Sometime Fantastic or some other strong cleaner was needed to get it extra clean. If the car had the cloth padded headliner, those were really hard to keep clean as they would get dingy looking just from the the circulation of outside air or cigarette smoke.

ab348

sda said:

White interiors looked great when showroom new. The seats and door pulls, if white, soiled quickly and require cleaning frequently. I remember wiping mine down weekly when I washed the car.

The complaints about white vinyl car interiors needing cleaning always fascinate me. Underwear can be white/light in color or can be black/dark. Both get soiled at the same rate. But do people choose black underwear because they believe they don't need to change them as often, I wonder? Seems a strange way to think.

uplanderguy

Andre, our ‘77 Impala had 14 inch wheels and ‘F’ tires. ‘G’ tires in those cars indicated 15 inch wheels which were exclusive to the F-41 suspension.

REVISION: I’m riding in a car now, but looking at a window sticker for a ‘77 online just now, the FR78 tires were still on a 15 inch wheel; you are right. I remember the GR70 tires of the F-41 sure filled those big round wheel openings better.

ab348

andre1969 said:

Would the GVWR be any indication of whether it has the F41 or not? I can't remember, did the F41 actually beef up the car, or was it just a rear sway bar? Anyway, this one's GVWR is 4967 lb, which to me seems kind of low for a car like that. But then, I think my grandmother's '85 LeSabre was around 5100 lb.

F41 was a thicker front sway bar, the addition of a rear sway bar, and stiffer springs and shocks. Not sure if it included stiffer suspension bushings too or a different-feeling steering box. None of those necessarily affect total load capacity though, which is what GVWR indicates.

sda

I agree darker interiors soil at the same rate as white. White doesn’t seem to hide the presence of soil as well, thus the inclination to clean it more often. I won’t touch on the subject of underwear, just assume mine are clean, lol.

andre1969

Well if you want to make your underwear go longer between changes, I suggest brown

I tend to stay away from white clothes (underwear, socks, t-shirts) in general, not because of them getting dirty, but they get dingy/yellow out. Or sometimes they'll get a stain on them that just won't come out, no matter how much you wash it, and on white it shows up more than on a darker color.

For instance, here's a pic of a T-shirt I have, from the Chrysler Nationals in Carlisle PA, from back in 2004. Back then, they used to have a few new cars you could drive around a closed-off course, and they'd give you a t-shirt for doing it.
Now granted, this shirt is 18 years old, and I don't think it was a bright "refrigerator"/"arctic" white to begin with. But, to me it just seems like it's yellowed out some. I might seem like a hypocrite, since it's sitting on white carpet, but trust me, white would NOT have been my choice! The lady I bought this house from had a second story added on in 2008, and pretty much built the upstairs for her three kids, so they'd have their own bathroom, bedrooms, and a big rumpus room upstairs, and out of her hair. I'm surprised, with having kids, that she would have picked white carpet!

One drawback too, of wearing black socks, I guess, is that when little bits of fabric start to come off of them, it really shows on the white carpet! You wouldn't notice it so much with white socks.

The one car I owned with a white interior was a '68 Dodge Dart 270 hardtop. Basically, all the vinyl parts were white, while the rest was burgundy, with the exception of some black trim on the dashboard. It probably looked really nice when new, but by the time I got it, it was pretty bad. The front seat was pretty well shot. The back seat actually wasn't too bad, but was getting a bit of a yellowed look to it. The front door panels were missing, but the rear panels were intact, and again not too bad, but just had an aged look to them. But maybe that's not a fair example, either. That car was 24 years old, and had about 253,000 miles on it when I bought it. I imagine if I bought an antique car that had been either very well preserved, or just had its white interior redone, it might not be hard to keep it looking good, considering it wouldn't be an everyday car.

andre1969

Oh, this is for sale, about 3/4 of a mile from my house, parked along a high tension wire right of way... If Frank Cannon moonlighted as a pimp, I guess!

It's been sitting there a few weeks now. I'm kinda curious to stop off and look at it. I was able to zoom in on the pic, and can make out on the sign that it's a 1973, but I can't quite make out the price. For some odd reason, I don't mind the aftermarket rims and the raised white letter tires. I'd prefer it stock, but could live with it.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Andre, our ‘77 Impala had 14 inch wheels and ‘F’ tires. ‘G’ tires in those cars indicated 15 inch wheels which were exclusive to the F-41 suspension.

REVISION: I’m riding in a car now, but looking at a window sticker for a ‘77 online just now, the FR78 tires were still on a 15 inch wheel; you are right. I remember the GR70 tires of the F-41 sure filled those big round wheel openings better.

I think the spare in my '76 LeMans is an FR78. At least, that number sounds familiar. And, considering the mishap I had with the tires on my '67 Catalina last month, that LeMans is not going any serious distance, until I get all of its tires replaced. I'm not sure how old the tires are that are on it, but I bought the car in 2005, and never changed them.

I think one of the ultimate "cheapening" of tires in that downsizing era might go to the Mopar R-body. While they still used a 15" rim, the stock tire was a 195/75! I think the New Yorker might have used a slightly larger size, and a 225/70/R15 on a 15x7 rim were an option (I think that translates roughly to a GR70), but the St. Regis, Newport, and Gran Fury used that 195 series standard. I don't think I've ever seen one in person though. Most of the cars pictured in the sales brochures wisely show the cars equipped with the 225/70 on the 15x7 rims, which use a turbine style hubcap. It looks good, and gives the car a nice, wide stance, but those hubcaps tend to go flying when you hit bumps.

The '79 Ford Panthers actually went to a 14" rim, but at least used a 205/75 tire. I'm pretty sure a 15" was optional, right from the get-go, but I think they offered that base 14" for awhile.

sda

Those look like truck tires.

ab348

sda said:

Those look like truck tires.

Yes, Goodyear Wranglers are definitely truck tires. Possibly all the guy could find locally with white letters in that size, but totally inappropriate of course.

tjc78

I don’t like that rim and tire combo on that Lincoln at all. If you were attempting to make it sporty at least make it a slick top.

ab348

Thought @fintail and others might appreciate this pic. No year given, captioned as the M-B showroom at their Canadian head office in Toronto.

fintail

Pagoda in the showroom among the fintails, I will guess 1963-64 or so.

ab348 said:

Thought @fintail and others might appreciate this pic. No year given, captioned as the M-B showroom at their Canadian head office in Toronto.

andre1969

I saw this pic on facebook...dunno if it's a Delta 88 or a Ninety-Eight...
This particular example is probably extremely rare today, for two reasons. Anyone want to take a guess?

sda

andre1969 said:

I saw this pic on facebook...dunno if it's a Delta 88 or a Ninety-Eight...
This particular example is probably extremely rare today, for two reasons. Anyone want to take a guess?

Could be either. Olds Diesel. Where is the fuel gauge needle, hiding??

andre1969

LOL, I didn't even notice the fuel gauge needle was hiding! When I bought my '67 Catalina, there was no needle showing either. I figured it just fell off at some point. I keep a mileage log for all of my vehicles, so I figured it would be no big deal. Just get a good estimate for the car's fuel economy, and fill up after so many miles.

One day though, I happened to notice then needle moving lazily across its range. It would go beyond the "E" and disappear entirely, then move randomly back the other way, disappearing beyond the "F". And then, repeat. When I filled up, the needle went up beyond the "F", and stayed there out of sight. So, if nothing else, even though my fuel gauge doesn't work correctly, it still warns me when I'm low on fuel. I tend to keep it topped off though...hell I can't afford to fill that sucker up, from completely empty, any more!

andre1969

Again on facebook, here's a pic of a really nice '77 Impala...Per Uplanderguy's earlier comment, this one had me second guessing, maybe these DID come with a 14" rim standard?

But, there was another pic of the tire, where if you really zoom in, you can make out "215/70/R15"I think it's the hubcap that gives that impression. It's a small cap, that doesn't even cover the entire rim. For comparison, here's the 15" hubcap that's on my '79 Non-5th Ave New Yorker... It goes all the way to the flange of the rim.

I was surprised though, that the tire on that Impala is a 215/70. It looks so tiny in that gaping wheel well! In the pic that shows the whole car I don't think the wheels/tires look all that under-sized, but in that closeup is sure does.

sda

The Olds diesel also has the optional gauges which wasn’t that common. I wish dad’s Eldorado had at least a temp gauge it would have possibly prevented a blown head gasket. When the HOT light glowed it was too late.

andre1969

sda said:

The Olds diesel also has the optional gauges which wasn’t that common. I wish dad’s Eldorado had at least a temp gauge it would have possibly prevented a blown head gasket. When the HOT light glowed it was too late.

Bingo, that's it! Or, at least the two things I was thinking of...a functional Diesel, and the extra gauges.

andre1969

I think Olds and Pontiac were the only ones to offer a "true" full gauge package on their big cars. At least for me, "true" means you got temp, amps/volts, and oil. Most Chevies I've seen with extra gauges just added temp and a vacuum "economy" gauge, although I swear I've seen some where you got the amps/volts in place of the vacuum. When the big Pontiac came back as the Parisienne, it just used the Chevy dash, with four round gauge faces, but I think it still only offered the same gauges as Chevy.

As far as I know, Buick never did offer extra gauges on their downsized B/C bodies, although oddly, my 1985 Consumer guide makes a reference to them.

With Cadillac, I've heard that if you got the digital dash/trip computer or whatever, in some years they gave you extra functions, and temp at least may have been one of them. But you probably had to press a button to cycle through the various functions, to get it to display.

ab348

I've got a set - maybe even 2 - of those '77-'79 (and maybe beyond, though the dash woodgrain changed at some point there) of those Olds gauges down in the basement. When I had my '78 Delta I thought I might swap them over. But when I learned you needed new oil pressure and temp sending units plus major surgery to the wiring harness under the dash, I shelved those plans. I should dig them out and put them on Marketplace or one of the Oldsmobile groups.

explorerx4

How do you know that Olds still has a diesel in it?

andre1969

explorerx4 said:

How do you know that Olds still has a diesel in it?

Good point...but the owner was bragging about the 138,000 or whatever miles he got out of the "supposedly unreliable" "D-block."

I've never heard the term "D-block" before, but I'm presuming it's code for the Diesel?

roadburner

andre1969 said:

explorerx4 said:

How do you know that Olds still has a diesel in it?

Good point...but the owner was bragging about the 138,000 or whatever miles he got out of the "supposedly unreliable" "D-block."

I've never heard the term "D-block" before, but I'm presuming it's code for the Diesel?

IIRC, the diesel block was a reinforced version of the Olds gas 350. I remember Olds hot rodders prized them because they were a nice base for building a strong gas motor.

andre1969

Yeah, it was definitely a beefed up Olds 350, and serves as a great basis for hotrodding. Just don't try to make it a hotrod Diesel, I guess.

From what I've heard, the Diesel was improved considerably for 1980, and probably got running improvements until the end in 1985. I wonder, if GM had continued to improve it, perhaps it ultimately could have become a competent engine? I also heard that the Olds 4.3 Diesel V6, which was essentially the 350 with two cylinders lopped, wasn't *too* bad. Considering the era, that is.

uplanderguy

I like that '77 Impala. In some ways the styling is simpler and cleaner than the Caprice Classic. I do like the '77 grille and taillights. I'd have to get rid of those shades on the side windows.

Our coupe in bright red was a good car.

I always wanted this exact Caprice Classic, but in a coupe (and with clean whitewalls):


The chart here says the F-41 got you seven-inch wide wheels.

My Dad wouldn't buy a Colonnade coupe due to lack of headroom. I remember looking at full-size Chevys in '77 before he bought one; saw one next to a Malibu Classic or Monte Carlo, can't remember which, but besides being trimmer, the added height of the new full-size cars was quite noticeable.

andre1969

Where it says "15 x 7 opt, RPO F41" does that mean the 15x7 wheels came with the F41 option, or did it mean that if you wanted the 15x7 wheels, you had to order the F41 suspension, first?

The F41 option was only $49 in 1985, according to my Consumer Guide, at least. That seems like a major bargain to me, if it included bigger wheels. But then, it was still just a steel wheel, nothing fancy, so since you're simply substituting a 15x7 for a 15x6 on the assembly line, maybe the bigger wheels really didn't add much to the cost.

I'd be more than happy with that '77 Caprice, as equipped. I seem to remember someone testing a '77 with the 350 and the 3.08 rear, and getting 0-60 down to something like 9.6 or 9.8 seconds. Of course, with those carbureted cars, the time of year could make a difference, as temperature, and especially humidity, I think, would affect performance.

I also seem to remember one getting tested with the 350 and a 2.56:1 rear, and its 0-60 wasn't much worse than 10.8. Maybe that was a '79?

laurasdada

Black/Black/Black Nissan Murano Cross Cabriolet thing. So odd-looking, the Nissan Pacer.
Also, in my Facebook feed, White Triumph TR-7 Coupe and BRG over tan TR-8 Convertible for sale. Always had a thing for them...

stickguy

near my neighborhood, a 1970ish Red Ford Ranchero parked in a driveway. looked very nice. spiffed up (so stripes and shiny wheels).

and last night in Mass the same 52 Bug driving around, after dark. The headlights were pitiful. looked like a couple of weak lanterns on the front. I would not want to depend on those on a dark road.