I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Michaell

70's convertible day here in Colorado.

First was an immaculate orange TR-6.

Second was a 70's VW Beetle cabrio, dark blue.

Top was down on both of them.

fintail

Sometimes the Fairmont Futura coupe/Mercury sibling coupe gives me the odd proportion thing. Ford did the too short wheelbase a bit (look at an early 80s Lincoln two door), and the greenhouse of the Fairmont Futura coupe looks too tall, but also kind of narrow, but I only notice at some angles. It's just a little off to me.

I might prefer it to the peak malaise 80-82 Bird though, never warmed up to those unlike the disco or aero Birds.

andre1969 said:

In grades 6-8, I went to private schools, because the public schools had gone downhill REAL fast in the early 80s. In 6th grade I went to a school that was maybe 1 1/2 miles away, but off of a busy road. We were living across the street from my grandparents by then, so Grandmom or Granddad would usually drive me to school and pick me up. It was a small school, and you had to pay extra if you wanted to ride the bus.

One interesting memory I have of 6th grade is one Friday, my paternal Grandparents came to pick me up, because I was spending the weekend with them. They had their '81 Granada 2-door, that was a nice 2-tone mocha/creme type scheme. One of my friends and I were looking out the window, at the line of cars waiting to pick the kids up, and he asked which one was my grandparents, and I pointed to the Granada. And he was like "WOW, are your Grandparents RICH or something?! That's the nicest looking car out there!"

I guess us 6th graders were easily fooled! Although I do remember that Granada getting a lot of compliments at the time. Nowadays the proportions bug me a bit. Things like the roof seeming too big for the rest of the car, and making it look top-heavy, and the wheelbase seeming a bit too short in relation to the overall length of the car:

uplanderguy

RE.: Ford 'too short wheelbase'--I always felt that way, looking at Thunderbirds throughout much of the sixties, but then I was always comparing them to a Gran Turismo Hawk.

sda

I guess to be different, I wouldn't mind having a very clean, low mileage, 80-82 T-Bird with the 302 V8, fully optioned, pop-up sunroof and with the 'sport suspension'.

ab348

Ford design under Gene Bordinat in the '70s loved long front overhangs for some reason. I assume that was because they were saving money by using a chassis from what was originally designed as a smaller vehicle but the product planners wanted a bigger car so they could sell it as a quasi-luxury model for more money and bigger margins.

Re, the Fairmont Futura, it was an interesting departure when it was introduced because it retained the boxy lower body of the Fairmont with that swoopy T-bird-ish roofline. It stood out as quite the contrast and at the time it seemed to appeal to many potential buyers. One thing I never could confirm but always wondered about: I'm not particularly tall (I was not quite 6'1" at that time) and was very disappointed when I visited the local Ford showroom to see one shortly after it was introduced. I was disappointed on two fronts. First, the interior in the showroom model was exactly like the regular Fairmont, with a rather taxicab quality seat and door panel treatment that did not go with the story the exterior was selling. But the one thing that really got to me was when I went to sit behind the wheel my head pushed into the headliner. In that car at least, there was no way I could drive it. It occurred to me later that they must have bolted a 2-door Fairmont sedan seat assembly into the lower-roofed Futura, at least in that specific example. I can't imagine that was intentional but I always wondered if there were many of them assembled that way.

uplanderguy

I guess when I was thinking about Thunderbirds with a short-looking wheelbase, these are the ones I was mostly thinking of.


For years I thought, "These are pretty nice-looking cars" but today, I don't really think so much anymore.

andre1969

With those Thunderbirds, I can see that stubbiness in the '64-66 style as well when you look at it from the side, but somehow, the '61-63 seems better blended. To me, the '58-60 looks like they took a longer car, but cut a few inches out of the wheelbase, between the door and the axle. But with the '64-66, it looks like they somehow tried to take the front 2/3 of a larger car, and mate it with the rear 1/3 of a smaller car.

I wonder if that odd proportioning is because of the way the Thunderbird evolved? While it started off as a 2-seater, perhaps when it went to the 4-seat design, they tried too hard to make it look like a 2-seater in the proportioning? Meanwhile, cars like the Speedster/Hawk, Riviera, and Toronado evolved more like your typical personal luxury coupe, and always with a back seat in mind.

uplanderguy

You're probably right, andre.

I'm thinking (without verifying) that '60's T-Bird wheelbases were about 114". Hawks were 120.5" although the cars don't seem bigger to my eyes. But I notice on 'Birds how the rear wheels seem kind-of far-up-front in the scheme of things.

texases

uplanderguy said:

I guess when I was thinking about Thunderbirds with a short-looking wheelbase, these are the ones I was mostly thinking of.


For years I thought, "These are pretty nice-looking cars" but today, I don't really think so much anymore.

I agree, and Chrysler also had its share of misses during this time. They both had trouble competing with GM, style-wise.

andre1969

Another thing that helped Studebaker's style, in my opinion, is that the cars were narrower. I think the Hawks were around 204" long, but only around 71-72" wide. So that made them look sleeker, and not as stubby. The T-birds were similar, around 204-205" long, but more like 77-78" wide, which was close to your typical full-sized car of the time.

The Riviera and Toronado were also wide, but longer, both in length and wheelbase. Their body sides seemed a bit more tapered too, wheras the T-bird seems more slab-sided. It's almost like GM tried to tone down their cars so they looked a bit more trim, whereas the T-bird tried to accentuate its width.

uplanderguy

Spot on on the Hawk's dimensions--I have the '63 sales brochure, and width is 71" and length is 204". Height (loaded) is 54 3/5".

Probably not a sales advantage at the time, although I always like that Studes seem trim, which most of the rest of the market did starting in about '77 it seems. Plenty of goofy styling though I'll admit, like '50's sedans and big canted fins on Hawks through '61.

Here's my favorite factory photo of a '64 Hawk. The fender vents are the biggest link to the car starting life as a '53, but I like this car a lot.


It's funny for me to think that I was getting ready to start kindergarten when that photo was taken.

uplanderguy

Weird, the Hawk pic is visible on my laptop, but on my phone, there's an "X" in a box only and no pic. Sigh.

andre1969

Oddly, I can see that Hawk pic from my work-issued computer, but not my home computer. If anyone's having trouble seeing the pic, here's the url for the page it's listed on: https://www.studebakermuseum.org/blog/1964-studebaker-hawks/

uplanderguy

Thanks, andre.

I love the no-outside-mirror look, but who could live with that?

Michaell

For anyone interested, that '79 Grand Am with the V8/4-speed stick sold for over $20K this week.

sda

Michaell said:

For anyone interested, that '79 Grand Am with the V8/4-speed stick sold for over $20K this week.

Though rare and unusual that seems over priced.

uplanderguy

Yikes. I like that Grand Am, but man.

fintail

I think that Pontiac was dear, but where is one going to find another? With money not being what it used to be, and later cars like that being a new generation of collectibles, perhaps both well bought and well sold.

On the road today while in the old car, saw a blue and white 53-54 Chevy sedan that looked like a 70s hot rod, and a pristine black 52-53 ish Olds, driven by an older guy who gave me a wave.

stickguy

Many oldies driving around this weekend in the berkshires. Perfect weather and I saw a few car show signs.

texases

Two GMs, not very related: a C3, with the final version one-piece tail/bumper cover/spoiler, and an Aztec, both looked to be in very good shape.

roadburner

Saw this XR-7 on our nightly dog walk. I have to admit I wouldn’t mind one with the 351-4V.

uplanderguy

My 85-year old friend Ed’s ‘64 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawk at Summit Racing last Saturday. 41k miles, one repaint in the original Moonlight Silver (wish it were a more vivid color), Avanti R1 engine, disc brakes, Powershift automatic (PRND21), and the complete Super package including suspension bits. This car was sold new in Massillon, OH down the road, at a Stude/Jeep dealer. My friend pursued the second owner for a couple decades and bought it about five years ago.

uplanderguy

On the dash you can see the dealer plaque offered to owners of Hawks then, and it has engraved "Fran and Marge" on it. That made me go, "Hmmmm"....

I wrote to the Stude Museum and got the build sheet and retail sale paperwork for my friend, who wouldn't have gone to that length but was happy I got them for him, and the original owner's name was "Francis". So apparently he was called "Fran" instead of "Frank" or "Francis".

It was built Monday Nov. 25, 1963, the day of President Kennedy's funeral.

xwesx

uplanderguy said:

On the dash you can see the dealer plaque offered to owners of Hawks then, and it has engraved "Fran and Marge" on it. That made me go, "Hmmmm"....

I wrote to the Stude Museum and got the build sheet and retail sale paperwork for my friend, who wouldn't have gone to that length but was happy I got them for him, and the original owner's name was "Francis". So apparently he was called "Fran" instead of "Frank" or "Francis".

It was built Monday Nov. 25, 1963, the day of President Kennedy's funeral.

Wow! That adds a little perspective.

uplanderguy

Same guy has owned a black '64 Daytona convertible for decades, that was built two days later, on Nov. 27, 1963, the day before Thanksgiving that year.

I found that out for him as well.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

My 85-year old friend Ed’s ‘64 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawk at Summit Racing last Saturday. 41k miles, one repaint in the original Moonlight Silver (wish it were a more vivid color), Avanti R1 engine, disc brakes, Powershift automatic (PRND21), and the complete Super package including suspension bits. This car was sold new in Massillon, OH down the road, at a Stude/Jeep dealer. My friend pursued the second owner for a couple decades and bought it about five years ago.

I love seeing those cars at shows and cruise-ins. Original wheels or wheel covers. Wow.

uplanderguy

Those are the '64 Full Wheel Disks, standard equipment on Hawks.

sda

I always liked these. Crispy styled and great drivers. @texases You like? https://youtu.be/icXzwRYW5YM?si=ej_HFUuZzSV8-7rY

texases

Ja, sehr schön!

fintail

On the road today, the yellow ~70 Dart hardtop I see now and then, a parked ~50 Chevy pickup with some hipstery patina, and a sky blue and white 55 Chevy sedan.

laurasdada

sda said:

I always liked these. Crispy styled and great drivers. @texases You like? https://youtu.be/icXzwRYW5YM?si=ej_HFUuZzSV8-7rY

My first car (that I bought)!

ab348

I always felt that the original Scirocco was a very good design. It was shockingly small by today's standards. Unfortunately up here in the salt belt they dissolved very quickly. The second-gen seemed a bit more durable but I cannot remember the last time I saw one here. I knew a very attractive young lady who owned one in the '90s who (even aside from her looks and personality) impressed me because she used to do some work on it herself. I should have married her!

uplanderguy

I used to ride to work with a guy who had an '81 Scirocco S. He used to goof on my having an '81 Monte Carlo that was virtually the same price, but as even a short guy, the back seat was torture, LOL! I used to goof on the one windshield wiper and that the dash waved at you as he let the clutch out, but he did always say it was fun to drive.

laurasdada

Yes, my '78 Scirocco rusted a bit; IIRC for mine it was a front fender. But, light and fun to drive as well as a handsome design.
I was entirely disappointed with the styling of Gen 2, never considered it. And I craved a bit more kick in the pants action, hence the Scirocco was replaced by my first new car, the arrest me red '85 Mitsu Mirage Turbo. Love that lag!

texases

This is similar to my '79 S, black, front air dam, but mine didn't have the lettering, instead it has a silver and red stripe that ran from the front fender to the rear, and up the C pillar. Not my choice, I bought the car used in '81.



@uplanderguy - you got stuck in the rear seat? Yikes. I had to recline my seat to where it almost touched the rear seat to get enough headroom. My GTI that replaced it was MUCH better, headroom-wise.

kyfdx

I wanted one of those, so bad..

texases

Finally found a pic of the exact model I had (except for the fog lights and white-letter tires). Note the other stripe on the hood. Odd coincidence, I drove by a duplicate, except in white, while driving it:

explorerx4

My Scirocco looked like that too, except I didn't have covers on the fog lights.

laurasdada

Mine was white/black trim, black Recaro seats. Same amber fog lights.
Your hood ornament is probably the best option.

explorerx4

@laurasdada,
One of them still looks pretty good today. Hint, not the one with the mudflaps.

tifighter

Saw a Renault Clio V6 today in Bend. This is the performance mid engined Clio-

Very cool car and even more interesting that it had Oregon plates, but these weren’t made before 2001. So maybe the registration says it is a Le Car or something.

fintail

I've read some have circumvented our deranged private import rules via landing in FL first, where apparently anything can be registered - haven't tried it myself, but it sounds believable (just as I have heard re-registering a car in ID can hide history).

What early oughts forbidden fruit would I want, maybe an Avantime.

tifighter said:

Saw a Renault Clio V6 today in Bend. This is the performance mid engined Clio-

Very cool car and even more interesting that it had Oregon plates, but these weren’t made before 2001. So maybe the registration says it is a Le Car or something.

roadburner

In the '80s I know more than a few European cars were airlifted by MAC transports and thus evaded US Customs.

fintail

Out on the road this morning spotted a 63 Buick 6 window sedan in traffic - a very unrestored "well-loved" looking car, pretty random.

benjaminh

Thanks for your posts and videos, which I've been catching up on and enjoying.

This summer I went on a road trip of about 5k miles from Louisville to California and back, about half of the time staying with family and friends, taking different routes each way. The first part of the trip I was driving with my spouse, and after she flew home from Denver I had a week traveling with my dear old Mom. After a few days on the coast I drove back home solo on a more southerly route. Stayed one night in Amarillo, where I'd heard of the Cadillac ranch since I was a kid. This was kind of a bucket list stop, and I didn't regret it. Visited that and got some pix in case anyone is interested, but even more enjoyed Bill's Backyard Car Classics in Amarillo. This museum has something like ninety cars, proudly overseen by Bill himself who will take you on a tour. He was chatting up a bigger group as I walked solo around the museum. Heard him say that almost all the cars run and he takes a lot of them out on drives. Anyway, here's a collage of the first car that caught my eye. Most of the rest are from the 1950s and 1960s.

https://www.billsbackyardclassics.com/

benjaminh

benjaminh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Ranch

uplanderguy

Curmudgeon alert!

Spent much of the weekend driving the wife's Equinox. I hate tire noise and the Michelins (you know, God's gift to tires) are wearing well but are pretty noisy, with about 40K miles on them. I know, too, that the Equinox is a low-priced SUV of its size and to make MPG go up, soundproofing weight probably comes out.

I rode in a friend's 2016 M-B with about 45K miles and I thought the tires were noisy as well (not as noisy as in my Equinox). Also had trouble getting my fat head in the rear door cutout. I don't know which model it is, as I don't remember alpha-numeric names well, but he answered that it wasn't the smallest four-door sedan but the next size up. He likes the car.

Both made me wish for the days of absolute whisper-quiet cars for road trips. i can remember the '77 full-size Chevy brochure saying about the Caprice Classic, "You'll find it hard to believe a moving car can be this quiet". My friend's parents' new Caprice Classic sedan was absolute silence inside--quieter than our same-year Impala which didn't have the optional 'Quiet Sound Group' which got you the Caprice's extra sound insulation.

I so-could enjoy a new '77 Caprice Classic with F41 and 350 engine. Not obnoxiously large but good-driving, and again....oh so quiet. Fill in your choice of other GM B-bodies of the period, same experience I'm sure.

Back to modern reality.

benjaminh

I think I first heard about the Cadillac Ranch when I was about ten, which was right when it happened. I already admired Cadillacs then, from National Geographic ads and from the neighbor's new Sedan DeVille down the street. The idea of burying Cadillacs struck me then as crazy. And I'm not sure that half a century has changed my mind all that much. But yeah, it's created a tourist attraction for all that time for Amarillo, and it's kind of a pre-Mad Max car apocalypse art project. At the Amarillo Art Museum they were having a display of historic pictures of the Cadillac Ranch to mark its 50th anniversary. Saw those before actually going to the place and seeing what it looks like today, with cans of spray paint being sold for people to add their own touches to what's left of those cars.

As mentioned I liked Bill's local car museum in Amarillo better, which had lots of beautifully preserved Cadillacs from that era, as well as Lincolns, Mercuries, Pontiacs, and this 1956 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Coupe.

uplanderguy

I stopped at Cadillac Ranch in 2019 while moving my daughter to San Luis Obispo, CA. We drove from St. Louis to Amarillo in one day. We stayed in a hotel a couple miles away from Cadillac Ranch and she wasn't interested, but I went and was glad I did. It wasn't quite what I was expecting, but fun anyways.

Also in CA a couple days later, by accident we drove past where James Dean had his fatal accident. It was marked. That made me become somewhat interested in Dean and that accident and I've visited his hometown of Fairmount, IN a couple times since.