I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348

The 2000 Impala was a terrible styling job in an era where GM design was at a very low ebb. Front end was ugly and the less said about the rear end the better. As a veteran sales guy at my local GM dealer said when I went to look at them after their introduction, "They should have called it "Biscayne," referring to the two-light rear end.

ab348

A new Cloudflare error I have never seen before in full-screen mode:



Edit to add @Kirstie_H to the mix.

uplanderguy

Really, the only '00 to '05 Impala or Monte Carlo I'd have even thought about getting, was the '02 because they had a very deep dark green, one-year-only, and a very light, buff-colored cloth interior available. You could get the 3.8 in the base Impala without getting the LS with those polished wheels that looked like aftermarket and without the '94 Impala SS-like big-a** 'Impala' nameplates on the side.

The '02 Impala and Monte Carlo LS had the original-style aluminum wheels that came out in '00, but midyear they started having the entire face of the wheel polished, instead of just the small round center like earlier ones had.

For a brief period, the Monte could be had with those wheels AND the old knights-head C-pillar emblem, which I liked. Not long after the all-polished wheel was introduced, the knights-head emblem disappeared.

uplanderguy

I'll have to look online at Skylines, since the rear view of a '73 Chevelle is one of my favorite parts of that car, along with the fact that every two-door had the big triangular quarter window.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I'll have to look online at Skylines, since the rear view of a '73 Chevelle is one of my favorite parts of that car, along with the fact that every two-door had the big triangular quarter window.

They're not a dead ringer for each other, and perhaps glaucoma or macular degeneration might help with the comparison, but here's a Skyline...
I think something else that might have hurt the Impala was that Chevy was trying to use a midsized platform to substitute for a big car. Pontiac, Olds, and Buick had use of the C/H platform (I think it was eventually consolidated and called "G" towards the end) for their larger cars. Maybe that helped preserve the old hierarchy, where you got a more upscale, exclusive car as you moved up through the divisional ranks, but in the end, I think it hurt Chevy.

Back in 2000, it also seemed to me like Mopar and GM were a bit "out of phase" with their size classes. They seemed fairly well matched with small cars: Cavalier, Focus, Neon. But from there, it fell apart. The 2000 Taurus felt to me about like what a midsized car "should" feel like. But the Malibu and its kin, as well as the Stratus, felt more like a big compact, than a true midsized car. Again here, I think Chevy's problem was that the N-body, or P-something or whatever it was called by 2000, was used as a compact car for Pontiac/Olds (Grand Am/Alero), but was trying to pass off as midsized for the Malibu.

And then, in the full-sized class, the Crown Vic feels like a true full-sized car to me. But neither the Intrepid nor the Impala do. Even among GM's more upscale FWD offerings, they still felt more like a "tweener" car to me. Big for a midsized, but not a true full-sizer. I think my old 2000 Park Avenue had interior volume that rivaled the Crown Vic, but that was mostly thanks to headroom and legroom. The EPA goes by an interior volume index to establish size classes, but to me, it seems like shoulder room is the determining factor of whether a car "feels" full-sized.

uplanderguy

The Skyline reminds me a bit of the Cobalt coupe in the taillight department.

I liked the looks of the Cobalt coupe but both of ours were sedans as my kids were getting bigger. Both were good cars, smooth and quiet for their plebeian pricing. Built locally too.

After I no longer owned either I received two checks for $97 each, for the ignition switch class action lawsuit.

Andre, I loathed those ‘97 to whatever ‘new’ Malibus. Lol

ab348

Well, the 2000 Impala replaced the Lumina, which had been introduced as GM’s Taurus-fighter. Those were never considered full-size cars.

fintail

I recall visiting home in the summer of 99, and the little old lady across the street bought a new 00 Impala (I recall it was an early launch) - a highly equipped model with wheels, etc - always seemed funny to me as at the time the car looked somewhat aggressive, and the driver was in her 80s.

I have no data, but I have to suspect the 1st gen Lumina sold better - seems to have had a lot of traction early on, while the 2nd gen went to a fleet special. Of course, the Taurus was a stereotypical fleet car by the mid 90s, I remember they were a fixture on some TV shows.

uplanderguy

A guy I worked with at a new client site had a new, early '96 or '97 (?) Taurus in a Taupe-ish color. That total ovoid thing was a turnoff to me. A few model years later when they softened that a good bit, they looked much better to my eyes.

fintail

I low-key like the ovoid Taurus - not a classic beauty, but goofy and 90s to me, approaching retro car status. Earlier ones could be had with oddly patterned upholstery, which only helps. Those and the heavy facelift models seem to be hit and miss - either people had issues or they were tanks. My grandma had an 03 SEL, picked up cheap (I think like ~12K) as a ~10K mile same year ex-rental. Had few issues with it, stayed in the family until 2021.

texases

I have trouble coming up with another car that went from great to terrible styling in such a short period, compared to the Taurus.

fintail

My mom had a 93 Taurus back in the day, I thought the 92+ refresh had a very clean look that aged well.

andre1969

Uplander, you did better than my family did, with regards to those class-action settlements. I remember getting a voucher that would give $1000 off I traded my Granddad's old saddle-tank C-10 Silverado on a new GM product. It dropped to $500 after a certain timeframe, then $250 I think, and I believe it ultimately expired.

I liked that truck, and at the time, saw no need to go into debt with a new vehicle, just to use the voucher, so I just let it expire. Plus, I don't play with model rocket igniters, and if I ever got t-boned on the driver's side at 73 mph, I'd probably be dead whether it blew up or not! So, I felt pretty safe in it.

As for the '97-03 Malibu, to me it was just sort of "there." I didn't love it, but didn't hate it either. I remember looking at a few of them on the lot, the day I bought my Intrepid. And I think they were in the $16-17K range sticker price. I forget what my Intrepid stickered for now. I do remember the MSRP was $20,950 with freight, and I paid $22,389 out the door, with tax, tags, probably a junk fee here and there, and a 5yr/100K mile extended warranty that I never had to use once.

The Malibu didn't seem bad, for the money. But, I just couldn't do it; it would have felt too much like settling, so I sprang the few extra thousand for the 'Trep. On a monthly basis, it might not have been all that much more, anyway. They were offering 0.9% financing on the Intrepid, but nothing special for the Malibu. And back then, I think new car rates were around 7%.

I did have an '01 Malibu for a rental on a business trip. And it reinforced my initial feelings about the car. Just sort of "meh." But, at its price point, probably not a bad deal.

A couple years before, I had a '99 Alero coupe for a rental, out in California. It was green, and had the Quad-4. Now that car, I liked a LOT!

texases

fintail said:

My mom had a 93 Taurus back in the day, I thought the 92+ refresh had a very clean look that aged well.

Especially the SHO:

fintail

My mom's was a normal GL, like this but white with black door handles (94-95 had body color) - same wheels too:



I think 92s tended to have non-body color bumpers too, save for SHO. Hers had an all-blue interior which I didn't mind, I nicknamed it the "government fleet car", although the optional wheels might not have been seen on those. It drove nice and the 3.8 seemed more than adequate, but of course it lost its head gasket around 80K, and my mom migrated to Toyota.

andre1969

My grandparents had two Tauruses. The first was an '89 LX, and the second was a '94 GL. They were both pretty nice cars, and I liked them both in their own way. I think the '94 had nicer proportions overall, but seemed a bit toned down and conservative compared to the '89. The '89 just seemed bolder.

The '89 had the 3.8, which was known for head gasket issues, and I think the transmission was traditionally a trouble spot on those. My grandparents had no troubles in that regard, but they also didn't keep it all that long. However, towards the end, it did stall out every once in awhile, which is why Granddad traded it. Grandmom was getting pretty sick, and had frequent doctor/hospital visits, so he wanted something new and reliable. Plus, he was in the habit of trading every 3-4 years anyway, and this car was now 5 years old.

The '94 had the 3.0. Never any major issues, although I do remember some minor component rusting out, like a swaybar link or something like that. And I remember replacing the battery for him at some point, just as a precautionary measure. I was impressed that the radio kept all of its presets when I took the old battery out. He ended up keeping that car about 10 years, and it went to one of my cousins, when Granddad voluntarily gave up his license just before turning 90. I used to drive it every once in awhile, and I remember later in its life, there was the faint smell of coolant. Heater core starting to leak, maybe?

I also remember taking Granddad to look at the '00 Tauruses when they first came out. He really liked my Intrepid when I got it, but that really wasn't a good "old people" car. Bad visibility, low seating position, etc. But when we got to the dealer, Granddad took one look at the Taurus, said he didn't like it, and let's just go. The salesman had to practically beg him to even sit in it. And, with a bit of prodding from me, he finally did. For about a minute, and then got out of it and wanted to go home.

He never did say what he didn't like about it. After that, Dad said, maybe we should take him to look at the Impala! But, we never got around to it.

Now that I think about it, the '03 Regal my Dad got a few years later, was a good "old people's" car. I thought it had a good seating position with a pretty wide range of motion. My Dad was only about 5'8", but he was comfortable in it. And at 6'3", I could get comfortable as well. The seat could go up high and close, or low and far back, and it had pretty good visibility all around. I could also see most of the hood, and rear deck from the driver's seat. With the Intrepid, I couldn't see anything of the car ahead of the windshield base, and the C-pillars, plus that little blacked out area at the rear part of the door, made a pretty bad blind spot.

imidazol97

I've wondered why 1960 Fords are seldom seen at cruise- ins. I saw two last weekend in Indiana.
Sad. So messed up.

uplanderguy

I can remember as a kid seeing '60 Fords with reflectors in the lower scooped-out bumper section, that mirrored the taillights. Don't know if that was a factory accessory or aftermarket.

andre1969

I tried to google some pics to see if I could find any '60 Fords with reflectors. I can swear I've seen them, too, and that spot does seem to beg for them. But, to no avail, although admittedly I didn't look THAT hard.

Looking through pics reminded me of one thing, though...that backup lights were still optional on many cars back then! The 2-door sedan that Imidazol posted above appears to have them, two small circles within the trim piece on the rear, just inboard of the taillights.

In the 1960 brochure, none of the illustrations seem to show backup lights...not even the convertible: They might have just drawn them that way to make them look cleaner, though. With the pics I found online though, it looked like the more uplevel models, that had that silver trim between the taillights, tended to have the backup lights, whereas the more basic models, without that trim piece, did not have them.

ab348

Factory option. From the 1960 Ford brochure:

imidazol97

I did find one 1960 Ford wearing the lower reflector lights. There used to be several.
Of course there's the optional rubber bumper guards, the awful hood ornament, and the awful, awful continental kit. Fender skirts? Not to my liking, but not awful.

andre1969

D'oh! Guess I should have looked through the whole brochure! I only looked at the illustrations of the cars, but didn't bother to look at the details further back in the brochure. Here's another interesting option: I always tended to think of those continental tire kits as aftermarket add-ons, applied years later, but here Ford is offering it straight off the showroom floor!

Apparently this is what it looked like, installed on the vehicle:

texases

Those park bench Continental kits never look good, to me.

kyfdx

Woof!

fintail

I've never seen a 60 Ford in person with reflectors, but have seen very few 60 Fords in person to begin with. Same with reverse lights - my dad's moderately optioned Country Sedan didn't have them. I've always wondered what the logic was for having non-round rear lights for one model year - I suspect a styling theme that was going to be a direction but was quickly abandoned.

The continental kit is an acquired taste I have not acquired.

sda

I quickly learned the value of back up lights when we lived in rural VA. My 62 Ford Galaxie did not have them. In pitch dark, it was almost impossible to see anything while trying to back up. The brake and license plate lights provided minimal illumination.

stickguy

I thought they were more meant so people behind you knew you were backing up!

texases

I wish I had a photo - we put a backup light on my '65 Mustang that was near the size/brightness of a headlight. My dad wasn't messing around! I never considered what somebody behind me thought when I lit that thing up...

sda

When mom's 78 Olds 98 Regency was over 10 years Old and had 160k+ mi, dad decided a newer car was needed. Mom's primary requirement is that it had a moonroof/astroroof. She loved that feature on her 98. A very clean, top of the line 87 Taurus LX with 13k and moonroof was purchased in late 89. She drove it until 2000 when it needed suspension work. It had less than 60k on it. Thankfully, it never had the dreaded heater core issue. I remember Click and Clack shaming Ford for those faulty heater cores. A friend of mine who used to run a church based car lot that provided transportation for those in need said he loved when he got a Taurus. They were typically good and cheap to repair. He did say the 3.0 Vulcan was the better engine for long term. The 3.8 not so, with the head gasket issues, and the Dura-tech was ok.

tjc78

I know we have talked about it before but I had a 93 Taurus LX with the 3.8. Silver over grey leather. It was not a reliable car but I did like it. Had nearly every factory option leather, dual power seats, JBL, power moonroof etc, only missing auto temp. The LX had nice wheels and body cladding. Every so often someone would ask me if it was an SHO.

fintail

I remember at least the 94-95 LX had a wheel with kind of machined finish that looked nice:



I think the finish on earlier examples of that wheel might have been silver painted. I can't recall the last time I saw one of the high spec cars on the road.

tjc78

You are correct. My car had those wheels but they were silver painted. The machined ones were much nicer.

sda

The wheels on the 87 were polycast argent color on steel rims meant to resemble aluminum wheels. I didn’t care for the look of them. Worse yet, when dad replaced the tires, he had whitewalls installed. Just no.

fintail

Our Tempo had polycast wheels (with a chrome accent ring at the edge, not sure if I have seen another like that, period accessory perhaps) - I didn't know what that was at the time, just that they were kind of odd to clean, semi-porous finish in a way. I also remember clearly telling my mom to not get whitewalls for it, she probably would have done the same.

sda

fintail said:

Our Tempo had polycast wheels (with a chrome accent ring at the edge, not sure if I have seen another like that, period accessory perhaps) - I didn't know what that was at the time, just that they were kind of odd to clean, semi-porous finish in a way. I also remember clearly telling my mom to not get whitewalls for it, she probably would have done the same.

I forgot about the chrome ring. They were a bear to reinstall without denting them.

uplanderguy

Low-line '60 Fords, like those couple photos above--I never noticed how the front wheel opening is flared, but the rear is not. Makes it look like the rear quarters are filled with an amateur bondo job, when the car is in good shape! LOL

ab348

The things you find on BaT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/matchbox-collection/

stickguy

I got many boxes of those in the basement. No cardboard boxes they came in, but offer me $250 and you can have at least 200!

fintail

That never caught my eye on 60 Fords - the stainless/chrome trim on higher models really makes a difference.

That Matchbox collection might approach full retail knowing BaT, maybe I should sell mine there.

fintail

sda said:

fintail said:

Our Tempo had polycast wheels (with a chrome accent ring at the edge, not sure if I have seen another like that, period accessory perhaps) - I didn't know what that was at the time, just that they were kind of odd to clean, semi-porous finish in a way. I also remember clearly telling my mom to not get whitewalls for it, she probably would have done the same.

I forgot about the chrome ring. They were a bear to reinstall without denting them.

She'd probably not like me mentioning it, but I remember my mom parking a little inaccurately and at least partially removing one of those rings, which gave it an imperfection. I think I have a vague memory of pressing it into place. When I randomly saw the car again years later (smallish town, just a matter of time) it had aftermarket wheels - that was probably over 20 years ago now, I suspect the car doesn't exist today.

roadburner

fintail said:

That never caught my eye on 60 Fords - the stainless/chrome trim on higher models really makes a difference.

That Matchbox collection might approach full retail knowing BaT, maybe I should sell mine there.

I swore that I wouldn't put as many cars in my office as I had in my old office (north of 350 cars collected over 22 years), but in 6 years I have close to 200.

Part of my old office:


The Mercedes section of my current office (there are also BMW, Mini, and Wrangler sections):

stickguy

Once I get our shed and I can clean out the garage, I might put up some shelves and display my model car collection out there. Won't annoy the wife at least.

roadburner

I'm going to have to display most of mine in the finished basement.

Michaell

For those of you with collections that you're ready to part with, Colorado Diecast here will review, appraise and buy them from you.

My best friend in CA has a bunch of 60's era Corgi toys that he's looking to dig out of his garage.

roadburner

If my son doesn't want them I'm donating them to the BMW CCA Foundation museum- the BMWs, at any rate.

ab348

fintail said:

That never caught my eye on 60 Fords - the stainless/chrome trim on higher models really makes a difference.

That Matchbox collection might approach full retail knowing BaT, maybe I should sell mine there.

The collection on BaT is being sold by Dean Laumbach, who is a broker of primo ‘60s-‘80s Benzes.

fintail

ab348 said:

fintail said:

That never caught my eye on 60 Fords - the stainless/chrome trim on higher models really makes a difference.

That Matchbox collection might approach full retail knowing BaT, maybe I should sell mine there.

The collection on BaT is being sold by Dean Laumbach, who is a broker of primo ‘60s-‘80s Benzes.

I noticed that - I wonder if his link is making people want to bid more.

fintail

roadburner said:

<
I swore that I wouldn't put as many cars in my office as I had in my old office (north of 350 cars collected over 22 years), but in 6 years I have close to 200.

Part of my old office:

Nice - I should get a pic of mine, which are stored a little more plainly, most just stacked in their boxes. I have maybe 200 boxed old Matchbox and 200 Tomica (70s-80s era vehicles) along with a handful of others, a fintail collection and some other MBs, etc. I was really into collecting for awhile, but kind of reached that point where what I want/need is just too expensive I guess, $200+++ for a small scale toy car is hard to swallow.

stickguy

I just have a lot of them in the plastic carry cases (with individual compartments). and some older ones from when I was a young kid in a shoe box, but those are all well used (or beat up) so definitely not collectible. I also have a couple dozen I guess 1/16th scall models (screwed to bases) with no place to display them yet. None of those are in the box either.

fintail

stickguy said:

I just have a lot of them in the plastic carry cases (with individual compartments). and some older ones from when I was a young kid in a shoe box, but those are all well used (or beat up) so definitely not collectible. I also have a couple dozen I guess 1/16th scall models (screwed to bases) with no place to display them yet. None of those are in the box either.

If you have any Hot Wheels with redline tires, they can be worth a bit even if playworn - "redlines" have remained a hot item for a while now. Playworn Matchbox tend to not have a ton of value, Matchbox people really like mint or mint in box.