I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andys120

Oh, you're thinking of the Alfetta GTV of the '70s, it was indeed a hatchback but not a boxy one>

bobbybuche

i get to see a 1959 thunderbird with a one of a kind parade car package that wasnt released until i believe 62 everyday in my garage i believe it could be the prototype to the already nearly impossible package to find how bout that :P

Mr_Shiftright

I suppose you'd have to interview and research the family records of Bud Kaufman, who designed the 1962 parade boot (tonneau).

fintail

I noticed something big driving by out my window...I glanced out, and it was a 55-56 Imperial sedan, the kind with the pods on the rear fender tips. Looked nice.

magnette

I can never understand why the electrics on the US market Sterlings were so unreliable. Most of the same model sold here were police cars - either on our motorways or in London, Birmingham, etc. The police didn't seem to have any trouble with them...

alltorque

Magnette, Had exactly the same thought. Used to know a Met WPC Traffic Officer who always said they were fast, comfy and handled pretty well but one or two had a rather embarassing fault. Turn up at an incident, jump out of car, engine running, slam door behind you and hear the central locking activate. Keys in, engine on etc etc etc.

Happened to her more than once apparently. Apart from that - fine.

andys120

A Sterling caravan traveling thru the Arizona desert, a couple of Sterling four doors followed by a Coupe and another sedan, they were probably doing hot weather testing of the Coupe which was never sold here but was in Britain.

lemko

I love that 1976 Buick Electra! Heck, if wifey didn't like it he could've given it to me!

fintail

Tinted glass?

I guess if one wants one of these, this is the one to have

Early crossover?

Interesting buy it now price

Lovely DS from the end of the model run

Click at your own risk

Fixer-upper

The 190SL to shame all others

texases

That can't be a real $110k bid on the 190SL. My shoes are brown after reading that bloated prose describing the car. :P

Mr_Shiftright

190SL -- what a load of gibberish. The car is not "original" at all. It apparently has new paint, rebuilt engine, rebuilt front end, differential, brakes--and it looks like the seats and interior have all been re-dyed. Nice car and all, but phew! what a cloud of gaseous prose to describe what is basically a Mercedes 180 grandpa sedan with a different body bolted to it. The bid, if real, would be the highest I have ever seen for one of these. I'd have closed the auction right then and there and collected the money.

Fiat Jolly -- oh well he must have fallen asleep in the dot.com era and forgot that Jolly prices aren't what they used to be. Nice bid from the chandelier at Barrett-Jackson.

Early Crossover -- looks like something you see at the airport. Hard sell.

Stutz Blackhawk -- good for a freak show type of collector. You'd always win "best of class".

Pierce Arrow -- looks like a pretty careless "restoration".

andre1969

Today I was out running errands, and saw a few old ones. I was out near my old condo, and drove by it for old times sake. While I was out there I saw an old man driving a 70's Corvette. Not sure of the year, but it had the smooth front and rear, with no chrome, so I'm guessing '74 or later. It was a really pale blue. Not that nice baby blue that's common on the big '75 GM convertibles, but more of a paler, sickly blue, like the color someone's face turns when you're choking them. That might've been a '77 color, as I recall seeing some special edition '77 Firebird in that hue.

Outside a body shop, I saw a '63-67 Corvette convertible. Also saw a black Ford pickup. Not sure of the year, but from that Sanford and Son era.

Also saw one of those W126 style Benzes, in a nice, dark blue. It was sitting on the grass in someone's front yard, with no tags, up in a housing development. Oddly, all of a sudden, I understood why some people complain about that. Now out where I live, which isn't a development and still pretty rural, a car sitting on the grass is almost an expected part of the landscaping. But up in a development, with tiny 1/4 acre lots, sidewalks, and paved driveways, it just doesn't look right! Even a Benz. :P

Oh, and yesterday I saw a '73 Impala or Caprice 4-door hardtop drive by. Burgundy with kind of an ivory vinyl roof. Good shape, except for a hit to the rear quarter.

lemko

"Change it, Butthead! Change it!"

That's what I thought when I saw that yellow LeSabre! Good God, it looks like Grandma's old car turned into a blingy monster truck!

Anybody brave and/or rich enough to tackle that 1958 Chrysler 300 project? I fear what the floorpan alone would look like after I tore out the rotted old carpet and cleared the cobwebs. That yellow looks weird. It can't be a stock color. Andre?

fintail

The nut down the street from me who has a ca. 67 Newport 2 door HT and a clean MB W126 among other cars appears to have acquired another beast - a red and white 76-78 Eldo. Does Andre have relatives out west? :P

andre1969

I do have relatives out that way, but they're in Long Beach, CA. My grandmother's brother lives out there. He had a Newport, too. It was a big, ugly beige 1971 or so model. Been so long since I saw it that I can't remember the body style. All I remember was thinking about what an old-people's car it seemed to be! It was immaculate, too. I remember my grandparents took me out there in 1982, and we rode in it. Somehow Grandmom managed to get a ring on her finger caught in the headliner and tore it, and was apologizing up the wazoo about it. Uncle Charles didn't seem to care, though.

I think that car gave way to a Dodge 600, and when Uncle Charles finally gave up driving, he had a Saturn S series, I think.

andre1969

I'm not sure, but that yellow might have been a stock color. When I was still riding the bus in high school, we would pass by a house that had a '57-58 300 parked under a carport, and it was a pale yellow. Eventually it got replaced by, of all things, a 2-tone white and yellow late 70's LeSabre Sport Coupe, the kind with the turbo.

Those wheels are off of something like a 74-78 New Yorker, though. I've also seen them on R-bodies. Same 4.5" bolt pattern. Heck, even my Intrepid uses that pattern. I think the Charger/Magnum/300C even use it.

fintail

I rode in this thing today...not a common car, and the owner uses it as a commuter sometimes, put about 10K miles on it this year:

imidazol97

500,000 mile car



Something old; something new.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah well let me inject him with truth serum and pull out his repair bills and we'll see about this.

They are good cars, though.

texases

I guess I'm a little less skeptical than you, Shifty. I would expect one car in a million to drive amazing miles with little trouble, just like there are a few lemons around. Doesn't mean most will do it...

Mr_Shiftright

This kind of thing is like my pesonal crusade I guess. I am a believer in the wise words of Carl Sagan:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

Seeing so many old cars as I do, you'd think I would have, in the course of 25 years, been able to absolutely verify claims of high mileage without "any major work", but I never have been able to do so with any certainty. I would never say it isn't possible.

BUT....

Either there are no records (multiple owners, no known past history), or obvious signs to the contrary (wrong engine # for the car, etc.) or its the original owner who brags a lot but has no real proof other than what he says.

The odometer does verify that the miles are real, but not that this impressive number was achieved without major investment.

In a sense, you can make any car you wish go 1/2 million miles. Just throw enough money at it and there you go. Nothing remarkable about that.

So...skeptical? You bet I am. But like any good skeptic, always willing to change his mind in the face of good evidence.

If Mr. So and So had a chronological repair record and if I could check engine numbers, we could come to some conclusion on the claims I think.

In other words, if he spent $60,000 to keep his $40,000 car going 1/2 million miles, what's the big deal other than his devotion?

lemmer

My Dad will talk about a Chevy truck he had for 150K miles with no problems, until I will remind him that he had the whole rear end replaced at less than 20K, went through brake rotors every 15K and numerous other issues. He had a Volvo that 'never needed any repairs' for 170K that received a new engine back when it was still under warranty. My Dad is an honest man; he just forgets about stuff over time. He seems much more likely to forget repairs under warranty regardless of how substantial they are, as they don't affect his wallet. I suspect a lot of people are like that.

fintail

Wow, that's pretty cool, especially as those 86-87 300SDLs are not known to be as reliable as their earlier counterparts. Those cars certainly helped to give MB a rep that allowed it to afford some quality problems later. The W126 are just great cars, the best of their time.

andre1969

He seems much more likely to forget repairs under warranty regardless of how substantial they are, as they don't affect his wallet. I suspect a lot of people are like that.

That's why I like to keep track of everything, and write it down, record it, save the receipts, etc, because I know I tend to forget things!

The two highest mileage cars I know of that I can actually vouch for are my old '86 Monte Carlo, which my Mom bought new and had about 192,000 miles on it when I got T-boned while driving it, and their 1999 Altima, which has about 245,000 miles on it.

The Monte was still on its original 305, transmission, and rear end. A/C still worked. I think it had the distributor replaced though, and some electronic stuff. Water pump, radiator, and those metal air tubes that force air into the exhaust manifold. Power antenna was broken, in the upright position. And I had to get the windshield wiper motor replaced when I had it.

Their Altima crapped its transmission at 35,000 miles, but was replaced under warranty, and the second one more than redeemed itself. Otherwise, I think my Mom and stepdad have only had to do maintenance type items on it.

As for me, I have a '68 Dart that had 253,000 miles on it when I bought it, and had around 338,000 when I finally quit driving it. I know the engine was rebuilt at 242K and the tranny and rear end replaced soon thereafter. The previous owner told me it had been the original drivetrain...but he wasn't the first owner and I couldn't prove it.

I also had a 1979 Newport that had about 230,000 miles on it when I bought it, and about 248,000 when I got rid of it. The transmission was shot. I have no way of knowing if the engine had ever been replaced, or the tranny rebuilt before I had to have it done. But the 318 was a good, rugged engine, as was the Torqueflite 998 tranny, so it's possible. Plus, I'd think a car like that would've been worthless enough that had the engine or tranny failed on it, it would've been junked long ago.

Mr_Shiftright

yeah I think actual real life for most cars is 175K-225K. After that, replacement of major components is necessary in most cases. Even modern engines get pretty tired at 250K or so but I could believe 300K for a well-cared for engine.

lemmer

I've got a couple of friends with Accords who were in the 'these cars last for 300K easy' camp' when they were at 150K miles. One guy is about to hit 200K and is in the 'this car is slowly bleeding me dry and I am afraid to take it on a trip' camp. The other guy is at 160K and he is ready to bail out soon. Both still run great, but parts wear out on a regular basis. Lucky for the owners, these cars are still easy to sell for decent money at high mileage.

danf5

I don't know about 500k miles, but I've had a couple of Hondas that have gone considerable distances. Shiftright, who doesn't understand the difference between anecdotal and 'eyewitness account,' denies their existence but they were real and I had 'em.

The latest is a 2004 Civic EX coupe, manual transmission, that I bought new in Jan '04. This morning its little odometer showed 201xxx. Maintenance/repairs so far:

On warranty: none

Routine, scheduled: fluids, filters, timing belt, water pump (done with the timing belt), plugs (ditto), all done at least as often as the owner's manual recommends

Routine, unscheduled: wiper blades, bulbs

Nonroutine, expected: brake disks (given the mileage, ...), tires. Currently on third set of tires, they're around half worn, will have to replace next fall. Sooner or later the rear brake linings will wear enough to need replacement.

Nonroutine, unexpected: windshield (stone thrown by a dump truck, not Honda's fault), thermostat (first one replaced in ~ 1.3 million miles in Hondas)

Current worries: the bulb in the cruise control switch that lights up when the cruise is enabled has burned out. The clutch linkage (mecanical, between pedal and master cylinder) needs to be lubricated. Front disks due for a cut or replacement soon. Oil consumption is up a little, depending on how the car is driven can be a little more than 1 qt/5k miles. Its cold out, we're on winter gas, fuel consumption is running around 35 mpg, a bit less than I want. And the windshield has a stone chip, may have to be replaced to pass state inspection next month. Can't blame this last on Honda, another dump truck did it.

Everything works but that one bulb. A/C has never been recharged, doesn't need it. Nickel and dime time hasn't arrived yet. If my previous Hondas are a guide, it will be a while before monthly maintenance costs rise to the level of car payments.

andre1969

One of my former managers used to have a 1992 or 1993 Civic sedan, a stripper model with a stick shift, that he got up to around 180-190,000 miles before it got junked. On one hand, that car's mileage was almost pure highway, so it theoretically had an easy life. I think he only had to replace the front brake pads once in that car's life, and the rear shoes, AFAIK, never had to be replaced!

On the other hand, he was bad about maintaining his cars. He'd let them run low on fluids, go too long without changing the oil and coolant, run the car pretty hard, etc. He hopped a curb with it once, something that new cars tend to not take with as much dignity as old cars with their beefier suspension components, higher height, taller tires, etc.

I think the engine was just about shot when he got rid of it, but I blame him more than I blame the car.

Now I do have some other friends, a married couple, who bought a 1994 Civic EX sedan, at my recommendation. It blew its first head gasket around 30-40,000 miles, then needed a/c work, and blew the second head gasket around 80-90K. Other than that, it was a nice car, and I swear that to this day, it was unreliable simply because I recommended it to them. :mad: Another one of our friends, who was on a real "Buy American" kick back then, gave them a bunch of flak for buying it and me for recommending it, so naturally he just wallowed in it when something broke on it. :sick:

It was enough of an experience that it sent them running and screaming back to GM, where they bought a Saturn S-series in 1998, that was pretty reliable. I haven't seen them in awhile, but I think they have a Corolla now. As for my buddy with the "buy American" kick? Well, in 1995 he bought a new Corolla, and the last time I saw him he was in a Maxima!

The latest is a 2004 Civic EX coupe, manual transmission, that I bought new in Jan '04. This morning its little odometer showed 201xxx. Maintenance/repairs so far:

Just out of curiosity, what kind of driving do you to, to put 200+K miles on a car in roughly 4 years? I used to deliver pizzas part time after work, and at my peak was probably averaging 50K+ miles per year. I had a 1986 Monte Carlo that I put 13,000 miles on in 3 short months, before it got totaled. It was my primary car, but I had others I drove occasionally...a '68 Dart and a '79 Newport, so my total mileage was higher than that.

I'm probably only doing about 5-6,000 miles per year nowadays, though.

lemmer

A) I have never seen any reasonably reliable account of a car that went 500K without major repairs (or without at least needing them).

My friend says his Accord needs absolutely nothing, and for his purposes, it doesn't. If I bought it, it would need a thorough rebuild of the suspension, a major tuneup, and a full brake rebuild. A running car with no obvious needs can be far different than a car that has all systems within manufacturer's specifications.

Mr_Shiftright

Anecdotal only means "not subjected to rigorous scientific methods". So eyewitness is anecdotal, but it's not "second-hand" anecdotal, rather first hand anecdotal.

I have no problem believing an engine can go 200K without an overhaul. I have a big problem believing one can go 500K.

Saw what appeared to be about a 1951 Studebaker pickup Christmas morning. That nice Tomato Red. Good looking old pickup. It would be a good candidate for modern drivetrain I think. Most of them only came with a flathead 6 and 3-speed column shifter.

imidazol97

Like this one? It's red (wheels are at least).

Mr_Shiftright

YEAH! Some Corvette power, automatic, AC, killer sound system, leather seats, rack and pinion steering, flowmasters, radials. Yum!

kyfdx

Thats what I saw last week.... In sort of a dark green... very cool..

imidazol97

There are a few classic car folks in this area who show up with a pickup they're restored from those early years. It's really nice to see one brought back to life, especially if it's purely stock. For me nothing is worse than something that's been customized and barely shows its original qualities.

Mr_Shiftright

Well old pickups are usually so beat up that customizing them becomes very tempting. Also it's one of the very few old vehicles where they are worth MORE as customized and modernized vehicles than they are stock.

The ugly truth is that 50s pickups are really a chore to drive and aren't practical for modern roads. So unless you want to pump $35K into a truck worth $20K when you are done, and unpleasant to drive as well, you're only choice is to go modern.

I do agree though that things like "wire wheels" look awful on an old pickup. Customization should be tasteful and the truck's exterior could be left alone.

imidazol97

I didn't realize the value of a customized version might be more profitable than the purely stock that I myself would love to touch and sit in. That's interesting.

Mr_Shiftright

Purely stock early 50s pickups are pretty drab affairs. Some have bare metal floors or rubber mats and a cardboard headliner. I like them in the way I like tractors or old locomotives. I wouldn't call them beautiful or valuable or even worthy of restoration in most cases (unless they are rare) but they have a kind of rugged honesty I like.

Old customized pickups are HOT HOT HOT right now.

danf5

"Just out of curiosity, what kind of driving do you to, to put 200+K miles on a car in roughly 4 years? "

Office is 65 miles from home. We make at least one trip a year from NJ to TX, a couple of trips a year to FL, and some years to to the west coast. Last big trip was an excursion to CA in September. What with one thing and another, 7k miles from home to home.

danf5

"Anecdotal only means "not subjected to rigorous scientific methods". So eyewitness is anecdotal, but it's not "second-hand" anecdotal, rather first hand anecdotal.

I have no problem believing an engine can go 200K without an overhaul. I have a big problem believing one can go 500K."

There no science to keeping an accurate log of expenses. But there is rigor, and I'm rigorous. So are my reports on my 415k mile '91 Integra.

Depends on the engine. Mack warranties their engines for 500k miles. Based on my experience (past history) + projection of trends, a four cylinder Honda motor will probably need new valve guide seals and rings around 300 k miles.

Note that the engine's longevity isn't the same as the car's. The cost of replacing ancillaries can make keeping a high mileage car uneconomic. So can the cost of repairing rust. That last is why I sold my first Civic, an '84 1500S, at 288k miles and why I sold that '91 Integra at 415k miles. Didn't sell the '91's replacement, a '98 GSR. It was stolen at 180k miles. No signs of rust on the '98 when it vanished, so far none on the '04.

Mr_Shiftright

Well yes there's really little point to trying to keep a car running for 300K, since it will probably fall apart before that, good engine or no.

And yes, I think you see my point that most engines are very tired at 250K--300K...I mean, you can drive the smoking, clanking old thing but it really needs an overhaul by then.

You can't compare a Mack truck engine to a car engine. They are build to a size and strength unheard of in a car, and cost more than most entire automobiles do.

bumpy

240SX convertible, another case where the fixed roof is worth more than the soft top.

fintail

Now this is a Buick

Not many of these around

Fins fins fins

See above

Lots of bidding here

Not just one RHD W111 cabrio

But two

British style

Strange and somewhat heavy handed

Resto-rod

Maybe Shifty would drive this

Interesting behemoth, don't know about that color

Interesting car, but don't claim you have a Ferrari if you can't spell it

Mr_Shiftright

Guanci --- geez, that Corvette motor looks awful in that car. Agricultural at best. They could have at least dressed it up. And the dashboard ay, ay, ay.....where did all the money go? Cocaine?

Jaguar Mark VII resto rod -- oh, my, I hope they did something to the "mom's sofa" suspension on that car before packing it with HP. Big clumsy Blivets that they are.

Wankel Spider -- I'd drive it if it were a) a coupe and b) had a mazda rotary engine in it.

andys120

'65 Riviera GS- sweet car, a favorite of mine but haven't they heard there's a recession on? Too much $$$$.

'65 Merc 220SEb- a W111 for $25K? Not bad. It's the same car I posted in "Mystery Car Pix".

'53 Sunbeam-Talbot, I had a Dinky Toy of one back in '53, it was my favorite of the dozen Dinkys I had.

'79 Guanci- I like it more than Shifty does but then I don't know anything about 'em.

toomanyfumes

Great crop of cars. I really like the '59 Lancer. Over the top styling. The '65 Rivi sold for $47,500!

texases

$60+k for a non-Edsel looking Edsel? Doesn't that seem high?

Mr_Shiftright

That's about right for a multiple best of show winner. It probably cost twice that to build it.

The Grungy has a very attractive body but the interior and engine details are just awful.

imidazol97

Look at the bidding pattern. One guy raised his own bid by $10,000 or more IIRC. Strange. Could it be an insider bidding to raise the bids?

andre1969

$60+k for a non-Edsel looking Edsel? Doesn't that seem high?

Seems awfully high for me. And yeah, if I was gonna get an Edsel, I'd want one that LOOKED like an Edsel! If I wanted something that looked like a '59 Pontiac, I'd get a '59 Pontiac!

I like that '58 DeSoto and the '59 Dodge. Normally I have a preference for DeSotos, but that Dodge is sweet! There's a guy about a mile from me that has a '59 2-door hardtop with the D-500 setup. 2-tone pink/lavender! Can't remember what series it is, though. I think it's just a Royal, but I guess it could be a Custom Royal. That thing's way out of my range, though.

Shifty, what would a reasonable price be for that '58 DeSoto Firedome? Dodge is flashier, but I do like that DeSoto. The color's a little offbeat, with just the spear contrasting and not the roof, and I guess some would find that minty green a bit odd, but I sort of like it. The seat pattern doesn't look stock, but at least it looks like a more reasonable attempt to look period correct than some of the reupholstery attempts I've seen.

fintail

Andre's distant relative down the street from me took all of his cars out for exercise today, so I saw his Eldo and the big old Chrysler within a few minutes of each other. The Eldo needs shocks badly...he stopped, and I could see it bounce.

I also saw a Fiat X1/9 in the rain...that can't make them last longer.