I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

grahampaige

34 is one of the high points for Graham (alongside the sharknose and the hollywood). I have to say the three window coupe is pretty and very rare for a Graham, would be a very nice unit, but even I think the price is high especially for a non supercharged car (it was a delete option)

andre1969

I like that '76 Electra coupe. Wouldn't mind having one of those, but that "Buy it Now" is ridiculous! I wonder if I emailed the seller, told him I had $4000 cash, if he'd jump at the chance?

That '78 Grand Prix looks pretty well-preserved, but damn if the GP didn't get the short end of the stick when it came to engines! The base engine was the Buick 231 and the top choice was the Pontiac 301...neither was considered symbolic with quality at the time. The LeMans got stuck with the Buick 231 as well, but at least the V-8 option was the more durable Chevy 305.

Now that I think about it, didn't Regals only come with a 231 or 301, as well? While Centurys could have a 196 (shrunken 231), 231, or 305? I guess the Cutlass Supreme and the Malibu were the best choices back then. Malibus had a 200 Chevy V-6 (229 for 1980 onward), and choice of 267 or 305 V-8's, and an occasional 350. Cutlasses started off with that Buick 231 V-6, but offered an Olds 260 V-8, Chevy 305, or Olds 350.

I actually like the interior color of that Fleetwood Talisman. Normally I don't go for browns, but that honey-caramel color sort of works, IMO. I don't like that exterior yellow, though. I guess the Talisman must hold some kind of honor, for being one of the largest 4-passenger cars out there!

Mr_Shiftright

Yes I can appreciate the styling as well, but I agree, for a non-SC car in this condition I fear the buyer will be buried for life. Perhaps they have plans to enter it in some "preservation class" car shows? Even so, it wouldn't win anything in preservation class as it is too rough even for that.

The general rule is that if a car is 75% good and 25% bad leave it alone, and if the reverse, restore it. This car is obviously only 25% good, so it begs for restoration, but the bid does not justify the cost of restoration. Had he gotten it for free, he might come out sorts-kinda okay, but now he's $10K over budget already.

grahampaige

[Quote\]The general rule is that if a car is 75% good and 25% bad leave it alone, and if the reverse, restore it. This car is obviously only 25% good, so it begs for restoration, but the bid does not justify the cost of restoration. Had he gotten it for free, he might come out sorts-kinda okay, but now he's $10K over budget already.[/quote]

Man you should see the crap we started with then Our first restoration had earthworms in the woodwork (Yes earthworms not woodworm).

You are correct you will never make money on it, but since when has car restoration been about making money

Mr_Shiftright

Well at least they'll be buried in a car that might be worth preserving, even if they lose tens of thousands of dollars on it; the hard ones to watch are people who restore cars that aren't worth restoring either in terms of condition or in the eyes of history or in terms of rarity.

SPOTTED: MGB GT with "for sale by owner"--closer inspection revealed an overdrive (good thing) and sheets of bondo flaking off like the ice cliffs of the Arctic (not good)

grahampaige

{quote\]SPOTTED: MGB GT with "for sale by owner"--closer inspection revealed an overdrive (good thing) and sheets of bondo flaking off like the ice cliffs of the Arctic (not good)[/quote]

Yeah, with MGs body condition is important, mechanically they are bulletproof, and cheap to fix but if the body is bad you are looking at big $$$ to get right

fintail

Preservation class...I like this idea which seems to be gaining strength, as it makes me feel better about not touching the fintail. As restorations become so expensive, I bet the preservation ideal will become more popular.

bumpy

IIRC, the Sera was basically a rebodied Toyota Starlet, which we knew as the Tercel.

This part caught my eye: "CANADA IS GOING TO THE 25 YEAR RULE AS PER USA - SO IN 2008 WE WILL BE ALLOWED TO BRING CARS THAT ARE ONLY 25+ YEARS OLD!"

bumpy

A dark green W124 badged as "300E 2.8".

fintail

Ah from the years of the new engines.

Shame about Canada changing its once-progressive regulations.

bhill2

When I contemplate that Peugeot 504 wagon diesel 'automatique', I wonder if the 0-60 would be most appropriately measured with a stopwatch or an hourglass.

Mr_Shiftright

tut, tut...it's a BIG 4 cylinder. 2.4 liters I think. They move out okay. Very torquey.

andys120

From The Bourne Identity (2002):

fintail

Renault Laguna...not exactly a classic :P

bhill2

Good heavens; it's been a long time since I've been tut, tut'ed. I stand corrected (well, actually I sit corrected). I was flashing on a time when I owned a '81 diesel Rabbit and saw one with an automatic sitting in the showroom. I remember that simply contemplating driving it was an almost religious experience. But then, the Rabbit had a 1.6 liter engine (52 ground-pawing horsepower). Just for general interest, would you buy that Peugeot if you had the need for such a vehicle?

Mr_Shiftright

well that was a very friendly tut-tut. I am also trained in combat TUT-TUT, a deadly martial art originally created by librarians.

Yeah, I would buy a Peugeot like that as a kick-around car, but ONLY because I know a shop that works on them.

I actually owned a 504 diesel 4-door sedan. When I bought it, it carried ARUBA license plates, an old registration from Indonesia, and had a bullet hole in the hood.

Don't ask me :confuse:

It was a good car, very dependable and up to 60-70 miles per hour, it had decent power.

You're right, the VW rabbit diesel was pathetic on power. 0-60 with an egg timer.

texases

The 504 diesels are all over the place in Buenos Aires (taxis) and they're plenty peppy there for the city traffic. But you'd need a confirmed Pug mechanic. I can't imagine finding one here in Dallas, I don't think I've seen a Peugeot here in 12 years.

lemmer

I once owned an '84 Jetta diesel for about a week. It actually felt really torquey in a parking lot. Anything over about 25 mph was not its forte.

british_rover

well that was a very friendly tut-tut. I am also trained in combat TUT-TUT, a deadly martial art originally created by librarians.


My wife is a librarian, at an inner city library no less, and she has a black belt in TUT-TUT. The sales and service stories you here on here are nothing compared to the stories I hear from her about that library.

kyfdx

Spotted one of these today.. Aero-kit and emblems.. not sure what else.. Didn't look lowered, or anything... Oh yeah... 4-door sedan..

Mr_Shiftright

GEEZ....Roush is slapping his name on everything these days. When's the Roush Prius coming out?

oregonboy

Well, it's not a Prius...

20" Roush Rims, Running Boards, Towing Package :P james

bhill2

Oh, yeah. When I was a kid the local library had a librarian who, I think, taught TUT-TUT. What was worse was that my parents liked her, so I got away with exactly nothing. The local library was in the same building as the City Hall and she saw me going in to pay my first ticket. OK, I'm going to stop remembering now.

I can't believe that I am even asking this, but since you live in Sausalito and I live in Santa Rosa, do you know any nearby Peugeot mechanics just in case?

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, Jim Askim of Askim's Auto Service in San Rafael, the last surviving, honest, competent Peugeot mechanic in northern California. Just saw him today. Funny you'd bring this up. He says Peugeots are fast disappearing. He's also a Subaru specialist (it figures).

toomanyfumes

VW Rabbit GTI about an '83 or '84? Nice shape, must be stored winters. Speaking of winter storage, Seeing a lot of Ford Tempos again. I think a lot of people use them for a cheap winter car.

andys120

I think a lot of people use them for a cheap winter car. AKA "beaters". I haven't seen a Tempo in years.

andre1969

back in the late 90's/early 00's, when I used to deliver pizzas, there was this one house in my delivery area that had THREE Tempos in their driveway. Guess these people either didn't learn from their mistakes, or they got lucky and found the good ones.

I went down that street fairly recently, and noticed the Tempos were gone. In their place was a solitary mid 80's Cutlass Supreme sedan, gray metallic, with bricks wedged under the wheels.

My stepdad had a 1984 Tempo GL coupe. I always thought it was a crappy little car, but it did get them to 160,000 miles with no engine or tranny failures. Can't say that about the 1991 Stanza that replaced it, nor their current 1999 Altima. Well, okay, the Altima's first tranny crapped out at 35,000 miles, but the car now has around 250,000 on it, so I guess it's redeemed itself. :shades:

lemko

My uncle bought a new 1988 Tempo as a second car and messed up the FWD transaxle hitting a curb. Now, I've hit curbs plenty of times with my FWD Cadillacs. Was the Tempo that fragile or did unc really whallop that curb?

michaellno

When I met my wife in 1996, she was driving an '86 Tempo GL that she and her first husband had bought new. She told me it was either that or a Honda Prelude.

Go figure!

Gold, tan interior, 5-speed, pretty well loaded, plus they had added an aftermarket sunroof. 96K on the clock when I met her, and as she had gotten divorced, she wasn't able to maintain it as well as she wanted.

About 6 months after we met, she took a job that increased her commute from about 1 mile to about 20 miles. The Tempo got sold to her sister for $400, and we leased her a '97 Ford Escort ... again, a 5-speed and about the same size as the Tempo.

kyfdx

I swear... At least 90% of Tempos were purchased because, "Daddy said it would be a good car for a young woman."

Without that, they wouldn't have sold more than six of them...

fintail

In 1985 my mom bought a Tempo GLX as a long distance commuter (I don't understand the logic, I think she must have got a really good deal on it as it was model year end clearance). It was loaded for a Tempo - power everything, sport wheels, deluxe velour interior. She ran it up to about 100K fairly quickly and then we used it as a spare car. I used it for a brief time in high school, my siblings also used it for a teenager car, and a cousin used it as well. Atr about 130K a computer failed that required it to be towed, and the same computer puked a couple times again, but the car was able to be limped along. At about 160K the steering box was leaking, so that was replaced, and the valve cover gasket was also leaking oil onto the manifold, which produced cool smoke from the engine. She finally got rid of it in 1999, at about 190K, for $600 - sold it to a guy who worked for a tire shop, who rebuilt the front end, put wheels on it, and gave it to his kid. I actually saw the thing on the road a few years ago. The engine and transmission were never touched...in fact I don't think it even had a tranny service in its last 100K miles.

kyfdx

190K in a Tempo... That is impressive... and depressing..

fintail

I'm glad not many of those miles were driven by me. It was such a slow car, and the mileage was nothing special either.

andre1969

I drove my stepdad's Tempo ONCE. That was enough. I forget why, now, but one day during the summer of '88, we swapped cars, my '80 Malibu for his Tempo. Maybe he just wanted to drive a superior car for the day? :P

I swear, that thing was dog-slow. My Malibu felt like a musclecar in comparison! My 1985 Consumer Guide tested a Topaz and got 0-60 in something like 15.9 seconds. I don't think my stepdad's was THAT fast, though. :sick:

fintail

I think that 15.9 might be optimistic, but there were two engines (along with the diesel) in early Tempos I believe, a FI unit and a carb unit. Ours had the FI, which might be part of why it lasted so long, and that might have added a little power. I am sure my fintail could easily outrun it too. I remember the speedo only went to 80mph, and at 80 a Tempo is like most cars at 150.

andre1969

I did a little digging, and it looks like the Tempo/Topaz only offered a 2.3 2-bbl for 1984, with 84 hp. For 1985, they switched it to fuel injection (TBI) and it picked up 2 hp. Also in 1985, they started offering a stronger FI 2.3 with 100 hp.

The Topaz that Consumer Guide tested in 1985 was just the 86 hp version. So along with that 2 extra hp, I'm sure the '85 was more responsive across the board than my stepdad's '84. So I guess it's quite possible that while the '85 would do 0-60 in 15.9, the '84 could have been notably slower!

Just for comparison, my 1985 CG has a test of a Plymouth Reliant with the 2.2/3-speed automatic. 0-60 in a more respectable 13.5. They also tested a Cavalier, but didn't print a 0-60 time. They gave it the same ranking for acceleration though, a "3", so it was most likely similar. They gave the Topaz a "2"!

While both of those 0-60 times seem pretty lame today they're still a pretty big departure from each other. Back in 1985, the majority of cars still couldn't break the 10 second barrier, unless you looked to stuff like the V-8 Camaro/Mustang, a Chrysler turbo with a 5-speed, or expensive European cars that CG usually didn't test. Basically back then, to rate a "5" in acceleration, 0-60 had to come in at under 9.5 seconds. At least, a Daytona Turbo Z that did it in 9.4 got a "5", while a Cressida that did 9.6 got a "4".

Nowadays, 0-60 in 9.5 is considered pretty lame. I doubt if there are even very many cars out there that are slower than that. The 2.7 versions of the Magnum/Charger/300 are around 11 seconds I think. And I remember seeing a test of an Excursion with the base 5.4 that put it at 14 seconds! But I doubt if it gets any worse than that these days.

toomanyfumes

The fuel injection helped those engines quite a bit, I think. When I met my wife, she was driving a '84 Mustang with the 2.3 (carburated) and an automatic. It was dog-slow. After that she had an '88 Mustang with the injected 2.3 and a 5-speed. It felt a lot quicker, but part of that was probably the stick. Still not a fast car, but at least it felt adequate around town. Rough motor when you revved it, too.

Mr_Shiftright

Spotted a baby blue Fiat 124 coupe (rare) with a tan vinyl top! Looked kinda nice. Might leave a note on the windshield :P

imidazol97

A Plymouth from 57-58 era. White with gold stripe between moldings.

1958 Fury II

fintail

I wonder which engine ours had. It was OK in town, but I remember it was just awful in highway passing situations, 50-70 could be timed on a calendar. Another thing I remember about this car is the only time it sounded good was when the muffler rusted away and the car became loud. Well, it sounded good to my teenage ears anyway. If anything...those cars prove that technology really has advanced - today a Focus sedan could beat the hell out of any Tempo in every way.

fintail

That's a Christine

fintail

A bigger and stupider version of big and stupid

Pricey

Needs some TLC

Weird

Big red

Furniture for Andre

Luxury model

I don't know what that provenance really brings

Early hardtop

I've never seen one of these before

Rocket

A little steep

imidazol97

>That's a Christine.

What does Christine mean? I am afraid to ask because I probably should already know.

The car I saw didn't have a lowered rear or sunken rear springs. I was amazed at how big those tailfins were when viewed from the side. Things have changed.

imidazol97

I'd forgotten about the wagon version of the Pacer. I remember the Pacer. It was supposed to have a very smooth ride because the front subframe was isolated from the rest of the body. I recall the distributors popped their cap. Sometimes leaving the car still running and sometimes not. So owners learned to replace the cap if it exploded the gas vapors during starting.

Somewhere in boxes I have 1 or more copies of the sales brochure from the showroom for those things. Wonder how much they're worth?

fintail

Christine is a film based on the Stephen King's book about a demonic1958 Plymouth

I bet a Pacer brochure is worth about $20. I remember riding in one when I was a kid...I think it had a plaid interior, pretty pukey.

andys120

I could really go for that '49 Olds 88, except for that awful Baby Blue color. My uncle had a black one, looked very cool.

bhill2

One small detail about the post with the picture of the Plymouth referred to as a 'Christine; the pictured car is a 1957. It is a Fury, however, like Christine.

andre1969

That '74 Grand Ville looks like it's in nice shape, but IMO it shows just how Pontiac was starting to lose it in the 70's. They went from being a sporty step above Chevrolet to suddenly trying to be all things to all people, going after Chevy on the low end and Olds/Buick at the top. And Pontiac just didn't belong in Electra/98 territory. Some of that interior trim, like the big brown slabs of plood with the "engraving" on the door panels, are just downright tacky, while some other components, like the seat fabrics and armrests on the door panels, just don't seem befitting of a car in this league.

That DeSoto couch is cool. Shame that the car it came from seemed to have gotten flattened, but at least they were able to salvage part of it. Heck, I need a new couch, too!

That Coupe DeVille convertible really shows how downsizing and convertibles didn't mix. I've seen pictures of those things, but never saw one in person, or for sale. It's funny though; I've seen aftermarket chops of Cutlass Cieras and Centurys that came off fairly decent. You'd think it would be easier to do it to a bigger car, but in this case it just doesn't seem to work.

Mr_Shiftright

2002 Escalade -- building one of these should be against the law, like making pipe bombs in your basement. What drives men to such madness?

Stutz V16 -- probably worth it, especially with a professionally rebuilt engine. The seller has a good reputation in classic car world.

Edsel Wagon --- very rare and does anyone care? We'll see. Bidding is tepid so far.

79 Pacer Wagon -- nasty looking thing. Bidding is furious and up to $2,200. Can we break a record and bust through to a dizzying $3K?

1978 Cadillac Chop Job -- $19K Buy It Now? Surely they jest. Current bid is more than generous at $7K

1974 Pontiac Grandville, super low miles ---- who cares? It's just an old used car.

Pacer Provenance --- if the movie car had the star sitting in it and driving it in the movie, that might count for something (Like the Buick in "Rain Man")---but this "provenance" is pretty airy and IMO means nothing for value. Apparently the world agrees with me, as the car is bid to book.

Olds Rocket 88 -- from the looks of the engine and the lack of details in the description, this car definitely warrants a careful inspection for frame rust, for which they are notorious.Kinda neat looking.

fintail

There's a Ciera convertible around here that pulls it off marginally well.

What I hate about those conversions is how they usually cut the top right after the A-pillar bends in towards the roof - it makes it look like a chop job instead of a 'natural' convertible. The laughable way the top folds down looks like hell, too.