I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

Yep, those Tatra 77 and 87s had some odd handling characteristics with the rear mounted V8s, and the Germans who had likely never driven a more powerful car than a conventional 6cyl Mercedes didn't know how to handle it. Those prewar Tatras are as interesting as any car ever built, and are very cool with their Buck Rogers styling - especially a 77 with a rear fin. Something I'd have in my stable if I won a big lottery. The postwar cars are cool too, and have a real cult following...one enterprise the Soviets didn't completely ruin.

Rebuilding a Citroen suspension can't be too hard, right? :P

Mr_Shiftright

No I often rebuild Citroen hyrdaulic-pneumatic suspensions while eating breakfast, and then recharge the pressurized gas-filled spheres in my garage. Takes only a minute. :P

stickguy

Well, if I really wanted a hideous gold T/A with a slushbox, that looks like the one to get! Amazing looking condition for a 30 YO car, if it really is all original as claimed.

stickguy

On the NJ Turnpike, moving at the speed of traffic! Something I haven't seen in years.

A VW Fox. 2 door. Actually looked pretty nice. I thought all of these had decmposed back into the earth years ago.

michaellno

I thought all of these had decmposed back into the earth years ago.

Nope.

I just saw one a week or two ago here in Colorado.

I really liked these when they first came out, especially the 2-door wagon.

lemko

...spotted a gray VW Quantum! It's been a while since I've seen one of those.

stickguy

I drove one when they first came out (89ish?). What a piece of crap for a new car.

The only thing I ever drove that was worse was the new strippo Hyundai Excel that my grandmother bought when they first came out.

Mr_Shiftright

4 Priuses on one block. I hope this isn't the future. At least not in this FORM.

andre1969

I saw two Priuses when I had to go out to the parking lot a few minutes ago. They're all over the place here. But then, I work for NASA, with lots of people that like techno-geeky things like that.

VW Fox...I knew someone who had one, and locked his keys in the car. They might have been a piece of junk otherwise, but this sucker had some stiff, solid doors and window frames. I've broken into an '89 Gran Fury and an '85 LeSabre using a coathanger. Even with the window frames, I could bend them back just enough to slip the coathanger through and pull up the lock plunger. Not so with the Fox, though. I think my friend ended up having to call the auto club to break in to it!

**edit. Just wanted to clarify that it was MY Gran Fury and LeSabre I broke into. Don't want youse guys to think I go breaking into random cars just for the fun of it! :P

lemko

...spotted on my way home from work last night: light yellow 1975 Dodge Charger in good condition and a maroon 1974 Chevrolet Chevelle in fair condition.

andre1969

yesterday in the parking lot at work when I left for the day. A blue one and an older, black, first-gen model. Oh, and I also spotted a VW Fox! 4-door, in that faded rental-car orange that they used to try to pass off as "red" in those days. Also saw a green 1985 or earlier Olds Cutlass Supreme sedan. Rear quarter panels were rusting out horribly, but no rust otherwise. Paint was a bit faded on the hood, roof, and trunk, in the fashion the metallics were famous for back then. It was a base model, with crank windows, and it had Chevy copcar dog-dish hubcaps on it.

Other than those few, nothing else of interest to note. Oh, also spotted a '79 5th Ave in the parking lot, but that was mine, so I guess that doesn't count.

lemko

Must've been a really neglected Cutlass Supreme for I haven't seen many cars of that vintage with rusted-out quarter panels no matter how beat they were.

andre1969

Yeah, I'm guessing that it must've gotten water inside the trunk somehow. Perhaps the rear window started leaking, or the trunk seal, or something. Actually, it wasn't rusted through to the point that there were any holes, but the paint was totally flaked off from the bottom edge to about 6 or 7 inches up, and what was exposed was total rust. And not that scaly stuff, like what you get on a shovel if you leave it out in the rain, but this looked like you could poke your fingers through it really easily.

Those downsized GM midsizers were pretty good when it came to rust resistance, but age eventually will take its toll. I remember my '80 Malibu coupe showed its first sign of rust in the rear quarter panel when it was about 10 years old. A little blemish poked through the paint in the left rear quarter. Still, even that was much-improved over what had come before. I remember my grandparents' '72 Impala was really eaten up by the time it was 10 years old, which was when they got rid of it. Oddly though, the Impala's forest green metallic paint held its shine better than the Malibu's light blue metallic. While horribly rusted, the Impala was still nice and shiny right up to the end. In contrast, the Malibu was only 7 years old when I got it, and the hood was already horribly faded. The trunk and roof were starting to fade, and by the time it was 10 years old, which was when I got rid of it, the horizontal surfaces were faded to the point that there was no reflection at all in them.

lemko

Shoot, the body on my Dad's 1972 Ford LTD was practically disintegrated by the time he got rid of it. Full-size Fords were horrible rusters from 1971-76. Somehow the virtually identical 1977-78 bodies escaped the same fate. Still, even they weren't that hot. How were Mopar bodies per rust during this time?

The 1971-76 GM full-size bodies were pretty susceptible to rust compared to what came before, though not nearly as bad as Ford. The downsized 1977-era B and C bodies were highly rust-resistant. I wonder what accounts for this? Better metallurgy, bettter rust protection, better body design, or maybe a combination of all three. Seems severe rusting problems disappeared from domestics within the 1977-80 timeframe.

My 1988 Buick Park Avenue shows absolutely no rust after 20 years.

bumpy

I vaguely recall reading that the domestics used some really junky steel for body parts in the early '70s.

There are several rusty GMs of that Park Avenue variety around here, usually where the paint on the roof faded away to nothing and the owners didn't or couldn't afford to repaint them in time.

lemko

There are several rusty GMs of that Park Avenue variety around here, usually where the paint on the roof faded away to nothing and the owners didn't or couldn't afford to repaint them in time.

Yeah, but that's just surface rust versus the deadly cancerous rust from the inside out that affected early '70s cars. Believe me, the faded paint is a concern but I don't want to (but probably will) get it addressed before it gets to that point.

andre1969

I don't think the big Mopars were too bad for the era when it came to holding up against rust. Probably somewhere between GM and Ford, I guess. The problem, however, is that they were unitized, which meant that if they started rusting in the right place, body integrity would be compromised much more quickly than with a body-on-frame type car. But then on the plus side, I think Mopars used thicker sheetmetal back then, which might have offset the disadvantages of unit-bodies.

With the '74-78 Mopars, it's really hard to judge how well they held up. They weren't all that popular, so not many examples survived. The Gran Fury/Royal Monaco were sold mainly to police, taxi, and other fleet buyers, and tended to get used up and discarded pretty quickly. The Newport and New Yorker were comparatively popular, though. However, none of these cars sold in anywhere near the quantity of their GM and Ford competition. It seems like New Yorkers especially are still somewhat common, probably because they were initially bought by older people with money, who held onto them and took good care of them.

Now with the '69-73 Mopars, I've heard that the first-year models were pretty poorly built, but I think they improved them in later years. And with the 1979-81 R-body full-sized models, they were poorly assembled in the first year, but quality on the 1980-81 models supposedly improved. Only thing is, it's hard to find an '80-81 because sales dropped off sharply. I think Chrysler built about 77K Newports, 55K New Yorkers, and 33K St. Regises in 1979. For 1980, I think it was something like 15K Newports, 13K New Yorkers, 17K St. Regises, and 18K Gran Furys. For 1981 the totals were even lower.

The last new domestic design I can think of that was a serious ruster was the 1980 Cordoba/Mirada. These things were pretty when new, but seemed to fall apart really quickly. They weren't a truly all-new design, being based on the Diplomat/LeBaron, which in turn was based on the Aspen/Volare. Oddly though, the Aspen/Volare shook off most of their rust/body issues after mid 1977, and the Diplomat/LeBaron seemed pretty solid from the get-go (also mid-1977). But then the Cordoba/Mirada just came out junky. One big factor was probably that Chrysler was just about bankrupt by that time, and was pinning the hopes of their survival on the upcoming K-car. As a result, the Cordoba/Mirada came out as the automotive equivalent of still-born, and were probably kept around just long enough to use up all the unique trim and body parts.

andre1969

Yeah, but that's just surface rust versus the deadly cancerous rust from the inside out that affected early '70s cars. Believe me, the faded paint is a concern but I don't want to (but probably will) get it addressed before it gets to that point.

If it's any consolation, Lemko, that type of surface rust usually takes years before it does any serious damage. Now the rust that appears from the inside out, well by the time you see it blossoming through the paint, it's usually too late. But the hood, trunk, and roof, when they peel down to the bare metal, usually just get a very thin scale on them and then that's it. I'm guessing it's because those areas are more exposed to the air and will dry out quicker, whereas places like rear quarter panels, rockers, the lower parts of the fenders and doors, insides of bumpers, etc, tend to hold moisture and let debris and gunk accumulate, which in turn only helps hold MORE moisture.

My pickup truck has a few places on the bed surface where it's been scraped down to bare metal, but it just won't rust. It was that way when I got it 5 1/2 years ago, and it hasn't gotten any worse. Now it has some REAL rust issues in the lower part of the passenger side door, where the rocker joins the back of the cab, etc. But that was the inside-out type of rust.

imidazol97

Let me steel in here and comment to help galvanize opinion. It seems to me they changed the alloy of the steel they used in the 70s, maybe the middle. They used one that was prone to rust as quickly when rust did start due to paint penetration. And I believe that some companies started treating the lower parts of doors and panels with some coating, maybe applied electrolytically, to prevent/retard corrosion. That may have been a zinc-based coating.

Someone surely knows the steps that happened here. I seem to recall reading that Armco Steel in Middletown (Ohio) (now AK Steel with some other names in between) was a leader in changing the alloy formula for the steel and supplying the product back then.

]

andre1969

that probably helped out with rust resistance was the elimination of some of the more rust-prone body styles, such as hardtops and convertibles. Also, it seems like many of the downsized cars of the late 70's eliminated some of the places where mud, gunk, and moisture could accumulate. I remember the '74-78 big Mopars, as well as the '71-76 Big Oldsmobiles and '73-77 Cutlasses had lower bodies with, for lack of a better word, "skegs", that just seemed to invite the collection of mud and dirt.

In later years, they also started designing better drainage systems, to disperse the water that would get down into the fresh air intakes. They also started designing wheel wells a bit better, so that they didn't have those ridges inside that would collect mud.

andre1969

on the way home from work, I spotted a '76-77 Cutlass sedan. It was the style with the quad rectangular headlights and the angled-back grille. White, dirty, looked a little dinged up. But it appeared to be rust-free, at a quick glance at least. Handsome looking beast. I can see why the Cutlass was so popular back then, although it was the coupe that generated most of the sales.

lemko

I remember those 1976-77 Cutlasses. Seemed everybody and his brother had one. Oldsmobile built 1,000,000+ 1977 model-year cars mostly on the strength of the Cutlass. Funny how fortune changed for Olds in such a short time.

kyfdx

But, on the way to work today... '95-'96 BMW M3, in yellow.. and an early 21st Century Audi S4 in silver...

Both driving like a bat out of hell... you know, living up to the bad reputation those drivers have?

I was very jealous..

texases

Same thing happened to me yesterday morning, a modded Mustang GT rips by, with a BMW M roadster right on his tail. The M then turns into the school parking lot! Driven by a kid!! Man, talk about somebody's disposable income...

fintail

There's an early S4 that lives somewhere near me, as I see it almost every day. It is heavily modded, and IMO it sounds like hell, very farty, made worse by the guy driving too fast in what sounds like a low gear. It's odd how some of the Civic tuner set has gone to German cars. I don't see so many messed with 3ers, but I do see pimped out C-class now and then.

Mr_Shiftright

Take heart. It'll be totaled in a few weeks. :P

texases

Yeah, seems about the same as giving a drunk a loaded .357... :sick:

fintail

That reminds me of this:

Highschooler gets an E55

lemko

Geeze, the body damage is bad enough, but the really scary part is the fluid all over the ground! The bodyshop estimate alone might pay for a new Honda Fit.

kyfdx

No need for an estimate.... that car is totaled..

fintail

That's actually right, that point of impact apparently damaged the engine block to the point where the car was a writeoff. An E55 rebuild could run like 15K, and you can get very nice early cars for not much more than that.

lemmer

Reminds me of the recent Edmunds article about the kid in a new M5 killing himself and several of his buddies.

I was really lucky I never got hurt in my 73 hp VW Scirocco. I don't know what these parents are thinking.

fintail

Today merging onto the highway I got behind a whale of a Caprice 2 door HT. I suppose I could look up the year, but I am lazy. I will guess 1973. It had 4 tail lights and the trunk with the slight hump in the middle. It looked to be in fantastic condition, driven by a pudgy bald guy who somehow to me looked like he was from the 70s. I got behind thing on an on-ramp, expecting him to punch the 454 in the thing (best case scenario I know) and take off...but I was surprised. He dawdled onto the ramp and didn't hit 20mph, maybe getting to 35 by the time he hit the freeway. I was thinking it could be a mechanical issue, but there was none of the telltale black smoke of a carb issue, nor did he seem concerned at all. He just coasted out there.

No ebay circus tomorrow, I'll be setting up a new computer.

imidazol97

Is the Chev like this one? Only $18500 and 8000 miles.

fintail

It was just like that, but I think it said 'Caprice' on the right. Maybe it had 6 taillights.

lemko

...is a 1973 model.

Mr_Shiftright

I could land a small helicopter on the back of that thing. :P

kyfdx

That was our Drivers ED car.. well.. actually a '74 model...

andre1969

had a '72 Impala 4-door hardtop. Looked like this, except it was forest green with a white vinyl top. Really good looking car back in the day, although rust got to it and it was pretty ratty looking by 1982, when they got rid of it.

I always thought it was a handsome looking car, especially up front with its low, clean grille. Oddly, from the side view this one looks kinda short, but it could just be because of the way it's raised up in the back. Or perhaps the way the light is catching the rear window, it makes it blend in with the C-pillar, making it look more bulky.

heeply

I owned a 86 Quantum Syncro and it was one of the greatest rides ever. I also owned a Dodge Stealth, a vintage Mustang and a vintage Roadrunner. The Quantum was better than all of them, hands down. Mine was registered with the Sports Car Club of America and it ran the 1/4 mile in less than 15 seconds (12 seconds I think) That was before I bought it. It had very little body roll when cornering and even with 180000 miles on it I could still get it up to 120 mph.

The 5 cylinder engine is strong, reliable and quick. VW had one of the best marketing slogans for the 5 cylinder. "When 4 isn't enough and 6 is just too much" That's a great tag line for a great car.

Mr_Shiftright

I had a Quantum but not a Synchro, and it was a very good car for me. I never see them anymore.

Spotted----very clean Volvo 122 4-door sedan. These cars go forever. They may be the best car in the world (if you don't have the automatic).

kyfdx

I think one thing that kept the Quantum from being more popular, was the lack of an automatic transmission option on the AWD Synchro models...

andre1969

I saw a sad sight. There's this late 50's Benz that's been sitting at an auto shop near me for quite awhile now, in their parking lot but sitting out towards the road. Little brown 4-door, the style I think they call the "Ponton". Well, yesterday I happened to drive by that shop, and it was still there, but parked at an odd angle. And alas, its front-end was newly punched in. :sick: I'm guessing either someone ran off the road and slammed into it (fairly high-speed road). I guess someone could have just accidentally whacked it moving around in the parking lot, but this looked like a pretty hard hit.

Also, in DC yesterday, I saw an early/mid 70's F-150, pale yellow. Looked pretty solid but dirty. Older couple driving in it. Also spotted a '68 Newport convertible that was trying to jockey for a parallel parking spot. I could feel for the driver. I was in my '79 NYer, which often needs to pass up the smaller spots, and I'm sure that '68 had a few inches on me!

Mr_Shiftright

Here's a '68 Newport you don't see everyday (thankfully to some eyes I guess):

Sport Grain Package anyone?

imidazol97

I believe I've only seen one of those in my lifetime.

Just happened onto RM auctions on ESPN2 around noon today. They sold a Packard 1947 maybe, woodie, and a boat on a trailer. The boat was... wood.... and the trailer and boat were era appropriate.

andys120

Seen on a short drive today:

-Toyota Cressida Wagon, silver.
-Sterling 825 Sedan, metallic blue
-Buick Grand National, black, oversized aftermarket wheels, otherwise stock.

All looked good except for the usual paint faded by the Arizona sun (GN had shiny black paint).

jrosasmc

What's wrong with an automatic-equipped Volvo 122? Is the unit troublesome or finicky?

fintail

Today I spotted an early Subaru 4x4 wagon, from the 70s. Also a 65 Riviera gliding through traffic like a big shark. My drive took me past a high end body shop, where sitting outside was a crashed MB W123, of all things. It was rear ended pretty hard, easily totalled a few times over.

In my parking garage a new car has moved in across from mine, a SL 600. Judging by the radio and steering wheel in it, I am pretty sure it is a 97. It has a period AMG exhaust and rare 19" period AMG wheels. Something like that probably cost 130K when it was new. It's in nice condition, but I don't think it has moved for a week.

michaellno

Spotted an original Mini today .. looks like someone has restored it to pretty decent condition. Navy blue with white stripes.

Had to do a double take as it was heading in the opposite direction ... thought for a moment that it was the "new" Mini, but t'wasn't.

andre1969

Hmmm, that sportsgrain stuff isn't quite as bad as I thought it would be, although I think the car would look much better without it. Isn't the price on that car a little high, considering the rocker panels have that wavy bondo look to them, and the front bumper looks like it needs to be re-chromed?

I had a '67 Newport for a few months, and didn't really care for it. I thought it was kinda ugly, especially up front. But then that '68, which is the same car basically, seems more attractive to me. I think part of it is the front, which is more flat-faced, with a recessed grille. My '67 had a bit of a peak to the grille that stuck out, and the edges of the fenders stuck out as well. It looked a bit like it was trying to rip off Lincoln/Mercury, which I guess is possible, since it was an Elwood Engel design. Mine was also a 2-door hardtop, with that awkward roofline that looked better on a Barracuda, but just didn't seem right on something the size of a Newport. Mine also didn't have a vinyl roof, and this might have been one rare case where a vinyl roof would've made the car look better?