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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)
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That Impala might not have the highest standard of paintwork or interior materials, but it was usually pleasant to own and would require minimal servicing. Not to mention it usually wasn't bad looking either.
My fintail is about the size of a period Ford Fairlane I think...an intermediate...but it had a sticker price like a Caddy.
Take Chrysler, for example. With the exception of the Dart over a Valiant (there was a big size difference back then), there really isn't much of a step up going from a Plymouth to a Dodge. The Dodge might get you a slightly nicer interior, but the quality is the same. Same engine and tranny choices, same suspension components, etc. Even making the jump to a Chrysler, there's not much of a leap when it comes to mechanicals. Maybe you'd get a standard 383 instead of a 318, and a longer car with a bit more trunk space (back then they figured out how to make cars longer without making the passenger cabins any bigger inside), and some nicer interior furnishings, but stil, the same quality was there. Now Imperial was a bit of a different story, through 1966 at least. These cars were body-on-frame, dating back to 1957, but used a few Unibody (a Chrysler-coined phrase) tricks to make them stiffer. In fact, for awhile, they were actually banned from demolition derbies!
Anyway, in comparison, as you move up the ranks through GM, the cars definitely get better. Different engines, transmissions, and in some cases even the frame and suspension are different! GM had to protect that 5 car line hierarchy, so naturally they weren't going to let the cheap cars get built too well, otherwise there'd be no incentive to move up.
I'd say it was 1971 when GM threw all that away, at least with their full-sized cars. Sure, they still had their own corporate engines, but just about everything else was the same. And a 1971 Cadillac had the same shoddy build quality as a 1971 Chevy Impala.
I know with Ford, they did put a lot of effort in the 60's and 70's Lincoln, but there wasn't much difference between Ford and Mercury.
Fintail, do you know what the dimensions (length and wheelbase) of your car are? Just guessing, I'd say it would actually be about the size of a typical compact of the era, not an intermediate. Although in domestic cars, there was some overlap here. For instance, a compact Dart was about the same length (196") as a midsized Chevelle/Malibu, at least through 1967.
I do know of this page, but it is metric and I am way too lazy to do conversions. Mine is a 220SE by the way...slightly longer than the single headlight cars.
http://www.heckflosse.nl/dim4.htm
I don't know if these pics will help
Compared to an 80s S class
Only obscure car I saw today was an early 60s Studebaker pickup, yellow, pretty clean. Also, I did see an early K car convertible, the kind without the rear quarter windows.
I always thought the color-coordinated hubcaps and/or rims were cool, too!
As for the fintail, I did a conversion, and it looks like they rode a 106-107" wheelbase, were about 191" long overall, and about 59" tall. In contrast, the typical domestic mid-60's compact was probably around 106-111" in wheelbase, 180-195" long, and maybe 53-55" tall. Being more upright though, the Benz probably has more overall interior room, probably more on par with some of the intermediates of the time. Might've even beat out some full-sizers, when it comes to headroom and rear-seat legroom!
I think a lot of people share that image of the 80s S class (126). For whatever reason....long production run, tons of media exposure, fairly timeless styling...people think of that car when they think of Mercedes. And I don't think it is a bad thing...it's a great old car. At 172K now it is quieter and smoother than many much newer cars I have been exposed to. The inline 6 gets decent mileage and maintenance is no huge expense. It's a good combination. Build quality and materials used are simply unbeatable.
I just did a Euro light conversion on the 126, to replace the clunky 2 piece glass 'n plastic DOT lights. It now looks like this...the new lights take years off, this is how it is supposed to look (save for the US wipers, which I need to remedy). And the Euros have the cool 5 watt "city lights" which look very unique.
To me the fintail seems about Fairlane size, but I never compared the dimensions. The fintail is not a huge car...although, as you predict, it is very roomy inside, especially in head room....I am 6'1" and have inches to spare. My theory has been that the cars were designed when men often worse those old fedora style hats, so the car was made so there would be room. It is a very roomy and airy car inside, with all the glass and open space. The trunk is also huge, as it is a crumple zone...one of the first cars engineered specifically that way.
I get compliments on the hubcaps all the time...it never fails to amaze me. To put things in perspective, those are little 13" wheels on the fintail, undoubtedly a styling ploy to make the car appear larger.
There's a Mercedes 600 on ebay right now with a vinyl top and a Ford V8 conversion
* several GTOs, one a drop-top
* Ferrari Mondial
* Ferrari Mondial convertible
* Ferrari Testarossa
* Hummer H1
* several 911s, maybe 10 or so
* '65 Mustang Fastback
* chopped and custom '28 pickup
* chopped/custom station wagon from the 40s
* a Delorean
* Camaro SS ragtop, '72 I think?
It was really cool. There's a dealer in Potomac, MD that sells these toys, and they displayed them all.
Proud Papa that I am, I must point out that my daughter's favorite was the Red Ferrari Mondial convertible. She bypassed several less sophisticated cars to show me it was her pick! :-)
Atta girl!
-juice
Volvo 240s are real rattle traps. They aren't "tight" like a Benz. They used to loosen up pretty badly in a couple of years. If it wasn't the exhaust system banging on the frame, it was the rear trailing arm bushings drumming a beat on every bump. Light years away from an S class I'm afraid. If you jumped from a Benz to a Volvo and back again in the 1980s, you would know exactly the difference between them in an instant.
BIG difference in the driving experience in both vehicles...
Looks like a British knock-off of some sort.
Hindustani Ambassador, using body dies of some BMC product (Morris Oxford?) from the mid 50s I think
The Mercedes lineup in 1990 or so was pretty solid, even with an old S class. No real weak links at all.
I read here that they also made a Hindustani Contessa, which is based on a Vauxhall but has Isuzu power. Now that is pretty global I must say.
Yes, that's what it looks like, a Morris Oxford, which in turn looks like a Morris Minor.
I must research the current Hindustani resale market here in America. I hear tell bidding is very active on Ebay (just kidding).
I loved the old Quattroportos. Those things could suck gas like you wouldn't believe. You'd swear there was a 6-inch hole in your fuel tank.
I see an old (early 80s) Quattroporte around town now and then. Looks to be in decent shape...must be hell when something breaks, though. I think the 60s one was cooler, that period Euro luxury sedan styling. The current one mimics it.
I haven't even heard of a Phaeton being seen yet...wow. Maybe they were travelling with the Maserati in some kind of road test. I did read a review in 'Car' I believe...in England, with the W12, it was approaching 100 grand when converted.
Great stuff, but next time reduce the image size a bit! Thanks!
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The build quality on a Mercedes is light years ahead, but the driving mannerisms of my 240 were very similar to lower-end Mercedes, especially the 300D's of yore.
I have only driven an S-class twice, but the steering was so taut you could use a pencil to steer. My 240, however, was halfway between that and not having power steering at all. I did once get my 240 up to 105mph though.
You have to remember this was an entry level car, and with its share of problems.
The 190 to have is the 2.6, but with the 16 valve option. Those prices tend to be higher.
I think you mean the 2.3-16, which was the sport model c.1986. Prices are much higher for that model, it was almost marketed as a future collectible when new, if I am not mistaken. If I remember correctly, it had a little spoiler and special bodykit etc. I think I had a toy one.
The guy I know with the Universal and about 10 other MB has a 1993 190 Sportline, one of the last made. With the special interior and trim it is much cooler than a typical 190.
A 2.3-16 will bring just about double the price of a base 2.3 or a 2.6, so it's definitely sought after.
A 190D would be about as low end as it gets.
Fintail, my dad replaced the two-piece 13" hubcaps and trim rings with the 14" variety, which he had stripped of any paint. I always found it to be funny-looking (essentially silver hubcaps on an off-white car with red leather interior), but to him the upgrade to larger tires was worth it. She also had the 300's chrome trim down the flanks...
What would I give for a decent W111 220 Coupe, just for sentimental value. And I bet my father would get a heart attack if I showed up in such a ride. Maybe that's not a bright idea, though.
Those coupes are a bit of a bargain out there....beautifully crafted and classic lines....I love the interior door panels on those. You can get an immaculate one for 15 grand easy. You can do a lot worse with the money.
That 300 chrome would look nice too, I would like some of that for my fintail. I know where there's a non-restorable 300 sedan sitting out in the open, but the chrome trim is shot. It does have a factory headrest though, which I have thought about taking...but they look weird.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Those coupes survived pretty well, they are out there...a 220SE coupe is probably more common than a 220SE fintail nowadays. As Shifty mentions...for in the low teens, you could get a presentable and reliable car. Not a bad deal, in my opinion. And in my experience, a lot of them are white...so I bet your car is out there somewhere.
The lower case b indicates it is a second series car, it was a designation that never appeared on the badge, and was used by MB only for a short time in the 50s-60s. The first series 220SE was introduced c.1958-1959 as a Ponton (bulbous early 50s looking car) and then became the 220SEb fintail in 1959 and 220SEb coupe in 1961. The 220SE nameplate died in 1965 along with the highline fintails, and the coupes became the 250SE/280SE.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Andy, as fintail explained very well already, the "b" was an internal designation for the second series of those wonderful cars (which are sometimes also referred to as SEC). Here is a comprehensive MB site, but it's in German...
Now, that's what I'm talking about!
Andy, as fintail explained very well already, the "b" was an internal designation for the second series of those wonderful cars (which are sometimes also referred to as SEC). Here is a comprehensive MB site, but it's in German...
Now, that's what I'm talking about!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Yes Andy, the 280SE 3.5 was the highest engnine choice back then, with a 200hp V8. Classy? You bet!
For some reason, older Mercedes coupes in general have never pulled very strong money, especially the 114s. Probably because they are heavy and slow. So the V8 model corrects that and the price goes up accordingly.
Seems like collectors want to use their cars more and more and pay for roadability. This is probably also why a newer model 280SL will pull as much or more money than an older 190SL nowadays.
I like the 111 coupes best of the "old" ones. Some people look for the stickshift models but I think that's a mistake, as it is a slow and sloppy shifter. The car is more of a GT cruiser and an automatic fits its size and weight, and performs just as well. You can get front disc brakes and a dual braking system on the coupes, too, which is a big plus over the sedans.
It's not a very agile car but feels like a tank on the road. Biggest issue is probably rust. Every crusty coupe from Germany got sent over here with tons of undercoating to hide the problems.
There's also a similar 300SE (model 112) coupe that is fitted with air suspension, but I think that's a car best avoided.
The overall result isn't bad, but I think it's one of those cases where the sedan version just looks better, like it was designed to be a sedan from the get-go, and not grafted half-heartedly into a coupe. With American cars, it was usually the other way around. They'd design the cars so they looked great as a coupe, but the sedan versions often looked hokey and disproportionate in comparison.
There was a Jag hardtop offered like in the late 60's/70's, the XJC that has the same problem. The roofline looks good...just not on that car! Here's a pic...
I mean, it's interesting to see, and cool in its own right for being somewhat of a rarity, but it just lacks the rakish good looks that the sedan version of that car has.
Andre, if you were talking about a Volvo 262C or that hideous Z3 hardtop contraption, I could see the worry, but where exactly does that slide off the design charts?