I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

magnetophone

One of my mom's first cars that I remember was a Fiat X1/9 in bright orange. I remember that only me and her fit in the car, and that was about it.

jrosasmc

How often do you see any of the original Minis back in the U.S.? I would suspect very rarely, as I have never seen one myself. From what I have read, the Mini was only sold in the States from 1959 until 1967, when it was withdrawn because it couldn't meet safety and emissions standards. Can anyone back me up on this?

It is too bad that they were subject to British Leyland's management in the 1970's. Those original Minis look very inviting to drive- I will bet that they are faster than even an original VW Bug or Volvo 444.

lancerfixer

re: Volvo interiors.

My 740 has been mechanically unbreakable, but with a few niggling issues that seem to strike all 740s, like the sagging headliner (ripped mine out completely, finally,) the squeaky clutch cable,(must...get...grease...in...right...spot...) and of course, the cracked dash. It just ain't a RWD Volvo without a big ol' fault line running right down the center of the dashboard. The leather's still perfect, but I'm pretty obsessive about keeping it that way.

andre1969

you might be able to find him at www.mytravco.com or www.travco.org. Those things have a cult following...I think they were actually one of the first mass-produced motorhomes. A couple years back, I almost bought a '74, but then a rare dose of common sense kicked in ;-)

ajvdh

There are two of 'em around here that I see now and then. One is a ragtop! The factory never built those, did they? The convertible top sticks out like an old Beetle's when it's folded down. There are also several of 'em that participate in local vintage racing events - not street legal, obviously.

andys120

I'm sure the factory farmed out the Mini convertibles to Jensen or somebody. I imagine the same is true of Mini Mokes.

Jros....I see an old Mini once or twice a year.
Your summary of US production '59-'67 is correct.
There were never very popular here, even in the Northeast but had a cult following among the sedan-racer/rally crowd.

If I were you I'd make it my mission to drive an original Mini while you're in the UK, preferably a 1275cc. It's said to be the most fun you can have with 4 wheels.

Mr_Shiftright

I would think a Mini 1275 would humiliate a VW big or Volvo 444 in performance and handling, but alas, not in reliability.

magnetophone

There's an original mini for sale in an exotic car lot near my house, it's been there for a long time.

I believe the Mini was made in ragtop, wagon, four-door form even in Europe.

lancerfixer

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2433314257&category=6472

andys120

it's a Humber Super Snipe, a rare item. There used to be a couple of sedans in my home town in the early '60s.

Humber was part of Rootes Group along with Sunbeam, Hillman and Riley. IIRC Chrysler Corp bought Rootes in the early 60s (inheriting the Ford V8 engined Sunbeam Tiger- no Mopar V8 would fit.)

As you can readily see the SS combined ChryCo's 50s exterior styling with veddy British wood and leather.

I'm tmpted to bid on that figuring
--I could get it for cheap
--If it survived this long it must be less temperamental than it's finicky peers.
--What fun to answer the inevitable "Whassat?"
with "Why it's a Super Snipe, my good fellow?"

A relic of the Golden Age of Euro Imports '55-'65, I could go on for hours.

jrosasmc

Here's what happened today in swingin' London: I saw not one, but two, Saab 9000s on the back of flatbed trucks. They were both '93s or up. Also saw an Alfa 164 being towed by another truck.

andys120

Did you see any disabled Lancia Themas or Fiat Chromas, same platform as the 9000&164?

fintail

That Humber is awesome

How about a Thema 8.32 with a V8?

Mr_Shiftright

It's a car that really needs to go back to the UK, as they are pretty much sale-proof in America, so maybe someone there will get it. Very homely car I think, not easy to look at without flinching.

fintail

I could see it going back home.

It has that early 60's Euro-modern styling, which was a weird mix of American themes. Much like a fintail in some ways...it's ugly, but in a tolerable way.

andys120

while ugly-American on the outside it's handsome inside, at least to me, I'm a sucker for wood, leather and white-on-black gauges. A '59 Belvedere outside, Silver Cloud inside(?)

European attempts at Americanized styling often missed badly because they tried to be restrained.
Total flamboyance is what made 50s American cars fun to look at.

ghulet

I think a lot of the American styling themes of that era (fins, two-toning, quad headlights, excessive chrome) looked 'appropriate' on land yachts, but downright silly on most of the smaller European cars that tried half-heartedly to emulate them (and on some smaller American cars, too, like Ramblers and Studebakers). Those excesses just don't wash on a smaller car, IMO.

ghulet

...but certainly not something you see every day; at a gas station near my house (which always seems to have an interesting vintage car for sale), there's a '55 Buick Super 4-door sedan in really nice condition for sale (black with beautiful red interior, $7000), with something like 65k original miles. The only real cosmetic flaws I saw were some pitted chrome (namely the door handles) and a cracked window in the front door.

a_l_hubcaps

Today I saw an absolutely pristine 1983 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera in 2-tone blue (light top, dark bottom) with those cool machined disc wheel covers (and whitewalls, of course). I have not seen such a perfect 1980s A-body in a long time, and this one had about the best paint scheme available, in my opinion. I wanted it! :-)

-Andrew L

Mr_Shiftright

Hard sell, a 4-door Buick, very hard sell. He/she should try $5,500 and take the first comer. For just a little more you can get a decent 2-door post or hardtop.

Hey, I DID see an obscure car today.....remember the VW 412? I forget what the difference was with a 411? Was it 2-door/4 door?

Anyway, this one was RUNNING....no REALLY...it wasn't on the end of a rope and it wasn't coasting down hill with the engine off.

Lest we forget, this 411 engine was the same one used in the Porsche 914. The difference is that the Porsche owner gets the car fixed and maintained and the 412 owner doesn't.

stickguy

I think the change in name was evolutionary. It did come in 4 door sedan and 2 door wagon (well, actually 3). My grandmother had one in the 70's when I was learning to drive. I actually took my road test on it.

Absolute dog with an AT. And for a car with the engine in the rear, very heavy (manual) steering. But it was slow. And IIRC, a nasty propensity to catch on fire.

fintail

I remember seeing a 412 in the late 80s. I don't think it was running then. I recall it was gold in color, and ugly.

I saw a lovely black and white Studebaker Hawk today, maybe c.1957...one of the non-hardtop models with nice fins. I also saw a big 37 Buick sedan with sidemounts keeping up with city traffic.

magnetophone

Fiat Cromas are extremely rare in England, and Lancia Themas are even rarer, but i did see one or two Cromas when I was there in July.

The general rule with English buying habits of the Fiat/Lancia/Alfa trimvirate is that they tend to like smaller Fiats, and larger Alfas and Lancias.

jrosasmc

What's wrong with the VW 412? I think they're cool cars.

lancerfixer

They would get kinda warm when they burst into flames.

lemko

...a teal blue 1965 Buick wildcat every day on my way home from work. The paint is badly oxidized and the hubcabs are missing, but the body is solid.

ghulet

The gas station to which I referred in post #1344 now has a '56 Chrysler Windsor Newport four-door (at that time, Chrysler used 'Newport' to indicate the model as a hardtop; it wasn't its own model name yet). It's in pretty good shape, green with white side spears and has power windows. Fairly rare, as only about 7000 were produced.

Incidentally, that '55 Buick Super that was at the same gas station last week was purchased by a friend of my brother (he's sort of the local 'car guy', as he also has a '64 Mercedes SE convertible and an old Bentley).

jrosasmc

I was reading a collection of old Road & Track road tests at a bookstore in London recently- one of them was a group test between six sports cars from Apr. 1976. They included, among all cars, the MGB, Fiat 124 Spider, Midget, Spitfire 1500, and X1/9. I was very appalled at their performance numbers. A 1976 MGB doing 0-60 mph in 18.3 secs and getting only 22 mpg? Heck, even my mother's '99 Volvo S70 GLT could blow the doors off every single one of those cars.

jrosasmc

Forgot to mention: the other car in that test was a TR7. And even my own '93 Volvo could run rings around it.

fintail

Ah the golden age of the automobile...all the emissions equipment with no technology

I have a 1981 Consumer Guide that lists a Volvo diesel at 25.8 0-60, and many cars up around 20. Maybe not the good old days

andre1969

that '56 Chrysler sounds pretty sweet. I always liked the Mopar 4-door hardtops that year. The back windows look especially neat when they roll down, because the little quarter window is attached to the larger window, so when you roll down the windows, everything goes down. The big window rolls down straight, while the little quarter window kinda pivots down at an angle. It must be really neat to watch with power windows!

andre1969

In the late 70's/early 80's, I think if you had a car that did 0-60 in under 10 seconds, that was a pretty fast car. I have a Consumer Guide from 1985, and even in that book, not too many cars can do it in under 10 seconds. Sure, stuff like the Camaro IROC, Mustang GT, and a Nissan Z could do it, but there wasn't much else. I think the Toyota Cressida they tested did it in 9.6, and the Maxima with a stick shift was around that, too. And a BMW 6-series, and a Jag XJC were pretty quick. There were a few turbo Mopars that did around 9.5 seconds, and a Pontiac Sunbird turbo.

Hey Fintail, does that 1981 Consumer Guide of yours by any chance have a test of a Mopar R-body in it? (Gran Fury, St. Regis, Newport, New Yorker?) Just curious, as I have a '79 New Yorker.

fintail

You are right about those performance figures. It seems that in that 1981 book, they considered anything under 15 or so to be decently quick, and under 10 was some kind of supercar. The Z-28 they tested did it in 9 flat...pretty sad...and a Mustang "Cobra" did it in 12.8....my fintail is a bit faster than that.

The book actually lists all of those R bodies save for the Newport. It has decent Mopar coverage, with what appears to be the entire Chrysler and Dodge lineups, and the Imperial.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, 76 MGBs are a bad joke but up to 1973 or so they were really great to drive. If fun was my goal, a sweet '68 MGB, free of all smog restraints, would be my choice . There is no comparison in the "grin factor". It's the one area (maybe the only area) where the MGB sets the standard . Every modern Miata, S2000, etc., tips its hat to the old MGB, or at least I'd like to think so.

You'd have to drive the right year MGB with the right setup before you could judge the car. Judging it on a '76 model is like judging the Mustang from a Mustang II.

Sad ending for the car. I remember the last ones with a single Stromberg carburetor installed. At night you could see the exhaust manifold glowing!! Top speed for I think it was a '77 was something like 78 mph.

scscars

I do remember those late 70's MG's. A friend of mine living in St. Louis had a '78 MG. While it was fun to tool around in, it was not particularly fast or reliable. The electricals on it were awful, particularly for a new car. A few weeks after he bought it, someone stole it. The insurance company covered the loss, and my friend replaced the MG with an equally slow and unreliable machine-- A '79 Fiat 128! To the best of my recollection, no one stole it.

jrosasmc

Now how in the world does an exhaust manifold glow at night?

jrosasmc

So if I wanted to drive an MGB, Mr. Shiftright, I'd probably want to choose a '69 Mark II with all-synchromesh gearbox and twin SUs, right?

lemko

...between the Triumph TR-7 and TR-8? When did Triumphs stop being imported?

fintail

TR7 was a 4 cylinder, TR8 was a V8...both sharing the same rust prone structurally flawed platform. I know they were sold here through 81 anyway, I think that might have been the end of the line.

andys120

was the basis for Saab four cylinder engines until recently when they started using GM-block based engines. Wasn't the TR-8 motor based on the ubiquitous (in British cars) Buick-Rover 315?

ajvdh

A-yep. 'Cept it was a 215. It was punched out quite a bit by the time Land Rover got through with it. Aluminum block, BTW. The early '70s gas crunch caused GM to try to buy back the tooling, but BL said, "we got it working OK now, no dice."

andys120

all the different cars that have used the Buick-Rover V8.
           -Rover 3500
           -Range Rover (gen I, II, II)
           -MGBV8
           -TR-8
           -Morgan Plus 8
           
What else? TVR's? Marcoses? Ginettas? There must have been others. Not bad for a relatively lackluster design.

lemko

...that engine was first used in the 1961 Buick Special. I heard somewhere that GM sold the 3.8 V-6 to AMC and then later bought it back from them.

Mr_Shiftright

the TR-7 engine BLOCK was the basis for early Saabs, but not the cylinder head, which was totally defective on the TR7. It used slanted head bolts and you couldn't hold the head down. Some people do get by using three head gaskets. (no, that's not a joke).

So Saab certainly improved or redesigned the head, and only had a 10% failure rate rather than the TR7 100% (sooner or later).

The TR8 has some collector value. It isn't particularly fast as the Buick V-8 is a bit of a slug, and gas hungry too. Ask any Range Rover owner for details.

Some folks think the Triumph
Stag also shared that engine, but alas, no.

RE: glowing manifolds on MBGs -- the fuel mixture was so lean, and with the catalytics working overtime, the exhaust manifolds got red hot very easily. Also, they jacked up the suspension in 1975 to accomodate USA bumper height restrictions, and so in addition to killing all that lovely low end torque, they destroyed the handling as well.

Great job, BL.

Incidentally, the MGB was killed so that BL could introduce their new wonderful car----the TR7!

(don't get me started!!)

jrosasmc

That must have really stunk big-time ('75-'80 Bs)

fintail

It looks like most new vehicles stunk back then

andre1969

their V-6 around through 1968. The '64-67 version was a 225 CID engine that was basically a 300 V-8 with two cylinders lopped off. Well, the 300 went on to become the Buick 350, in '68 I believe. What little demand was left for a 6-cyl Buick (there wasn't much in '68!) was filled by the Chevy 250 inline 6, and they sold the design and all the equipment to build the 225 to Jeep.

When Buick bought back the tooling for the V-6, they modified it slightly so that it could share the same pistons as the 350 V-8. So it had the stroke of the old 225/300, but a 350 bore.

I dunno about how well the original 225 V-6 held up, or how well it did in Jeeps, but when they started putting it in GM cars again in '75, it was a POS, prone to early self-destruction.

fintail

I saw a Pinzgauer today...the Unimog's ugly brother (believe it or not)

andys120

I see one around here now and then. Now that's a 4X4<b/>! (or 6X6 depending on model)

bksward

A guy I know drives one.

He was parked at the beach and as I was walking past it, I heard two guys who were the perfect stereotype of California surfers. One of them said, "Dude, that is the most awesome surf wagon!"

He has a 4x4, with a snorkel and a 10 foot or so antenna on it...