I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

oregonboy

Here's an odd duck, and a seller with high expectations:
Citroen Wagon

hpmctorque

Right, it wasn't me. You described my car correctly, though, if you consider a 1988 to be a mid-1980s.

The Z31 generation included the 1984-1989 model years.

andys120

This is Auction Week in Scottsdale, AZ and I've seen more wonderful old cars than I could possibly describe to you. I'll try to post pictures and/or links as I get around to
downloading them.

I would like to mention one because I've admired pictures and descriptions of it for a very long time. I still have the Road & Track 1962 Road Test Annual with their road test of the Maserati 3500GT Vignale Spider where I first saw a photograph of the car that was similar to this one (except in B&W)>



I even recall the subhead of the article "A Modenese Masterpiece for the Touring Enthusiast".

Today I saw one for the first time and I was not disappointed, it's every bit as pretty as a Ferrari 250 California and a little more agressive looking. Pix of the black beauty I saw in a few days.

I still have two or three more auctions to do but I doubt I'll see anything more impressive to me than that Maser.

Mr_Shiftright

That could bring a 1/4 million bucks if there are no questions about the car. The wires are a good option and if it's a 5 speed, that's worth a bit more as well.

explorerx4

you beat me to it. 'tis the season for people to pay twice what the cars are worth in arizona.
buyer registry; $500, seller's commisson 8%, buyers commission 10%.

andys120

That could bring a 1/4 million bucks if there are no questions about the car. The wires are a good option and if it's a 5 speed, that's worth a bit more as well

That's Ferrari money isn't it? The car did have chromed wires which I have not seen before, except on the car pictured above. I don't recall if it had 5-speeds but the placard said the car was a pre-production prototype, MY 1960. I didn't notice any details that were different from the production version but then again I've never seen an actual production Vignale Spider and as you know production versions of these high zoot Italian jobs often had different details even within a given model year.

While we're on the subject, I wish I could've gotten a look at the DOHC 3.5L I-6>



Now that's a MOTOR!

Mr_Shiftright

Well if it's a pre-production prototype then it has the wrong engine in it---that's a Lucas fuel injection unit, introduced in 1962, and very capable of destroying engines (diluting the oil with raw gas).

A man would want to throw that Lucas injection over the back fence and get hisself 3 Weber carburetors.

Early cars are also less desirable because they have drum brakes and 4-speeds.

They only made 88 Vignale convertibles, though, so the car is rare. Whether it is correct or not, is another matter.

andys120

That is not the engine of the car I saw, it's hood was closed. I just wanted to illustrate what a nice looking DOHC Maserati made. Here's the carbureted version fron a 1960 coupe>



I'm nostalgic for the days when engines weren't hidden behind plastic shrouding.

Mr_Shiftright

Well some engines are beautiful and some are not, so it depends I guess.

aha! So you went photo-picking, did you? Well that explains the Lucas injection. Your latest photo way mo' bettah.

lemko

Ricardo Montalban Dies

explorerx4

an omni/horizon. it looked new. what caught my eye in the first place was that it was clean! pretty rare to see on the street around here lately!

fintail

They were decent enough snow cars...maybe they come out in the winter there now. I haven't seen one in these parts for some time.

fintail

Put secondhand parts to use

Runabout with a good name

Deco gem

Ditch the common Isetta

Sell it in England, not here

Dark days

Why is this here?

Has to be the best one left

Canada gets the good freaks

Not many of these left

Decent looking fintail

One of the most sought after pontons

hpmctorque

That supercharged Graham is really nice.

The Yugo looks much better than it has a right to for a throw-away. Now if it were, say, a Corolla, it would be cheap at that price. If only...if only my grandmother had a moustache she'd be my grandfather.

Except for a couple of blemishes, that '77 Celica looks like new. Of course we know that very low mileage old cars can have issues associated with having sat for long periods without having been driven.

andys120

Most Gen I Celicas had the Notchback roof which IMO was far less attractive than the
fastback shown. In fact the Fastback compares favorably stylewise to the contemporary 280-Z.

Kudos to the seller for providing comprehensive and well-composed photographs illustrating the condition of the car which is apparently superb. This car is probably going to be a good buy for someone given that the seller will be lucky to recover the cost of the fancy paint job.

How can a car with a $6500 repaint win a First Prize for originality?

boomchek

We get a lot of freaks.

I even thought about importing some oddballs from Poland, but then I don't have the space for them.

I was also going to get a 2nd car, likely a domestic boat from the 70s as a fun car last fall, but we decided to put $$ away for now and save as much as possible.

fintail

Last night I saw an old Volvo 444/544 in traffic...I couldn't make out which model, but it had some kind of "Sport" badge on the back and was in very good condition. It was driven by a woman in her 20s, which shocked the heck out of me. Women like that are hard to find...

When I was in school I knew of a young woman who drove around in a restored Volvo Duett wagon...it was actually her dad's, but she loved it and drove it whenever she could. She also thought highly of my fintail.

fintail

Not a bad time to be fiscally conservative. These heavily depreciating performance sedans tempt me too, but I want to be free of payments.

Mr_Shiftright

volvo 444 has a split front windshield and 544 doesn't. 544 is a much better car, with the B18 engine, as opposed to the 444's B16 engine, which has this funny quirk of breaking its crankshaft in half.

jrosasmc

Just curious, how old do you think that Volvo 444/544 owner was? Did she look as if she was out of college, or a little older?

The firm I work at in the DC area has a lot of mid-to-late 20-somethings like myself. One lady I know who is about 27 drives a '79 Cadillac Sedan DeVille, and it's in mint condition. I found out that it used to be her grandmother's. I'm sure Lemko would love to meet her!

fintail

Was there a "Sport" model of either? It had a nameplate on the back that looked period to me, and it read "Sport" and then maybe something else.

fintail

I'd say she could have been 25-30 yeah. The car was very clean and it looked restored...so if she's an enthusiast, she's a rare breed, and more power to her.

Is that girl taking care of the Caddy? That's a problem I see with young people and old cars...they don't like to maintain them any different than they would a Corolla.

I have a friend who is around my age (31) who has a pair of 80s Monte Carlos, one is very well maintained, the other is kind of returning to the earth, very slowly. A co-worker inherited a lower mileage mid 90s LeSabre from his grandmother, but more out of necessity, as he's a perpetual debtor and the payments on his late model car were killing him (84 month term and all), so he picked up that thing. It hasn't been exactly problem-free either, I think the old timer didn't maintain it.

On the obscure car front, I had the fintail out on the first sunny Sunday in eons, and got a wave today from a guy in a ca. 1970 220D....he was keeping up with traffic, so flooring it no doubt. I also got a thumbs up from a guy in a Civic hybrid.

Mr_Shiftright

yes I think both the 544 with B16 or B18 came in "sport" versions, but I don't recall that a 444 ever came in a sport version.

I once saw a B18A engine, which has only one downdraft carburetor. Most engines you'll see are B18Ds.

The B16 has a fatal flaw in it so i can't imagine adding extra HP to it for a sport version. It simply doesn't have enough main bearings (only 3 I think) as opposed to the B18s five main bearings (BIG difference!).

oregonboy

Here's Wikipedia's take on the 544:

In 1958, the PV544 was phased in. Subtle differences with the PV444 included the introduction of a curved one-piece windshield to replace the two panes of flat glass, a larger backlight, and a ribbon-type speedometer. The 444's 3-speed manual transmission was also supplanted by a 4-speed unit in the 544.

The next significant change occurred in 1962, when the B16 was replaced by Volvo's new B18 engine, initially developed for the P1800 sports car introduced the previous year. This 1.8 L engine had five main bearings. Again single and twin carburettor versions were offered, designated B18A and B18D, respectively. The U.S. market saw very few[vague] B18A cars since the United States' public prioritised performance over fuel economy. Also in 1962, Volvo changed from 6- to 12-volt electrical systems.

The PV544 was also made as an estate (wagon) version, the Duett, initially designated the P445 and later the P210.

The 544 received incremental mechanical revisions and trim changes until its final production year of 1965. Exactly 440,000 units were built during the 18-year run. The car had so endeared itself to its owners that Volvo ran self-deprecating advertisements in late 1965 and early 1966 imploring PV owners not to be angry with the company.

The Duett's utility allowed Volvo to continue the wagon's production through the 1969 model year. These were then replaced in some markets by a high-roof version of the Volvo 145, called the Express.

Ain't this a hoot?! Do you think that it can hold off the Alfa?



Lots of nice old volvo pics here

andre1969

It looks like I might need to hide those checks that came from the bank when I got my HELOC, because one of my dream barges has just come in!

It's equipped almost exactly the way I'd want one of these. Perfect color, IMO. Buick magnum rally wheels, split power seat, and power windows. Only downside, IMO, would be the engine. I'd much rather have the 455 in a beast this big. But I guess the 350 would be okay for cruising around. I drove a 4-door version with the 350, and it seemed adequate. Also, it looks like it might have been repainted. In some pics, the paint just looks funny, and there seems to be some overspray on the underside of the hood.

What would something like this reasonably go for? Maybe $6-7K?

kyfdx

VW Phaeton...

Spectacular looking car.... Wouldn't touch one with your money..

Mr_Shiftright

The '75 Lesabre is very low mileage and looks to be in very nice shape, so I'd put Fair Market Value at about $10,000.

fezo

Go for it, Andre!

lokki

There's been a lot of discussion about what a Buick should be..... well, that's a Buick. One of the few cars that can carry off that baby-blue and still look tasteful.

Question on the paint. In 75 were they still using enamels or had already they gone to thin colors with clearcoat on top?

Now let's make the question hard for Andre -
Which one of your current children would have to move outside to make room in the garage for this one?

andre1969

Now let's make the question hard for Andre -
Which one of your current children would have to move outside to make room in the garage for this one?

Well in theory, I could pull this off without having to make any of the cars give up a garage space. The DeSoto is still over at my grandmother's house. Right now the LeMans and 5th Ave are in the garage. There's an empty spot that the Catalina gets when it comes back from the mechanic...and that has been "any day now" for several weeks! What would normally be the 4th spot is currently being used for storage. Boxes, chairs, a desk, some old tv's, parts of a weight bench, and a bunch of other stuff that needs going through.

But once the DeSoto comes over from my grandmother's, I guess the 5th Ave would have to give up its spot in the garage, if I was to take on that Buick.

As for paint, they were still using enamels at that time. I think the first car to use a clearcoat paintjob, on the domestic front at least, was the 1977 Lincoln Versailles. IIRC, the next year they started offering it on other Lincolns, but I think it was an extra-cost option.

I always thought that baby blue was the perfect 1975 LeSabre color. I've seen other 1975 GM cars in that color, and it just doesn't suit them as well. I saw an Electra that color, and it didn't seem right, but the Electra was more upscale, and IMO needed to be metallic. I've also seen a '75 LeMans in that color, and it did nothing for me. Ditto a '75 Delta 88 convertible and '75 Caprice. All cars that I like, but that blue just seems so perfect on the LeSabre!

toomanyfumes

Not a fan of baby blue, but you're right, that car can pull it off.

explorerx4

this picture:
reminds me a bit of

of this

berri

Andre, I think you're a Mopar man at heart. Forget the 75 Buick. If you want to drop 10 G's on a boat, look for a 50's/60's Imperial instead!

fezo

That blue looks kind of like the blue that Pontiac called lake blue in 1964. A friend's mother had a Tempest in that color. The Buick (yes, a REAL Buick!) is maybe just a shade darker. Andre no doubt has the paint chips....

boomchek

We're heading to San Fran in about a week. I'll make sure to check out the streets they shot Bullit on.

explorerx4

are you drivng a rental?

boomchek

We're driving my car (the Jeep Patriot).

LOL, I know what you're suggesting. Go to hertz and rent a Shelby GT-H for me and a Charger for the wife, and see how they fly?

Wouldn't that be fun?

explorerx4

you're reading me like a cheap novel. not only that, i never even thought about the 2 rental scenario. you're way ahead of me!

boomchek

I have the Bullit soundtrack on my ipod, and it's fun listening to it creeping in traffic.

fintail

There was once a nice shade of sky blue, too ...couldn't resist

fintail

That would be a fun trip.....retrace the route....but today, the traffic will be a million times worse, and the cars a million times more boring

boomchek

I watched the film several times, and some chase scenes were just same scenes as before but shot froma different angle. Yoiu can tell by seeing the same background cars in the back.

But yeah, it would be fun.

andre1969

Ask and ye shall receive. Here's a 1964 Pontiac paint chart. They call that 75 Buick-looking color "Skyline Blue". Browsing through those charts, Buick called it "Wedgewood Blue" and Oldsmobile called it "Bermuda Blue". I didn't see it on the Chevy paint chart, so I guess they didn't offer it?

Years ago, I looked at a 1964 Pontiac convertible that the seller said was originally "Dusty Rose". But I don't see that name listed on the paint chart. However, it looked sort of like the "Sunfire Red Poly". Someone saw fit to give it a cheap repaint in an awful pinkish-lavender color, but they didn't get under the hood, trunk, or doorjambs, so you could see the original color peeking through. Horrible thing to do to a nice old car. Or what had been a nice old car...it was pretty bad by this time, and wouldn't run for more than a couple seconds.

Mr_Shiftright

You do realize of course, that one leap off the pavement like that would destroy a modern car (and I think destroyed the various Mustangs they used in the film). Of course, front ends can be rebuilt...

kyfdx

My mother had a 1962 Star Chief in that same color blue.. That was the first car I remember... We kept it until she got a new Bonneville 2-door in 1967...

lokki

You do realize of course, that one leap off the pavement like that would destroy a modern car

That's why God invented rental cars.... for only $15 extra per day, if the front end falls off, you can just call Hertz and they bring you a new one :P

explorerx4

well 'boom, if you do decide to re trace the chase scene, don't stop at the gas station!

boomchek

yeah, we all know what happened there!

Thinking about i now, it would be cool to drive a Mustang, even the few year old Bullit edition down there and around San Fran.

However it's not a car firendly city from what I've read. Even hotels charge you $20-30/day for parking with a hotel room :mad: :confuse:

explorerx4

i saw my friend from up the street in my next door neighbor's driveway showing him a porsche boxter.
can't wait to hear the story about it. i am thinking it is for his son.

boomchek

Modified 300C that he says might be worth millions.....right