I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

Did you buy your childhood home or something?

I think I have an issue of Collectible Autombile in that closet, from maybe 1988 - the first issue I ever saw of it.

boomchek

My doors are always open for brochures (when my wife is not looking)

boomchek

Although it looks like it's in nice shape, this guy has no idea as to what his car is called and what it has underneath:

Alfa 164 Spider

fintail

Weird, it's like he mixed two cars together.

Is he not able to count? (the spark plug wires)

boomchek

He also thinks it's Front Wheel Drive. Maybe he's selling it for someone?

Mr_Shiftright

It's either:

1. A way overpriced Alfa 2.0L Spider, circa 1993

2. A 164 sedan with the wrong pictures, also way overpriced

3. An Alfa Spider with a 6 cylinder conversion and the wrong pictures

In any event, this is not a good start.

berri

Collectible Automobile is my favorite magazine. I like it better than Hemming's Classic Car, but I guess they are aimed a little differently. Both good reads though. I hoard mine!

uplanderguy

I subscribe to Hemmings Classic Car. I think it has incredible quality for such a low subscription price.

I also enjoy Collectible Automobile. It's like a coffee table magazine! The photography is great! And I am always amazed when they get those 'inside the design studio' photos...that you never see anyplace else! I buy it on the newsstand when there's subject matter I'm interested in...which is fairly often. I'm glad they include '70's cars..well, actually both mags do..since those are the cars of my teens. At about 1980, I lost interest in cars...except for GM's V8 rear-drives that soldiered on 'til the late '80's.

I get frustrated when I find common, basic errors of fact in both magazines...not even matters of opinion, just basic facts wrong...but I guess that will never go away completely.

Bill

texases

Saw an RX-7 GSL-SE today - if I only fit, that would be a good one to have. Looked ok, except for the (aftermarket) stainless rocker panel trim piece behind the front wheel looked like it was 'pop' rivited on...rust, I guess.

As for car mags, anyone have any Automobile Quarterlies? Lots of nice pics. My dad got it for a few years, I went to school, came back and he had given them away

kyfdx

No idea how old that is... 5-10 years? A/Ms are rare sightings around here...

Also.. yesterday, spotted two 1st-Gen Toyota MR-2s... both red.. both in great shape.

fintail

I remember I found a few AQ at a thrift store when I was younger. I didn't accumulate too many of those. I remember for some reason my high school library had nearly a full run of those - the librarian was an old time vintage car buff.

Today's odd sighting - BMW 8 series coupe.

texases

A new "museum" (I think it's more of a consignment sales room) opened up down the block from my barber, the "NTX Automotive Museum". I went in after my haircut, and was surprised to find it about 2/3 Mercedes, with a fair number of '50s models. While their web site doesn't have a photo gallery (you can see consignments here), if you go here a number of them scroll across the bottom, including a 300SL coupe and roadster. I can't vouch for their authenticity, the "500K" they had on the floor was an obvious fakey-doo reproduction :sick:

fintail

Ah yeah consignment sales museums. The highline exotic used dealer here kind of operates like that.

I'd say the 300SLs are real...if he's got an SLR hanging around, there's a little money out there.

And to nitpick:

The year can't be right and the car is not a fintail, so I don't know what the description is supposed to mean

"Remember what happened with the 190SL? The 280's are following the example" That's correct...good 280SLs are what 190SLs were maybe 15 years ago...but this is a 380SL and it aint gonna go there.

texases

I figured you'd catch that 'fintail'...as for the 380SL, they did have a pretty good looking 280SL on the floor, too, wonder if they cut and pasted some text without proofing.

xrunner2

My grandparents used to have a bunch of National Geographics from the 70's, but at some point I think they got thrown out.

I had a collection from 65. Wife got after me to clean out the bookcases. Also did look through older ones and did cut out some car ads. Got rid of maybe 75 percent of them. Think garbage man was ticked off when I put them out in recycle boxes. They are pretty heavy stacked up. Still subscribe.

Have a 32 cd rom set covers 1888 to 2000. Got at Costco years ago.

boomchek

The year can't be right and the car is not a fintail, so I don't know what the description is supposed to mean

Maybe tells you how much they know about classic cars :confuse:

Mr_Shiftright

DOH -- it's a 220S Ponton coupe, carburetor engine. Not a terribly collectible early Benz actually. The SE version is worth a bit more and is a bit more sought after. These were made 1957-1960 and are fairly rare but not very valuable. ($35K for a real beauty??---$30K and under for a 220S)

Mr_Shiftright

The 280SLs have been "following the example" of the 190SL for quite a few years now and are in fact now worth MORE than a 190SL. Not sure why this is a surprise to a car museum, but oh well.

Reason---the 280SL is considerably more drivable on modern roads, faster, handles better, is more comfortable, and cheaper to repair. Other than that, no real advantage :P

The 380SL, however, will continue to spiral into collector car Neverland. The posted price is about market correct for a top notch car and that's about what it will be worth in another ten years, too. (adjusted for inflation).

fintail

Speaking of car ads, I notice google has a bunch of old "Life" magazines scanned in, ads and all. The prewar ads are especially nice, Packard and Lincoln ads especially.

fintail

Aren't some people paying crazy money for concours 95+ point 190SLs?

A nice 113 is still a bargain and probably will remain so. A decent enough driver quality 230SL can be had for under 20K, maybe even a few grand less if you bargain. It's a lot of looks and quality for that kind of money.

ghulet

.....a very nice-looking-but-sounded-awful '70 Cutlass convertible (stripes like a 4-4-2, but doubtful).

Also, strangely, TWO 1960 Ford Country Sedans (wagon)....not in the same place, not the same color (I am familiar with one.....owner also had a two-door hardtop, parked on the street and destroyed!). They're trying to find me.

Also saw another 528e today, don't see them too often. Gave the driver a honk and wave. Wanted to share horror and/or repair stories, but had no time. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

I think those days are over. The 280SLs are the hot ticket now---especially the 280, with the nicer interior, AC and bigger engine. My impression is that any 230-50-80 SL under $20K is a real rat at this point.

Here's one with RUSTY ROCKERS AND PAN for $15, 995

and a # 3 from Mexico for $21K.

SOUTH OF THE BORDER

As you can see, they get "edgy" under $20K I think.

Here's a restored 280SL that sold for (or near to) $75,000

280 SL

You can see why it doesn't pay to buy a rusted one.

explorerx4

MGB in BRG, drivng with the top down and the driver looking pretty relaxed.
i'm guessing it is a good one.

fintail

My dad bought a 30K mile 1960 Country Sedan in the early 90s. Red and white with matching interior, mildly optioned - 352, radio, PS (but manual brakes). Sadly it had been stored outside for years and showed it, but he remade the rotten front floor in his own way, and I rubbed out the oxidized paint and waxed it up. It looked pretty nice when it got some much needed TLC. Very fun, wide car - always got attention and comments, my dad liked it so much he commuted in it for awhile. When needs changed and he sold it (something he always regretted), it sold within hours of being put on the market.

My only odd sighting today was a MB C215 in a rare color - horizon blue. I almost bought a W220 in that color before I found the C43...I was very taken by it, but chickened out...maybe the best move I made.

fintail

I've seen a few nice looking driver/#3 230SLs around here for sale for 15-20K. 280SLs seem to bring 5-10K more, and can get pricey if really nice or a 5 speed. Local highline/exotic dealer has a 250SL I think they want in the upper 30s for. The rust buckets are not economically viable, but the driver cars could be decent, and fun for the money.

stickguy

how is that funky 525 doing anyway? I recall your saga with looking at it and going to buy, but I never saw anything else (not around as much as I used to be sometiems).

Lso, today I saw a 1973ish Town car. Big and black and big. Not to mention, it was big.

Mr_Shiftright

They may "look" okay but once you start to examine them, I bet you'll see lots of issues. For instance, you can't always see the rust under the bondo, and if the top is down, you can't tell whether there's a $2000 expense buried under the tonneau. Also many of the early SLs have lost their original cylinder heads (they corroded) so you'll find quite a few with passenger car heads on them as well as mis-matched body panels from other cars (most of the panels are number-coded, so you can tell if you have a "bitsa" car---bitsa this and bitsa that).

The SLs are dangerous cars to buy on the blind.

kyfdx

Rare sighting, any more...

I always expect them to be driven by a BMW enthusiast, because they aren't all that cheap to keep running, and sort of finicky (26-30 yrs old, after all). But, without fail, they look more like they got their car at Hooptie Heaven, and are keeping it together with twine and baling wire.. and, possibly, their only transportation... :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

I had one of those. The 320i was actually a much better car than the 2002 that it succeeded, but it certainly wasn't loved as much. BMW made some marketing errors with that car, over-pricing it and incurring the wrath of almost all the automotive magazines of the time. It got beat up pretty badly, more than it deserved. Phrases like "the darling car for over-spending and unaware yuppie scum". Ouch!

Like the old saying goes "unloved then, unloved now".

I liked mine. Cheap cheerful fun.

kyfdx

I assisted my then girlfriend in shopping for a used one in '84... She bought a '79 from the local BMW dealer...

I thought it was a great car... Not really being exposed to the 2002 set, as a teenager, I didn't have any love affair with the previous model...

I do remember it being hideously expensive, though... Sometime in the late '70s, early '80s, the new car dealers all had their models on display at the local shopping mall.. The 320i in the display had a base price of $11K+, but they had loaded it up with skiing accessories (racks, sheepskin covers, driving lights, etc.. ), and their addendum sticker was $16K!!

Heck, you could buy a nice Cutlass or Regal for $7K-$8K at the time... lol..

For someone that was driving a pretty nice '82 Accord at the time, I just couldn't believe the handling, and the lack of speed sensation at 85+mph.. I decided right then, that I'd have one some day...

hpmctorque

Interesting, since the 320i always appealed to me more than the 2002 too, I've never seen that acknowledged, however. So, Shifty, the 320i's reputation was tarnished due to improper pricing and marketing, more than product mistakes.

Now, I know the 320i wasn't very reliable, and, thus, was high maintenance. However, couldn't the same be said of the 2002?

Mr_Shiftright

I think both models had their definite weaknesses, sure. You'll sometimes see a 2002 with a 320 engine and transmission and differential, and other mods done to them.

The 320 was certainly more comfortable than a 2002. Of course, the 320 had to deal with the dreadful late 70s--early 80s, when automakers were hacking together all kinds of electro-mechanical emissions systems to deal with new US regulations. This was an era before truly efficient computerized engine management, and so you got all kinds of EGR issues, catalytic overheating, stalling problems, yo name it. At least the 320i got rid of carburetors, which most 2002s still had to the very end.

By 1976, the 2002 was a bit of a slug. A chrome-bumpered early 2002 with 320 drivetrain, Recaros and a handling package and better wheels would be a nice package.

magnette

Talking about hoarding magazines...

sevenfeet0

This wasn't in the last few days but this past summer my Cadillac dealer had a 1928 Cadillac Sport Phaeton back in for service (seriously). The L-head straight 8 car had one owner family and was a runner (though it arrived on a truck). Nobody knew the exact model (outside of the year) until I looked it up for them. After a few tweaks to keep it from overheating and to check all available systems, the car was detailed and sent back home (on its own power).

I even have pictures I can post.

boomchek

Wow, are they all car mags or other types too?

magnette

All Motor or Autocar - Motor to 1988 or so, then they merged with Autocar and I have that every week since... Motor is complete back to mid 1971, and then about 75% of the sixties, 60% of the fifties, and a little less than half the 1946/49 period... This is the former pantry in our house. Also buy "Thoroughbred & Classic", "Classic & Sportscar" and "the Automobile", but they are monthly, so they don't take up so much room... They are in a different corner (spare bedroom)

boomchek

Nice. All of mine are in storage.

Can't wait to put them on normal shelves once I have a house with garage.

magnette

With this many magazines, one problem is the weight. The reason I used the ground floor pantry - basically a walk-in cupboard off what would have been the dining room - is that it has a solid floor, rather than the suspended timber through all the other main rooms. And all the shelving - which is higher than it looks as it goes well above eight feet - is really heavy wood, securely fastened both to the floor and to the brick wall, which is the side wall of the house. If I tried to do something similar upstairs with all this lot I would probably cause a structural problem and then I'd be living in the pantry, too....The monthly magazines, and the last few years of Autocar, which has now outgrown this space are upstairs, but each bookcase is smaller and no two are supported on the same joists.

fintail

Today I spotted a Sunbeam Alpine and 3 BMW sharks - 2 of them were badged 635CSi and the other I couldn't see. All of them were in very nice condition. I also went to a yard sale at the house of a local guy who has a period Lorinser W126 - a less than awesome kind of purply dark blue with blackout trim, body color lacy wheels, and bumper/side skirts. Very 80s.

All of those magazines remind me of the shelves at Wilkinsons.

boomchek

I told the Wilkinson owners that I'm planningon buying up their store, one item at a time. :P

If I'd be a multimillionarie, I probably would buy everything they have

fintail

You could just change the name to "Boomchek's" :shades:

If I came into a fortune I would have a car-related business, maybe some kind of restoration center for old MB, especially fintails and other sedans, and weirdos like period tuned cars. But, I would probably locate it in Europe...maybe open an NA branch if it took off.

hpmctorque

You'd have lower labor costs and less competition if you established such a business in the U.S. rather than Europe. Maybe you're on to something, fintail; rebuild and sell in the U.S., and export to Europe.

The car rebuilding business is very fragmented. I'm thinking that maybe a good business case could be made regarding rebuilding certain luxury brand models in a central facility, on a much larger scale than is currently being done. The business plan would be to gain a competitive advantage by improving quality and consistency, while reducing costs, through economies of scale.

fintail

One could probably do just as good re: labor costs if I was able to assemble a crew from CZR or Poland or someplace, too. I am not concerned about that however, I would never expect to actually make money. The selling would have to be concentrated on the continent though, where good fintails are easily worth twice what they are in NA. and even then, this would be a venture where breaking even in the long run is all you can hope for. But, NA would certainly be a good place to find parts and cars.

This would be something I would never seriously attempt unless I already had a fortune and could afford to run a venture with no profit. I won't pretend it is a good chance for an investment, it would just be fun and I think it would develop a following. It would be like a MB Classic Center, but for the less glamorous models (although they've had their own 20K Euro fintails too). It doesn't have much competition now, because there's not much of a way for any return on investment.

A few British firms have found some success rebuilding Mark 2 Jags in relatively decent volumes.

hpmctorque

I understand that your goal would be centered around the enjoyment of being around the cars you love, while preserving them. I was thinking along the lines of a for profit business that focused on the high value retention models of a limited number of brands, such as MB, BMW, Porsche and Jaguar. Not all of these, but two or, maximum, three.

Mr_Shiftright

I think that might work if you modernized the cars---many of those Mk2 Jags have 5-speeds, extra cooling and handling packages, radial tires, AC, fuel injection, etc. On the outside they look perfectly stock.

hpmctorque

Yes, definitely, go for it. Improve driveability, reliability, safety, comfort, value and marketability wherever it's economically justibiable to do so.

I don't really know whether a large auto restoration business, such as we're discussing, would be viable, but it would be an interesting business case study for a B-school student.

Mr_Shiftright

The problem with this business model is that as you buy up these old cars, you get the best ones first, and after that you have to buy worse and worse cars---thereby escalating your costs while producing the same end product.

Also you're going to have to charge a pretty hefty price, and no doubt offer a warranty of some sort. The rub here is that you can't "half-restore" the car. If you paint it and upholster it, well -- all the chrome, trim and glass has to look good too.

It's possible that a restored Fintail could run $75,000.

Perhaps you'd have to pick a car/model that is more apt to open up people's checkbooks. Like 300TD wagons for instance, or maybe 280 high grille 6 cylinder coupes.

hpmctorque

Yeah, you raise enough valid points to cast serious doubt on the profit potential of such a plan, even if it's done on a larger scale than anything now being done.

If it were a brilliant idea, chances are that someone would already be doing it. Of course, there are lots of sound business ideas that aren't currently being executed, but this one may be too obvious.

hpmctorque

Yeah, you raise enough valid points to cast serious doubt on the profit potential of such a plan, even if it's done on a larger scale than anything now being done.

If it were a brilliant idea, chances are that someone would already be doing it. Of course, there are lots of sound business ideas that aren't currently being executed, but this one may be too obvious.

fintail

Yeah, I think even rebuilding the popular models to new specs would never make a good business case. The parts are just too expensive, and there are only so many cars to build. I think the Jag sedans were a special case as those cars are so well regarded, especially in the UK.

Putting modern mechanicals in a fintail or W108/109 could make some cool cars - but they'd still lack a lot of modern safety and tech, and I don't know how many people would pay huge money for it. Would someone pay that kind of money for a somewhat odd sedan with roll up windows, manual locks, and an AM-FM radio? I was thinking a fintail or 108 would be pretty quick with a modern MB V6, as they are light cars. They'd be even better with even a non-AMG V8 (I don't know if the structure of the car could hold up to the tuned engines), or a modern 6cyl diesel. Maybe if I had this firm which preserved and restored these cars, it could make a few franken-cars with modern engines, as status items and for show.