I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

hpmctorque

This reminds me of the time, about ten years ago, when I was a passenger in a Golf on an Italian autostrada. We were going 140-150 kph in the rain, and I remarked that the car seemed very well planted, which it did. That led to other positive comments about the Golf among the three passengers, including me, and the driver, who had chosen the Golf over the equivalent Fiat because he felt that VW quality was superior to Fiat's. He may have been right on that. To kind of balance the discussion, I mentioned that in the U.S., compact Hondas and Toyotas generally cost less than the Golf. The driver's response was, "well, you've got to pay for quality." It was a "you get what you pay for" type of response. Yeah, sure.

I must say, though, that I much prefer the driving feel of the Rabbit/Golf over the Corolla, and even the Civic. I recently rented a Corolla, and the driving experience confirmed what the auto writers say about the numb steering.

Mr_Shiftright

Some people fall off roofs and land on mattresses, too, but that doesn't mean it's going to work for most of us.

I'm a big fan of "hard data" and the hard data says that if you buy a used Jetta, you are pretty much asking for trouble.

My brother's Jetta has been pretty good, too, but he a) bought it new; b) took meticulous care of it c) drove it 7500 miles a year; d) traded it in after 4 years.

Go cruise the Edmunds Jetta forums. You'll come out bleeding from the ears. :surprise:

fintail

I'm in the land of MB right now....taking a rest after a long few days.

Everything I see is obscure compared to where I live, so no point listing it all. You name it, I've seen it...even my favorite Euro car....the Dacia Logan :shades: Japanese cars can't be more than 15% of the market here...not many around. I've only seen a couple Hyunkias too. Only one Lexus, a mid 90s GS that looked US spec...maybe a serviceman import.

No junkers on the roads here, with strict inspections.

Oldest cars were a Ford Turnier GT ca.1970 and a MB W114. Lots of W201 and W124 still around, and have seen a few W126 and W123 too. Only one or two pre-1990 BMW. Also have seen an old Mini and lots of Mk 2 Golfs still on the road. Maybe they were better made than the NA models.

Also a few odd Americans, probably old serviceman vehicles - ancient Astro Van, ca. 2000 Firebird convertible, Dodge Avenger, modern Mustang, and some junk that was sold here new - a couple PT Cruisers, Neon. No big SUVs, its nice! The odd X5/ML/Cayenne is as big as it gets.

I've visited a couple museums, which of course had amazing vehicles and were worth the trip just to see them. More on that another time.

And today's oddity, also probably the closest thing I have seen to a clunker, because of the rust on the lower doors:

andys120

I assume it's the Fiat Uno that had rust showing; well it is a Fiat.

I forgot the name of that VW behind it; Sharan?

stickguy

a pair of nicely restored but less common 64-65ish Chevys today (the weather was nice here).

1st, a sharp chevy II nova, with cragers of come kind. Looked like it was lowered slightly, but I only saw it in passing.

Later, a very clean ElCamino. That, I liked but I have always had a fondness for them.

boomchek

I don't think that's a Fiat Uno, although the shape is similar, it's a Lancia Y10.

The VW is actually a VW Polo.

The Sharan is VW's minivan.

fintail

Exactly, back when the Lancia name was being dragged through the mud. I have seen several other Lancias, but that one is probably the oddest and rarest...and maybe the worst.

I saw an 80s Opel Ascona convertible today, those can't be common anymore. Also got to tour a certain tuner in Affalterbach who has some unusual machines on hand :shades:

boomchek

Hope you took pictures of those AMGs :shades:

fintail

I even got a pic of a test mule/prototype cruising around :shades:

There were 2 SLS on hand - one driving around, and every other AMG one can imagine.

I got to drive an obscure (in NA) car too. I rented a car for the day as the public transport options to that area are time consuming, and I am on holiday. I reserved a nornal automatic sedan - class said 1er or Mondeo. They tried to give me a manual little Citroen, but I didn't want that hassle...so I got a W212 E200 diesel, cloth interior etc. Kind of a slow thing, but it cruises right along once you get to speed, and it is assembled tightly.

Oh yeah, if you ever wind up in Stuttgart, you have to check out this big toy store downtown. One whole floor devoted to transportation toys - the HO cars alone will amaze you.

boomchek

Nice, so is this your rental just for one day or for the whole trip?

I wouldn't wanna go to that toy store, I'd want to buy up everything!

What the name of it by the way?

fintail

I've already returned the car. I will have another rental on Friday, for 9 days. It's a higher reserved group, so it should be a 6 cyl car, hopefully diesel.

Looks like the toy store has a website....one could spend a fortune there, no doubt. I bought a little HO scale fintail, I controlled myself.

boomchek

Cool stuff! A child's and car buff's dream!

fintail

The model railroading floor was also very impressive.

Today I have seen a few cars which must be odd here - a Triumph Spitfire, a Volvo 544, and a mid 90s Chrysler LHS, alll in downtown Munich. At a Hauptbahnhof taxi stand I also saw 4 generations of E-class doing duty as taxis - W124, W210, W211, and W212. I have seen a few W212 taxis, and I saw three W124 taxis today. Must be a sentimental attachment to keep a car which has been out of production for 15 years (and the ones I saw were all pre-94 models) in service as a taxi.

tjc78

A mid 90s Olds Custom Cruiser wagon on the NJ turnpike this morning. Obviously related to the Roadmaster/Caprice at the time by the look. I don't even remember those, must have been a very low production run.

fintail

Today in Munich - ancient Fiat 500, 65 Chevelle parked under an overpass, Dodge Magnum taxi, Jaguar XJ6 taxi, Hauptbahhof taxi stand with a lineup of W123-W124-W210-W211 taxis - yes, I saw a W123 taxi still in service, the old man driver had it in very nice condition too. In Munich-Sendling I saw a late 90s Eldorado and a ca. 2000 Firebird. At Neuschwanstein I saw a 65 Mustang, and near Oberammergau I saw a Subaru SVX.

So few Japanese cars here. I have seen exactly 2 Lexus in the past 5 days, and 3 or 4 Prius, that's it. Most Toyotas and Nissans are the smallest models. I guess in a market that allows cheaper very efficient diesel cars, hybrids are kind of superfluous.

imidazol97

>So few Japanese cars here.

Is it the pricing? Is there an import tax on Far Eastern imports?

boomchek

Wow, W123 taxi. You could safely say it has about 500,000kms on it
(300k+ miles?)

I think there are few small [non-permissible content removed] cars there because their domestics (small euro cars) are efficient and competitive unlike ours in NA. Plus yes, I heard they're pricey.

boomchek

a new Aston Martin of some sortsd, and a Lotus Esprit. The Lotus looked to be early 90s model (rounded bumpers, but no V8).

fintail

There's no bargain pricing, and I think a big part of it is European small cars are pretty good, and they tend to be more involving to drive than their Asian counterparts. A lot of people here seem to value driving dynamics, a trait that European makers almost monopolize. If you're paying $6+/gallon for gas, you better enjoy the ride :shades:

I have seen a few larger Japanese cars - I saw a worn looking first-gen Mazda 929 in old city Munich yesterday, and I have seen a few of the cool Euro market Accord wagons, something that should exist instead of the lame crossovers that are also far from common here.

jlbl

There's no bargain pricing

And there is no special taxes penalizing Asian cars in the EU (the European Union) territory. Fintail explains it very well when saying that European small cars are pretty good and fuel efficient equipped with their diesel engines.

I repeat, there is no bargain prices. Just popular fancy.

Regards,
Jose

texases

"I have seen a few of the cool Euro market Accord wagons, something that should exist instead of the lame crossovers that are also far from common here. "

Good news

fintail

Nice. Every one I have seen here has been a diesel, which probably won't make it to NA. The useless trophy wives will all prefer Acura's X6 ripoff too, so the sportwagon will have to find a special niche market.

Diesel works so well here...I find myself wanting to go that route more and more.

boomchek

Surprise surprise. Did Honda's Crosstour disgust enough Honda lovers that they had to bring in a normal euro product to counteract the criticism?

stickguy

that I like (beak aside). I do agree that a Honda variant would be even nicer.

How about a civic version? That could really be useful!

oldcem

While on a business trip last week, I passed through Wheeling, WV, on I 70. I passed a little old lady motoring along in a showroom condition late 40's model Hudson. Looked like a Wasp. She was running about 5 over the speed limit, and, I had a hard time catching up to the car in traffic to get a look at it.

Regards:
Oldengineer

Mr_Shiftright

Hudsons of that era had engines with very good torque. Hudsons dominated racing in the early days of stock car racing and those loony Mexican car races.

fintail

Today's oddities - MB W221 S-class taxi x2 (!!), current style A8 taxi, pre-84 Opel Kadett, Caddy SRX driven by the same demographic as who drives them in the US, a late model Lexus GS, an early IS, and an ancient LS (that makes a total of 5 Lexus seen in Germany) BMW E23 Baur cabrio, BMW E21 in mint condition, and of course many important cars at the BMW museum.

And parked on a side street this morning, this French-registered example of an early hot hatch:

boomchek

Neat lil car. I think I saw one for sale in vancouver (as it meets the 15 year old import laws). I think this one has been parked there for a while judging by the semi flat tires.

I see a late 90s Mazda 626 hatch behind it, an Audi 90 in front and a Mazda MX-3 in front. Cool

fintail

Mazda seems to be on equal footing with the other Japanese here. I saw an 86-89 323 yesterday, I think, and I have seen a few 3s and 6s. With the strict inspections here, pre-1990 cars are a lot less common than in the Pacific nothwest. I have noticed that MB of that timeframe seem to outnumber similar era BMW by maybe 5:1...but it could partly be just a production volume issue,.

I've seen a few Suzuki Swift, those seem like neat little cars. I also saw a Jimny today, and a Ssangyong Rodius taxi...putrid looking thing.

So far I have noticed plates from Austria, Switzerland, France, England, Netherlands, Sweden (I think), Monaco, CZR, and Slovakia.

oldcem

If I remember right they had a 300 cube flathead 6 , and, offered twin carbs as well. I knew that they were very successful at racing until dethroned by Oldsmobile with their new Rocket V8.

Regards:
Oldengineer

fintail

A little something for everyone, viewed from my hotel window this morning

One of my favorite oddballs in this shot

And my rental car...not a MB, sadly....but not exactly a pile of crap either :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

Let us know when the check engine light comes on. :P

Mr_Shiftright

Yes the mighty Olds Rocket V8. Our first truly modern V-8 engine.

It is interesting, though, that I still see Hudsons on the vintage race circuit, but rarely an Olds. I do believe I saw a Mexican road race replica a few years back.

boomchek

Looks like you got the new 5 series,correction, 7 series didn't you? Nice!

The Fiat Multipla is the yellow oddball you mention. What a peice of work of a car.

Another Mazda MX-3 in the pic too.

fintail

Yep, new style 7er with about 7K miles on it. And to be obscure...it's a 730d. It's loaded too - keyless start, heads up, lane departure, parking aid, side and rear shades, adaptive lights, and no doubt some things I haven't discovered yet. And of course, iDrive is more fun in German. I could switch it over, but I like a challenge. I am getting this car for about $80/day...no complaints here.

I do like the seats in the car, with the extension for thighs for taller people. It's a very comfortable car, albeit a bit large for some city areas here. And on today's jaunt, I think it got about 30mpg. Only drawback is that it is on winter tires, max speed 210kmh. It gets up there without a problem. After an hour or so on the autobahn, you really become desensitized to speed.

No check engine lights either :P

I have seen a few of those Mazdas here...I remember they were popular in Van back in the mid 90s too, under a different name than the US model which never caught on. I haven't seen many Multiplas, thats the only original style one I have noticed.

Mr_Shiftright

What are you paying for fuel?

fintail

I think diesel works out to around $6.35-6.40 USD/gallon right now, gasoline is about 15% more.

Mr_Shiftright

And think of how different OUR cars would be if we paid that?

Who says that the price of a gallon doesn't appreciably affect car design?

At $6.50 a gallon, all the "obscure" cars in this topic would be American full-size SUVs I betcha.

oldcem

That does seem odd. I ran across a gentleman locally who has a restored show room condition 49 Olds V8 Sedanette (fastback). I was looking at a 57 Olds Super 88 that he had for sale. I just didn't like the 57 enough to invest in it. I like the earlier ones.

Regards:
Oldengineer

euphonium

good decision

Mr_Shiftright

The only '57 American car that ever became a star was the Chevy. All the rest are also-rans. Not to say they aren't worth money, but they never became "iconic".

kyfdx

Very nice!

Just to be rude.... what the heck is the daily rental charge on that buggy? :surprise:

kyfdx

Mid-'90s, I'm guessing..

It was in almost perfect shape.. They don't make a lot of sporty coupes like that, any more.. I always like the look of those (and the Mitsu..).

Mr_Shiftright

Didn't he say $80 bucks a day? Or was it 80 Euros?

fintail

It's about $80 day, which includes lowish-deductible insurance, as I don't think Amex would cover something that pricey - sticker on it would be around 85K Euros I think. I do have it for over a week, which lowers the rate...but what the hell, you only live once. I barely drove it today, as I am near a U-bahn and parking is tough where I visited...but tomorrow I probably have a good 5-6 hours of driving ahead.

And yeah, make gas that expensive, and the scene changes. I know more than half of the new cars here are diesel. I've only seen one example each of an Exploder, Trailblazer, and Durango - probably servicemen vehicles or bought from military people. Other than that, a scattered Euro or Japanese SUV, but not many. People here do it the right way - if they need to haul people or things, they buy a wagon or a small van. No 4x4 ego to be found, but tons of wagons and little mpvs.

The gas price is both from taxes and the worthless dollar. Those taxes pay for some amazing roads, makes where I live look like Beirut. It's a tradeoff. I can't say I think the quality of life in places I have experienced in the US is any better than here. Some things do seem cheaper - non-restaurant food especially.

Today I saw a few oddities...a mid 60s Chevy truck, a TR6, a late 80s Escort convertible, white with white wheels- very 80s, and about a million MB W124 and W201...those things really survived.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's a car you don't see everyday. It only cost the previous owner about $6 a mile to drive:

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=MA-GT-40629

oregonboy

A rebadged Mitsubishi: Twin-Stick

And a cool old pickup: Studebaker

:shades:

toomanyfumes

When I was a teenager a girlfriend had a twin-stick Mitsubishi just like that. In first gear/low range it would smoke the tires pretty good. :shades:

oldcem

Your absolutely right. The 57 I looked at probably needed $10 - 15 K worth of work to get it in shape. I'm not sure it would bring $20K + nowadays, if I went to resell it. It's just not a real attactive car to me - huge size and loaded with chrome. My Grandfather had a 55 with the white over blue paint scheme that I frequently drove, and, I loved that car.

Regards:
Oldengineer

andre1969

I think the main thing I didn't like about the '57 Oldsmobiles was that 3-piece rear window that they used. It gave the car sort of a clunky, old-fashioned look. Buick Specials and Centurys used the same roof, but I think the Buick somehow managed to pull it off a bit better. Maybe the larger rear wheel openings, and bolder fins helped?