Options

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

13523533553573581306

Comments

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,725
    every month, my company raffles off a spot in the executive parking area.
    this month i 'won' the spot.
    i never really cared if i won because i get to work so early i pretty much get the pick of the regular lot.
    anyways, i shined up the fusion and parked in the spot, since it was going to be parked next to a row of bmw's, merc's and lexus, etc.
    i just happened to see out the window where my car was parked, a couple of the execs taking a second look at it.
    so now i am on a mission to have the cleanest car in the row every day for the month.
    the weather has been good and every couple of days i use some quick detailer and dress the tires.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Thought this was interesting...window sticker on a nice W126 among the modern classics for sale at the MB museum

    And speaking of obscure cars...my E55 feels like a compact after driving that barge of a 7-series for a couple thousand miles.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Besides 'barge-like', what else did you think of the 7er?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Great seats, really fantastic. The gadgetry is pretty easy to manage now...I got along just fine in German, and I am not fluent. Excellent huge nav system, integrated with the heads up display...something I now can't believe isn't more common. Cruised at the tire-limited 210km/h vmax without a complaint. Very nice car.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Good to hear about the gadgets, sounds like iDrive is now workable. I'm waiting to see the new 5er.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I saw an old Chevy Citation parked today, it was rather worn out looking with some dents, dings and paint badly pitted in the front. Cars like this are not unusual in Southern AZ but this one wore a current Minnesota plate so this car has likely survived some rust-out conditions but the only rust I saw was surface rust.

    I noticed one odd thing. The badges on the front fenders read Citation II.
    Anybody know what that's about? Aside from the early 80s X-Car the only other Citation I know about was the Edsel. :confuse:

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    1984 and 1985 had the Citation II.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    "I saw an old Chevy Citation parked today, it was rather worn out looking with some dents, dings and paint badly pitted in the front."

    A near-mint example!
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I remember the Citation, critically acclaimed at it's introduction;
    best selling car, year one:1980,
    breakdowns and recalls, gone by 1986.

    The definitive case of "not ready for prime time", customers as beta-testers, GM's hubris.

    Oh, how the mighty have fallen....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Is that a Voison? That's a lot of money on that trailer
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,725
    that W126 even has celebrity provenance - Steffi Graff the tennis player.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Tatra T77 - what many see as the really pure one, the early car.

    The place had a couple dozen cars on those racks, which would apparently rotate and present each car...but I didn't see it happen.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    The Steffi Graf reference is just something about 1988 - the car wasn't owned by her. Although for the money, it should have been owned by Boris Becker, at least.

    Germany loves the W126 though....I bought a copy of "Oldtimer Markt", which hails itself as "Europe's largest magazine for classic cars" - cover story is the 30th birthday of the W126, with a large article inside.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yeah, GM pulled that Citation II name game in an attempt to fool the buying public into believing the car was new and much improved. And, to its credit, the cars were much improved. By 1983, the 4-cyl version was rated "average" by CR, which is about as nice as they would get with a domestic car in those days.

    But, alas, the damage had been done, and the car just couldn't shake the bad rap it received from the earlier models...particularly 1980, which managed to break two records: sales and recalls. And, as the 1980's wore on, they really didn't need the Citation anymore, as they had the Celebrity, which was the same basic car, but at least gave you the illusion of a bigger, better-trimmed car.

    And, in retrospect, the FWD X-body did enjoy a 6 model year run, while the A-body spinoffs lasted through 1996. So despite its failings, it did have some staying power.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,725
    my eyes aren't as good as they used to be. :sick:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,873
    I ordered a new Celebrity Eurosport 2-door in May '85, solid plum color, aluminum wheels, bucket seats, 2.8 MFI, and was forced to order the new 4-speed automatic. That was a mistake! Other than that, the car looked and drove nicely. I had tried to option it out like a 6000STE, mechanically.

    I remember being very tempted by a new '85 Citation II X-11 my dealer had in inventory. Same basic car as the Celebrity but much less expensive. You could even get a stick with the 2.8 MFI if I remember correctly. Back then, when I'd trade every three years or so, I worried about resale value more, so I went for the Celebrity. This was after it had been announced already that the Citation was going away. But even then, by the '85 model I wasn't worried about problems.

    Bill
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >name game in an attempt to fool tell the buying public

    I'd rather think of it as the Citation II name was to reassure the people that problems were recognized and had been fixed. :blush:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nice car but about double what it's worth. To say nothing of the senselessness of running a 17 day auction.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    Looks like a beautiful car.

    Odd that the selling agent who allegedly gets them by buying them from clients for his annuity sales business (?) has Indiana license plate in the rear window in one shot. Clients usually would have a car registered in Delaware...

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I have a feeling Lemko would look at that '89 Eldorado as one of the cars that helped kill Cadillac's reputation. Although to be fair, that is a very nice example. Plus, by 1989 they were putting in the more reliable, more powerful 4.9 V-8.

    Unfortunately, these things were sort of the right car at the wrong time. They were designed in an era where fuel prices were skyrocketing and the stuff was getting scarce, and CAFE and the EPA were breathing down GM's neck. However, by the time they were launched in 1986, fuel was cheap again and free-flowing, and nobody really cared about fuel economy. Another problem, more than likely, is that GM launched its N-body Grand Am/Calais/Somerset Regal coupes in 1985, and the downsized '86 Eldo/Toro/Riv just looked too similar, in style and size.

    Also, once word went out that these things were downsizing, people ran out and made sure to buy an '85 before that happened. That probably took a lot of people out of the market artificially, by pulling sales forward, of people who would have normally bought in 1986 or later.

    I wonder how those downsized Eldorados handled? I've never driven one so I don't know, but GM sometimes has a habit of making smaller cars handle and ride like bigger vehicles. That can be good for a smooth ride and comfort, but not always for handling. I remember the first time I drove my grandmother's cousin's '89 Coupe DeVille, my first thought was, why the hell make it so small if it's going to still feel so cumbersome?! But, I guess a lot of people still wanted that.

    I kinda liked the downsized '86 Olds Toronado. Those things were cool looking, especially in black.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,973
    Nice car but about double what it's worth

    Reminds me of that insanely priced still in wrapper Brougham I posted in the project cars forum. At least you could drive this one occasionally and not kill the value. I could easily see some Caddy fanatic paying 10K for this car. There certainly aren't many of those around.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, but it's one of those god-awful ridiculously shrunken 1986-91 models that was barely distinguishable from a Olds Calais. If Cadillac kept building cars like it, I guarantee you I'd be driving a Mercedes or Lexus today. Now, if that car was a Brougham...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    that's the rub with paying a super-premium for some time-warp car that is preserved with ultra-low mileage. If you don't drive it, all you have is some 80's expression of a Cadillac in downsized distress that you can stare at all day in your garage. You aren't going to be gathering huge crowds at an auto show. If you drive it, well good on ya' for that, but then of course as the miles add up and the chips and dings appear, your "investment" goes down the drain. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, with well-preserved 80s domestic cars.

    There are 75 year old American cars that are STILL not worth $15,000. Unless you are planning to operate your own eccentric museum of objects that most people are benignly apathetic about, then you'd be kinda crazy to pay $15K for a car like that.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I found two Ebay Alfas that you'd probably like:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alfa-Romeo-GOLD-3-0-WONDERFUL-MILANO-EVERTHING-WO- RKS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3efa2873daQQitemZ270484927450QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTru- cks

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alfa-Romeo-Spider-1988-Alfa-Romeo-Spider-Veloce-E- xcellent-Original-Car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4a9c2014b3QQitemZ320446928051QQ- ptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

    I know you owned an '88 Spider at one point but the one in the ad appears to be priced a little too high, relative to the mileage. I'd guess it'd be overdue for a valve job as well. I also included the Milano because you like those models as well, provided that the issues have been well-sorted.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Shoot, I'd bid on that Milano right now if it were in my area. The seller said all the right things when it comes to an Alfa.

    The 88 Spider is already over-bid. If it hasn't had cylinder head work yet, it will soon---mushrooming valve seats and head gasket oil leaks are common ailments at about 100K miles. Also the sales hype makes me want to gag, but that's my problem.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Was this also in Germany?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Cool video. Sometimes I wish I lived in that era - older and simpler times.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    That's at the Audi museum - they have period rally displays featuring many makes.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Simpler times - spray painting cars without wearing a mask :surprise:
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I was thinking about that, but maybe he was just spraying it with water to clean it?

    Weren't cars dipped in a paint bath for their paint jobs even back then?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    It sure looked like paint to me, the guy was even wearing a cap and a protective suit. I suspect back in the day when 95% of people smoked, they didn't worry about a few paint fumes :shades:

    I am not sure how they painted the cars back then...I should have taken a normal MB factory tour, and I could have asked all kinds of weird questions about cars 50 years ago.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,725
    'fin.
    that video was great.
    first off, the soundtrack reminded me of something from 'our man flint'.
    search for the above on msn.
    next, the level of automation was amazing.
    thanks for posting it. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    for just $5.5M, you, too can have (allegedly) the first production Mustang. And it even comes with no heater and no seatbelts. Insane:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260504865261
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Huh, very interesting.

    I guess if so much money is at stake it's possible to try and fake all the documents.

    I'm not a Mustang expert nor did I read the whole story, but is it a coincidence that the first one off the assemble line just happened to survive with all the supporting documents, especially after it was originally sold to "joe public"

    Hmmm, even if I had all the money in the world and was a Mustang collector, I wouldn't pay more than a million for it.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    All in all, it still seems like a rather unremarkable car with only a 260 V-8. It's not like it's a Bugatti Royale or something like that.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What a convoluted, triple-spun, tortured attempt to prove the unprovable.

    Near as I can tell, the "proof" is that no lower VIN has surfaced.

    So what have you got?

    You have the oldest SURVIVING Mustang, you don't have the first one.

    Only a chump would bid on this car, IMO.

    What happens when a lower VIN surfaces? You have a *very* expensive ordinary Mustang, is what happens.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....maybe a slight premium for the 'oldest' or 'first', but their BIN price is literally 200 times as much as this car would be otherwise, for nothing more than a VIN number and some documents. :confuse:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's not even the "oldest", it's the "oldest known as of Nov 19, 2009". That's all you got with that car.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,973
    Maybe I'm nuts... but I have a hard time believing the first Mustang was white over blue. I have no facts here, I just think the first one would have been red. Who knows, what I find funny is that the ad isn't an auction just an asking price of 5.5M. I would think someone with more money than brains would bid it up close to a million, but 5.5 :confuse:

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hey, he's exercising his First Amendment Rights on eBay. Let him put 10 million, who cares?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    I have a hard time believing that the first Mustang produced in regular production wasn't well documented in the media at the time in pictures and news stories. It would be interesting to see what color they say the "first" regular production vehicle was.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    According to this article, the first production Mustang is in a Ford museum.

    The First Mustang
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    Good find. Thanks for posting.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I saw a Fiat 850 Sport Spider motoring along top-down (nice day- high 70s), an older guy at the wheel. It looked to be a very good #2 condition, a nice Lemon Yellow. It was a post-' 68 car with side markers.

    Oddly this was the second 850 Spider I've seen this year, the other was a freshly painted body shell.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,895
    An 850? Are you sure it wasn't just coasting, downhill? :surprise:

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Very interesting. So not only is the auction car not the 1st Mustang, it's not even the first Mustang privately sold, as the guy claims.

    He's got nothin' in my book but a very early serial number car.

    Actually I think he's cruisin' for a law suit.
This discussion has been closed.