I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

explorerx4

every month, my company raffles off a spot in the executive parking area.
this month i 'won' the spot.
i never really cared if i won because i get to work so early i pretty much get the pick of the regular lot.
anyways, i shined up the fusion and parked in the spot, since it was going to be parked next to a row of bmw's, merc's and lexus, etc.
i just happened to see out the window where my car was parked, a couple of the execs taking a second look at it.
so now i am on a mission to have the cleanest car in the row every day for the month.
the weather has been good and every couple of days i use some quick detailer and dress the tires.

fintail

Thought this was interesting...window sticker on a nice W126 among the modern classics for sale at the MB museum

And speaking of obscure cars...my E55 feels like a compact after driving that barge of a 7-series for a couple thousand miles.

texases

Besides 'barge-like', what else did you think of the 7er?

fintail

Great seats, really fantastic. The gadgetry is pretty easy to manage now...I got along just fine in German, and I am not fluent. Excellent huge nav system, integrated with the heads up display...something I now can't believe isn't more common. Cruised at the tire-limited 210km/h vmax without a complaint. Very nice car.

texases

Good to hear about the gadgets, sounds like iDrive is now workable. I'm waiting to see the new 5er.

andys120

I saw an old Chevy Citation parked today, it was rather worn out looking with some dents, dings and paint badly pitted in the front. Cars like this are not unusual in Southern AZ but this one wore a current Minnesota plate so this car has likely survived some rust-out conditions but the only rust I saw was surface rust.

I noticed one odd thing. The badges on the front fenders read Citation II.
Anybody know what that's about? Aside from the early 80s X-Car the only other Citation I know about was the Edsel. :confuse:

fintail

Didn't expect to find this fantastic machine in Luzern, and what's above it isn't exactly a heap either

imidazol97

1984 and 1985 had the Citation II.

texases

"I saw an old Chevy Citation parked today, it was rather worn out looking with some dents, dings and paint badly pitted in the front."

A near-mint example!

oregonboy

I remember the Citation, critically acclaimed at it's introduction;
best selling car, year one:1980,
breakdowns and recalls, gone by 1986.

The definitive case of "not ready for prime time", customers as beta-testers, GM's hubris.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen....

Mr_Shiftright

Is that a Voison? That's a lot of money on that trailer

explorerx4

that W126 even has celebrity provenance - Steffi Graff the tennis player.

fintail

Tatra T77 - what many see as the really pure one, the early car.

The place had a couple dozen cars on those racks, which would apparently rotate and present each car...but I didn't see it happen.

fintail

The Steffi Graf reference is just something about 1988 - the car wasn't owned by her. Although for the money, it should have been owned by Boris Becker, at least.

Germany loves the W126 though....I bought a copy of "Oldtimer Markt", which hails itself as "Europe's largest magazine for classic cars" - cover story is the 30th birthday of the W126, with a large article inside.

andre1969

Yeah, GM pulled that Citation II name game in an attempt to fool the buying public into believing the car was new and much improved. And, to its credit, the cars were much improved. By 1983, the 4-cyl version was rated "average" by CR, which is about as nice as they would get with a domestic car in those days.

But, alas, the damage had been done, and the car just couldn't shake the bad rap it received from the earlier models...particularly 1980, which managed to break two records: sales and recalls. And, as the 1980's wore on, they really didn't need the Citation anymore, as they had the Celebrity, which was the same basic car, but at least gave you the illusion of a bigger, better-trimmed car.

And, in retrospect, the FWD X-body did enjoy a 6 model year run, while the A-body spinoffs lasted through 1996. So despite its failings, it did have some staying power.

fintail

Ready for winter driving conditions

explorerx4

my eyes aren't as good as they used to be. :sick:

uplanderguy

I ordered a new Celebrity Eurosport 2-door in May '85, solid plum color, aluminum wheels, bucket seats, 2.8 MFI, and was forced to order the new 4-speed automatic. That was a mistake! Other than that, the car looked and drove nicely. I had tried to option it out like a 6000STE, mechanically.

I remember being very tempted by a new '85 Citation II X-11 my dealer had in inventory. Same basic car as the Celebrity but much less expensive. You could even get a stick with the 2.8 MFI if I remember correctly. Back then, when I'd trade every three years or so, I worried about resale value more, so I went for the Celebrity. This was after it had been announced already that the Citation was going away. But even then, by the '85 model I wasn't worried about problems.

Bill

imidazol97

>name game in an attempt to fool tell the buying public

I'd rather think of it as the Citation II name was to reassure the people that problems were recognized and had been fixed.

jrosasmc

Have I got a car for you:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Eldorado-BIARRITZ-BIARRITZ-1-OWNER-20-50- 0-ACTUAL-MILES-NONE-NICER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca756c818QQitemZ2605055201- 52QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

It's nice, it's got low miles, and best of all - it's a Cadillac so it's right up your alley!

Mr_Shiftright

Nice car but about double what it's worth. To say nothing of the senselessness of running a 17 day auction.

imidazol97

Looks like a beautiful car.

Odd that the selling agent who allegedly gets them by buying them from clients for his annuity sales business (?) has Indiana license plate in the rear window in one shot. Clients usually would have a car registered in Delaware...

andre1969

I have a feeling Lemko would look at that '89 Eldorado as one of the cars that helped kill Cadillac's reputation. Although to be fair, that is a very nice example. Plus, by 1989 they were putting in the more reliable, more powerful 4.9 V-8.

Unfortunately, these things were sort of the right car at the wrong time. They were designed in an era where fuel prices were skyrocketing and the stuff was getting scarce, and CAFE and the EPA were breathing down GM's neck. However, by the time they were launched in 1986, fuel was cheap again and free-flowing, and nobody really cared about fuel economy. Another problem, more than likely, is that GM launched its N-body Grand Am/Calais/Somerset Regal coupes in 1985, and the downsized '86 Eldo/Toro/Riv just looked too similar, in style and size.

Also, once word went out that these things were downsizing, people ran out and made sure to buy an '85 before that happened. That probably took a lot of people out of the market artificially, by pulling sales forward, of people who would have normally bought in 1986 or later.

I wonder how those downsized Eldorados handled? I've never driven one so I don't know, but GM sometimes has a habit of making smaller cars handle and ride like bigger vehicles. That can be good for a smooth ride and comfort, but not always for handling. I remember the first time I drove my grandmother's cousin's '89 Coupe DeVille, my first thought was, why the hell make it so small if it's going to still feel so cumbersome?! But, I guess a lot of people still wanted that.

I kinda liked the downsized '86 Olds Toronado. Those things were cool looking, especially in black.

fintail

Just found this cool youtube video....fintails on the production line...probably shot in 1960-61

tjc78

Nice car but about double what it's worth

Reminds me of that insanely priced still in wrapper Brougham I posted in the project cars forum. At least you could drive this one occasionally and not kill the value. I could easily see some Caddy fanatic paying 10K for this car. There certainly aren't many of those around.

lemko

Yeah, but it's one of those god-awful ridiculously shrunken 1986-91 models that was barely distinguishable from a Olds Calais. If Cadillac kept building cars like it, I guarantee you I'd be driving a Mercedes or Lexus today. Now, if that car was a Brougham...

Mr_Shiftright

that's the rub with paying a super-premium for some time-warp car that is preserved with ultra-low mileage. If you don't drive it, all you have is some 80's expression of a Cadillac in downsized distress that you can stare at all day in your garage. You aren't going to be gathering huge crowds at an auto show. If you drive it, well good on ya' for that, but then of course as the miles add up and the chips and dings appear, your "investment" goes down the drain. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, with well-preserved 80s domestic cars.

There are 75 year old American cars that are STILL not worth $15,000. Unless you are planning to operate your own eccentric museum of objects that most people are benignly apathetic about, then you'd be kinda crazy to pay $15K for a car like that.

jrosasmc

I found two Ebay Alfas that you'd probably like:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alfa-Romeo-GOLD-3-0-WONDERFUL-MILANO-EVERTHING-WO- RKS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3efa2873daQQitemZ270484927450QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTru- cks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alfa-Romeo-Spider-1988-Alfa-Romeo-Spider-Veloce-E- xcellent-Original-Car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4a9c2014b3QQitemZ320446928051QQ- ptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

I know you owned an '88 Spider at one point but the one in the ad appears to be priced a little too high, relative to the mileage. I'd guess it'd be overdue for a valve job as well. I also included the Milano because you like those models as well, provided that the issues have been well-sorted.

Mr_Shiftright

Shoot, I'd bid on that Milano right now if it were in my area. The seller said all the right things when it comes to an Alfa.

The 88 Spider is already over-bid. If it hasn't had cylinder head work yet, it will soon---mushrooming valve seats and head gasket oil leaks are common ailments at about 100K miles. Also the sales hype makes me want to gag, but that's my problem.

boomchek

Was this also in Germany?

boomchek

Cool video. Sometimes I wish I lived in that era - older and simpler times.

fintail

That's at the Audi museum - they have period rally displays featuring many makes.

fintail

Simpler times - spray painting cars without wearing a mask :surprise:

boomchek

I was thinking about that, but maybe he was just spraying it with water to clean it?

Weren't cars dipped in a paint bath for their paint jobs even back then?

fintail

It sure looked like paint to me, the guy was even wearing a cap and a protective suit. I suspect back in the day when 95% of people smoked, they didn't worry about a few paint fumes :shades:

I am not sure how they painted the cars back then...I should have taken a normal MB factory tour, and I could have asked all kinds of weird questions about cars 50 years ago.

explorerx4

'fin.
that video was great.
first off, the soundtrack reminded me of something from 'our man flint'.
search for the above on msn.
next, the level of automation was amazing.
thanks for posting it.

ghulet

for just $5.5M, you, too can have (allegedly) the first production Mustang. And it even comes with no heater and no seatbelts. Insane:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260504865261

boomchek

Huh, very interesting.

I guess if so much money is at stake it's possible to try and fake all the documents.

I'm not a Mustang expert nor did I read the whole story, but is it a coincidence that the first one off the assemble line just happened to survive with all the supporting documents, especially after it was originally sold to "joe public"

Hmmm, even if I had all the money in the world and was a Mustang collector, I wouldn't pay more than a million for it.

lemko

All in all, it still seems like a rather unremarkable car with only a 260 V-8. It's not like it's a Bugatti Royale or something like that.

Mr_Shiftright

What a convoluted, triple-spun, tortured attempt to prove the unprovable.

Near as I can tell, the "proof" is that no lower VIN has surfaced.

So what have you got?

You have the oldest SURVIVING Mustang, you don't have the first one.

Only a chump would bid on this car, IMO.

What happens when a lower VIN surfaces? You have a *very* expensive ordinary Mustang, is what happens.

ghulet

....maybe a slight premium for the 'oldest' or 'first', but their BIN price is literally 200 times as much as this car would be otherwise, for nothing more than a VIN number and some documents. :confuse:

Mr_Shiftright

It's not even the "oldest", it's the "oldest known as of Nov 19, 2009". That's all you got with that car.

tjc78

Maybe I'm nuts... but I have a hard time believing the first Mustang was white over blue. I have no facts here, I just think the first one would have been red. Who knows, what I find funny is that the ad isn't an auction just an asking price of 5.5M. I would think someone with more money than brains would bid it up close to a million, but 5.5 :confuse:

Mr_Shiftright

Hey, he's exercising his First Amendment Rights on eBay. Let him put 10 million, who cares?

imidazol97

I have a hard time believing that the first Mustang produced in regular production wasn't well documented in the media at the time in pictures and news stories. It would be interesting to see what color they say the "first" regular production vehicle was.

oregonboy

According to this article, the first production Mustang is in a Ford museum.

The First Mustang

imidazol97

Good find. Thanks for posting.

andys120

I saw a Fiat 850 Sport Spider motoring along top-down (nice day- high 70s), an older guy at the wheel. It looked to be a very good #2 condition, a nice Lemon Yellow. It was a post-' 68 car with side markers.

Oddly this was the second 850 Spider I've seen this year, the other was a freshly painted body shell.

kyfdx

An 850? Are you sure it wasn't just coasting, downhill? :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

Very interesting. So not only is the auction car not the 1st Mustang, it's not even the first Mustang privately sold, as the guy claims.

He's got nothin' in my book but a very early serial number car.

Actually I think he's cruisin' for a law suit.