I think you'd have to shift the NADA numbers for a '58 Packardbaker Hawk one place to the left, so that high retail is in the $23,000 range, and average around $16,000. I think a survey of a couple years of eBay would bear this out.
The '56 Golden Hawk is the only car with the huge Packard engine and the only Hawk with fins that year, interestingly enough, so that always struck me as rather special among Hawks. They made more Golden Hawks in '56 than they did '58 Packard hawks however--about 5 times as many, or around 4,000 of 'em.
The normally aspirated GH with Packard engine of 352 cid puts out as much horsepower as the supercharged '58 Packardbaker, but with less complexity. The old MucCulloch superchargers are very difficult to overhaul correctly.
So ironically, the 56 Studebaker Golden Hawk is way more Packard than the '58 Packard Hawk!
The '56 Golden Hawk is the prettiest of the three years IMO, but a lot of folks prefer the idiosyncracies of the supercharger and also the reduced weight up front, versus the Packard V8's service issues, as well as those of the Packard Ultramatic.
My favorite '50's Hawk is the '56 Sky Hawk. Stude 289, no fins, hardtop bodystyle, same interior as the Golden Hawk, and even fewer built (only about 3,000).
Bill
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Some Hawks came with 4-speed manual trans also, which would be an additional fun factor as long as you weren't in heavy traffic a lot. I used to like those engine-turned dashboards on some Hawk models.
ChryCo must've had rocks in their heads thinking that could compete with Mustangs.
Well, Chrysler rushed the thing into production, so that they could beat the Mustang to the market. And I think they did, by a couple of weeks. Sad thing is, it was probably a better car than the Mustang in every respect...except for looks.
Now by the time the 1967 came out, I think they turned the Barracuda into a sexy looking car. But the '64-66 was an awkward looking beast.
for sale along the side of the road, a white cougar. guessing a '73? when they got big and rounded, but before big bumpers I think, from what I could see. def. that 1970ish vintage.
Then, driving along, a nice red testarossa. Realized how low, wide and actually pretty small the thing was.
Well, better built, for one thing. Back in those days, Chrysler tended to do small cars pretty well, and the Valiant that the Barracuda was based on was an excellent car. In contrast, Ford sort of just slapped the Mustang together. And the fact that it was wildly popular when it debuted meant they slapped them together even quicker. Although I'd imagine that, since the first Barracuda was a bit of a rush job, it might not have been as well-built as the Valiant it was based on.
The Barracuda, IIRC, came standard with a 225 slant six and 145 hp, and if you got the automatic, it was the excellent Torqueflite 904. The Mustang came with that little 170 CID 6-cyl initially, which was good for all of 101 hp. Although to their credit, they soon replaced that with a 200 CID unit with 120 hp. I forget what automatic transmission Ford used back then, though? Could you get a 3-speed in a Mustang yet, or just a 2-speed?
In V-8's, the Mustang initially offered a 164 hp 260 CID smallblock, while the Valiant had a 180 hp 273. Once Ford's 289 came out though, I'd say Ford had the definite advantage. I think that thing had up to 271 hp, while the best Mopar got out of the 273 was 235.
The first Barracuda was a bigger car inside, too, although that can be either an advantage or disadvantage, depending on your preference. But then, that more upright profile that gave you more interior room did contribute to the dumpy looks.
In base form, the Barracuda was probably a better handler...it was hard to beat that torsion bar/leaf spring setup in those days, and the Mustang was initially built to be cheap and sexy. But once the high-output versions hit the scene, you could probably build either one up to be whatever you wanted it to be.
Oh, and the Barracuda wouldn't leak fuel like a Pinto in an 11 mph rear-end collision, either! :P :surprise: I always wondered how Ford got away with it for so long in the Falcon, Mustang, and even bigger cars with the drop-in gas tank. It wasn't until the Pinto that Ford finally got their chops busted.
I had a '65 Mustang with a 170/6 and a '72 Duster with the 198/6. While the Duster was one model newer, if the Barracuda was anything like the Duster in construction there would be no comparison. The Duster was a much more substantial car, the Mustang a flimsy rustbucket in comparison. I towed a small Uhaul trailer twice (Houston-San Francisco and back) with the Duster, something I'd never consider with the Mustang.
I spotted another Gen I 'Cuda sitting in a driveway. It looked OK cosmetically but I couldn't tell if it was a runner.
I also saw a 1971 Chevelle 350, not a Malibu tho it had the slotted wheels, a black vinyl roof over Metallic Gold and black stripes on the hood. It had the less agressive grille of the Chevelle.
Basically a poor-man's SS, and available with any V8 and transmission combo, except for 454s. Built of the non-Malibu Chevelle two-door hardtop, in only 1971-72.
After the $5.5 mil price tag for Mustang #212, this $185K Shelby Mustang #184 almost looks cheap. It's been a long time since I've seen a real Shelby like this cruising the streets in Ohio, but this Wisconsin car appears to have a tag on it.
Interesting description by seller who points out that the original engine is gone. Still, that's a lot of Shelby history and Mustang fun even if the 289 is NOM.
I like it, but wonder what it will ultimately sell for since the seller has apparently turned down a $175K offer (see the Q & A section).
The Q & A refers to at least one other offer too:
Q: Will you take $1500.00 for the Stang? A: No, but thanks.
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
the last time I saw a 1957 DeSoto out on the streets, but finally saw one yesterday...
Okay, so maybe having mine towed off to the mechanic doesn't quite count, but I couldn't resist. :P
Here's some more pics of the whole ordeal. It was a bit of a pain rolling it out of the garage, as the brakes had seized up a bit. We were able to push it about half way out, and then it just stopped. I ended up dragging it the rest of the way with my pickup. It was reluctant at first, but then broke free. That last pic is of my grandmother's now-empty garage, where the DeSoto used to reside. Looks so empty now, like it needs something else to fill it up! :shades:
Looks like a light rubbing compound application and a couple coats of wax would bring her back to life. Hopefully it will be easy to get back on the road.
the price for a "driver" Shelby like this might be about $165,000 but the seller is not accounting for the BIG HIT of a NOM motor, which has to be at least a $30,000 deduct.
Also the car has a lot of aftermarket stuff, which is okay, as long as it is all reversible.
80s time warp today...I saw an Audi 5000 Quattro, and no more than 45 seconds later spotted a Peugeot 505 wagon. Both of those have to be fun to keep on the road...parts found at any corner store no doubt.
I SPEET on the Audi 5000---the Peugeot was a much better car IMO (not that this is difficult when you're talking about an Audi 5000).
Actually, if it were an Audi 5000 Quattro wagon with stickshift, that might be worth the pain. My neighbor has two---one that runs and the other for parts.
You can find Peugeot parts if you know where to look---anything you really "need", but the little trim pieces, etc. are unobtanium.
I remember when I was a little kid and those 5000 wagons were new, they seemed extremely futuristic to me...I guess in a world of Celebrities, K-cars, and leftover 70s barges, it was something from the future.
I lived in a small town then, and someone there had one of those wagons. The nearest Audi dealer must have been 2 hours away...I can't see how they kept their sanity. I remember there were some odd cars around...a schoolmate of mine's dad had a 504 diesel, which was somehow interesting to me, there were several W126 and W123 diesels, and an old couple near my house had a beautifully kept 2-tone fintail, which at the time I didn't care for - too old and weird.
I agree with you ... growing up in SoCal in the 70's and 80's, I encountered my fair share of oddballs.
For a while, a next door neighbor owned an Audi 4000 ... the "5+5" model (5 cyl and 5 speed stick) ... in the "celery green" color of current VW New Beetles. I remember the combo Peugeot / Fiat store that was next to the bowling alley I frequented every Saturday - I really wanted my folks to buy a Fiat Brava when they were available (and am now glad that they didn't).
I'm trying to remember if there was a Saab or Subaru store close by - I'm sure there was, just don't remember where.
Ah, the days before the 'mega' dealership complex. A small showroom with 1 or 2 cars, a lot with maybe 10-20 cars and trucks (SUV? What were those?). A couple of service bays.
I spent most of the 80s in a smallish (population ca. 12000) town, but it was 2 hours from any other real population centers, so it had a good amount of new car dealers - Big 3 and child brands, Honda, Toyota, Datsun/Nissan, VW, AMC. As it was kind of a semi-rural area, domestics were most prevalent, but there were oddities around too. I think all of the dealerships there were the small variety - showroom might hold 4 or 5 cars tops , maybe a couple dozen on the lot.
I remember when the new 1985 Jettas came out, the new style...I was impressed by them. My dad was a hopeless lookie-loo, every other Sunday or so, he'd cruise by the lots and see if anything looked new. I remember looking at the Jetta with him, and liking how it seemed so modern and European, something I liked even then. I remember trying to talk my parents into buying one...but no deal.
Our neighbors had a X1/9....green of course. It seemed extremely loud, which I liked. They also had a Toyota X-tra cab 4x4 that was a near twin to the one at the end of 'Back to the Future'...that seemed like an awesome truck, at a time when I had a little thing for the period 4-Runners, the removable top model. Of course, my dad had to go and buy a brown S-10 Blazer.
One of my mother's friends had an Audi 4000 sedan, I remember it...and another of her friends had a diesel Rabbit. The parents of a kid I knew in passing from school had a 4000 2-door sedan...can't remember the last time I saw one of those. I remember someone in the area had a yellow Fiat Brava wagon...that was a weirdo even then. There was also an old lady in the neighborhood who had a Peugeot 604 with the "Automatique" badge...seemed insanely exotic to me. I can't imagine why people drove these freakshow cars when the dealer was hours away. Not what one would expect in small-town 80s car culture.
It was a dry area, so lots of old metal around too. It was easy to snoop around people's backyards or garages and "discover" old cars. Ones I remember most were a Hudson Hornet in a backyard, and a 49-51 Mercury woody rotting away in the yard of an old guy with a mean dog. My best friend's grandparents had a ca. 1920 Cadillac "pullman" style sedan languishing in their garage. 60s cars generally didn't even make me look, too new. I do remember a girl at my school would get a ride in a Roadrunner once in a while...the paint scheme and decals caught my attention.
That's cool memories. Before we left Poland in 1986, I remember seeing anything exotic on the streets in Poland was a big deal. me and my cousin would keep a tally on how many Porsches we saw in our lifetime because they were a rare sight back then in our country.
The first time I saw a 928 parked on the street in the early 80s I was amazed. There was a crowd of people around it staring at it because it was a striking looking machine back then. I peeked inside and I was blown away when the speedo went up to 260 or 280 or so km/h when most of our family cars only showed a max of 160 or 180km/h on the speedometer.
I typed a bit much, but by the end I had a feeling you might enjoy it :shades:
I used to count MB when we went on trips. I was a little weird, I guess. Porsches were very rare in my neck of the woods...I don't think I saw a 928 until around the time you did, and that was on a trip to the city. I liked those cars, and I remember it vividly, it was red. I also remember the first Ferrari I saw on the road, it was a grey 308 and I saw it ca. 1985.
Back then most late model American cars had speedometers that only went to 80-85mph. Dark days.
When I was in 7th or 8th grade (this was '77-'78), I had to do an oral report on any topic of our choosing.
I had my dad take me to the local Porsche dealership where I got literature for the newly released 924.
I cut out all the pictures from the brochure and created a collage from it.
To this day, I remember struggling with the explanation of what cD meant .. for the 924, I think it was 0.36 or something like that, which was quite good for the era.
When we came to Canada and I looked at the speedometers that only wnet up to 140km/h (84 or so mph) I was shocked and thought what the heck is wrong with these ugly cars? Why are they so slow? :confuse:
Coming from Italy to Canada must have been automotive culture shock, especially back then, when the NA market was really repressed...heck, I felt it after coming back from just a few weeks on the continent, and I still feel it when I drive.
Yeah it took me a while to get used to the huge land yachts with the wood dash trim, column shifters, and the deep plush upholstery. I'm still getting used to it now that I think about it, and sometimes admire the pure ugliness of it all. Some of these land yachts had some style (60s-70s), but most of the stuff from the 80s were just pure blah :sick:
When did you make it to NA...around 1988-89 or so?
I have to think back...I think at that time there was probably a Taurus and Tempo in the family...and my dad still had the S-10 Blazer. Not too ancient style-wise, for the times. I don't remember the Ciera having fake wood, but I swear the Taurus did...funny as it was the more modern car.
The early 80s was not the golden age of the automobile.
You arrived right at the end of malaise, and right before Van kind of exploded.
I remember in the late 80s a relative of mine also had a Volvo wagon, I think it was a 76...and it was a pukey green. I remember it had a strange exhaust pipe.
Buick Riviera Packard - what a horrible lookin g thing, What a way to drag a good name through the mud. It's like putting a LeMans name on a korean hatchback - oh wait it's been done already too.
Deville convertible. The back seat looks painfully uncomfortable. You'd think it would have a bigger back seat for such a huge car.
70s Dodge Wagon - I can't believe there's a fireplace in there of all things. Plus imagine how many dust mites and fleas that interior holds right now. If you have allergies you'd probably die by sneezing in there.
I like the Zagato bodied Lancia. Cool looking thing. One of a kind too for the money. I think it's a good buy.
This Donk thing. I never really "got it." I grew up with import tuner cars, mini trucks, lowriders which I all like. I even like hot rods, resto rods, and rat rods too. But this donk thing is just weird. Good thing I haven't seen one in Vancouver yet. Maybe it's a southern thing, I don't know.
I think the Donk thing is very much an American phenomenon that greatly increases as you move south or east. Only a few of them here, and most ebay ads seem to be a ways away from here.
I saw an old guy pull out of a driveway in one of those Loewy Studebaker two doors. It was nicely preserved but the chrome did look a little dull. Speaking of chrome, the grille surround was rather heavy compared to the '53-'54 so guessed it was about a '55. Looking at some pictures I found a '55 that looked just like it except it was white over turquoise paint:
Comments
The '56 Golden Hawk is the only car with the huge Packard engine and the only Hawk with fins that year, interestingly enough, so that always struck me as rather special among Hawks. They made more Golden Hawks in '56 than they did '58 Packard hawks however--about 5 times as many, or around 4,000 of 'em.
The normally aspirated GH with Packard engine of 352 cid puts out as much horsepower as the supercharged '58 Packardbaker, but with less complexity. The old MucCulloch superchargers are very difficult to overhaul correctly.
So ironically, the 56 Studebaker Golden Hawk is way more Packard than the '58 Packard Hawk!
My favorite '50's Hawk is the '56 Sky Hawk. Stude 289, no fins, hardtop bodystyle, same interior as the Golden Hawk, and even fewer built (only about 3,000).
Bill
Well, Chrysler rushed the thing into production, so that they could beat the Mustang to the market. And I think they did, by a couple of weeks. Sad thing is, it was probably a better car than the Mustang in every respect...except for looks.
Now by the time the 1967 came out, I think they turned the Barracuda into a sexy looking car. But the '64-66 was an awkward looking beast.
Then, driving along, a nice red testarossa. Realized how low, wide and actually pretty small the thing was.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
How so? :confuse:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The Barracuda, IIRC, came standard with a 225 slant six and 145 hp, and if you got the automatic, it was the excellent Torqueflite 904. The Mustang came with that little 170 CID 6-cyl initially, which was good for all of 101 hp. Although to their credit, they soon replaced that with a 200 CID unit with 120 hp. I forget what automatic transmission Ford used back then, though? Could you get a 3-speed in a Mustang yet, or just a 2-speed?
In V-8's, the Mustang initially offered a 164 hp 260 CID smallblock, while the Valiant had a 180 hp 273. Once Ford's 289 came out though, I'd say Ford had the definite advantage. I think that thing had up to 271 hp, while the best Mopar got out of the 273 was 235.
The first Barracuda was a bigger car inside, too, although that can be either an advantage or disadvantage, depending on your preference. But then, that more upright profile that gave you more interior room did contribute to the dumpy looks.
In base form, the Barracuda was probably a better handler...it was hard to beat that torsion bar/leaf spring setup in those days, and the Mustang was initially built to be cheap and sexy. But once the high-output versions hit the scene, you could probably build either one up to be whatever you wanted it to be.
Oh, and the Barracuda wouldn't leak fuel like a Pinto in an 11 mph rear-end collision, either! :P :surprise: I always wondered how Ford got away with it for so long in the Falcon, Mustang, and even bigger cars with the drop-in gas tank. It wasn't until the Pinto that Ford finally got their chops busted.
I also saw a 1971 Chevelle 350, not a Malibu tho it had the slotted wheels, a black vinyl roof over Metallic Gold and black stripes on the hood. It had the less agressive grille of the Chevelle.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
http://www.chevelles.com/years/72/heavychevy.html
Basically a poor-man's SS, and available with any V8 and transmission combo, except for 454s. Built of the non-Malibu Chevelle two-door hardtop, in only 1971-72.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Moving down the freeway at 65+..
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Interesting description by seller who points out that the original engine is gone. Still, that's a lot of Shelby history and Mustang fun even if the 289 is NOM.
I like it, but wonder what it will ultimately sell for since the seller has apparently turned down a $175K offer (see the Q & A section).
The Q & A refers to at least one other offer too:
Q: Will you take $1500.00 for the Stang?
A: No, but thanks.
Okay, so maybe having mine towed off to the mechanic doesn't quite count, but I couldn't resist. :P
Here's some more pics of the whole ordeal. It was a bit of a pain rolling it out of the garage, as the brakes had seized up a bit. We were able to push it about half way out, and then it just stopped. I ended up dragging it the rest of the way with my pickup. It was reluctant at first, but then broke free. That last pic is of my grandmother's now-empty garage, where the DeSoto used to reside. Looks so empty now, like it needs something else to fill it up! :shades:
Also the car has a lot of aftermarket stuff, which is okay, as long as it is all reversible.
Actually, if it were an Audi 5000 Quattro wagon with stickshift, that might be worth the pain. My neighbor has two---one that runs and the other for parts.
You can find Peugeot parts if you know where to look---anything you really "need", but the little trim pieces, etc. are unobtanium.
I lived in a small town then, and someone there had one of those wagons. The nearest Audi dealer must have been 2 hours away...I can't see how they kept their sanity. I remember there were some odd cars around...a schoolmate of mine's dad had a 504 diesel, which was somehow interesting to me, there were several W126 and W123 diesels, and an old couple near my house had a beautifully kept 2-tone fintail, which at the time I didn't care for - too old and weird.
I remember you just love the Peugeot 604 :P
For a while, a next door neighbor owned an Audi 4000 ... the "5+5" model (5 cyl and 5 speed stick) ... in the "celery green" color of current VW New Beetles. I remember the combo Peugeot / Fiat store that was next to the bowling alley I frequented every Saturday - I really wanted my folks to buy a Fiat Brava when they were available (and am now glad that they didn't).
I'm trying to remember if there was a Saab or Subaru store close by - I'm sure there was, just don't remember where.
Ah, the days before the 'mega' dealership complex. A small showroom with 1 or 2 cars, a lot with maybe 10-20 cars and trucks (SUV? What were those?). A couple of service bays.
I remember when the new 1985 Jettas came out, the new style...I was impressed by them. My dad was a hopeless lookie-loo, every other Sunday or so, he'd cruise by the lots and see if anything looked new. I remember looking at the Jetta with him, and liking how it seemed so modern and European, something I liked even then. I remember trying to talk my parents into buying one...but no deal.
Our neighbors had a X1/9....green of course. It seemed extremely loud, which I liked. They also had a Toyota X-tra cab 4x4 that was a near twin to the one at the end of 'Back to the Future'...that seemed like an awesome truck, at a time when I had a little thing for the period 4-Runners, the removable top model. Of course, my dad had to go and buy a brown S-10 Blazer.
One of my mother's friends had an Audi 4000 sedan, I remember it...and another of her friends had a diesel Rabbit. The parents of a kid I knew in passing from school had a 4000 2-door sedan...can't remember the last time I saw one of those. I remember someone in the area had a yellow Fiat Brava wagon...that was a weirdo even then. There was also an old lady in the neighborhood who had a Peugeot 604 with the "Automatique" badge...seemed insanely exotic to me. I can't imagine why people drove these freakshow cars when the dealer was hours away. Not what one would expect in small-town 80s car culture.
It was a dry area, so lots of old metal around too. It was easy to snoop around people's backyards or garages and "discover" old cars. Ones I remember most were a Hudson Hornet in a backyard, and a 49-51 Mercury woody rotting away in the yard of an old guy with a mean dog. My best friend's grandparents had a ca. 1920 Cadillac "pullman" style sedan languishing in their garage. 60s cars generally didn't even make me look, too new. I do remember a girl at my school would get a ride in a Roadrunner once in a while...the paint scheme and decals caught my attention.
The first time I saw a 928 parked on the street in the early 80s I was amazed. There was a crowd of people around it staring at it because it was a striking looking machine back then. I peeked inside and I was blown away when the speedo went up to 260 or 280 or so km/h when most of our family cars only showed a max of 160 or 180km/h on the speedometer.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I used to count MB when we went on trips. I was a little weird, I guess. Porsches were very rare in my neck of the woods...I don't think I saw a 928 until around the time you did, and that was on a trip to the city. I liked those cars, and I remember it vividly, it was red. I also remember the first Ferrari I saw on the road, it was a grey 308 and I saw it ca. 1985.
Back then most late model American cars had speedometers that only went to 80-85mph. Dark days.
I had my dad take me to the local Porsche dealership where I got literature for the newly released 924.
I cut out all the pictures from the brochure and created a collage from it.
To this day, I remember struggling with the explanation of what cD meant .. for the 924, I think it was 0.36 or something like that, which was quite good for the era.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Skoda Superb Tango
I have to think back...I think at that time there was probably a Taurus and Tempo in the family...and my dad still had the S-10 Blazer. Not too ancient style-wise, for the times. I don't remember the Ciera having fake wood, but I swear the Taurus did...funny as it was the more modern car.
The early 80s was not the golden age of the automobile.
could not have been any worse than mine about the yankees in parochial school in massachusetts.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
So yeah, there were many leftover early 80s cars around too that just didn't do it for me.
My parent's first car here was a 77 Volvo 245 wagon. Pea green too. Decent car I guess.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I remember in the late 80s a relative of mine also had a Volvo wagon, I think it was a 76...and it was a pukey green. I remember it had a strange exhaust pipe.
Appalling
Shocking bids...and Andre needs a new car
Another one surfaced...woo hoo
Standard of the World
Standard of weirdness
Drive it over train tracks, I dare ya
Truckster for the country club set
Not many of these left
Survivor with a good story
Chemically induced
Awkward
Don't look
Rare and pricey
Probably even rarer
Cool wagon
Castrated goat
Handles well I'm sure
End of an era
Insane project
"Black Beauty"
Old growth forest
Not for the weak of stomach
Datsun F10 -- it was an awful car and everybody knew it.
57 Bonny Fuelie --- it's not going to meet reserve, you watch. That car is very valuable.
I-H Woody --- really ugly for a woody. The bid was more than enough for the looks & condition IMO.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I'll bet that '74 "GTO" has some serious hidden rust issues.
Deville convertible. The back seat looks painfully uncomfortable. You'd think it would have a bigger back seat for such a huge car.
70s Dodge Wagon - I can't believe there's a fireplace in there of all things. Plus imagine how many dust mites and fleas that interior holds right now. If you have allergies you'd probably die by sneezing in there.
I like the Zagato bodied Lancia. Cool looking thing. One of a kind too for the money. I think it's a good buy.
This Donk thing. I never really "got it." I grew up with import tuner cars, mini trucks, lowriders which I all like. I even like hot rods, resto rods, and rat rods too. But this donk thing is just weird. Good thing I haven't seen one in Vancouver yet. Maybe it's a southern thing, I don't know.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1955 Studebaker Commander Starliner>
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93