I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

explorerx4

2 Merkur xr4ti's!
Also today, a late air cooled white 911 turbo cab.

fintail

A few oddballs. 80s pseudo bustleback Lincoln in immaculate condition, restored looking early Midget dwarfed by a Civic, old lady in a 113 SL with a huge dog beside her, sierra gold/adobe beige 57 Bel Air 4 door post, restored fully...I remember the color names as I saw a Nomad in those colors when I was a kid and I thought it worked beautifully.

lemko

Gold 1960 Edsel Ranger with a white roof near the Willow Grove entrance to the PA Turnpike. The car was driven by an elderly guy and appeared to be in excellent condition.

andre1969

It's a beautiful car, and I like that you really don't see Executives nearly as often as Catalinas or Bonnevilles, but that long wheelbase of the Executive adds an ungainly look to the car.

I really don't notice the difference in length of the Catalina versus the Executive/Bonneville, unless the two happen to be parked next to each other. Not an occurrence that would happen all that often in the "real world", but I've seen it often enough at car shows where they group the cars by make and model, such as the GM show at Carlisle.

The Catalina was around 215" long, and on a 121" wb, while the Executive/Bonneville were on a 124" wb. The Bonneville was around 223" long, and I'd presume the Executive was, as well.

I do notice the difference in length more with the 4-door sedan/hardtop (wagons used the 121" wb), as the area where they added the 3" of wheelbase is really obvious, in that little area between the back door and the rear wheel opening. I don't notice it as much on the hardtops and convertibles.

omarman

Yesterday afternoon I saw a 2003 Thunderbird in coral like this one backing into a parking place. Can't be many of those around and I waited to see the driver get out. No it wasn't Halle Berry, but a 30-something girl dressed in ordinary mommy uniform, jeans and pullover sweater. That might have been one reason why the last gen T-bird didn't last long. It appealed to people who needed more than 2 seats instead of performance-oriented drivers who want a weekend toy. Sort of like the Buick Reatta problem.

au1994

The "new" T-Bird came when the market was not interested in personal luxury 2 seaters. if buyers were in a position to make the scarifices that a 2 seater brings, they wanted sporty looks and performance, not nostalgic styling cues and ho-mum performance.

andre1969

I always thought the revived T-bird was a bit of a flop in the style department. The original '55-57 T-bird had a L-O-N-G hood, and a somewhat long rear deck, and a forward thrust to it. The hood on the revival was way too short, and the front was raked back, more like a '53-55 Corvette than a '55-57 T-bird.

I'm sure the lack of a back seat limited its market, as well. I wonder if they would have been better off trying to emulate the '58-60?

au1994

I thought the styling was just ok. They had an opportunity to knock it out of the park styling wise and just hit a nice solid double in my book.

Not sure if emulating the 4 seater bullet 'birds would have saved it or not. Couldn't have hurt!

Mr_Shiftright

It should have been a better-appointed 4-seater GT-type car. Nothing wrong with trying to appeal to women (I mean, the Lexus RX300 did that quite successfully) as the main marketing angle , but I would have bumped the new Bird more upscale. The original T-Bird wasn't a sports car by any stretch--it was a bauble you dangled off your wrist. It should have competed toe-to-toe in the mid-lux market and it should have had a nicer interior, and a manual transmission and manumatic option. Somelike like a 4-seat Mercedes SLK.

(/armchair quarterbacking)

:P

fintail

The raked back front of that car has always irked me, it has a weird face. Retro is a hard act to pull off.

omarman

It's strange that domestic car makers have only found one recipe for a 2-seater which keeps selling and that's the Corvette. Miata was clever with the Lotus retro look in 1989 and it's still in production while the original Elan was gone after what? 10-12 years?

I agree that the retro look is a tricky thing but the Mustang has it. The new Challenger looks the part on the outside anyway. The new Camaro only looks retro on the inside. I've seen pics of a modified new Camaro with a first gen grill treatment and it just looks like a new Camaro with the wrong front end. Maybe Chevy was trying to evoke a pony car image instead of retracing the old F-body lines.

Mr_Shiftright

Well the Mustang has a couple of "edges" over Camaro and Challenger; one, it is the only one of the 3 that has been in continuous production, and thus maintained a very strong fan base; two, their specialty cars, especially the new Boss 302, just kicks butt on the street right now and enjoys the most 'creds' in retro-muscle.

uplanderguy

As a GM guy, I gotta admit that except in certain colors and options, the new Camaro doesn't do a lot for me. I do like it from the rear though. The Challenger looks the most like the original of the three (including Mustang). While I like the Mustang, I don't like it well enough to buy one.

Conversely, I liked the '02 T-Bird a lot when it came out...a pleasing mix of retro and modern. I think one problem about it was that it seems Ford showed it at auto shows for three or four years before it actually came out. I know people paid WAY over sticker for them when they came out--sort-of-like the '76 Eldo convertible situation.

The T-Birds seem like they might be a nice used-car value now.

I'm only 5'8", but I do remember that with the hardtop, headroom seemed tight in the T-Bird.

kyfdx

Maybe, I would feel differently with a bigger picture... or in person... But, I love that '69 Camaro grill treatment... I think it looks good on it! Of course, I loved the original as well...

One retro touch that didn't look that great to me, was the rear end/taillights on the recent generation Mustang... too plain and generic... I think the latest one was a big improvement.

Mr_Shiftright

The new Mustang Boss 302 "Laguna Seca" edition sounds like a fabulous car---it really is a "track car", unlike some posers that would crumple after a few very hard laps at speed. Slickest thing is a "smart key", wherein, depending on which key you insert, you get a streetable or a track-able car with adjustments to over 400 different settings.

fintail

I just spent a few days a little outside of well developed civilization, and spotted this oddity:



Euro model, 1980-85, period aftermarket "Centra" wheels, blue cloth (!) interior, very oxidized and neglected but no visible body panel rust anyway. By the way it sits it likely doesn't have an engine anymore. I didn't get out to look and see if anything cool was inside. It appears to be a period monochrome car with trim paint that isn't holding together so well after 30 years.

And this gave me a chuckle:



I am not familiar with this spoiler on a W126, I don't think it is AMG, maybe Lorinser. The poor old car is probably mostly only good for scrap metal now, but this is exactly the kind of thing I would hoard if I had a junkyard.

Oh yeah, "600SE"...umm, no. But in the 80s, yes. Car also has the rare aftermarket rear light panel filler below the emblem. Never understood why this was made.

texases

I saw another odd W126 this weekend, a grey market 500 SEL with the euro bumpers. Right before that passed a ratty MG Midget, it went 1/2 way into the intersection at a red light...brakes might need a little work :surprise:

A few days before saw a W123 240D. Those things will still be running when the only other thing left are cockroaches...

Mr_Shiftright

however, a cockroach will be able to outrun it. :P

some 240D comments from the automotive press:

"it couldn't leave rubber on a hosed down concrete floor in an underground parking lot"

"does not have the power required to pull the skin off rice pudding"

fintail

I love me some 126 series cars, they will always be perfect in my eyes, timeless. Euro is better, too.

I did see a 300SD on the highway this morning, a little smoky, and a clean 380SEL the other day, but with wrong and too big W220 wheels. They have survived in huge numbers. I still see W123s every day.

I also saw a chrome bumper MGBGT today, with the stock mag wheels. Over the weekend I saw an 83-84 Camry...I was out with my mother in her Camry, which is a boat compared to the early one, I told her that was the first Camry, she couldn't believe it.

Mr_Shiftright

the MGB-GT is such a sweet little car--I'm surprised it isn't more popular or valuable. Very practical hatch-back, good on gas, fun to drive, attractive, and superb aftermarket support. Puzzling.

michaellno

I don't normally post what I see, but I'm making an exception.

In Colorado Springs on Sunday, I spotted either an R32 or R34 Skyline. RHD and everything. With Wyoming plates! I thought everybody in Wyoming drove pickup trucks.

Later in the day, I saw a silver Ferrari. - 360, maybe? Not the best looking color for those - gotta be either red or yellow.

jljac

the MGB-GT is such a sweet little car--I'm surprised it isn't more popular or valuable. Very practical hatch-back, good on gas, fun to drive, attractive, and superb aftermarket support. Puzzling.

Maybe it's because of the low engine power, the two six-volt batteries wired in series under the back seat with a positive ground, use of Girling brake fluid, three-piece oil filter that is blocked by the unusually long starter motor, weak dealer support. . . . :confuse:

stickguy

parked together next to a local park (in a low traffic area though) was a white '75ish Monte Carlo and a 2 door '65 or '66 Galaxie (or maybe a fairlane, not sure which). Both for sale.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, c'mon....the MGB 1.8 engine has excellent low end torque--it's a very peppy, fun car to drive on modern roads---in no way inhibited by a lack of power.

As for the other stuff...well...it's BRITISH...that's what they do. What does it really matter which way the electrons go around? :P

They are, in their defense, very easy cars to work on---you couldn't ask for anything more simple really.

You can fix an MGB with a pipe wrench and parts from Home Depot.

fintail

You forgot about the audible rust :shades: ...but they are nice looking cars.

Back right after I graduated high school, a good friend of mine bought an early 70s MGB, and I had my fintail. I will say that even though that thing was a decade newer than my car, had far fewer miles, and cost twice as much when he bought it, it hadn't aged very well.

stickguy

driving around this weekend in Jersey (weather was gorgeous), under it's own power, a '75ish (big bumper) Vega hatchback. Actually looked very clean, even somewhat stylish with fancy (but stock looking) wheels. DId not see badging, but it might have been a GT (they still made them at that point?)

even more shocking, it was not pouring out smoke!

Mr_Shiftright

MGs mostly fell into the hands of poor people, kinda like what happens to old Benz sedans---they don't have the means to care for them.

lemko

Their original owners weren't often poor. When I was a very young kid in the late 1960s / early 1970s, this spoiled princess of a teenage girl got a new MG from her well-to-do parents, wrecked it, and then got another.

fintail

And those are probably the types who will lecture to others about hard work and paying your own way...

One thing about neglecting a British car vs an old MB - the MB can soldier on for a long time while being abused, a MG will just crumble into dust.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I must respectfully disagree. An MGB is one of the toughest little cars on the planet---as for rust--hey, can we agree that just about *anything* built in the 1960s and early 70s rusted.

True, when first purchased, neither MGs nor Benz sedans were owned by "poor" people, but as soon as they acquired ten years and some dents, they went to the lower rungs of the economic ladder.

At least with an MG, you can order up cheap parts to replace anything--even a new body if you want one and virtually no mechanical job is beyond the backyard mechanic except maybe rebuilding the overdrive transmission if there is one.

fintail

I'd have to believe the British car would become paralyzed by structural or electrical maladies before the German car, with everything else being equal. I suspect survival rates are better for the latter, too.

Of course it will be cheaper to fix the MG, it's a 1930s car with a 1960s body.

uplanderguy

Re. '75 Vega...when a teen, I wanted a new Vega like almost nothing else. In GT form, with the optional Custom Interior (Camaro seats and soft door panels), I thought that no Pinto or Gremlin was even close. I always liked the wagon styling too (although the Pinto wagon could carry more). I prefer the '74 and '75 bumpers over the earlier style...bumpers and taillights were too tiny IMO!

The later Vegas were (somewhat) better. I know this is for another forum, but I can't think of another car that was introduced with higher hopes than the Vega, and ended up being a bigger disappointment.

Mr_Shiftright

I think that the MGB will eventually outnumber 60s and 70s Benzes in survival rate (if they don't already) because the aftermarket industry is so vast and restoration costs considerably lower---also we are matching sports cars against mostly sedans, which puts the MG at a great advantage to survive.

A truck can bring a brand new MGB body to your door but you can't do that with a ponton or fintail unfortunately.

ab348

It's a good thing they're easy to work on, because they always need work.

I grew up in a household in the 60s with 2 older brothers who had the British car bug. Over about a 5 year period a Morris Minor, MGA, Austin Healey Sprite, Austin 1100, two Austin Americas, an indeterminate number of Minis, and others I am probably forgetting passed through our household.

It is pretty accurate to say that all of them were pretty junky, even when new. Forget about rust - they didn't have time to rust before other things took them down. Broken gear teeth in transmissions, bad synchros, bad clutches galore, bad brakes, and my favorite was a cracked aluminum transmission case that required rewelding every 3-4 months. That is not even mentioning the myriad wind and water leaks, horrendous Lucas electrics and the SU carbs. None of these cars were very old except for the Minor and MGA, and many were bought brand new. Just nightmarish.

People love to talk about how bad Detroit's cars of this era were, but they were all paragons of virtue compared to these.

berri

I remember as a kid growing up in the Chicago area during the 60's that TR-3's were very popular. I actually saw more of those on the road back then than MG's or Austin Healeys. Don't seem to hear much about Triumph's these days.

Mr_Shiftright

I never had any of those problems with my MGBs (had four of 'em). Never broke down, near as I can recall. The Morris Minor and Austins were *very* cheesy compared to a B. An MGB is a very well built car actually, very strong unibody. So some of the other Brit cars might have soured your tastebuds, and I can understand why. But a Ferrari is not a Fiat and a Benz is not an Opel, and an MGB is certainly not an Austin America. The cracked bellhousings were Morris problem, the chipped teeth were a problem because of non-synchro first gear on Sprites, Minors, etc. and the Mini of course had the engine/transaxle built into one front-drive complexity, along with hydro-lastic suspension. It's a different animal.

Lucas electrics---yeah they suck on an MGB, but later we got some Motorola stuff. Wind and water--well you cured that with the MGB-GT which was very snug. But if you live in wet and cold, stay away from an MGB roadster, you're right about that!

And SU carburetors are great--anyone who can't make them work doesn't know how to dial them in, is the only problem....ham-fisted mechanics in gas stations.

Like fintail said---the MIGB, aside from the unibody, was 1930s tech in the 1970s---tried and true.

Best years? 1969-71 are the sweetest.

jwilliams2

I remember buying a brand new dark green/tan MGB as a surprise birthday gift for my wife back in the 70's. The dealer delivered it to me at home while the wife was at work. They pulled it into the garage and the whole carburetor linkage fell off when they turned the motor off. Needless to say, they had to truck it back to the dealership to fix it. That car always had something wrong with it. And it was slow. Sounded like a tractor. But she enjoyed it for a year or so, although I did have to teach her how to drive a stick. That was probably the worst part. :P

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, too bad. The damn fools obviously didn't set it up right at all. If the carbs are not in synch, the engine goes dead. But when everything is right it's a very peppy car.

I remember selling one of mine to someone who loved the way it ran. Some months later I met them and asked about the car (a lovely 71 white roadster). They said "it's never run the same as when you had it".

So I took it back for a week and re-tuned it, and it ran great. Once again, within 6 months his mechanics had it running like a dead dog.

Did they even READ the manual? I doubt it. I found just about every spec whacked out. I don't think carburetor mixture screws rotate themselves 12 turns out of adjustment! And believe me, I was no MGB genius!

Fintail could tell you how his Mercedes 220SE would run if someone adjusted the points wrong, the valves too tight, and installed Champion spark plugs originally made for a lawnmower. That's about how I got my MGB back.

fintail

I dunno, I swear the fintail's idle speed screw moves itself now and then :shades:

On that car, this year it is cooling system refresh, next year tires and maybe steering wheel restoration, year after that maybe valve seals. Neverending story... But at least it always starts right up.

On the obscure front, I saw an E36 hatch today with a cloth webasto-style sunroof.

martian

was easy! I agree with Shifty-it is something you can do with a 12" piece of garden hose and a screwdriver. Many mechanics make a big deal out of it-it is not rocket science.
A three-carb setup (Jaguar) is a bit more complex, but nothing for a good mechanic.

jwilliams2

If the carbs are not in synch, the engine goes dead.....

I probably would have liked the earlier model better, mine had a single carb and the rubber bumpers with the jacked up ride height. Performance was compramised by mandated emission laws. Should have bought one in the sixties I suppose, but I was too into muscle cars then. :P

andre1969

Even as a little kid, I was a big car fan, so I didn't like the Vega. But, as an adult looking back, I appreciate what could have been, just a bit more. It really was a good looking car, with its baby Camaro looks. Definitely a lot better looking than the Pinto and Gremlin, and anything the imports were offering at the time.

Well, okay, the old Datsun 240/260/280Z were great looking cars, but they were also a LOT more expensive.

And, call me weird, but I always thought the Pontiac Astre clone was a good looking little car.

au1994

And, call me weird, but I always thought the Pontiac Astre clone was a good looking little car

Heck, that doesn't make you weird. I thought the Vega's theoretical replacement, the Chevy Monza and clones were good looking cars for the day.

uplanderguy

I had two high school friends who got new V8 '75 Monza 2+2's and I loved them (OK, the one was a demo, the other was brand-spanking new). One was orange with saddle cloth interior; the other was red with sandalwood vinyl inside. Both were automatics. My friend's Dad had ordered a 4-cyl. but much to my friend's delight, the $500 rebate would not be in effect as promised since the car had to be delivered by the end of Feb., prompting "Dad" to get a V8 in another dealer's stock and did a dealer trade. My friend was ecstatic to get the V8!

Both cars, you could hear stopping a block away...seriously. I could always tell when one was coming down our street. I loved the cars anyway. Both were $4,800 sticker...serious money back then for a car like that.

hpmctorque

I agree with your comments on the Vega, with the difference being that I liked/like small cars (and compact, mid-size, and large...heck, I like them all!)

One car I liked a lot was the '75 Olds Omega. It was, essentially, a tarted up Nova, but I think one engine option was the Olds 350, with the 3-speed automatic. In addition to the good power to weight, these compacts handled relatively well. I thought the Omega with the 350 was an absolute bargain compared to the European models of the day.

uplanderguy

I thought the '75 X-body revision was a good one. By '74, I hated the Nova...so frumpy/dumpy looking. And even in four-doors, the '75's had a BMW-esque rear door cut and C-pillar vent...probably the nicest-looking four-door '70's GM's in my memory.

On a 111" inch wheelbase, the '75 X's were only one inch shorter than the intermediate coupe wheelbase. Among Chevys, I didn't like the '75 Chevelle at all but I liked the Nova Custom, and the seldom-seen Nova LN, a lot.

andre1969

One car I liked a lot was the '75 Olds Omega. It was, essentially, a tarted up Nova, but I think one engine option was the Olds 350, with the 3-speed automatic. In addition to the good power to weight, these compacts handled relatively well. I thought the Omega with the 350 was an absolute bargain compared to the European models of the day.

Back in the late 90's, a '76 or so Olds Omega showed up at a local park and sell lot. It was powder blue and I think it was a Brougham model, as it had a really nice crushed velour interior. With its clean, squared-off lines, it made my '68 Dart look utterly ancient. Alas, this Omega only had an Olds 260 V-8. So, while it would have been slow, at least it would have been reliable, most likely. I think the seller only wanted $900 for it, and it seemed in decent shape.

I'm a lot more tolerant of smaller cars nowadays than I was when I was younger. While I still might not buy one, I still enjoy talking about them, comparing them, seeing the old ones at car shows, etc.

Oh, and when I was a kid, there was a time when I tried to push Mom to get a small car...of all things, a Chevy Monza! In 1979 I had gotten a racecar set for Christmas, and one of the cars was a Monza. When Mom started talking about replacing her aging, guzzling '75 LeMans, she mentioned a Monza, and I got excited thinking Mom was buying a race car!

lemko

The only thing I can recall about a 1976 Oldsmobile Omega is that a boy and a girl from high school got drunk, ran a green one head-on into a city bus, and killed themselves almost 31 years ago.

My younger brother got an electric racecar set for Xmas back about the same time. The cars were a BMW and a late '70s Pontiac Trans Am. Talk about a weird pairing of racecars.

andre1969

My younger brother got an electric racecar set for Xmas back about the same time. The cars were a BMW and a late '70s Pontiac Trans Am. Talk about a weird pairing of racecars.

I think the other racecar in my set was a Porsche. Odd that I'd remember the Monza so well, but block out the Porsche! I even remember the Monza's color, a sort of Robin's Egg Blue.

lemko

Going back further, my brother had a Hot Wheels set with two cars: a red 1974-76 Ford Torino and a yellow 1973-76 Monte Carlo.