Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

14474484504524531306

Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Looks like an airbag car , nice looking old beast - good colors too.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,951
    I think only the 89 5th avs got the airbag. It is a nice old car, great interiors in those.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    There were a few grey market importers of the CX during the 80s - hard to believe anyone would take such a gamble.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Yeah, that car is clean, who'd a thought Toyo made white walls;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Funny thing, my first car, a 66 Galaxie, had Toyo whitewalls. They looked pretty decent on it - previous owner put them on.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    hard to believe anyone would take such a gamble.

    If you knew this guy, you'd understand. Eccentric wouldn't begin to describe him. I know he rarely drove it. I was a treat to just see it pulled out of his garage. I don't think I ever saw him drive it down the road.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Funny thing, my first car, a 66 Galaxie, had Toyo whitewalls. They looked pretty decent on it - previous owner put them on.

    I should have posted "still makes white walls";)

    Whitewalls definitely looked good on some cars back in the day. At least that's one thing I don't have to worry about keeping clean anymore.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,951
    Whitewalls definitely looked good on some cars back in the day

    Yes, most 70s and 80s cars certainly look better with them. The larger land yachts especially. They don't even need to be very thick 3/4 to 1" look great. They aren't that bad to keep clean, I used to raid the kitchen for some Brillo/SOS pads and they did the trick better than any cleaner made for the job.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited April 2011
    I'd have been afraid to drive it too - sketchy reliability and minimal parts support. IIRC both importers were on the east coast, and you wouldn't exactly be able to go down to the local Schucks and get parts for it, nor take it to your corner garage to have it mended.

    Regarding whitewalls, perfect for some cars, none of those made anymore. Even the TC and DTS don't look right with them today. But the tires are still made, every now and then I'll see an oldster in something like a Camry or Forester put whitewalls on it - looks hilarious and terrible.

    I've always ran whitewalls on the fintail, if you clean them regularly, it is easy.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Westley's Bleche-Wite and a toothbrush also does an awesome job! I use the Brillos if they get really scuffed or filthy.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Westley's Bleche-Wite and a toothbrush also does an awesome job! I use the Brillos if they get really scuffed or filthy.

    Yeah, that brings back memories.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...copper-metallic 1970 Chevrolet Malibu four-door sedan with a 307 V-8 on Bingham Street near Marins Mill Road in NE Philly.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    They still make it! My 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis still has whitewalls, but they're a skinny 1/4" stripe.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'd have been afraid to drive it too - sketchy reliability and minimal parts support.

    Yeah, I could only imagine, this was in northern Indiana too. God knows where he got it serviced. Maybe someplace in Chicago?

    every now and then I'll see an oldster in something like a Camry or Forester put whitewalls on it - looks hilarious and terrible.

    Yeah, I've seen that too from time to time. Of course, it wouldn't be complete without a fake convertible top.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I think only the 89 5th avs got the airbag. It is a nice old car, great interiors in those.

    My '89 Gran Fury copcar had an airbag. IIRC, Mopar put the driver's airbag into ALL of their cars in the middle of the 1988 model year, so some '88's had them and some didn't.

    My '88 LeBaron had those annoying "passive restraint" seatbelts where the shoulder strap was separate and attached into the door.

    I always wondered what Mopar did with the early '88 M-body, though? The '88 and '89 are pretty rare though, and I can't remember the last time I even saw an '88, let alone paid enough attention to it to see what kind of seatbelts it had.

    I think they only built about 5500 Gran Furys in 1989, which, I believe, makes that the rarest car I've ever owned. In contrast, I think they made around 12-13,000 '57 DeSoto Firedome hardtop coupes, around 10,000 '67 Catalina convertibles, and close to 15,000 '76 Grand LeMans coupes. Not that any of those figures are exactly rare, but I think it's a bit interesting that one of the rarest cars I've ever owned was also one of the newest!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    That is a beautiful color on that car. Price doesn't seem too horrible, either. I'll usually see a few of those turn up at the Mopar show in Carlisle and other old car events. The really nice ones are usually priced higher than that, like around $6K or so....and needless to say, the seller usually ends up going home with them!

    And the more reasonably-priced ones are starting to show a little wear and tear, although given the small number sold, these things seem to have a pretty good survival rate. They were tough, rugged cars, essentially a police car in drag.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,951
    My 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis still has whitewalls, but they're a skinny 1/4" stripe.

    My Grandfather's 04 has the skinny ww too. I think on a GM it still looks good, especially since his has a cloth roof.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    edited April 2011
    I put 'raised white letter' tires on my '72 Duster in high school, thought they looked SHARP :blush: Later, I had a set mounted on my Cherokee, asked the tire guy to put the letters to the inside (thought it looked better). Tire guy: "Oh, you're one of THOSE guys." Still not quite sure what he meant.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    He'd have to go into the city - lots of Euro car places in Chicago, so that had to have been it.

    I haven't seen a fake convertible Subaru, but I have seen an old man in a whitewalled Forester. I have seen a fake convertible 97-01 Camry in my area, begging for whitewalls. A fake convertible Amanti I see now and then could also pull it off.

    I remember back when I was away at school, my mother mentioned her 2nd gen Taurus needed tires - I told her to be sure to have the whitewalls aimed inwards, as the car would look silly with them.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Remember "Portawalls"?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    "Portawalls

    Now we are going back a while. I can't say I have any experience with those.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think you can still buy them, for people who want to use them on radial tires. I think VW Beetle specialty vendors still sell them. You're supposed to put tubes in your radials so that they puff up the tires and then the "portawalls" will look better.

    Silly stuff, this.

    Everything turns around. In the 'teens and 1920s blackwalls were considered prestigious and whitewalls were just tires made with white rubber, and more common. This seems to have turned around in the 30s.

    Then, thin whitewalls came out in the 60s so that the tire didn't look so fat in the wheel well.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'd worry about those coming off, or not being perfectly centered.

    Thinking of tires, I think next year might be the time for the fintail to get a new set. They will be about 13 or so years old then. I've always wanted to get a correct set of wide whites, and I think I will this time around

    image

    image
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    I saw one of the early ones with the plastic rear window....I haven't seen one of those in ages.
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited April 2011
    "Westley's Bleche-Wite and a toothbrush also does an awesome job! I use the Brillos if they get really scuffed or filthy. "

    I am in total agreement about this product. I buy it for the gangster wide whitewalls on my Studebaker but it cleans black tires on my other vehicles just as well. It takes the dirty brown stuff right off. I get my wide whitewalls from this company. http://www.cokertire.com/
    image
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    DSCN6154">
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited April 2011
    Looks like a 130H ca. 1935...I think the snout is too short to be a 170.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Too old for mystery car pix, rear engine pre war (1930s) Mercedes so I'll guess the 130. The black wall tires seem to fit the purposeful look of the car. Now that guy with his hands in his pockets seems to have spotted something very interesting back there. Is this the car with the gas tank mounted on the engine?
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    Yes, a 130H - something else I've never seen outside a museum before. - and yes, omarman, I think it does have the petrol tank over the engine, although I didn't take a picture of the engine, so can't be sure...
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    DSCN6188">
    DSCN6190">
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Weird...judging by the rear origin badge it is a prewar car, but an obvious postwar body in the Italian style. Probably not a supercharged car, so a larger normal car like a 320.

    Have you ever been to the new MB museum, magnette? Or any of the other German maker-operated museums?
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    Only BMW in Munich, and that was about 18 years ago - oh, I also went to the Technical museum there, that had some cars.. You must have been to M-B, any others?

    According to the note on the windscreen this would be prewar by US standards, but very much wartime by ours - although rebodied post-war.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Seeing as you going to Germany is the same as me going about 2 states away, I'd have thought you would hit them all. You should. The new MB museum is amazing, the new Porsche and BMW facilies are as well. The Audi and VW museums are also nothing to complain about. I know you'd find something worthy in them. But I have to give top marks to the MB facility, for its sheer size and scope, and my vehicle tastes don't hurt it.

    Prewar is a funny term...I look at vehicles made in the style as being prewar, even if being built wartime.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    I can do a city trip to Frankfurt or Essen shows, but to go to Germany itself, i.e. to tour, would require either hiring a car or something, and takes timeout from regular holidays too - I actually get 25 days paid holiday a year, but that has to include trips to relatives, etc, we usually want about ten days to two weeks away in the summer - and a few long weekends here too. It all adds up, but I must admit I quite fancy doing what you did a while back and cruising through Europe from museum to museum, etc - just not a thing my partner would enjoy, though - she likes to see the odd car, but would put her foot down at a tour to all that lot !

    This car is from 1940, rebodied after the war, apparently, by a German coachbuilder, who I must confess I knew nothing about at all, and I think is aluminium.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yeah, I had never seen that rebodied car before, just guessing based on the pics.

    If I lived in Britain I'd probably be in Germany every other weekend ...take a cheap flight, rent a nice car, and do some high speed driving. That's the ultimate vacation to me.

    My trip before last was pretty ideal - hit almost all of the automotive scenes I could think of. I wanted to do something again this fall, but my employer will be undergoing some reorganization next year, and I want to make sure I will be collecting a paycheck in 12 months before I spend so much - so no big trips for 2011. Maybe next year if everything works out - I want to go back to Stuttgart, go to the big museum in Mulhouse, hang out at Nurburgring, and see Monte Carlo. Sometimes its nice being single :shades:
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    According to the sign in the window, this is a 320 (W 142 IV), built 1940, rebodied by Wenler
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    edited April 2011
    I really want to do Mulhouse, above all others...
    Apparently Alfa have their museum shut for a while and they had a big show of cars at Essen accordingly.
    The museum in Brussels - Autoworld I think it is called - was really good about 15 years ago...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yeah, I plan for a full day at Mulhouse, heck, the MB museum took most of a day for me.

    I was surprised that the Swiss Transport museum in Luzern had some interesting things...it was cool seeing a Miura and a Tatra T77 in the same place.

    Maybe the next trip I could branch out of the area.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    We tend to go to Italy every two years or so - and its only a matter of time before I get to some of their museums...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I want to stay the hotel in Turin that was once a Fiat factory.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I get so tired of reading in mags/Consumer Guide publications, stuff like 350's were widely available during this time frame in Malibus, 3.8's could be had in '79 Malibus, etc. etc. etc., I decided to look online at the actual brochures themselves, in the "Old Car Manuals" project (you can google it).

    My memory was wrong on this: One could indeed get a 305 4-barrel in '79 and '80 Malibus and Monte Carlos in all states. The 267 2-barrel was also available and this is what I remember seeing in all mid-size '79-80 Chevys at our PA dealer. In CA, and on cars equipped with High Altitude Emission Equipment, one could get the 3.8 Buick V6, and only in cars with High Altitude Emission Equipment could one get the 350 4-barrel, but in wagons only.

    In '81, the 305 4-barrel was only available on wagons outside of CA. The 267 was NA in CA.

    In '82, the 350 diesel V8 and 262 diesel V6 became available.

    Of course, in '80 and '81 the Monte Carlo 3.8 (Buick) Turbo was available.

    From '80 on, the Chevy-built 229 V6 was standard. In '78 and '79 it was a 200 CID V6 (3.3 L).

    In '83, the 229 V6 and 305 4-barrel V8 were available around the country. The 267 V8 was gone.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited April 2011
    I get so tired of reading in mags/Consumer Guide publications, stuff like 350's were widely available during this time frame in Malibus, 3.8's could be had in '79 Malibus, etc. etc. etc., I decided to look online at the actual brochures themselves, in the "Old Car Manuals" project (you can google it).

    I think GM actually had a mandate that nothing bigger than a 301 or 305 could go in those downsized intermediates, although the various divisions still wanted bigger engines. I think it had something to do with the EPA and getting the engines certified, and GM didn't want to go through with that.

    There was one loophole though. If they took an existing engine/transmission combination that had already been tested and certified in another car, they could use it without getting it tested, provided they built less than 2500 examples. So, this is how Olds was able to make the '79 Cutlass Supreme Hurst...take the existing Olds 350 and transmission out of the Delta 88/98, put it in the Cutlass, and only build 2,499!

    I'm not sure what tricks GM pulled to get 350's into Chevies, but that high-altitude/clean air thing might have something to do with it. IIRC, 4-bbl carbs tended to run cleaner than 2-bbl, because of the smaller primaries, so a 350-4bbl, even if it used more fuel, would still do better in emissions than a 305-2-bbl.

    It's a shame that more 350-sized engines weren't offered in those downsized intermediates. I'm sure they would've been good performers, what with 600-1000 lb of weight knocked off, compared to the '73-77 models.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Although I think GM did a better job with the '77-79 full-size cars, I still like the '78-81 midsize cars (Malibu especially) for looks and packaging. The availability of the 305 4-barrel is a surprise to me.

    I never noticed this on Monte Carlos, but it seems like Malibus always needed front springs in two years with V8's. Apparently they didn't have the HD suspension up front, that the Monte had with the longer hood and front sheetmetal. Also, all '78-80 Montes had the stiff suspension standard, and 205 tires.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Although I think GM did a better job with the '77-79 full-size cars, I still like the '78-81 midsize cars (Malibu especially) for looks and packaging. The availability of the 305 4-barrel is a surprise to me.

    I thought the coupes and wagons looked really good, but never cared for the roof on the '78-80 sedan. It just seemed too big for the rest of the car. IMO, they improved the looks alot for 1981, when they went to the more formal C-pillar and moved the vent windows to the rear doors, as in the wagons.

    The Century/Cutlass sedans adopted this roof for 1980, dropping that clumsy aeroback roof, and sales took off. When the Malibu/LeMans did it for 1981, sales results weren't as dramatic. But then, while the economy was turning bad in '80, it got even worse for '81. And the '78-80 Malibu and LeMans sedan roof wasn't as awkward as the '78-79 Century/Cutlass. I think the '81 Malibu saw a slight decline in sales, while the '81 LeMans stayed around the same, or perhaps even improved ever so slightly.

    I really liked the "Baby Caprice" look of the '82-83 Malibu. However, I've always wondered if the reason it came to look like that was that GM was intending to get rid of the Malibu, and then rebrand it as a second-wave downsized Caprice, like what Pontiac did with the Bonneville G? I'm glad they never went through with that!

    I think an '83 Malibu sedan with a 305 and upgraded interior would make for a nice car. Just with full power. If I can't get those back windows to roll down, I at least want to see those little vents flip open under their own power!
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited April 2011
    You could still order a 1983 Malibu in 9C1 trim with the 305/4bbl and get all the heavy duty bits + handling pieces. This page has a link to the 1983 Chevrolet 9C1 brochure as a pdf attachment.

    Here's a motley crew of police cars tested in 1984 by Popular Mechanics. The Malibu was gone from 9C1 service and in its place was the V6 Celebrity. Also tested in police trim was the Mustang, Chevy Impala (still with the 5.7 V8), Dodge Diplomat and Plymouth Reliant turbo. I like the Mustang. :)
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited April 2011
    Turbo K-car police car...I assume that one never got out of prototype stage. Look at those 1/4 mile times...it's good for them the radio is hard to outrun :shades:

    I remember when the WSP had fleets of Mustangs.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Here's the Michigan State Police test results of the Malibu, from my copcar book...

    1979: First year for the copcar package on the downsized Malibu. In '78, they used Novas. MSP didn't test a Malibu, but a tester called Police Product News (PPN) ran one at International Raceway in CA. With the 350-4bbl, they got 0-60 in 8.9 seconds, and 0-100 in 28.5. In comparison, the Volare copcar with a 360-4bbl did 0-60 in 8.7, and 0-100 in 22.8.

    1980: 305-4bbl, 0-60 in 12.8, 1/4 mile in 19.2@73.5 mph
    1980: 350-4bbl, 0-60 in 12.3, 1/4 mile in 19.0@74.5 mph

    1981: 350-4bbl, 0-60 in 11.42, 1/4 mile in 18.15@74.75 mph

    1982: 229-2bbl, 0-60 in 17.99, 1/4 mile in 21.85@65.25 mph
    1982: 350-4bbl, 0-60 in 13.29, 1/4 mile in 19.53@72.5 mph

    1983: 305-4bbl, 0-60 in 11.71, 1/4 mile in 18.78@75.0 mph.

    Oh yeah, almost forgot, the other day Lemko asked how a '79 LTD with a 351-2bbl stacked up. Here's the big-car results from '79:

    St. Regis, 360-4bbl, 0-60 in 10.1 seconds, 0-100 in 30.2 seconds, 122.9 mph top speed
    Newport, 360-4bbl, 0-60 in 10.2 seconds, 0-100 in 31.5 seconds, 121.3 mph top speed
    Impala 350-4bbl, 0-60 in 11.1 seconds, 0-100 in 35.3 seconds, 112.5 mph top speed
    LTD, 351-2bbl, 0-60 in 12.3 seconds, 0-100 in 63.3 seconds, 105.4 mph top speed
    LTD-II, 351-2bbl, 0-60 in 14.8 seconds, 0-600 in 66.7 seconds, 111.1 mph top speed
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    I didn't know about the factory in the Fiat plant in Turin....
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited April 2011
    I thought the coupes and wagons looked really good, but never cared for the roof on the '78-80 sedan.

    I agree. At first, I didn't like on the '81 how the vertical glass divider wasn't parallel with the cut of the rear door...a similar thing about the "B" pillar on '77-79 Cadillac Fleetwoods also used to bug me. But I do think the '81 Malibu sedan certainly looked more formal and elegant than the '78-80 sedan. I also liked how, on the '81 Malibu Classic, there was an expanse of gloss 'piano black' trim on the instrument panel, instead of that awful "plood" the Monte Carlo used. In '83, both the Malibu and Monte Carlo got (IMHO) a great-looking dark, relatively flat wood instrument panel insert, and the instrument and trim surrounds were done in a gold pinstripe. I did like that a lot.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
This discussion has been closed.