I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

A kind of light tan-beige W126 300SD, dirty, dented, loud, has turned up in the parking garage where I live. I kind of like it.

Mr_Shiftright

do they come any other way? :P

fintail

The rear end wasn't sooty anyway, so maybe it's better than average. Severe dent on the drivers side though, like it slid sidways into a pole or got slammed by something with a sharp corner.

Mr_Shiftright

Poor Mercedes diesels often fall into the wrong hands.

fintail

Yeah, this is a ~30 year old car with probably 300K miles on it...not the high time of its life. But it keeps going and going.

Mr_Shiftright

Great cars, but you know, if you add up all the repairs in those 300K miles, it's probably not worth driving them that long. They don't really "run for 300,000" miles as claimed, as much as they stagger and crawl for 300,000 miles due to all the deferred maintenance and repairs. Often, when I come across one of these high-milers, I can find enough wrong with them to total them just by driving them around the block...bad injectors, leaking oil everywhere, collapsed rear suspension, bad tires, bad brakes, bad shifting, no AC, torn seats, cracked glass....but, still running, that's true, if you call that running.

I was looking for a while for a TD wagon as a second car, but after driving a dozen of them, I just gave up. They were all screwed up in one way or another and not worth repairing.

Best approach is what one guy does---he completely rebuilds them, every nut and bolt, and sells them as basically new cars for big bucks.

texases

It seems folks *need* to believe that old MB diesels run just about forever. The one article I've seen about a 'million mile' MB diesel mentioned that the engine had been rebuilt about every 250k. No surprise.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly. I could drive a Yugo for one million miles if I was willing to keep fixing it. 10 millions miles, why not?

lemko

...rough looking faded and oxidized teal blue 1965 Pontiac Tempest 4-door sedan in the parking lot at work. I hope this isn't somebody's restoration project. He'll never get his money back.

fintail

Yeah, they run for 300K, but without proper care, they won't run well. An ill maintained diesel is a terribly smoky, slow, loud, and shaky beast.

The old heap in my garage actually sounds like it runs pretty OK. A little loud, but no smoke plumes or shaking - I saw it last night and it seemed roadworthy. But for one of those cars, like most late malaise beasts, best to look for an enthusiast or little old lady owned car, not a hippie owned car. You'll never get back up to spec.

You can find nice TDs out there, but you'll pay for it.

Latest odd car - ca. 1980 Caprice, the facelift after downsizing. Oxidized red, look like it had won a demo derby - but still moving along. Future donk?

uplanderguy

Latest odd car - ca. 1980 Caprice, the facelift after downsizing. Oxidized red, look like it had won a demo derby - but still moving along. Future donk?

I think they goofed up the '77-79 Caprice styling in '80. It looked bigger, if that was the desired effect, but as one car magazine of the day put it, "This car lost the crisp, chiseled look it was born with".

lemko

I kind of liked the 1980-85 Caprice. I thought those flush square taillamps looked very clean.

tjc78

Saw one just like that yesterday in silver. Looked faded but otherwise ok.

jwm40517

Saw a red Bricklin drive by yesterday. looked good, but I only got a quick look at it. Lexington KY

kyfdx

Probably owned by some retired professor at UK...

Philosophy prof.. not engineering.. lol

Mr_Shiftright

excellent tail lamps for a postal vehicle actually. :P

ab348

To my eye, the '80-up Caprice looked thinner and flimsier than the earlier 3 years. The '79 was my favorite of that generation. We had a '79 Impala when it was new and it was a very good car, albeit unexciting. But it was whisper-quiet, handled decently, and had lots of room.

uplanderguy

We had a '77 Impala Coupe, bought new in Nov. '76. I liked it in most every way better than our '74 Impala Sport Coupe. Rode smoother/tauter, very quiet, roomy interior, crisp styling reminiscent of the Seville, better acceleration than the '74 and better MPG. The only place the '74 did better was in interior width.

Lemko, that particular Caprice does look nice, I admit. Those taillights do look better than the '86 and later models.

I remember there was no '83 Caprice coupe; then it was reintroduced for '84. I also remember you couldn't get bucket seats in a Monte Carlo in '83, and they were re-introduced for '84. Weird.

uplanderguy

I do remember the '83 Caprice made Car and Driver's "Ten Best Cars in the World" issue. Pretty impressive for a car that was basically in its seventh year of production.

lemko

My first new car was a black 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic. I hated the taillamps though. I wished they'd have kept the 1980-85 ones or came up with a better design than this:

andre1969

To my eye, the '80-up Caprice looked thinner and flimsier than the earlier 3 years.

They did lower the hood and raise the rear deck a bit, which helped aerodynamics, and gave it an extra foot or two of trunk space. They also managed to trim about 150-160 lb from the sedans and coupes, and around 100 lb from the wagon. Initially I thought that a lot of that weight savings came from the 6-cyl being a switch from the 250-inline to the 229 V-6, but my book shows that 150-160 lb coming up in 6-cyl AND V-8 cars.

I didn't care for the rear of the '80-85 Caprice as much in that restyle. It had sort of an unfinished look to it, and I always thought the rear tailights looked like they were stamped out with a cookie cutter.

I actually had a preference for the Impala in every year, from '77-85. IMO, the grille was more pleasing to the eye than the Caprice, which was a bit more pretentious.

Still, I wouldn't turn down a nice example of either, from any of those years. Well, unless it had a Diesel or undersized engine!

uplanderguy

I actually had a preference for the Impala in every year, from '77-85. IMO, the grille was more pleasing to the eye than the Caprice, which was a bit more pretentious.

I know what you mean, Andre. Sometimes I feel like that too...and I especially feel that way about the '71-76 big Chevys. The Caprice seemed to be too much to be a "pretend Cadillac".

The Caprice dash from '77 on looked a lot nicer than the Impala's, though...woodgrain where it was needed and that neat glossy black panel above the glove box.

I remember at our local dealer's, seeing a loaded '77 Impala sedan that someone had ordered in. Vinyl top, the 50/50 split front seat with dual center armrests (you almost never saw this on Impalas), digital clock, 350 engine....someone else obviously felt the same way as you!

explorerx4

went to the website and they have a picture
Old Saybrook PD

ab348

A '77 Impala like that would have been very cool, but it would have been even better if it was a coupe and if it came with the F41 suspension. I wonder, though, if loading up an Impala with the deluxe seats and all the other options would make it almost the same price as a Caprice?

uplanderguy

A '77 Impala like that would have been very cool, but it would have been even better if it was a coupe and if it came with the F41 suspension. I wonder, though, if loading up an Impala with the deluxe seats and all the other options would make it almost the same price as a Caprice?

The car I remembered stickered at $7,000-and a few odd dollars. Even on a Caprice I'd have bought the optional 50/50 front seat too. I can remember the most-expensive '77 Caprice Coupe I ever saw stickered at $7,700. It had the optional Custom interior with 50/50 seats, 350, F41, two-tone silver and gray paint, etc. Beautiful car. Our '77 Impala coupe stickered at $5,503. All it had was the optional wheel opening moldings, body side moldings, whitewalls, full wheel covers, bumper guards, and AM radio. It had the 305. I still enjoyed the car. It was bright red with red interior.

berri

I saw a 64 Pontiac Catalina 4dr sedan in that typical for the era GM blue, perhaps the most conspicuous of the vertical headlight craze in the mid sixties. I think Mopar started it in the US with the 61/62 Chrysler (and aborted 61 DeSoto), although some might argue that technically they were angled headlights. Not surprisingly, Virgil Exner was an early adopter of quad headlights in 57 as well. I think Pontiac went with them the longest (63-67), while Ford had them in 65-67, and the Plymouth Fury 65-68.

Although likely just a styling gimmick, I wonder if there was any technical advantage to vertically stacked headlights? My thoughts are that the bottom, horizontally focused bright lights might have obstructed the top, downward focused low beams hurting close in road viewing when the brights were on, but then headlights weren't all that great back then so it probably didn't really matter.

Anyone got any thoughts on vertical headlights?

jwilliams2

I've only had two cars with vertical quad headlights. A '65 Mercury Cyclone and a '66 Cyclone GT, both bought new. I thought they worked better than my previous cars, but then, they only had single lights. And they did light up the interior of a low slung car in front of you at a stoplight.

fintail

NA-spec 60s MB have stacked lights too:



I don't know if there is any benefit, but they can look good

andre1969

Did a Caprice have anything standard that was extra-cost on an Impala? Or was it just a matter of nicer interiors and more trim?

A '77 Impala Sport Coupe base priced at $4,996 with the 305, while the Caprice Classic coupe was $5,307, so there was a $311 premium on the Caprice. I'd presume they both had power steering and power brakes standard, perhaps an AM radio as well. A/C would have been optional on either, as would rear window defrost, any kind of sound system upgrade, cruise, tilt wheel, power seat/windows/locks/mirrors, and so on. And I'd imagine a split bench seat was optional on both, although the Caprice might have given you a standard center armrest.

Adjusting for inflation, that $311 in '77 would be like ~$1250 today. So, not exactly a small chunk of change.

berri

I recall Impala's rapidly being de-contented after the downsizing. I thought the first few years of those 77 GM full size cars were pretty impressive for the time. However going into the eighties they seemed to become too boxy and cheap material.

uplanderguy

The Caprice had standard full wheel covers, electric analog clock, and wheel opening moldings, that were all optional on the Impala. Everything else that was optional on the Impala, was also optional on the Caprice. Both came standard with no radio, and the 250 L6. Both came standard with Turbo-Hydramatic, power steering, and power disc brakes, although when you got the 350 engine you got a bigger version of the Turbo-Hydramatic.

To this day, I would love a firethorn '77 Caprice Classic coupe, white vinyl top, body side moldings, the plastic, scooped-out spoked wheel covers, F41 and the related pinstripe-whitewall Goodyear Eagle tires, Custom interior with the velour seats and chromed interior door-handle escutcheons, full instrumentation, windows and locks, digital clock, 350. I remember a car just like this in our hometown, except a sedan, owned by the guy who owned the local office-supply store. It was striking.

andre1969

To this day, I would love a firethorn '77 Caprice Classic coupe...

Considering what an unloved era the late 70's were, I find that there's a LOT of cars from that timeframe that I'd love to own. I think my favorite '77 would be a fully-decked out Catalina coupe or sedan with a 400 or 403, I'd be more than happy with ANY GM B/C-body, provided it had an engine of 350 CID or bigger. Well, okay, I could deal with a Chevy with a 305, but I'm leery of anything with the 301.

andre1969

I recall Impala's rapidly being de-contented after the downsizing. I thought the first few years of those 77 GM full size cars were pretty impressive for the time. However going into the eighties they seemed to become too boxy and cheap material.

I liked the fact that in '77-79 at least, they tried to differentiate the styling on the coupe roofs. The Chevies had that wraparound rear window, while the Delta 88 had a small, formal rear window and a big C-pilllar, while the LeSabre/Catalina/Bonneville shared a large, triangular quarter window.

But in 1980, when they did the restyle, it seems like they all went for the same formal notchback roofline. I think there was still some slight differentiation in the quarter window, but it was marginal.

explorerx4

A Blue Saab 900 Turbo convertible exiting a very exclusive Country Club.
Next door to that I saw a green Spitfire with hardtop and a Jeep Grand Wagoneer.

ab348

Actually I think the first use of vertical stacks was the late 50s Lincolns. I never had one myself but when I was a kid my dad had several, all Pontiacs - '63, '65, and '67. It always seemed to me that vertical stacked lights limited what the stylists could do to some extent -- most cars with them looked similar. The '67 Pontiac was a rare exception to that.

berri

I think you're right about Lincolns - 58-60. They were also a bit angled like the 61 Chrysler.

andre1969

Actually I think it was a tie...'57 Lincoln and '57 Nash. Both had stacked headlights, standard, which is odd, considering quad headlights weren't legalized in all 50 states yet.

I think Lincoln got around it by having the upper headlight be the regular high beam/low beam, and the lower light was a smaller "driving light" or something like that. I'm not sure how Nash got around it, though. Maybe they built so few that nobody cared and it got overlooked.

berri

Almost forgot - I think Nash actually introduced them during their 57 model year, although the mid fifties Lincoln's kind of looked like they were ready for them before they actually appeared.

berri

Funny - we tied!

ab348

Our '77 Impala coupe stickered at $5,503. All it had was the optional wheel opening moldings, body side moldings, whitewalls, full wheel covers, bumper guards, and AM radio. It had the 305. I still enjoyed the car. It was bright red with red interior.

The '79 we owned sounded very similar, though ours was a 4-door. Equipment was identical except we had a remote mirror and had the dealer install a matching non-remote version on the passenger side. Ours was the ubiquitous Dark Carmine Metallic with a red interior.

In '97 I needed a beater and bought a $2000 '78 Delta 88 sedan in the same Dark Carmine color. I put some money into it and a lot more effort in scouring wrecking yards for various upgrades. It was dead-reliable in the 5 years I had it. It was a great highway car, smooth-riding and quiet. The 350 Rocket was very good.

uplanderguy

That's a nice Delta 88. Looks like it's wearing wheel covers from a later Delta. That dark carmine metallic was a great color...probably my favorite '79 color. My friend's Dad was a Chevy/Buick dealer Service Manager and for a demo had a dark carmine '79 Caprice Classic Landau, dark carmine top and interior, and it was a 350. Didn't have the F41 suspension though.

ab348

Yeah, it had aftermarket plastic wire covers when I got it - those had to go. The ones on it when those pics were taken were the "space disc" covers from an early-80s Delta, all I could find at the time. Later on I found a set of the proper style covers for it and those looked much better. Also was interested to find that the earlier covers were much heavier and more robust than the space discs, which where very flimsy and lightweight.

uplanderguy

It does seem like starting in '80, the full-size GM cars got lighter and lighter-duty in some ways. The 350 engine was gone in Chevys, available only with the anemic 229 V6 or 267 V8. The 305 wasn't available again until the '83 model year (in at least all states except California). Not sure about wagons; I'm talking coupes and sedans.

andre1969

Really? I thought the 305 was still offered in the Impala/Caprice, through all those years? You're right about the 350 though, which was dumped after 1979, with the exception of police cars. However, even there it wasn't so hot. In Michigan State Police testing, the Impala with the 350 failed because it took too long to hit 100 mph. I forget what their standard was, but the Impala couldn't do it.

I'm pretty sure the big Chevy wagons always had the 305 standard, although around 1987, they started putting Olds 307's in the wagons. It had less hp, but a bit more torque, so maybe it was a better match.

Now in the midsized cars, they dropped the 305 after 1980, with the exception of the Malibu wagon. Coupes, sedans, and Monte Carlos only had the 229 or 267, until the 305 came back in '83.

One thing I always thought was interesting, with the big 1980 Pontiacs...if you bought a California Catalina or Bonneville and wanted a V-8, you got the Olds 350! But in the other 49 states, you were stuck with the 265 or 301. That was probably one of the few times that the CA cars got a better engine than the other 49 states!

fintail

Today's oddities - was out in the fintail and got an approving glance from a guy in a decent original looking light blue 64 or so Valiant-Dart 2 door HT, saw a late 40s Jeepster on the highway - driver wasn't relaxed, and saw 3x W126 - a 300SD, a later LWB model, and a 500SEL with period Centra wheels.

texases

The high points this weekend-'64 Falcon and a '63-ish 230SL.

lemko

My first new car was a black 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic with an oddball 4.3 V-6 engine.

tjc78

I have the 4.3 in my 99 S10. I can't imagine that engine in a sedan. It seems so much better suited for trucks.

uplanderguy

I have a pretty good (but not infallible!) memory for such things. I am nearly (nearly) certain that a 305 wasn't available in a Chevrolet passenger car in the 49 states (excluding CA) in the '80-82 model years, except Camaro and possibly the full-size wagons. The 267 was a two-barrel, and the 305 which was re-introduced in the Malibu, Monte Carlo, and full-size lines for the '83 model year was a 4-barrel only and a huge improvement over the 267. We had both in our family, and the difference was night-and-day. I remember 267's in '79 Malibus and Monte Carlos and don't remember seeing a single 305 in those lines of cars for '79 either. We lived in PA at the time.

dieselone

My dad had a '79 Caprice wagon with a 305. I was kid back then, but I remember my dad always moaning about how slow it was, particularly with a load of people and the a/c on.