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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)
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Actually, I've been toying with the idea of getting this! 5.84 acres, last house on the left on a dead-end street. It has a big garage, something like 32x54 feet on the premises. And it's secluded enough that you could store a bunch of junk and not have it be visible from the road. And if you look at the aerial photograph, it looks like the current owner is doing just that!
It's about 5 miles from work, still nice and close, although that does double my commute! :P The downside though, is that it's still in the same county, which means you pay a premium in property taxes to fund all the political corruption and lackluster government service.
In my neighborhood even in this market, that money would buy a 1 bedroom midrise condo of average quality, or maybe a 2 bedroom horrible old condoized apartment from the 70s.
My place is probably worth more. Even though it has a bit less land (4.28 acres), it's on a better road, isn't sandwiched by high tension wires, the Amtrak Northeast Corridor, and a 4-lane road, and would be easier for a developer to subdivide it. And it's also not oddly shaped. Most of the value of my place is in the land, as the house is old (1916) and needs a lot of work. But, the builders aren't exactly beating a path to my door (I did get a couple offers back around 2004-2006, but those days are ancient history).
Honestly, this place almost seems cheap at $224,900...makes me wonder what's wrong with it. It's been on the market for over a year and a half, as I remember driving by it back in January 2010 to check it out, and thinking damn, this is tempting! My guess is that most people really just don't want an old house that might need work, and few other than developers and a handful of recluses see the value in a large lot.
In one sprawling community a few miles to the east of me, built in the 60's, it's actually been common for people to take the garages and convert them into living space! Back when it was new, one big selling point of that community WAS the fact that every house came standard with a 1 or 2 car garage. But, I guess over the years, people figured they'd rather have an extra room, or space to store junk, rather than a place for their cars.
In this country, I wonder if more garage spaces are actually devoted to living space or storing junk, rather than housing a car? Back when I lived in my condo, of the 8 residences in our court, only one garage was actually used to house a car that was used as a daily driver. I always used mine to house either the DeSoto or Catalina, but the daily driver sat outside. One of them had a pop-up trailer in it. One guy was storing a late 80's Cavalier, for whatever odd reason. One had a pool table in it. The other three had junk in them.
Now that I think about it, my next door neighbors to the right have a two car garage, but it's filled with tools, furniture, and probably a lot of junk they don't need. The house to the left has a two car garage, but the people renting it always park in the driveway. The lady in back has a 1 car garage, but always parks outside.
And, I guess I'm somewhat guilty myself, since I had a 4-car garage built, yet can only get three in there!
Garage probably is solid anyway. I couldn't get that much land with a house for that much money within an hour of an employment center here.
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I couldn't agree more fintail. In my neighborhood I would say a little over half do not use the garage. When you see it open, its crammed full of junk.
I can't imagine not being able to garage my car, just one of those quirks about me I guess. I've got some neighbors who have both bought new cars within the past 18 months and don't think twice about leaving them outside rain or shine. Baffles me that they wouldn't want to garage probably at total of 50k in automobiles, but each to his own.
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Driving in I saw a 1963 Thunderbird driving toward me in these colors. I believe this was the right year.
Later, after visiting a shop on the downtown square around the courthouse building that takes up the whole block, I saw this convertible gliding through with the top down. The color is a definite coral. The picture looks more pink than it should.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What I like most is the local 7-figure range houses (or behemoths) where the garages are so full of junk, the Range Rovers and Cayennes must sleep outside. Of course, a lot of hard work likely didn't buy them to begin with.
Back on topic...Love that coral color on the 56 'bird. That pic doesn't do it justice. I always thought that was a very good and period correct color on those.
Too bad Ford muffed the redeaux on the T-bird. It could have been a real "halo" car for them.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
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For the retro Bird, I thought it was kind of beige and expensive - you can't pull that off unless you are a Japanese highline maker. The front end was especially dull to me, hard to remake the forward leaning T-Bird roadster face.
it was late to market
production problems...engine fan was prone to catching fire
poor performance
floaty suspension
Styling could have been a bit more agressive, but then the lack of performance and handling would have been that much more ridiculed if it looked sporty.
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When you *really* have a problem is when you cherish things like a garbage bag full of .99 cuddly bears from Walmart over your BMW motorcycle. Then you need to call an ambulance. :P
That last part reminds me of the "Chasing Classic Cars" episode where the nut in California had a 300SL roadster languishing under a tarp in his backyard, and a garage full of junk. At least the east coast Dino guy had the brains to put his car in some kind of portable covered storage.
Since the era of one car families and one car garages, we as a country have gone through several periods of conspicuous consumption and bottom line, some of us just have a lot of junk. Not to mention the fact that you will get the green police on you if you try to throw out an old chair or the like, so that ends op sitting in the garage.
I remember both of those episodes and still cringe when I think of the Merc under the tarp. The Dino fared better, but not by much. Lots of mouse damage as I recall.
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Good example of that here:1985 Nissan 300zx on ebay right now. It may be one of the best survivors from the Disney/Tron age of asian imports, but who cares? Imagine if this were a spiffy, 90K mile survivor Datsun from the early 70s. Lots of emotional attachment/interest in the 240z/510 era.
Yeah, I think that Dino had some animals in it. But in that climate, had it sat under a tarp, it would be gone. Wayne bought it, so it must have been reclaimable.
Regarding that 80s Z-car...no emotion from me either, and I was a kid when those were new. Paint probably isn't original either, seems too red and shiny. I like the digital dash anyway.
"Maticulous"...I agree
For the carpenter
Maybe the best one left...hope you don't like ventilation
Early milestone
I wouldn't kick it out of my garage
How I would have ordered one - decent colors, no vinyl, wheels
Fun ad
Healthy bids
1940???
Yikes
Buy one like this, never restore it yourself...my fintail wants those tires
Has to be about the last one left
Bridging the gap between the 50s and 60s
Period colors
Fun little car for in town driving
Needs to go back to the continent
Cross between a MB W116 and a 70s Chrysler
Clean commiecar
Getting the most life out of a design
The '61 Bonneville convertible is unbelievably attractive to me. The colors are just perfect. I would love to have something like that but would be afraid to drive it. What a pretty car.
I don't think I'd want to drive very far on those '70s-vintage GM-Spec radials on that Pontiac coupe. Don't see too many of them any more.
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One of the comments posted was, "A beautiful car is like a beautiful woman. Give it lots of care and attention and both of them can take you to the moon. Cue the fireworks.
I kinda like that '77 Bonneville. I'm starting to find that, the older I get, I'm becoming more tolerant of those browns I used to hate when I was younger. It's a shame the seller didn't list what engine that car has. I was able to decipher it from the VIN...it's a Pontiac 350-4bbl, same engine that my '76 LeMans has. I think Most Bonnevilles just had the 301-2-bbl, which was neither powerful nor durable. Not that a 170 hp 350 is a powerhouse, but it's tolerable, at least.
As for that '61 Bonneville, well '61 is actually my favorite year for the big 60's Pontiacs. I like the fact that they still offered leather on the seats in the Bonneville at that time. That made it seems a bit more classy and luxurious. I think you could get leather through 1964. The '65 and later Bonnevilles were still nice cars, but did seem a bit of a step down. I miss those multi-colored interiors, but as the 60's marched on, I guess they eventually got associated with being old-fashioned.
I like the seats in that Pontiac, so perfect for that point in time.
I have to believe by 1990 those Avantis were selling to the same people who thought a Zimmer or Tiffany was sensible.
If any of my cars get mouse damage two lazy cats are getting tossed!
They were Monte Carlo chassis up through '88, then were Caprice chassis with a section taken out (ick). My friend said the joke around the plant was to refer to the cars as "AvantiCarlos" or "MontAvantis".
I had a serious mouse problem the first winter after my garage was finished. Luckily, they didn't seem to do any permanent damage, but I used to find trails of mouse poop along the rear plastic trim piece on my LeMans, which covers the gap between the bumper and the rear of the body. And one morning, I went to start up my '79 5th Ave, and as I was backing out of the garage, a mouse jumped out from under the hood and tried to scurry up the windshield! Scared the holy sugar out of me!
I put out a trap and I think I caught about 6 or 7 mice, plus something that looked sorta like a mouse but was cuter. I think it was a vole, maybe? That spring, I found a gap near the foundation where I thought they were probably getting in, plugged it, and haven't had a problem since.
Beautiful car, but for some reason it seems you see more 62's and they get more attention? I think the 61 is much nicer. I think a lot of people underate 61 GM and Bill Mitchell's initial watch vehicles.
1962 was the year the Grand Prix came out, so maybe that's one reason they're more fondly remembered? And, the economy was stil bouncing back from the '58 recession at that time, so '62 was a better year for just about everybody compared to 1961. Wasn't 1962 also the year that Pontiac knocked Rambler out of third place?
I never was that crazy about the '62 Pontiac, because the headlights just seem like they're mounted too far outward, and I'm not really font of that beak it was starting to sprout. But, I don't think the '61 Pontiac was to everybody's taste, either. I remember my Dad saying he didn't like it, because the grille looked like it was upside down!
I like the '62 Bonneville, but that rear overhang looks ridiculous now IMHO! I do like the curved taillights with the extra extension. I would want a hardtop with bucket seats and console. I don't see them in the brochure but have seen real cars with them.
Seems like a lot of folks like the '61 Ventura Sport Coupe. When one is on eBay or B-J, they seem to get very high prices.
The "mere mortal" Star Chief convertible was only $3105.
In '58, the Bonneville was a somewhat limited, special edition model line, similar to the '58 Impala. The convertible this year was a much more reasonable $3586, but it also took over from the Star Chief that year, so that represented a pretty major step up in price. If you wanted a cheaper Pontiac convertible though, there was the entry-level Chieftain, which was only $3019.
For '59, the Bonneville came down a bit more, to $3478 for the convertible, and for '60-61, it was $3476. It went up a bit for '62, to $3570, but I imagine by then, as the economy improved, inflation probably took off a bit as well, so the higher price didn't necessarily mean more car.
Even by '67, the Bonneville had only gone to $3680. It also seemed cheaper in some respects by that time, as many cars were by then.
I like the 1961 models best of all Chevies of that era, especially the white convertible used in the movie "Goodfellas." When I see a 1961, I think of the TV show "My Three Sons" where they had 1961 Chevrolets going down the road in the closing credits. Chevrolet got good TV advertising during that era including The Dinah Shore Show and Bonanza. Studebaker had Mr. Ed.
Pontiac sold well in the mid 1990s too and seemed to be destined to pass Chevrolet as the sales leader. It was the final ten years of production that finished them.
Actually, Pontiac started running into issues in the 1970s, and did have some rough patches. I think they held a pretty solid third place through most of the 60's, but then IIRC, Plymouth knocked them from that perch for 1971. Pontiac still sold well, though, through 1973, but I think Olds might have taken third for 1972, maybe '73 as well. 1973 was the last year that Pontiac's traditional strong sellers, the LeMans and Catalina, did well. When the oil embargo hit for '74, just about everybody who sold big cars suffered, so it was no big surprise that Pontiac sales shriveled up. Plymouth hit 3rd place again, based mainly on the strength of the compact Valiant and Duster. That was the last year they would do so.
For 1975, big cars saw a bit of a recovery, but at Pontiac, sales of the LeMans and the big cars remained low. Pontiac also trimmed some of the slow selling models, such as the Catalina 4-door hardtop, and the Bonneville pillared 4-door. The Grand Prix began to really take off, though.
For the most part, when GM downsized their full-sized cars, they were a smash hit. Except for Pontiac. The Bonneville sold fairly well, but the Catalina, traditionally the volume seller, fared poorly. And when the midsized cars were re-done for '78, the LeMans was a bit of a disappointment. It sold about 120,000 cars, which was up from 1977's ~80,000. But that was a far cry from 1973's 200K LeManses, plus another ~41k Grand Ams...and in earlier years, the LeMans did even better.
Through the late 70's, Pontiacs biggest successes were the Firebird/Trans Am, Sunbird, and Grand Prix. But in the bread-and-butter intermediate and full-sized markets, they didn't do so hot.
When round two of the gas crunch hit and the country went into recession, again, it seemed like Pontiac was hardest hit. In 1980, they sold about 650,000 cars, and both Buick AND Olds were out-selling them, so Pontiac had slipped to 5th place (Chevy was #1 and Ford was #2) For 1981, they dropped to about 500K, and then around 400k for 1982. By that time, GM was actually considering dropping the brand! In 1983, the industry improved slightly, but Pontiac slipped again, to around 318K units. They also fell to 6th place, behind Mercury. Meanwhile, Olds AND Buick actually outsold Ford, dropping it to 4th place! That was probably the lowest Ford had ranked since, like, almost forever!
1984 was a resurgence year for Pontiac though, led by the Fiero. Laugh if you want, but it was a hot car at the time. Heck, every kid in my 8th and 9th grade classes wanted one. Or if not one of those, we wanted a Firebird like KITT or a Trans Am like the third installation of "Trigger" in "Smokey and the Bandit III!
The rest of the 80's, and 90's, were good to Pontiac, though. But, then, it seemed like they started to stumble in the '00's. The G6 never was as popular as the Grand Prix it replaced, while the Grand Prix increasingly became rental car fodder. And GM was consolidating dealerships more and more into a Buick/Pontiac/GMC (and sometimes Cadillac) conglomerate, and it seemed like Pontiac increasingly got the short end of the stick.
The Firebird/Trans Am was ultimately dropped, when the Camaro died. And, while the 2000+ Bonneville was a fairly noble attempt, the market for a sporty big car was drying up, and the few buyers in that market seemed to go toward Mopar's Intrepid, Concorde, and 300M.
The revived GTO was a bit of a flop. I think it actually sold well the first year, but then dried up fast. It's actually a decent car, but unfortunately, had a lot to live up to with taking on the GTO name, and it couldn't cut it. The styling was a bit plain, looking a bit like an oversized Cavalier. And performance, while good, wasn't so special all of a sudden.
It's a shame they didn't keep Pontiac around, as GM's performance division. However, in today's market, they would have had to position it against the likes of BMW and Audi, I'm guessing, and to do that, the cars would need to be much more premium. I guess if they wanted a bit more sporty mainstream, they could have tried positioning it against Nissan and Mazda, but then that's too close to Chevy territory, and the market just doesn't support that kind of overlap anymore.
Ford did *NOT* fall down on styling or performance like Pontiac did with the new GTO....but man, did they flop with the interior :sick: .
I sat in a brand new 302 yesterday (asked for a test ride and they laughed--couldn't pull rank) and with a sticker of around $43K, I could never pull the trigger on this car until Ford does something about the inside of it. It looks about equal in quality to a Scion xB, really. They did start it up for me, though. Oh, wow---it's nasty/nasty!
I hope this car doesn't fall off the table like some other Mustang "specials".
My sole exposure to Pontiac was my '77 LeMans, a decent car. But I never went back either. My brother had a '77 Firebird for a while, bought new, that he liked. But again, never another.
Funny you mention the Fiero. In '85 I bought a MR2 so you would think I would have also shopped the Fiero. But to my knowledge I didn't even look at one, much less consider it. I think I just didn't take them seriously as a competitor. Too much of a commuter-car image.
To me, in the 'late 80s and early '90s the image of Pontiac was very poor. I did not care for their boy racer image with the body cladding and red instrument lighting. Their dash designs always seemed festooned with too many buttons and gimmicks. The Firebirds of that era seemed aimed at the good ole boy market and did not appeal at all. In general the designs always seemed to promise more than they could deliver.
The Pontiacs of the last 20 years of the brand really had nothing in common with the glory days of the '60s. Pontiac was always a big seller here in Canada but it never really grabbed me whereas Olds and Buick and even Chevy would at least get my interest. I would have dumped it before Olds, because at least they had decent products at the end and a better image to me at least.
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*The one exception to this was a GT I sat in last year that had the "Stone" interior - it transformed the car. They seem to sell one of these for every 99 black interiors so I don't know, maybe people like the black. But this made the interior a bright, airy place, far better than the usual. It seems odd that they would go for so much black because the original Mustangs had some very colorful interiors.
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I actually liked the Bonnie better than the Impala that year, but I think market prices show most people see it the other way - maybe the American Graffiti effect! In fact, I'm thinking its a toss between Pontiac and Cadillac for the best looking 58 GM entries, and I'll go with Pontiac that year.