I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

I think you probably mean "Electra Park Avenue". Probably your overall best bet to get information on this car is on a Buick Club forum:

http://forums.aaca.org/f115/

Good luck...those cars have great instrument panels, especially for the period!

andre1969

We really would like to know if this is really 1 of 800, what is the history of this beauty and what would this car be worth in todays market. Any info would be awesome! Thanks

I don't know off the top of my head how many they built, but can look it up when I get home tonight. It would be a lot more than 800, though, I'm almost sure. The Electra was a fairly popular car that year in spite of the fuel crisis, as there were plenty of people who wouldn't give up their big cars unless you pried their cold, dead hands from the steering wheel. And at around 221" long, the Electra was about as big as it got that year.

Having the 350 would make it a bit rarer, and a bit more valuable I'd think. Presuming it's the gasoline 350 and not the Diesel! The standard engine that year was an Oldsmobile 307 with 140 hp, and that's how most of them were built. I think the Buick 350 put out around 155 hp. Doesn't sound like much difference, but it had a lot more torque, so was better suited to a car this size. There is a chance that it might have an Olds 350, if the car was originally sold in California or a state that used the same strict CA standards. The Olds 350 had 160 hp that year.

My guess would be that if it's the coupe model, they might've made 8-10,000 of them, and if it was the 4-door, maybe 20-30,000? I'll look it up when I get home.

**Edit: I just found that Buick made 68,480 Electras for 1980 (source: http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/cad1980/CAD80.HTM down towards the bottom of the page)

I can't remember if the Electra came in three trim levels or two that year. In some years, I believe they had just Electra, then Electra Limited, and Electra Park Ave as the top trim level.

Mr_Shiftright

For further info on pricing, you can check www.nadaguides.com.

Your car would probably score in the "average" category.

fintail

Saw something obscure today - my old beast. Got it back from the shop, came in way under budget - but this isn't a good thing. For all the work I wanted done it would have went way over budget, so he just didn't do it all. I guess radiator refurbishment will wait til next year, but it does have a working parking brake now, and the shift linkage is better too. Funny thing, apparently the parking brake parts were pretty much the same price from MB as a junkyard part, so he just bought new ones. I love how parts can be ordered direct from the maker for a car that went out of production when LBJ was president.

He even washed it for me, it will get waxed and detailed up a bit this weekend in preparation for the local MBCA show coming soon:



At the shop parked by the fintail was a gorgeous dark gray 560SEL, 80K miles and it looked nearly new. I was drooling. Also saw a Porsche 914 on the road, a TR6, and at a completely unrelated location, a TR3.

tjc78

Car looks great! Why are you having the radiator redone? Is it leaking?

ab348

I believe you're talking about a Buick "Electra" Park Avenue. I used to own a '79 that had under 40,000 miles when I purchased it in 2002. The PArk Avenue was the top trim level of that model.

I am baffled by your reference to "gold eagles" on the fenders. I am unfamiliar with those.

The value range quoted earlier sounds about right.

They are nice cars if you are willing to put up with what is a truck-sized vehicle by today's standards.

fintail

The car runs hot at high speeds (70+)...temp is perfectly normal at lower speeds, no oil/water issues, no leaks that can be seen. I think there might be some kind of obstruction. Probably will have thermostat done then too.

The car is far from mint, but mint from far :shades:

fintail

I wonder if this car isn't some kind of dealer-produced "special edition" kind of thing, the kind of package that is "limited" only by the amount of people who placed an order.

omarman

Could be. The first time I saw a Gucci Seville I thought it must be a dealer gimmick.
Maybe they can post a pic of their car.

imidazol97

Radiator hose to the water pump okay? Inside layer sucking closed at higher water pump suctions? Water pump vanes okay?

tjc78

The car is far from mint, but mint from far

The best way for an older car to be.... so it can be driven without destroying the value.

As for the radiator, running hot at speed could certainly mean an obstruction. Another could be a bad fan clutch. Thermostat and upper/lower hoses at the time of the radiator repair, would be a natural IMHO.

uplanderguy

Lookin' good, fintail.

andre1969

I just looked up the production figures in my old car book, and unfortunately, they only break the 1980 Electra out by coupe or sedan, but not by trim level.

So, there were 54,422 sedans built (Limited and Park Ave combined) and 14,058 coupes (again, Limited and Park Ave combined)

fintail

Mechanic says the hoses look ok, but the water pump hasn't been examined to my knowledge. Sounds like a next year project - it only does about 1000 miles a year anymore, and 90% of that is under 45mph, so it won't be a worry.

fintail

If the radiator is indeed to be redone, new hoses would probably be good to have at the same time. Radiator was last touched in 1997, so I am sure a few things could have gone wrong since. No fan clutch in this thing, fan runs whenever the engine runs, could probably take off fingers with ease :shades:

And in this car I certainly don't worry about rock chips etc - way too late for that now. Also, when there's not a huge value to begin with, there's less to sweat about. It's just a fun driver, but gets the attention of cars many times more expensive. My mechanic mentioned it got some compliments while sitting around the shop for a few weeks. I don't think the car was too happy to sit outside for most of that time.

Car might also get new tires next year, but I count that as a consumable and not a repair. Tires on it are from 1999, I think. I get uneven tire wear from drivers side front, too...can't wait to see what that is.

Mr_Shiftright

heating up at high speed is generally indicative of a coolant circulation problem. Low speed overheat is more indicative of an air circulation problem.

Exception: If the high speed overheat is FAST and unstoppable, one must suspect a head gasket.

A water pump with eroded impeller might cause this.

Also in your case I believe you have a transmission cooler tank on the bottom of the radiator? This should also be inspected.

fintail

The car is fine at low speed, really only heating up when you approach 70mph. It happened on a hot (90+F) day last year, needle nearly pegged, so I dropped down to about 55mph and the temp fell along with me. I am not terribly worried about it, it's just annoying.

The car actually broke a transmission cooling line back in 1998 - I remember it down to the day as it stranded me. I don't know the mechanics of the system, but I will remember that.

uplanderguy

I think the first of the '70's Seville is truly timeless. At the time, I remember how some folks thought it was ridiculous that it was priced ($12.5K) more than big Cadillacs. Compare this to the Lincoln Versailles, a Granada with a hump on the trunk.

omarman

Aside from the Gucci edition, I also really liked the clean simple look of the 70s Seville. Ironically, I was also intrigued by the "slantback" replacement in 1980. The new K body was based on the Eldorado platform and the 6.0 V8 was derived from a Cadillac engine (472 maybe?). But very quickly it all went sour with the diesel and 4.1 V8s. Rarely ever see them around here.

lemko

Are you going to get the correct period whitewall tires for it?

andre1969

I think the '75-79 Seville is a much better looking car than the '80-85. The first has a clean, timeless look to it, where the other is a bit on the neoclassic/pimpy side.

However, my fascination with the '75-79 Seville faded the first time I sat in one. The car does a great job in hiding its Nova underpinnings in every respect except one...the seating position. I found it to be lacking in legroom, steering wheel was too close for my comfort, and so was the windshield. There was no denying that this thing was a compact car.

In contrast, the '80-85 Seville felt much more comfortable, more like they started with a full-sized car, and narrowed it a bit. Legroom was great, both front and rear, and the steering wheel/dashboard position, in relation to my body, was better as well.

Unfortunately, the Seville pretty much hit its sweet spot in 1980. I think they actually made the Olds Diesel standard that year, but many buyers opted for the 368 V-8, which was a reduced-displacement version of the old 425 (which itself was derived from the older 472/500). It put out around 145-150 hp, and a good amount of torque. I think California buyers got the Olds 350 with 160 hp though, as it was a cleaner engine.

Motortrend tested an '80 Seville with the 368, and got 0-60 in about 10.6 seconds, which was good for that era. If that test could be repeated with consistently similar results, that would actually put it as faster than the '75-79! I heard that the first-gen was supposed to do 0-60 in around 10-11 seconds, but I've seen tests that put it at more like 12-13.5.

Unfortunately, 1981 brought the V-8-6-4, and heavier reliance on the Diesel. If the V-8-6-4 acted up, you could disconnect the cylinder deactivation fairly easily, so it wasn't a total loss. But then for 1982-85, they stuck this ~2 ton beast with a tiny 125 hp aluminum 4.1 V-8! It was unreliable, slow, and a bit of a guzzler.

fintail

Yep, that's the plan. Apparently there are a couple sources for them, and I have seen many fintails with them. It won't be the cheapest option, but I think the car will look great with them.

fintail

I have to say I like the bustlebacks. I'd like one with no vinyl top, preferably one-tone, those kind of flat faced wheels instead of wire caps, no faux Rolls grille etc...it'd be kind of cool. Weird and not pretty, but interesting and kind of imposing. A 1980 MY of course.

andre1969

I'd like one with no vinyl top, preferably one-tone, those kind of flat faced wheels instead of wire caps, no faux Rolls grille etc...it'd be kind of cool.

Yeah, that's about how I'd want it. I could deal with the two-toning, if it was a tasteful combination though. And I think the Seville is one of the few cars that can actually wear a carriage roof with some dignity, although I'd much prefer it without!

stickguy

tend to see some interesting stuff in a wealthy beach town (avalon in this case).

on a bike ride yesterday, a pair of 70ish Vette convertibles. Both in nice shape. And more rare, a 71-73 vintage Mustang. Fresh looking paint. A notchback, with a nostril hood. no badging indicating any special model, but it did have a "unique" paint job (blue with gray spears).

omarman

The other day I caught part of an old Bob Hope movie called My Favorite Brunette from 1947. There was a wacky car chase scene with Hope driving a 1941 Plymouth Special Deluxe Convertible and pursued by Peter Lorre in an old 30s era Rolls Royce (Wraith?) with the familiar bustle back.

I also found a reference to the inspiration this car had on the 1980 Seville.

Mr_Shiftright

Well when the Seville bustle-back first came out, most people hated it. The general criticism was that the front and back halves of the car had nothing to do with each other (never a good idea).

While I wasn't totally turned off by it (at least they *tried* to stop making boxcars in Detroit), still I thought it smacked of that typical faux-luxury, pretentiousness that the Detroit "luxury" market was so famous for. A car fit for Elvis, but not a real king.

fintail

That's exactly what they were copying - "razors edge" styling, which started in the mid 30s on coachbuilt RR-Bentley and similar products. Kind of got lost in translation, but the late 70s weren't exactly the pinnacle of style and taste.

fintail

I don't like how the two tone droops at the rear...I don't think there was an other style.

I could also take a 79-85 style Eldo similarly equipped - no wire hubcaps, no vinyl top, no faux RR grille...a fairly nice clean design when the bric a brac is removed.

kyfdx

...amazing stuff... too much to even remember, let alone write down...

I saw 5 VW bus campers within 15 minutes, today... all rust free.. :surprise:

lemko

...black 1965 Plymouth Valiant four-door sedan outside a repair shop on Oxford Avenue between Cottman and Bleigh in NE Philly.

uplanderguy

I also very much like the '79-85 Eldo styling. It's razor-edge qualities remind me of the '67-'70.

I know a '79 or '80 is the best choice, but I do like on the '84 and '85's (I think), the body side molding is completely the color of the car...no chrome base or beading...which makes it appear that the car doesn't have a side molding. A clean-looking touch.

But..I'd give that up for a reliable engine!

andre1969

I know a '79 or '80 is the best choice, but I do like on the '84 and '85's (I think), the body side molding is completely the color of the car...no chrome base or beading...which makes it appear that the car doesn't have a side molding. A clean-looking touch.

But..I'd give that up for a reliable engine!

Well, if you ever buy a '79-80 Eldorado, I'll get you a couple cans of Dupli-Color for Christmas, and you can paint it to match! :P

I just checked my old car book, and it says that model of Eldorado was called the Touring Coupe, and actually came out for 1982! It also had aluminum rims and fatter, lower-profile tires. I didn't realize it came out that early, and had always thought it was a hasty response to the 1984 Lincoln Mark VII LSC.

I'm impressed that Cadillac actually attempted to make a nod towards performance and handling. One small nod for luxury cars, but a giant nod for Cadillac!

andys120

A local Roadhouse has an odd pair of cars displayed in a prominent position out front where they can readily be seen from the road. Both are from the mid 60s and American-made but they couldn't be more different.

One is a '65 or '66 AMC Rambler 4-post sedan, somber black and it's next to a '66 Pontiac GTO hardtop in metallic blue with Torq-Thrust style aftermarket wheels, otherwise stock looking. No "For Sale" signage visible on either car. :confuse:

fintail

This morning saw a silver 90s Viper with hardtop on, a China blue W123, yesterday saw a lovely dark blue late W124 diesel, and the mean looking immaculate green and white 72 T-Bird with loud pipes and period wheels that I see in the area now and then.

omarman

Saw one of these google maps street view cars this morning while leaving a strip club, protesting at an abortion clinic, sunbathing, and engaging in other activities visible from public property that I don't wish to seen by the general public. I think it was a Subaru.

fintail

I saw one of those on Friday, my first google car. It was a Prius.

ab348

When they were up here a couple of years ago i think they had a Saturn Ion.

ab348

Driving home from work tonight in the pouring rain, coming towards me was a somewhat tired-looking 1970 or so Datsun 510 4-door, aftermarket green in color. Had the slowest windshield wipers in living memory. May have been restored 15-20 years ago but sure looked well-used. Haven't seen one other than at a show in maybe 20 years if not longer. They all rotted out in about 5-6 years here.

fintail

They all retired to the northwest. I see them now and then here - saw 2 wagons in the span of a couple days just a few weeks ago.

I still see a pristine Datsun 810 wagon around my area too...I almost wouldn't mind having that, if I had some huge garage. They apparently weren't the worst car, and there are so few left.

cessnapeter

Thanks for looking up the Park Ave. I did get a hold of the original buyers widow over the weekend, My husband & I are the 3rd. owners of the car. It does have a Buick 350 gas engine. Actual miles are 58,435. She believed it to be a special edition from what her husband told her. She thought that's were the eagle came into play. If you look at the pic that omarman posted #23270, on the front panel between the name and the door behind the tire is where the gold eagle is on both sides. The car is all white with a small red pinstrip front to back along the upper top of the sides. I took a pic but after I download to my pc I have no idea how to tranfer it to here. lol / I am a bartender~not a computer geek! I appreciate everyones input for sure. And I do like "the beast" I love that growwwl when it's running. The car I had before this one was '79 Pontiac Grand Prix with a 400 gas engine. I am a small gal who loves big toys!!!

fleener

Hello,
I am from Germany.
My grandfather Lon Fleener has worked at Studebaker.
Do you know more about it, they still have more pictures?

Greetings from Germany

explorerx4

some good stuff from C&D:
Current drive article

Original review

uplanderguy

Lon Fleener was the man who brought M-B into the Studebaker fold. He married a lady named Martha was was Sherwood Egbert's and Byers Burlingame's secretary at Studebaker. I'd met her a couple times at large Studebaker events in South Bend in the '90's and she was a classy, charming lady. She passed in the late '90's I believe. At that time she lived in California.

Mr_Shiftright

I just SAW a 6.9 in a showroom where I was inspecting another car today. How Weird. This one (silver) was very very nice indeed.

fintail

Mmm...I don't usually like brown cars, but the W116 wears it well.

Today's oddballs - green and white Volvo Amazon wagon, a blue 65-66 or so Stingray convertible, and a first gen Kia Sephia.

fintail

Strange to imagine these were made so late

"Fancy, Comfortable"

Unloved style

Top of the line battleship

Rare

Pimpy

Clattery red

They all end up on ebay...but it's nice

Good luck finding parts

I wonder how this art deco gnat got here

The last of the elegant ones

BMW looks

Big red, with wheels

I could see Andre in this

Frankencar from hell

"Xtremely rare"

This'll keep you busy

Kill it with fire

And today's oddity - a small bumper BMW 2002 with the sought after "Automatic" badge :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

AMC Eagle---some people really love these things. I've actually driven one, so I don't.

'77 Buick---it may be fancy and comfortable, but it really needs a higher bid that $202.50. That's so sad.

54 Cadillac Fleetwood Special---well for THAT asking price, it had damn well better be "mint".

81 Cadillac Diesel --it's a rather scary thought that there are still 3 people loose in the world who would pay as much as $5,800 for one.

1970 Mazda Luce BMW look-alike: well let's hope it runs better than a BMW Bavaria.

51 Bristol--- congratulations to whomever took a potentially $50,000 car and turned it into a piece of junk.

1985 Merkur---yes, definitely a time capsule...and what do we usually do with time capsules, class?

1982 Bat/Sphinx/Whatever --- I kinda like this one. It's not quirky, it's not odd--it's totally nuts.

ab348

The '77 Electra has a laughable price. $9000? Good luck. My '79 was far nicer than that one and it was a $3500 car. The similar-gen Olds 98 coupe and Pontiac Bonneville coupe are both far nicer cars at a lower price. I generally like this generation of Olds and that 98 is a good one, but that Pontiac is just gorgeous.

The Century sedan is indeed quite rare. Most had the frames rust out in the rear after a few years due to bad design, thin metal, and poor rust protection. You can see the cheapening that GM did on these in the interior trim - look at the poor quality vinyl upholstery used in the seat bolsters and the ill-fitting interior pieces.

andre1969

The '77 Electra has a laughable price. $9000? Good luck. My '79 was far nicer than that one and it was a $3500 car. The similar-gen Olds 98 coupe and Pontiac Bonneville coupe are both far nicer cars at a lower price. I generally like this generation of Olds and that 98 is a good one, but that Pontiac is just gorgeous.

Looks like a Buick with an Olds engine, and a Pontiac with a Buick engine? For wanting $9K, you'd think the seller would have at least cleaned up that engine bay some! I swear, my $500 New Yorker looks better than that under the hood!

I really like that Bonneville. I drove a '79 once with the Buick 350, and it seemed fairly sluggish, so I imagine the more common 301 must have been really slow by then. The '79 with the 350 felt about as quick as my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, which had an Olds 307, but was most likely helped a bit with the 4-speed automatic and improved emissions controls. It wasn't enough of a dog to turn down a nice one, though...it's just that this particular one I drove was owned by an old guy who was just going to donate it, it needed work, and once I really looked at it, I didn't think I'd be any better off with it than with my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, or the '89 Gran Fury I had at the time.

As for that Century, I kinda like it in an underdog sort of way. It has some nice features, such as the somewhat upscale interior, and 305 V-8. Power windows would have been nice, though. Other than the headliner coming down, seems okay. And yeah, the interior workmanship was getting a bit sloppy, but to be fair, I think everybody was starting to lose it by then.

I wasn't aware of the poor rust protection...around the DC area, those downsized intermediates held up pretty well. Usually didn't start to show rust for at least 10 years. Which, by the way, seems to be about the age that I STILL start to see Accords and Civics with some rust on 'em! But, I guess if it has any flaws in the rustproofing, a few Canada winters will really point them out!