I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

texases

Not clear how they do it, sounds like they convert your car from this FAQ on their site:

"What kind of car do you convert?
We are currently converting the 2010 Chevrolet Equinox as well as 2007-2009 Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice convertibles. You can purchase a new or used vehicle and it can be driven until we are ready to convert it. So if you want to buy it today and drive it and convert it three months from now, that's okay. "

bhill2

OK, in the words of Emily Latella (the late great Gilda Radner), "never mind".

andre1969

You're being much to generous to GM. I bet they ditched the roll down windows to save money, the recessed armrests were a no-cost modification once the windows didn't move.

I remember reading in a 1978 Consumer Reports that GM claimed that the '78 intermediates provided better ventilation with the front window rolled down and the rear vent opened than it would have with a roll-down rear window and stationary vent. Dunno if that's just hype or not. I guess at higher speeds it might, since it would give a fairly smooth air flow with a place in back for the air to exit, where a roll-down window might just give you a lot of wind buffeting.

GM started phasing out roll-down rear windows in coupes in 1970 with the Camaro, '71 with the El Dorado, and 1973 with the whole midsized lineup. Nobody seemed to mind too much. Personally, I think it reeks of cost cutting, but at the time the general attitude was probably "who cares if the back windows don't roll down...it has air conditioning!!"

So, maybe GM figured that since the majority of these downsized '78's would be ordere with air conditioning, customers might not mind?

Customers did complain though, and in sedan form, GM wasn't as successful with these downsized intermediates as they had been with the big cars the year before. The Malibu sold well, but the LeMans wasn't such a hot seller. Neither were the "aeroback" Cutlass Salon and Century. The big sellers in those days were the personal luxury coupe version...Regal, Cutlass Supreme, Monte Carlo, and Grand Prix. As a result, since GM wasn't all that dependent on the sedan for sales, maybe that's why they didn't bother to fix it. FWIW, the station wagon models, which also had stationary rear door windows, did sell fairly well across all four lines.

In 1980, GM gave the Century and Cutlass sedans a more formal roofline similar to the first-gen Seville, and used the rear doors from the station wagon, which had the vent in the door rather than the C-pillar, and sales took off in an otherwise down year. So, I guess even if people complained about those stationary windows, they were willing to put up with them.

Chrysler tried a similar move in 1981 with the K-car. That first year, the 4-door and wagon models all had stationary rear windows and a flip out vent. Customers complained, and part way during the 1982 run, Chrysler started making the rear windows roll down, and doing away with the flip out vent. I'm guessing one reason for this decision is that since an Aries/Reliant was a much cheaper car than a Malibu et al, it was less likely to have air conditioning, and therefore fresh air ventilation was more critical.

And Chrysler didn't even give you the benefit of the recessed armrest! Talk about cheap! :P FWIW, I remember reading somewhere that Chrysler figured out that it really didn't cost any more to make the window roll down than making it stationary, once you built enough of them. Sure, it added a few parts to make the window roll down, but then it also took away a few parts that held the stationary window in place, and made the vent window flip open. And across the volume of several hundred thousand, the difference was inconsequential.

I guess GM did learn from their mistake, to a degree though, as their next downsizing job, the compact Citation, did have roll-down windows in back. But again, it was also a cheaper car, less likely to be ordered with a/c, so maybe they figured they had to do it that way.

I do remember being impressed that GM at least did give you the recessed armrest, so it made up, if slightly, for the lack of a roll-down window. Until the neighbors bought an '89 Volvo 740 wagon, which had recessed armrests AND roll-down windows!

I guess the whole stationary window thing will always stick in my mind because my grandparents bought an '82 Malibu wagon in the winter, and nobody gave the rear windows the silghtest thought. Until one warm morning in April when I went to church with them, and Grandmom sat in the back. She started fumbling around, looking for the window crank, asked how the hell do you roll down the back window, and when we realized they were stationary, had a few choice words for General Motors!

uplanderguy

Where I lived, still a lot of '78 Malibus were on dealer lots w/o A/C.

Like GM did with the '77 big cars, I think it was important for them to advertise that the cars had more useable interior space than the '77 mid-sizes. The recessed door armrests did that. I think the thought was probably also that, hey, the two-door cars haven't had roll-down back windows since '73 (mid-sizes), why not the four-doors?

Personally, although I liked the way the cars looked and drove, I remember them being pretty premium-priced and I thought the lack of roll-down rear windows in the sedans, and the donut spare, were obvious cheapo cost-cutters.

andre1969

Just got around to uploading the pics I took two weeks ago at the Das Awkscht Fescht car show in Macungie, PA. First pic is my '76 LeMans, and the second pic is the open trunk, showing just how poorly laid out these cars were. I have my cooler sitting in the one spot in the trunk where it will fit and allow the trunk to close all the way.

I guess though, considering there's also a full-sized spare in there, maybe that trunk isn't TOO horrible, considering how swoopy and sloped-off these cars were. I don't think that cooler would have even fit in my old Dart, which had trunk that was a lot larger, but shallower.

I would've gotten more pics, especially of the older stuff, but around 3 pm or so it started to rain like crazy, and everybody started pulling out. And, having to drive that LeMans almost 200 miles home, in the rain, made me appreciate just how far cars have advanced! The windshield wipers only have two speeds, fast and faster, and that gave me a new respect for interval wipers. And the only way to get the rear window to de-fog quickly was to crack the front windows about an inch. And the engine rumble, which makes it sound a lot more powerful than it is, is pretty sweet in small doses, but after a few hours does get a bit grating!

ab348

That '69 (?) Mercury Marquis converitble is really pretty with the blue paint and white interior.

I liked that '78 Delta 88 coupe too, and with the similar Bonneville even more.

The station wagons are all very neat to see.

The next-to-last pic of the '79 Electra looks odd. I owned one of those and that one pictured just looks "off" somehow.

andre1969

The next-to-last pic of the '79 Electra looks odd. I owned one of those and that one pictured just looks "off" somehow.

I think it's the wheels. I had a feeling they weren't factory-correct, but couldn't place them. Lemko has a really good eye for that kind of detail though, and immediately ID'ed them as coming from a '90's Roadmaster. I couldn't tell if it had been re-painted or not, but that color looked awfully close to the dark gray metallic of my Grandmother's '85 LeSabre. Kinda common as an '80's color, but less so as a late 70's. In person, it did look like it was very well taken care of.

It attracted quite a bit of attention at that show, considering the era it comes from. It was driven by a fairly petite woman who I'd guess was 50's, maybe even early 60's, but very well-preserved. I know this is kinda crude, but the acronym G-MILF comes to mind!

That show always has a good turnout, nice, wide variety of cars. And since it's put on by the AACA, they have a cutoff of 25 years or older. It's weird though, seeing stuff like an '80's Cougar or Dodge 600 on the showfield. Heck, a mid 80's Cougar or T-bird still looks pretty modern today!

Oh, as for that blue Marquis, I think it was a '70. It was whatever year was the last for the big Merc convertibles. And in person, that sucker was gorgeous! Well-equipped, too, with a/c, power windows, etc. We chatted with the guy who owned it. I forget the details, but it had previously belonged to the wife of some bigwig, wasn't driven much, and was pretty low-mileage. Even though my preference runs towards GM and Mopar first, I've always had a thing for those hidden-headlight Marquises! There was a year or two that the Dodge Monaco aped that front-end too ('72-73?), and I always liked those, too.

berri

Nice shots - Love the variety. It must be quite the show if all of this is just a sampling!

tjc78

Really enjoyed looking through these. More than a few would easily look good in my driveway!

uplanderguy

I've heard of this show but never been. What a wonderful variety of cars! Looked nearly as big as a show at fall Hershey! Just when I think I'd seen 'em all, I'd never seen that black '63 Avanti-powered Lark Custom 2-door sedan early on. I was also particularly struck with the black vinyl top over maroon '66 Grand Prix, dark green '65 Olds Ninety-Eight and the '63 Merc Monterey S-55 with Breezeway back window...among others!

Thanks for sharing!

andre1969

Nice shots - Love the variety. It must be quite the show if all of this is just a sampling!

Thanks. I think the section they had my car in was a fairly broad 1955 and newer domestic. We pretty much just saw that section and the truck section, but there were sections that had older cars, imports, etc. Here's a bunch of pics that I took at the show back in 2008, when I took my '79 New Yorker. I was supposed to take the LeMans that year, but it wouldn't start, and was blocking my 5th Avenue, so I decided to chance it with the New Yorker.

You'll see a lot of the same cars in these pics that were in the 2011 album, but if you scroll down a bit, there's more variety...imports, older stuff, etc. I've noticed that I have a habit of taking pics of a lot of the same cars year after year, so last year I didn't take any pics at this show.

uplanderguy

With my two Larks that I recently sold, I'd had J.C. Taylor for 23 years without a problem, and was pleased with them when I had a claim a few years back as well. When I went to cancel, I thought the woman on the phone (Mary Ellen) seemed to be rather snippy about one small item in particular, but didn't think much of it. I recently bought a '66 Studebaker in Kentucky and planned on driving it home this weekend (subsequently decided on having it delivered as it's thunderstorming the whole way today supposedly, and I hate I-75 in Cincinnati even in a modern car). J.C. Taylor would not insure the car for me in transit when I told them I planned on driving it home with the Kentucky plates on it. I had the same snippy woman on the phone. I was dumbfounded. She said, "We can insure it when you get it home". I called Hagerty and the difference in customer service was absolutely night-and-day. They said "no problem". So I'm now a Hagerty customer.

Plus, I get a charge out of their ad that shows a '68 Cougar and an over-the-hill bleach blonde. It says, "We insure the Cougar on the left".

uplanderguy

Your LeMans is a nice-looking car in a good color. We've had this discussion before, but I wish you could still get the large, triangular quarter window in a LeMans that year. Maybe you could, I can't remember for certain. I mean, look at that rear quarter blind spot! You could in the other A-bodies, but in the Chevelle line (with which I was most familiar), you had to settle for the base Malibu which had an interior about on-par with the Chevelle Deluxe cheapie only a few years earlier. I've always thought how I'd have liked a '76 Malibu Classic, except for it to have the big quarter windows and to delete the hood ornament. GM had luxurious cars in the '60's with sporty flair and fastback roofs (Bonneville, Delta 88 Custom, Wildcat), but in the '70's it seems like a nice interior could only be had with an opera window in a coupe.

Re.: LeMans trunk space...it was probably even worse in the '73 model. I know in '74 the center of the trunk lid was raised, which I assume translated to the trunklid inner panels as well.

andre1969

thanks! That's actually not its proper color. Originally it was "Firethorne", and you can still see it in the door jambs and trunk area, so the repaint wasn't exactly the best job in the world.

Somewhere in those pics is a '76 Ventura coupe with an Olds 260 that's painted the correct Firethorne color. If I had money to burn, I'd love to get my LeMans repainted correctly, although I'm sort of torn as to whether I'd put it back to Firethorn, or re-do it in its current burgundy.

As for those large triangular windows, the LeMans did away with them completely for 1976-77, so your only choices were the opera window or, on the base model or sport coupe, you could get the louvers, which were a little better. The Grand LeMans, I'm pretty sure, only offered the opera windows.

My Mom's '75 LeMans had those big triangular windows, and I preferred them, as well.

My '76 is supposed to have the stand-up hood ornament, and a chrome strip down the hood, but at some point in its life, before I owned it, it got wrecked. That's why it has a '77 grille on it now.

Oh, as for trunk space, I guess the '73 must have been horrible! The '76, for as swoopy as it is, is actually fairly deep in a few spots. Unfortunately, the deepest spot is taken up by part of the spare tire!

I guess if nothing else, that shows how much freedom the various GM divisions had in their own styling in those years, even if it compromised trunk space on one car, versus another, or changed the underlying structure. With Ford, for example, I think the Montego and Torino would have had identical trunks, as the only things that really got changed were easy stuff like taillights, bumpers, grilles, and maybe the sheetmetal, as long as it didn't interfere with the underlying structure. And same with the Plymouth Satellite/Fury and Dodge Coronet/Monaco.

Mr_Shiftright

I think Hagerty is a first-class operation. They just seem to "get it" when it comes to what collector car hobbyists want and need.

uplanderguy

I'm glad to hear that about Hagerty.

uplanderguy

Andre, I thought for sure your LeMans was the color Chevy called "Mahogany" that year...sure looks like it to my 53-year old eyes!

I loved Firethorn at the time. Back then I was gaga about the '76 Monte Carlo...I'm less "gaga" about it now. I liked the stacked headlights and new rear styling. I wanted a Firethorn Monte Carlo! Dad had no headroom in a Monte of that era. Dad did buy a new '77 Impala Coupe which I liked a lot. It was bright red and a 305. As I've mentioned previously, in the showroom at the same time was a Firethorn Impala with the same equipment except for the 350 4-barrel (which also got you the bigger trans). I tried to sway Dad so hard, but he saw it as a four-barrel which would suck more gas, and cost $200 more upfront.

andre1969

Andre, I thought for sure your LeMans was the color Chevy called "Mahogany" that year...sure looks like it to my 53-year old eyes!

Y'know, it does sort of look like that color, which Pontiac called "Cordovan Maroon", according to this 1976 Pontiac paint chart.

I think I've seen that color in person though, and in real life it looks like it has a hint of brown in it. Last fall I saw a '76 or '77 Grand Prix in Carlisle in that color. It was gorgeous, and looked like a brand-new car.

$200 doesn't sound like a lot of money, but I'm sure in 1977 it was. That's about the equivalent of around $745 today. In my opinion though, that would be worth it, to go from a 305-2 to a 350-4.

uplanderguy

Ahhh, to have that number of color choices today.

That lime green color was popular on Montes in '76, paired with white top, white side molding, white vinyl interior and lime green instrument panel and carpeting! Owning white shoes and a white belt was probably a requirement to buy one!

kyfdx

I was looking at an '81 320i last week.. Had my agent (State Farm) work up a quote for full coverage. It's only $300/year.. Not sure it would be worth setting up a collector policy, unless I had more than one extra car..

andre1969

That's not a bad price. How much will they insure the car for, though? And can you drive it whenever you want?

I just checked my Hagerty policy, and it looks like it was only $271 for three cars. I have the DeSoto insured for $15K, the Catalina for $12K, and the LeMans for $4K.

I'd put the two New Yorkers on the policy if I could, but one stipulation is that the car has to be garaged. And one of my New Yorkers sits outside. Plus, I think Hagerty has a $3K or $3500 minimum value, and my two NYers aren't worth that combined, let alone apiece.

andre1969

I used to think that lime green was too wild for my tastes, but I kinda like it, now. I think it looks good on a smaller or sportier car. Something like a Vega/Sunbird, Nova/Ventura, Camaro/Firebird, or on a larger two door car. But something more formal, like a Bonneville sedan, might not be able to pull it off as well.

I'd be worried about the white vinyl interior though. I imagine it would be hard to keep that looking clean.

Here's a pic of a '76 LeMans in that shade of green. I kinda like it, although it's not my first color choice. I can see that color being a love it or hate it type of thing though.

kyfdx

That's insured for actual value, which admittedly is only $2500-$4000.. but, that's full collision, comprehensive and 250K/500K/100K liability. Pleasure use, under 7500 miles/year, which just means that it's not your daily driver for commuting... Anyone in the family can drive it, anytime, anywhere..

And.... I have a 17-yr-old boy on my policy, so, not so bad, considering..

That would be four cars for three people.. If it were one family member's main transportation, it would be higher.

Mr_Shiftright

That's probably a "stated value" policy I would guess, not an "agreed upon value". The loophole in "stated value" is that the policy states that they'll pay you UP TO the stated value. You need to read the policy carefully if it's not a specialty insurer like Hagerty.

With 'stated value", even though the "stated" value is right there in black and white---even so, they can dispute the value come settlement time.

And they will, too.

ab348

Back in '75 or so when I was going to school and living at home, just down the street a former convent property had been cleared in preparation for development, but the approvals were being held up. The local Pontiac dealer rented the land to store his new inventory on, so I would wander down there and look it over occasionally.

I wasn't a huge fan of the 2nd-generation Firebird, and liked the last round-headlight versions least of all, but he had one on the lot there for the longest time in that lime green color, with white interior and what I recall as a white and green tape stripe on the side that wrapped up at the back of the door opening. Man, I loved that car. I kept going back and visiting it and wishing I could buy it somehow. I'm guessing it was a '76.

kyfdx

For my policy, it's not even stated value... It's just regular insurance, where they determine a value, just like they would on our '08 X3, if it were totaled...

I'm sure they'd try to say an '81 320i is worth about $800.. It would be up to me to prove/negotiate what I considered actual value.. but, that's no different than any other car (other than comparables are harder to find).

As I noted before, if I had more than one extra, old car, then a collector policy would make more sense. But, I didn't buy the 320i, so that is a moot point (not mute... lol)

regards,
kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright

Well, if you end up investing money in that old 320i then you might want to get it appraised at some point and put that appraisal on file with your insurance company.

kyfdx

That's a great idea... I'll have to remember that..

Actually, we are trying to find an E30.. The insurance quotes for that are only $355/year...

Got any really nice E30 325is on the West Coast that you can find for $3500? lol.

Mr_Shiftright

Sure, dime a dozen out here. Clean 325s are easy to find here in the $3000 range (or less). You could even get a decent convertible for that price if you hunted around.

kyfdx

Actually, convertibles are easy to find here.... and, mostly cheaper than a nice coupe... Unfortunately, not what I want..

If my budget was $5K-$6K, I'd have one already.... but, alas, we are in the $2500-$3500 range, and not much luck, so far... (not that we haven't found cars in that range.. with many issues).

fintail

This old thing was in a little parking lot across the street from me this morning

Mr_Shiftright

I love old Buicks but I'd have to have a 2D HT or 2D coupe.

Mr_Shiftright

Pretty rare. Kinda pricey, though.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/2560293720.html

Mr_Shiftright

Here's a *really* rare wagon but given the condition, I think it's overpriced by quite a bit. If you back up the value of a restored one, and what it would take to get there, this car is then, at least mathematically, worth nothing at all.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/2528558362.html

Perhaps it's better as a parts car for an existing one, if there is another like it on the road. I'd imagine some of the wagon-specific trim parts are totally unobtanium.

jljac

When I was a kid, there was a TV show called Sky King. He was a flying cowboy who not only had a cool airplane, but a Chrysler station wagon too. I liked them and the show, even though I was skeptical about Sky running cars off the road with his airplane. The people in the cars would always duck their heads when he flew over their cars, as though that would make a difference (they did that even when the car was not a convertible).

http://friendship-classics.tumblr.com/post/1292258131/sky-king-if-you-are-as-old- -as-me-you-may

Mr_Shiftright

Here's Sky and his wagon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QottyzDRzXE

ab348

Pricey, but I'm not sure it's overpriced. That example looks pretty good and it certainly is a rare car.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I didn't mean "overpriced" by pricey---just that it was no bargain. It should be very well sorted out for that money. Too bad we can't see underneath.

fintail

Good driver, why restore it, enjoy it as-is. Looks presentable enough to me.

The Mercury is insanely rare, you might have the only one on the road after you renovate it, but it is light years from even driver status, and once you dig in, you might as well go all the way.

fintail

Today saw a Sunbeam Alpine, a 64-65 Plymouth or Dodge 2 door HT, a BMW 840 coupe, and a ca. 86 Celica convertible, top down, I could hear Tears for Fears being played inside...time warp. Also have been seeing the same dark green with white vinyl top 66 Mustang coupe every other day or so for awhile now.

lemko

Dig those funky taillamps!

merckx

I just finished reading a book about the Yugo. I really don't remember much about the car from back then except the $3995 price. Was it a car that you'd immediately think was absurdly substandard? What were they like to drive? Were they utterly flimsy cars that didn't last?

fintail

They were pretty awful, I think to the point where you had to fix a load of defects upon delivery. But I have read some actually got years of service out of them, once all of the bugs were fixed.

My own memory goes back to when I was about 11, and a young woman who worked in my dad's store bought a new Yugo, red, her first new car, she was very proud. Transmission failed at something like 2 months.

Mr_Shiftright

It was based on the Fiat 128, so that explains a lot.

NATO actually bombed the factory (payback time?).

dieselone

They were pretty awful,

I was 14 or 15 when they were introduced, but I do remember them being pretty bad.

$3995 back then was probably to much money for those POC. It did make Time magazine, but not in a good way. I remember Consumer Reports recommending a used car vs. a new Yugo.

IIRC, even if you were lucky to get a decently reliable Yugo, you still had to put up with a very poor performing car.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658533_1658529,0- 0.html

Mr_Shiftright

It was a decent "concept" but poorly executed. Later on, the Geo Metro was more successful as the "affordable tin box", and of course we continued to have cars like this into the 21st century---the Echo, Festiva, etc.

hpmctorque

The difference is that the Echo and Festiva were very reliable and durable.

lemko

...who had a Yugo. It was truly a bad car. The interior was particularly attrocious. The door panels were thin vacuum formed pieces of plastic with "mouse fur" blown onto them with adhesive. The turn signal stalk had all the strenght and versatility of a cocktail stirrer. One flick of a finger for a right turn looks like it would have snapped off the stalk and landed it in the passenger seat footwell. The backup lamps were hung from the rear bumper as an afterthought.
It's contemporary, the Hyundai Excel, wasn't much better.

explorerx4

It was a monchrome lipstick red with GTA in white blocky letters on the front fender.

ab348

In Saturday traffic, a '66 Caprice coupe (with the more formal roofline/greenhouse) in a combination of primer/faded paint. Looked pretty much like it probably did 30 years ago, just an old used car. You don't often see cars like this running around here; usually they are pretty much fully redone before they get out and about because of the need for a govt safety check and insurance inspection. Exhaust smelled rather rich. I guess back then most cars smelled like that.

That '66 Caprice styling was really quite clean and attractive. I noticed it had what appeared to be vents at the base of the rear window. Were those functional or just chrome appliques?