Packard had push buttons back in 1956, but they were electronic, like the new Lincoln, not clunky cables like the Mopars. When they worked, the Packard's buttons were smooth and quiet.
@fintail said:
Many MBs use the column shifter now - my car has it too. I am not sure why it was brought
back after so many years (the last MB to have a column shifter was made no later than 1970
or so), definitely has a retro feel.
I have a hard time calling that a column shifter. It's more of a delicate, petite way to select a gear.
"When they worked"--my dealer friend had to go pick up a Caribbean's owner two hours away because his car wouldn't go into reverse. It was a contact in the pushbutton system while the car was still quite new. And the car was eighteenth from the last Packard convertible made (serial 5699-1258), so it was late production.
A longtime acquaintance has two or three collector '56 Packard cars with pushbutton, and I don't think he's had issues though, but he barely drives them. I do like the '56's because of the rarity, being the last, and the Torsion-Level system. I think it's a pretty good facelift of the '51 body, too.
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Maybe not like a 4 on the tree, or even the fintail's notchy column stalk, but it is more involved than pushing a button, or even worse, a screen. And it doesn't have the false pretense of sport found with a console shift in an otherwise unexciting mid lux car. It also makes the interior seem more spacious. wide open console.
@robr2 said:
I have a hard time calling that a column shifter. It's more of a delicate, petite way to select a gear.
I believe Mercury used pushbuttons for a year or two, as well. Dunno if they were mechanical or electrical though.
One thing that was pretty cool about the Mopar setup, in 1957 at least, is that it was "smart" enough to not let you engage the lower gears at too high of a speed. I want to say the threshold was 50 mph for first and 70 for second? I did accidentally hit the "1" button once at too high of a speed on my DeSoto, and I remember it wouldn't engage. Also, if you were going forward at a speed faster than 11 mph and hit reverse, it would go into neutral. Still, I guess going into reverse when you're moving forward at, say, 10 mph, isn't a good thing, is it?
@fintail said:
Maybe not like a 4 on the tree, or even the fintail's notchy column stalk, but it is more involved
than pushing a button, or even worse, a screen.
Ah yes, the flick of a single digit on a stalk is so engaging versus the touch of a single digit on a button or screen.
I was rereading my Classic Car magazine and realized the 1931 Hupmobile was located in Centerville a suburb of Dayton. And I can recall a few years back taking pictures at a local auto show of it and its trailer.
I'm just poking at you. I believe those little stalks, wheels, buttons for gear selection to be different just for the sake of being different. At least an floor mounted gear selector for an automatic transmission still has a mechanical linkage between.
Then again, I'm a dinosaur and want to drive a stick until I'm no longer capable of doing so.
@stickguy said:
... at the philly auto show. they had a couple of classic areas. One was a Ford vs. Mopar "muscle" display. Man, there were some muscle cars I wanted there (also the Desoto). elsewhere was the usual GTO/Chevelle types, and my favorites, a 1975 Volvo 165, and a 1964 Cobra Daytona coupe. Man, that car looked cool (and in completely original condition).
Even cooler if they showed correct car display signage. If that was one of the original 6 cars built then it's a Shelby Daytona Coupe. A little respect for both the car that gave Ford the 1965 World Manufacturer’s Championship and for the man quoted as saying, "Ferrari's [non-permissible content removed] is mine!"
I don't know much about the National Historic Vehicle Register except that the Shelby Daytona coupe was added first on the list. If nothing else it's still a great story to reflect back on with guys like Dan Gurney, Bob Bondurant, Peter Brock, and Carroll Shelby himself "hell bent on winning" and making history.
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
"Ferrari's [non-permissible content removed] is mine!"
Funny! I did a double take when I looked over my post and saw that one! For me, this new format is gonna take some getting used to... "All your non-permissible content are belong to us"
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
I saw one of those Caterham 7 style super kit cars this evening, in the Bellevue grind surrounded by SUVs and CUVs. Man it is low...maybe only marginally safer than a motorcycle. Also a mid 80s Tercel in good condition.
I remember a friend of mine had a Pontiac T-37, which I think was a stripped Lemans. It was a '71 or '72 I believe, and it had a two-speed power glide. It had a V-8, pretty sure it was a 350.
2012 Mustang Premium, 2013 Lincoln MKX Elite, 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander.
Old MB day during my evening commute -, saw a decent W126 300SD smoothly clattering away, an older couple in a battleship of a C140 CL500, and a spotless pristine C126 that was debadged - I'll just guess 560SEC, late 80s style aftermarket wheels, either a restored car or a low mile garage queen.
@toomanyfumes said:
I remember a friend of mine had a Pontiac T-37, which I think was a stripped Lemans. It was a '71 or '72 I believe, and it had a two-speed power glide. It had a V-8, pretty sure it was a 350.
One of my friends had a '71 or '72 T-37, as well! He's a few years older than me, and this was before I knew him. Anyway, one day, in a parking lot at the University of Maryland, he came out to his car to find that it had been hit and scraped down the side. He started freaking. Well, his friend who was with him said hey, check out this car beside you. It was a '76-81 style Accord, that had some bumper damage, and the two cars had swapped paint.
Yep, whoever it was had the gall to hit his car, and simply park beside it as if it didn't matter. Turns out it was an Indian girl who said "Yeah, I hit it. But it was an old car so I thought it didn't matter!" But, the insurance companies begged to differ.
This would have been in the early 80's. I know the car had a 350, but don't know about the transmission.
The T-37 I think replaced the Tempest. Not sure who'd think "T-37" sounds better than "Tempest"?! They ended up having a 'Heavy Chevy'-like variant called the "GT-37"--like Chevy, side stripes and Rally Wheels without trim rings.
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@uplanderguy said:
The T-37 I think replaced the Tempest. Not sure who'd think "T-37" sounds better than "Tempest"?! They ended up having a 'Heavy Chevy'-like variant called the "GT-37"--like Chevy, side stripes and Rally Wheels without trim rings.
The T-37 was a trainer jet for the Air Force, I'd have thought "F-4" or something like that would have been a better name...
I'd have to look it up, but I think "37" is the code for "hardtop coupe" in GM speak. I know "69" is "4-door sedan", from having my grandmother's '85 LeSabre.
I remember Mopar was "21" for 2-door sedan, "41" for 4-door sedan, "23" for 2-door hardtop, and "43" for 4-door hardtop. My '79 R-bodies, which they bill as a "Pillared Hardtop" (frameless windows, but a B-pillar) have the code "42". I think they might have still been using that "42" code for the first-gen Neon, which had frameless windows.
I only remember J is a Lark hardtop, K is a Hawk hardtop, Y is a Lark 4-door, P is a Lark wagon and F is a Lark two-door sedan! Oh, and L is a Lark convertible. LOL
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@andre1969 said:
I'd have to look it up, but I think "37" is the code for "hardtop coupe" in GM speak. I know "69" is "4-door sedan", from having my grandmother's '85 LeSabre.
I remember Mopar was "21" for 2-door sedan, "41" for 4-door sedan, "23" for 2-door hardtop, and "43" for 4-door hardtop. My '79 R-bodies, which they bill as a "Pillared Hardtop" (frameless windows, but a B-pillar) have the code "42". I think they might have still been using that "42" code for the first-gen Neon, which had frameless windows.
Well, I know that my '68 Cutlass 2-door hardtop is model # 3687. Maybe 37 is Pontiac-code.
@ab348 said:
Well, I know that my '68 Cutlass 2-door hardtop is model # 3687. Maybe 37 is Pontiac-code.
Yeah, looks like GM got more unique with their numbers than Mopar did. With Mopar, "23" was a hardtop whether it was a Dart, Charger, Coronet, Fury, or Imperial. At least, starting in 1966.
FWIW, by 1976, it looks like Olds used "37" for the Cutlass S- and Salon coupes, which had the more rakish roofline like my LeMans. For the more formal, Monte Carlo/Grand Prix type roofline, it was "57". "37" is also what they used for my '76 LeMans. It was D37 for the base coupe, F37 for the Sport Coupe, and G37 for the Grand LeMans coupe. So, in later years they did start standardizing a bit.
Catching up on my automotive reading today. Fin, I know you are a fan of the 60 Ford wagon, and I think you may have mentioned your father had a red one. Well, the April edition of Collectible Automobile magazine has a picture of that very vehicle in the car spotters section. I also believe either you or Uplander maybe have mentioned you liked, or once owned a 67 Ford. There is an article in the April Hemming's Classic Car magazine about a nice restored yellow convertible version. When I was younger, I wasn't really a fan of that car, or most 67's for that matter. But as I age I rather like it these days. Now maybe taste improves with age, or maybe senility sets in! Andre, that magazine also has a short article clarifying some Desoto myths. Lemko, I know you're a Cadillac man, but that magazine also has an article on a rather pristine 67 Olds Town Sedan that I think you might appreciate. Fun day today!
I'm still burning through my DVD collection of The F.B.I. TV series, up to season 6 currently. I have acquired an encyclopedic knowledge of Ford vehicles of the '50s, '60s and '70s as a result as they were used almost exclusively on the show. The cars used by the G-men seemed to usually have 390s under the hood based on the emblems seen, usually but not always Custom sedans. Ford wagons were often the choice of bad guys or con men. Pickup trucks were often seen, but usually none newer than the mid-60s and often '50s models were used. Not too many Falcons, and an occasional Fairlane or Mustang, but the focus seemed to remain on the big cars.
Insp. Erskine drove a Mustang in the closing credits through the '69 model year, graduating to the beak-nose Thunderbird in 1970, and in '71 (season I'm watching now), he switches between a LTD and a Cougar.
Sounds cool, I will have to check that out. Yeah, back in the 90s, my dad had a red and white 60
Country Sedan, it was a really neat old car. Funny thing, he had a 67 Galaxie convertible, light yellow, when new - but that was many years before I was born.
@berri said:
Catching up on my automotive reading today. Fin, I know you are a fan of the 60 Ford wagon,
I must have come from a weird family. We did have a Chevy wagon when I was little, but when I was 7 the folks bought a Volvo 4 door. Stick shift of course. And replaced that when I was in HS with an early Omni. Another stick, replaced a few years later with a 2nd Omni stick. At least when that one got crappy, they replaced it with a Civic 4 door stick, followed for some reason by a Saturn Sl2 stick.
I've had two new Cavalier sticks--a four-door and a coupe--and a Cobalt 4-door stick. All have been good cars. Got a combined 241K on the first two and both had life left in 'em when I traded. My Cobalt has 75K miles. All were built just 40 miles down the road from where I live.
A friend and coworker never owned an automatic until the year 2000. He's never owned anything but Ford products and is happy. He had a new '79 Mercury Zephyr Z-7 with 302 and 4-speed. I remember it....a firethorn-like color, in and out.
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I've always wondered how those early Fox cars performed with the 302? I think the Fairmont/Zephyr only offered it for 1979-80? Maybe just '79? It only had around 130-140 hp, but those were pretty lightweight cars. And I think Ford tended to use slightly more aggressive gearing competing GM and Mopar models. I imagine one with a 4-speed could have been kinda fun. I think the vast majority of them were just 200-6es though. Back in college, one of my buddies, who had an '85 Cavalier sedan with an automatic, would occasionally drive his family's Fairmont, and it just had the 4-cyl!
I know a 4-cyl sounds horrible in a car that big, but they were lightweight enough that I don't think they were much slower than, say, a Volare with the 225 slant six, Nova with the 250, or a Malibu with one of those tiny 200 V-6es.
I had the same engine in a '77 Cobra II with a 4-speed.. 2bbl, 135 HP.. Now, that's a crappier chassis than the Fox, but same drivetrain and similar weight, I think..
Very, very quick off the line.... 2nd gear would only get you to about 45 MPH at redline, and then it was all over.... Top speed of about 108 mph.
I bought the car when I was 18, and went through 2 clutches in 48K miles (and the 3rd one was toast when I sold it)...
Back in 1998, when my '86 Monte Carlo was in the process of getting totaled out after a T-bone incident, I drove it to a couple body shops to get second opinions. One local guy, that my family has dealt with before, had a 1984 or 85 Cougar in his parking lot, with a 302, but the 4-speed automatic, that he was selling for $1500. Even though I've tended to prefer Mopar and GM, that Cougar was a nice car. I actually hadn't thought about that car in a long time, until this conversation just came up. It might have been a better car than what I ended up getting...a 1989 Gran Fury ex copcar with a 318-4bbl that got surprisingly good economy on the highway, but sucked around town delivering pizzas, and required premium fuel.
There is an early Fairmont around here that has been a hobby car for someone. It's a 2-door, resprayed orange, and seems to have a lot of Fox-body Mustang pieces on it, like mid-80s Mustang alloys. It has a 302, probably built up some, and seems to run well. It's fairly unique and probably performs as well as similar Mustangs from the mid-80s. It does look a little bit "off" though, since most of those Fairmonts were plain-jane, dull-as-dishwater cars.
We considered buying a Fairmont or Zephyr when they came out in the late '70s, but they just seemed so stripped-down. You could option them up to make them nicer, but you almost never saw one like that around here. I remember driving one on a rainy day, and the water drops that fell on the roof from overhead wires (bigger than normal raindrops) sounded like they were going to dent the roof. They made a loud sound and it seemed the roof panel had no insulation at all.
@ab348 said:
We considered buying a Fairmont or Zephyr when they came out in the late '70s, but they just seemed so stripped-down. You could option them up to make them nicer, but you almost never saw one like that around here.
Now that you mention it, I've noticed that, too. Most of the ones I've seen, seemed really stripped and basic. In contrast, I've seen some really nicely equipped Novas and Volares. I wonder if one reason the Fairmont was so basic is that Ford figured you'd get a Granada if you wanted a ritzier compact, and an LTD-II if you wanted a midsize?
With GM, while the Malibu got shrunken down to Nova-size for '78, it was higher priced, and marketed as a midsize, so maybe that's why they allowed for a more upscale Nova? With Mopar, it gets a bit more muddled, as they had the Diplomat and LeBaron, which were the same platform as the Aspen/Volare, but pricier. And I guess the styling differences were enough that they seemed like different cars. So perhaps a Volare Premier or Aspen S/E didn't overlap too much with a LeBaron or Diplomat.
The only rental car that left me stranded was about an '80 Fairmont. Its interior was pretty industrial-grade, but about the color of a pumpkin. I think that's one area where the GM midsizers had it all over the Fairmont/Zephyr, even with the fixed rear-sedan windows (pretty inexcusable, I know). To me, a Fairmont felt like a big compact, while a Malibu Classic or Cutlass Salon felt like a smaller big car.
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@uplanderguy said:
To me, a Fairmont felt like a big compact, while a Malibu Classic or Cutlass Salon felt like a smaller big car.
That's a pretty good analogy. My grandparents on my Dad's side of the family had an '85 LTD, which was Fox-based, and when I had my learner's permit I did a lot of driving in it. There were some things I liked about it, compared to my Mom's '80 Malibu. It was more nimble and easier to parallel park. And its fuel injected 232 V-6 seemed peppier than the 2-bbl carbureted 229 in Mom's Malibu. But overall, the Malibu just felt more substantial. It felt roomier, as well. The LTD was trimmed pretty nicely though, better than my Malibu.
Before the LTD, they had an '81 Granada 2-door, which was essentially a tarted up Fairmont. I was just a kid when they got that, and only 15 when they traded, so I never got to drive it. And hadn't fully grown up yet, to accurately compare how it felt, with regards to interior room. I'm sure it would be the same as a Fairmont. And it was more of a 2-door sedan than a coupe, and had an extra-blocky, formal roofline, that may have given it a bit more headroom than the Fairmonts. Or that LTD, which was a bit slicker.
I think I've relayed this here before, but I had my '81 Monte Carlo stolen in Nov. '82--never recovered. As a rental, I received an '81 or '82 Mercury "Cougar" 2-door sedan--like a Fairmont. I detested it next to my Chevy. Everything was square (although I've heard that's the way "The Deuce" liked styling), it had dinky tires and wheels with four lug nuts, and there was a seam right at eye-level on the "C" pillar, covered with a piece of plastic or fiberglass trim. Ugh!...at least for perception. They might've been good cars, I don't know.
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I've been streaming old episodes of Adam-12 through Netflix and in EVERY episode (so far) that I've watched there is a bronze '67 Mustang with a white vinyl top. There is also a Rambler Ambassador around the same year that is in nearly every episode. It's also kinda a brown color with a black vinyl roof.
It's amazing how primitive those programs were in comparison to what's out now.
A lot of the shots are on obvious studio sets.
In one chase scene, they begin in a '67 Plymouth and it turns into a '68!
Just for kicks I "googled" Martin Milnar and Kent Mc Cord. Milner is, I believe 83 now and Mc Cord is about ten years younger. Mc Cord looked like a high school senior in those days.
Then I realize, it's been over 40 years! My Gawd....feeling OLD!
I wonder sometimes, about those cars that show up in TV shows, movies, etc. I guess some of them might be personal cars of the cast/crew etc, some might be on loan from companies? And some might be owned by the studio?
There was an episode of "Mama's Family" where Betty White actually drove her own car, a 1977 Seville that was a green so pale it looks white on some tv sets. In the original "Night of the Living Dead", the '66-67 Pontiac LeMans that's featured at the beginning belonged to the mother of the producer, or something like that. It ended up being involved in a minor accident, so they worked the body damage into the script.
And "CHiPs" tended to re-use cars a lot, I think. For example, I remember one episode that had a little Mazda in it. The driver passes a '63 Olds and hollers out, "Get a skateboard, it's faster!" or something like that. Olds driver gets mad, goes after the Mazda, and runs him off the road. Bu tthen, magically, the steering, brakes, transmission, and ignition all screw up at the same time, the Olds goes out of control, and starts knocking off cars left and right.
An episode or two later, a little Mazda, same color, and sporting some minor side damage (as if sideswiped by a '63 Olds), gets run under a tractor trailer! So, I'm guessing it was the same Mazda.
As for the '63 Olds, someone on IMCDB pointed out that a few episodes earlier, there was a brown '63 Olds used a few times. It had a big dent in the right rear quarter panel. The one in that "Get a skateboard!" episode was blue. But had brown wheels. And a big dent in the rear quarter.
As for "Night of the Living Dead", it was colorized three different times. One time the car was made red, one time it was blue, and one time is was a goldish-yellow. Apparently, the original car was "Palmetto Green".
I'll catch Adam 12 on occasion. And Emergency. The budgetary limitations definitely show through, by today's standards. But I think, in general, they put bigger budgets into tv shows now than back in the day. I heard, for example, that the average "Twilight Zone" episode was around $30-40,000. Supposedly the most expensive "Leave it to Beaver" episode was around $65,000, and it was one where Beaver climbed up on a billboard advertising soup, to see if there was anything in the bowl, and fell in. And even in big budget events they still find ways to cut corners. For instance, the original "V" in 1983 was around $20M I think, which was probably the most ever spent for a network tv movie at the time. Yet they still ran out of money. And time. In the director's commentary, director Kenneth Johnson complains about some matte lines they didn't have time to take out, laser blasts costing $600 per shot, and no time to build models of the motherships, so they were all matte paintings. Some more effective than others.
I wonder if some of these old shows just come off as cheesy nowadays because with improved television technology, hi-def, etc, things show up as flaws that simply didn't, in the old days? Plus, with the ability to pause, rewind, etc, I think our eye just gets trained to catch flaws and such.
Not sure about the old days but there are "car brokers" who specialize in obtaining cars for the studios. They'll track down a classic if the plot line depends on one and negotiate a rental with the owner. Here's the first net hit for one: Cinema Vehicle Service although this outfit doesn't offer private cars.
I only vaguely remember this, but Frances Bavier ('Aunt Bee') actually drove her own '66 Studebaker Daytona Sports Sedan, Algonquin green, on "Mayberry R.F.D.". I wish I could find an episode showing it on YT, but I can't. I owned that very same model, different color green though. A guy I've met in the Studebaker Drivers' Club worked at a large LA Stude dealer back then and remembers Miss Bavier bringing her '62 Lark in for service. She is actually in the 1972 Studebaker Drivers' Club membership roster, but only for that year. By that time she actually lived in Siler City, NC, much as her character on 'the Andy Griffith Show' was from.
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@Stever@Edmunds said:
Not sure about the old days but there are "car brokers" who specialize in obtaining cars for the studios. They'll track down a classic if the plot line depends on one and negotiate a rental with the owner. Here's the first net hit for one: Cinema Vehicle Service although this outfit doesn't offer private cars.
I got involved with some outfit, briefly, back in 2006. They were filming a movie locally in DC called "Talk to Me" and needed a variety of cars from the 50's on up to early 80's. I think they put out word to a couple of local car clubs initially. One of my friends, who has a '78 Mark V, told me about it, so I contacted them and they were interested in my '76 LeMans.
I remember it was a hot, brutal day, and cars kept breaking down, overheating, etc. We had to be there around 5 in the morning, and I don't think I got home until around 9:30 at night. I can't remember how much I got paid for it. I think it was $250, plus they fed us all day. Looking back, I don't think I'd ever do it again. Once was enough! Oh, and for all that time spent, you only see my car, for a fraction of a second off in the distance, towards the end of the movie. You have to know what to be looking for, or you'll miss it in the blink of an eye.
For some reason, some of them show up as thumbnails, but if you click on the magnifying glass, they show up full size. I remember they also made us put on period-looking shirts, just in case any of the shots required us to be seen in our cars. And I have no idea what the heck I was thinking, wearing black jeans on that hot, brutal day!
Oh, and I almost became an anachronism in the movie. To make the cars look more period-correct, they had us put on old license plates. The plate they gave me was from 1973. When I said the car wa a '76, the guy just said don't worry, the camera would never pick up the number on the plate. But then, a guy walked through and started picking out cars they needed for an upcoming scene, and picked my LeMans as one of them. So, I drove out to the location. Well, my buddy with the Mark V asked why they picked my car but not his, as they were close in year. He was told that the scene they were shooting took place in 1973. So, needless to say, I got a call on my cell telling me to come back! I don't think my buddy's Mark V ended up getting used in any of the scenes. At some point though, I think he overheated. One problem was that they had us keep moving cars around on that hot day, to get the "perfect" shot, and a lot of people kept turning their cars on and off, and I think the "heat sink" or whatever it's called was getting to them. I tried to keep mine running, and wouldn't shut it off if I knew I was going to start it right back up in a minute or two.
@andre1969 said:
We had to be there around 5 in the morning
Well, that explains how everyone managed to find a parking place! Fun story; stuff like that always sounds glamorous until you get stuck waiting around all day and then you barely make the final cut.
@andre1969 said:
I wonder sometimes, about those cars that show up in TV shows, movies, etc. I guess some of them might be personal cars of the cast/crew etc, some might be on loan from companies? And some might be owned by the studio?
I remember reading a piece about The Rockford Files, which tended to reuse background cars each season, Many of those were crew members personal vehicles. There was one episode with a mid-60s white Comet station wagon, for example, that was central to the plot, which was a crewman's car that he drove to and from the set each day.
Most companies that rent to movies and TV are brokers--they don't own the cars. Renting your car to a movie or TV show is not something I'd necessarily recommend doing.
Just looked up my records, and I got paid $275 to put my car in that movie. Or, effectively, about $18 or so per hour, considering I was there about 16 hours. As a one time experience, it was kinda fun, and moreso since I had a few friends there. But, not anything I care to repeat, anytime soon!
Oh, as for finding a parking space, they actually had large parts of the streets blocked off for us. However, in the scene that my car was in, they only had about 4 or 5 spaces, so if the camera panned too far in either direction, you would see modern cars. And, sure enough, that's what happened. IIRC, one of the crew vans, a modern white Ford Econoline, briefly got into the shot.
When I lived in So. California there were a lot of celebrities living in the area. As a very young guy working at Sears in Torrance, I once sold a battery to Efrem Zimbilist Jr. This would have been in the mid 70's. He lived in an exclusive gated community in Rolling Hills.
I remember he had a 1970 T-Bird and I remember how down to earth and nice he was. Maybe he
was loyal to Ford from his FBI days. When I was at Sears, I also dealt with Broderick Crawford and Alan Alda was in there at least once.
@isellhondas said:
When I lived in So. California there were a lot of celebrities living in the area. As a very young guy working at Sears in Torrance, I once sold a battery to Efrem Zimbilist Jr. This would have been in the mid 70's. He lived in an exclusive gated community in Rolling Hills.
I remember he had a 1970 T-Bird and I remember how down to earth and nice he was. Maybe he
was loyal to Ford from his FBI days. When I was at Sears, I also dealt with Broderick Crawford and Alan Alda was in there at least once.
Cool story. I wonder if the '70 T-Bird was the one he drove in the closing credits that year?
I assume he had it installed at the Auto Center and wasn't a DIY guy who would put that DieHard in himself.
I'd love to have my car in a movie (with me driving it or watching over it) - but as so little of the Seattle metro area has escaped modernization other than some residential areas, I don't know if any period pieces will ever be shot here. Some of the small towns are like time warps though. It'd be neat to give a fintail some exposure - but as it was an uncommon car even when new, demand might be limited.
Speaking of T-Birds, there's a very nice 72 running around Bellevue - maybe isell has seen it. I think it is a very dark green with a white top, the kind that has faux landau bars in place of the opera window. It's sitting on 70s style mags, has a subtle hood scoop, fairly stock ride height, and sounds muted but definitely a little mean. It's always kept immaculate. I saw it this morning.
@andre1969 said:
Just looked up my records, and I got paid $275 to put my car in that movie.
Comments
Packard had push buttons back in 1956, but they were electronic, like the new Lincoln, not clunky cables like the Mopars. When they worked, the Packard's buttons were smooth and quiet.
I have a hard time calling that a column shifter. It's more of a delicate, petite way to select a gear.
"When they worked"--my dealer friend had to go pick up a Caribbean's owner two hours away because his car wouldn't go into reverse. It was a contact in the pushbutton system while the car was still quite new. And the car was eighteenth from the last Packard convertible made (serial 5699-1258), so it was late production.
A longtime acquaintance has two or three collector '56 Packard cars with pushbutton, and I don't think he's had issues though, but he barely drives them. I do like the '56's because of the rarity, being the last, and the Torsion-Level system. I think it's a pretty good facelift of the '51 body, too.
The first Edsels had pushbuttons too, right in the middle of the steering wheel.
They caused trouble too to the point some owners rigged up floor shifters.
Maybe not like a 4 on the tree, or even the fintail's notchy column stalk, but it is more involved than pushing a button, or even worse, a screen. And it doesn't have the false pretense of sport found with a console shift in an otherwise unexciting mid lux car. It also makes the interior seem more spacious. wide open console.
I believe Mercury used pushbuttons for a year or two, as well. Dunno if they were mechanical or electrical though.
One thing that was pretty cool about the Mopar setup, in 1957 at least, is that it was "smart" enough to not let you engage the lower gears at too high of a speed. I want to say the threshold was 50 mph for first and 70 for second? I did accidentally hit the "1" button once at too high of a speed on my DeSoto, and I remember it wouldn't engage. Also, if you were going forward at a speed faster than 11 mph and hit reverse, it would go into neutral. Still, I guess going into reverse when you're moving forward at, say, 10 mph, isn't a good thing, is it?
Ah yes, the flick of a single digit on a stalk is so engaging versus the touch of a single digit on a button or screen.
I was rereading my Classic Car magazine and realized the 1931 Hupmobile was located in Centerville a suburb of Dayton. And I can recall a few years back taking pictures at a local auto show of it and its trailer.
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Hey, it's also good enough for Tesla. I think switchgear is more engaging than a screen, especially. At least it is pretend-mechanical.
I'm just poking at you. I believe those little stalks, wheels, buttons for gear selection to be different just for the sake of being different. At least an floor mounted gear selector for an automatic transmission still has a mechanical linkage between.
Then again, I'm a dinosaur and want to drive a stick until I'm no longer capable of doing so.
Definitely different for the sake of being different. Kind of like Lexus and Acura styling trends.
Does something like a Camry gear selector connect to anything?
I like driving, but after 10 hours at work, I'd be happy to have my car drive me home.
Even cooler if they showed correct car display signage. If that was one of the original 6 cars built then it's a Shelby Daytona Coupe. A little respect for both the car that gave Ford the 1965 World Manufacturer’s Championship and for the man quoted as saying, "Ferrari's [non-permissible content removed] is mine!"
I don't know much about the National Historic Vehicle Register except that the Shelby Daytona coupe was added first on the list. If nothing else it's still a great story to reflect back on with guys like Dan Gurney, Bob Bondurant, Peter Brock, and Carroll Shelby himself "hell bent on winning" and making history.
"Ferrari's [non-permissible content removed] is mine!"
Funny! I did a double take when I looked over my post and saw that one! For me, this new format is gonna take some getting used to... "All your non-permissible content are belong to us"
I didn't even know that Ferrari raised donkeys.
I saw one of those Caterham 7 style super kit cars this evening, in the Bellevue grind surrounded by SUVs and CUVs. Man it is low...maybe only marginally safer than a motorcycle. Also a mid 80s Tercel in good condition.
I remember a friend of mine had a Pontiac T-37, which I think was a stripped Lemans. It was a '71 or '72 I believe, and it had a two-speed power glide. It had a V-8, pretty sure it was a 350.
Old MB day during my evening commute -, saw a decent W126 300SD smoothly clattering away, an older couple in a battleship of a C140 CL500, and a spotless pristine C126 that was debadged - I'll just guess 560SEC, late 80s style aftermarket wheels, either a restored car or a low mile garage queen.
One of my friends had a '71 or '72 T-37, as well! He's a few years older than me, and this was before I knew him. Anyway, one day, in a parking lot at the University of Maryland, he came out to his car to find that it had been hit and scraped down the side. He started freaking. Well, his friend who was with him said hey, check out this car beside you. It was a '76-81 style Accord, that had some bumper damage, and the two cars had swapped paint.
Yep, whoever it was had the gall to hit his car, and simply park beside it as if it didn't matter. Turns out it was an Indian girl who said "Yeah, I hit it. But it was an old car so I thought it didn't matter!" But, the insurance companies begged to differ.
This would have been in the early 80's. I know the car had a 350, but don't know about the transmission.
The T-37 I think replaced the Tempest. Not sure who'd think "T-37" sounds better than "Tempest"?! They ended up having a 'Heavy Chevy'-like variant called the "GT-37"--like Chevy, side stripes and Rally Wheels without trim rings.
The T-37 was a trainer jet for the Air Force, I'd have thought "F-4" or something like that would have been a better name...
I always thought it had something to do with the official model number of the car. I learned something today!
I'd have to look it up, but I think "37" is the code for "hardtop coupe" in GM speak. I know "69" is "4-door sedan", from having my grandmother's '85 LeSabre.
I remember Mopar was "21" for 2-door sedan, "41" for 4-door sedan, "23" for 2-door hardtop, and "43" for 4-door hardtop. My '79 R-bodies, which they bill as a "Pillared Hardtop" (frameless windows, but a B-pillar) have the code "42". I think they might have still been using that "42" code for the first-gen Neon, which had frameless windows.
I only remember J is a Lark hardtop, K is a Hawk hardtop, Y is a Lark 4-door, P is a Lark wagon and F is a Lark two-door sedan! Oh, and L is a Lark convertible. LOL
Well, I know that my '68 Cutlass 2-door hardtop is model # 3687. Maybe 37 is Pontiac-code.
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Yeah, looks like GM got more unique with their numbers than Mopar did. With Mopar, "23" was a hardtop whether it was a Dart, Charger, Coronet, Fury, or Imperial. At least, starting in 1966.
FWIW, by 1976, it looks like Olds used "37" for the Cutlass S- and Salon coupes, which had the more rakish roofline like my LeMans. For the more formal, Monte Carlo/Grand Prix type roofline, it was "57". "37" is also what they used for my '76 LeMans. It was D37 for the base coupe, F37 for the Sport Coupe, and G37 for the Grand LeMans coupe. So, in later years they did start standardizing a bit.
Catching up on my automotive reading today. Fin, I know you are a fan of the 60 Ford wagon, and I think you may have mentioned your father had a red one. Well, the April edition of Collectible Automobile magazine has a picture of that very vehicle in the car spotters section. I also believe either you or Uplander maybe have mentioned you liked, or once owned a 67 Ford. There is an article in the April Hemming's Classic Car magazine about a nice restored yellow convertible version. When I was younger, I wasn't really a fan of that car, or most 67's for that matter. But as I age I rather like it these days. Now maybe taste improves with age, or maybe senility sets in! Andre, that magazine also has a short article clarifying some Desoto myths. Lemko, I know you're a Cadillac man, but that magazine also has an article on a rather pristine 67 Olds Town Sedan that I think you might appreciate. Fun day today!
I'm still burning through my DVD collection of The F.B.I. TV series, up to season 6 currently. I have acquired an encyclopedic knowledge of Ford vehicles of the '50s, '60s and '70s as a result as they were used almost exclusively on the show. The cars used by the G-men seemed to usually have 390s under the hood based on the emblems seen, usually but not always Custom sedans. Ford wagons were often the choice of bad guys or con men. Pickup trucks were often seen, but usually none newer than the mid-60s and often '50s models were used. Not too many Falcons, and an occasional Fairlane or Mustang, but the focus seemed to remain on the big cars.
Insp. Erskine drove a Mustang in the closing credits through the '69 model year, graduating to the beak-nose Thunderbird in 1970, and in '71 (season I'm watching now), he switches between a LTD and a Cougar.
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Sounds cool, I will have to check that out. Yeah, back in the 90s, my dad had a red and white 60
Country Sedan, it was a really neat old car. Funny thing, he had a 67 Galaxie convertible, light yellow, when new - but that was many years before I was born.
I must have come from a weird family. We did have a Chevy wagon when I was little, but when I was 7 the folks bought a Volvo 4 door. Stick shift of course. And replaced that when I was in HS with an early Omni. Another stick, replaced a few years later with a 2nd Omni stick. At least when that one got crappy, they replaced it with a Civic 4 door stick, followed for some reason by a Saturn Sl2 stick.
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I've had two new Cavalier sticks--a four-door and a coupe--and a Cobalt 4-door stick. All have been good cars. Got a combined 241K on the first two and both had life left in 'em when I traded. My Cobalt has 75K miles. All were built just 40 miles down the road from where I live.
A friend and coworker never owned an automatic until the year 2000. He's never owned anything but Ford products and is happy. He had a new '79 Mercury Zephyr Z-7 with 302 and 4-speed. I remember it....a firethorn-like color, in and out.
I've always wondered how those early Fox cars performed with the 302? I think the Fairmont/Zephyr only offered it for 1979-80? Maybe just '79? It only had around 130-140 hp, but those were pretty lightweight cars. And I think Ford tended to use slightly more aggressive gearing competing GM and Mopar models. I imagine one with a 4-speed could have been kinda fun. I think the vast majority of them were just 200-6es though. Back in college, one of my buddies, who had an '85 Cavalier sedan with an automatic, would occasionally drive his family's Fairmont, and it just had the 4-cyl!
I know a 4-cyl sounds horrible in a car that big, but they were lightweight enough that I don't think they were much slower than, say, a Volare with the 225 slant six, Nova with the 250, or a Malibu with one of those tiny 200 V-6es.
I had the same engine in a '77 Cobra II with a 4-speed.. 2bbl, 135 HP.. Now, that's a crappier chassis than the Fox, but same drivetrain and similar weight, I think..
Very, very quick off the line.... 2nd gear would only get you to about 45 MPH at redline, and then it was all over.... Top speed of about 108 mph.
I bought the car when I was 18, and went through 2 clutches in 48K miles (and the 3rd one was toast when I sold it)...
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Back in 1998, when my '86 Monte Carlo was in the process of getting totaled out after a T-bone incident, I drove it to a couple body shops to get second opinions. One local guy, that my family has dealt with before, had a 1984 or 85 Cougar in his parking lot, with a 302, but the 4-speed automatic, that he was selling for $1500. Even though I've tended to prefer Mopar and GM, that Cougar was a nice car. I actually hadn't thought about that car in a long time, until this conversation just came up. It might have been a better car than what I ended up getting...a 1989 Gran Fury ex copcar with a 318-4bbl that got surprisingly good economy on the highway, but sucked around town delivering pizzas, and required premium fuel.
There is an early Fairmont around here that has been a hobby car for someone. It's a 2-door, resprayed orange, and seems to have a lot of Fox-body Mustang pieces on it, like mid-80s Mustang alloys. It has a 302, probably built up some, and seems to run well. It's fairly unique and probably performs as well as similar Mustangs from the mid-80s. It does look a little bit "off" though, since most of those Fairmonts were plain-jane, dull-as-dishwater cars.
We considered buying a Fairmont or Zephyr when they came out in the late '70s, but they just seemed so stripped-down. You could option them up to make them nicer, but you almost never saw one like that around here. I remember driving one on a rainy day, and the water drops that fell on the roof from overhead wires (bigger than normal raindrops) sounded like they were going to dent the roof. They made a loud sound and it seemed the roof panel had no insulation at all.
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Now that you mention it, I've noticed that, too. Most of the ones I've seen, seemed really stripped and basic. In contrast, I've seen some really nicely equipped Novas and Volares. I wonder if one reason the Fairmont was so basic is that Ford figured you'd get a Granada if you wanted a ritzier compact, and an LTD-II if you wanted a midsize?
With GM, while the Malibu got shrunken down to Nova-size for '78, it was higher priced, and marketed as a midsize, so maybe that's why they allowed for a more upscale Nova? With Mopar, it gets a bit more muddled, as they had the Diplomat and LeBaron, which were the same platform as the Aspen/Volare, but pricier. And I guess the styling differences were enough that they seemed like different cars. So perhaps a Volare Premier or Aspen S/E didn't overlap too much with a LeBaron or Diplomat.
The only rental car that left me stranded was about an '80 Fairmont. Its interior was pretty industrial-grade, but about the color of a pumpkin. I think that's one area where the GM midsizers had it all over the Fairmont/Zephyr, even with the fixed rear-sedan windows (pretty inexcusable, I know). To me, a Fairmont felt like a big compact, while a Malibu Classic or Cutlass Salon felt like a smaller big car.
That's a pretty good analogy. My grandparents on my Dad's side of the family had an '85 LTD, which was Fox-based, and when I had my learner's permit I did a lot of driving in it. There were some things I liked about it, compared to my Mom's '80 Malibu. It was more nimble and easier to parallel park. And its fuel injected 232 V-6 seemed peppier than the 2-bbl carbureted 229 in Mom's Malibu. But overall, the Malibu just felt more substantial. It felt roomier, as well. The LTD was trimmed pretty nicely though, better than my Malibu.
Before the LTD, they had an '81 Granada 2-door, which was essentially a tarted up Fairmont. I was just a kid when they got that, and only 15 when they traded, so I never got to drive it. And hadn't fully grown up yet, to accurately compare how it felt, with regards to interior room. I'm sure it would be the same as a Fairmont. And it was more of a 2-door sedan than a coupe, and had an extra-blocky, formal roofline, that may have given it a bit more headroom than the Fairmonts. Or that LTD, which was a bit slicker.
I think I've relayed this here before, but I had my '81 Monte Carlo stolen in Nov. '82--never recovered. As a rental, I received an '81 or '82 Mercury "Cougar" 2-door sedan--like a Fairmont. I detested it next to my Chevy. Everything was square (although I've heard that's the way "The Deuce" liked styling), it had dinky tires and wheels with four lug nuts, and there was a seam right at eye-level on the "C" pillar, covered with a piece of plastic or fiberglass trim. Ugh!...at least for perception. They might've been good cars, I don't know.
I've been streaming old episodes of Adam-12 through Netflix and in EVERY episode (so far) that I've watched there is a bronze '67 Mustang with a white vinyl top. There is also a Rambler Ambassador around the same year that is in nearly every episode. It's also kinda a brown color with a black vinyl roof.
It's amazing how primitive those programs were in comparison to what's out now.
A lot of the shots are on obvious studio sets.
In one chase scene, they begin in a '67 Plymouth and it turns into a '68!
Just for kicks I "googled" Martin Milnar and Kent Mc Cord. Milner is, I believe 83 now and Mc Cord is about ten years younger. Mc Cord looked like a high school senior in those days.
Then I realize, it's been over 40 years! My Gawd....feeling OLD!
I wonder sometimes, about those cars that show up in TV shows, movies, etc. I guess some of them might be personal cars of the cast/crew etc, some might be on loan from companies? And some might be owned by the studio?
There was an episode of "Mama's Family" where Betty White actually drove her own car, a 1977 Seville that was a green so pale it looks white on some tv sets. In the original "Night of the Living Dead", the '66-67 Pontiac LeMans that's featured at the beginning belonged to the mother of the producer, or something like that. It ended up being involved in a minor accident, so they worked the body damage into the script.
And "CHiPs" tended to re-use cars a lot, I think. For example, I remember one episode that had a little Mazda in it. The driver passes a '63 Olds and hollers out, "Get a skateboard, it's faster!" or something like that. Olds driver gets mad, goes after the Mazda, and runs him off the road. Bu tthen, magically, the steering, brakes, transmission, and ignition all screw up at the same time, the Olds goes out of control, and starts knocking off cars left and right.
An episode or two later, a little Mazda, same color, and sporting some minor side damage (as if sideswiped by a '63 Olds), gets run under a tractor trailer! So, I'm guessing it was the same Mazda.
As for the '63 Olds, someone on IMCDB pointed out that a few episodes earlier, there was a brown '63 Olds used a few times. It had a big dent in the right rear quarter panel. The one in that "Get a skateboard!" episode was blue. But had brown wheels. And a big dent in the rear quarter.
As for "Night of the Living Dead", it was colorized three different times. One time the car was made red, one time it was blue, and one time is was a goldish-yellow. Apparently, the original car was "Palmetto Green".
I'll catch Adam 12 on occasion. And Emergency. The budgetary limitations definitely show through, by today's standards. But I think, in general, they put bigger budgets into tv shows now than back in the day. I heard, for example, that the average "Twilight Zone" episode was around $30-40,000. Supposedly the most expensive "Leave it to Beaver" episode was around $65,000, and it was one where Beaver climbed up on a billboard advertising soup, to see if there was anything in the bowl, and fell in. And even in big budget events they still find ways to cut corners. For instance, the original "V" in 1983 was around $20M I think, which was probably the most ever spent for a network tv movie at the time. Yet they still ran out of money. And time. In the director's commentary, director Kenneth Johnson complains about some matte lines they didn't have time to take out, laser blasts costing $600 per shot, and no time to build models of the motherships, so they were all matte paintings. Some more effective than others.
I wonder if some of these old shows just come off as cheesy nowadays because with improved television technology, hi-def, etc, things show up as flaws that simply didn't, in the old days? Plus, with the ability to pause, rewind, etc, I think our eye just gets trained to catch flaws and such.
Not sure about the old days but there are "car brokers" who specialize in obtaining cars for the studios. They'll track down a classic if the plot line depends on one and negotiate a rental with the owner. Here's the first net hit for one: Cinema Vehicle Service although this outfit doesn't offer private cars.
I only vaguely remember this, but Frances Bavier ('Aunt Bee') actually drove her own '66 Studebaker Daytona Sports Sedan, Algonquin green, on "Mayberry R.F.D.". I wish I could find an episode showing it on YT, but I can't. I owned that very same model, different color green though. A guy I've met in the Studebaker Drivers' Club worked at a large LA Stude dealer back then and remembers Miss Bavier bringing her '62 Lark in for service. She is actually in the 1972 Studebaker Drivers' Club membership roster, but only for that year. By that time she actually lived in Siler City, NC, much as her character on 'the Andy Griffith Show' was from.
I got involved with some outfit, briefly, back in 2006. They were filming a movie locally in DC called "Talk to Me" and needed a variety of cars from the 50's on up to early 80's. I think they put out word to a couple of local car clubs initially. One of my friends, who has a '78 Mark V, told me about it, so I contacted them and they were interested in my '76 LeMans.
I remember it was a hot, brutal day, and cars kept breaking down, overheating, etc. We had to be there around 5 in the morning, and I don't think I got home until around 9:30 at night. I can't remember how much I got paid for it. I think it was $250, plus they fed us all day. Looking back, I don't think I'd ever do it again. Once was enough! Oh, and for all that time spent, you only see my car, for a fraction of a second off in the distance, towards the end of the movie. You have to know what to be looking for, or you'll miss it in the blink of an eye.
Here's some pics I took on that day: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jgandrew/library/Movie Shoot
For some reason, some of them show up as thumbnails, but if you click on the magnifying glass, they show up full size. I remember they also made us put on period-looking shirts, just in case any of the shots required us to be seen in our cars. And I have no idea what the heck I was thinking, wearing black jeans on that hot, brutal day!
Oh, and I almost became an anachronism in the movie. To make the cars look more period-correct, they had us put on old license plates. The plate they gave me was from 1973. When I said the car wa a '76, the guy just said don't worry, the camera would never pick up the number on the plate. But then, a guy walked through and started picking out cars they needed for an upcoming scene, and picked my LeMans as one of them. So, I drove out to the location. Well, my buddy with the Mark V asked why they picked my car but not his, as they were close in year. He was told that the scene they were shooting took place in 1973. So, needless to say, I got a call on my cell telling me to come back! I don't think my buddy's Mark V ended up getting used in any of the scenes. At some point though, I think he overheated. One problem was that they had us keep moving cars around on that hot day, to get the "perfect" shot, and a lot of people kept turning their cars on and off, and I think the "heat sink" or whatever it's called was getting to them. I tried to keep mine running, and wouldn't shut it off if I knew I was going to start it right back up in a minute or two.
Well, that explains how everyone managed to find a parking place! Fun story; stuff like that always sounds glamorous until you get stuck waiting around all day and then you barely make the final cut.
I remember reading a piece about The Rockford Files, which tended to reuse background cars each season, Many of those were crew members personal vehicles. There was one episode with a mid-60s white Comet station wagon, for example, that was central to the plot, which was a crewman's car that he drove to and from the set each day.
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Most companies that rent to movies and TV are brokers--they don't own the cars. Renting your car to a movie or TV show is not something I'd necessarily recommend doing.
Just looked up my records, and I got paid $275 to put my car in that movie. Or, effectively, about $18 or so per hour, considering I was there about 16 hours. As a one time experience, it was kinda fun, and moreso since I had a few friends there. But, not anything I care to repeat, anytime soon!
Oh, as for finding a parking space, they actually had large parts of the streets blocked off for us. However, in the scene that my car was in, they only had about 4 or 5 spaces, so if the camera panned too far in either direction, you would see modern cars. And, sure enough, that's what happened. IIRC, one of the crew vans, a modern white Ford Econoline, briefly got into the shot.
When I lived in So. California there were a lot of celebrities living in the area. As a very young guy working at Sears in Torrance, I once sold a battery to Efrem Zimbilist Jr. This would have been in the mid 70's. He lived in an exclusive gated community in Rolling Hills.
I remember he had a 1970 T-Bird and I remember how down to earth and nice he was. Maybe he
was loyal to Ford from his FBI days. When I was at Sears, I also dealt with Broderick Crawford and Alan Alda was in there at least once.
Cool story. I wonder if the '70 T-Bird was the one he drove in the closing credits that year?
I assume he had it installed at the Auto Center and wasn't a DIY guy who would put that DieHard in himself.
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I'd love to have my car in a movie (with me driving it or watching over it) - but as so little of the Seattle metro area has escaped modernization other than some residential areas, I don't know if any period pieces will ever be shot here. Some of the small towns are like time warps though. It'd be neat to give a fintail some exposure - but as it was an uncommon car even when new, demand might be limited.
Speaking of T-Birds, there's a very nice 72 running around Bellevue - maybe isell has seen it. I think it is a very dark green with a white top, the kind that has faux landau bars in place of the opera window. It's sitting on 70s style mags, has a subtle hood scoop, fairly stock ride height, and sounds muted but definitely a little mean. It's always kept immaculate. I saw it this morning.