I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

bhill2

andre1969 said:

I couldn't find a '73 Grand Prix brochure...closest I could find was a '74 Grand Am. It mentions "Mahogany trim" but doesn't say if it's real or not.

I found a '73 Pontiac brochure that included the Grand Prix on the site 'American Car Brochures'. It states "The new instrument panel looks like real wood because it is." So at least Pontiac considers it real wood, although I assume it is a veneer.

kyfdx

Yeah... .but veneer is real wood, right? I had a wood dash on my '67 BMW... and, still veneer.

texases

Oh yeah, veneer is wood, almost all real wood in cars is veneer.

stickguy

it almost has to be, considering how thin and contoured it needs to be.

stever

The substrate can be wood too (usually something cheap, like pine). But I have no idea what the veneer backing on older cars was.

laurasdada

Parked next to me today, a green Buick Reatta Coupe.

lemko

uplanderguy said:

I can remember when silver paint didn't seem to hold up over the years as well as other colors--I'm talking about in the '70's. Not sure why.

I always hated when silver cars had blue interiors and/or blue vinyl tops. Of course, since no one has offered a blue interior in almost thirty years, that's not a problem anymore (sigh).

You'd have HATED my 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. It was Georgian Silver Metallic with a dark blue top and leather interior.

uplanderguy

Well, that's such a nice car I'll overlook it.

After not liking all that much, '73 and '74 Cadillacs, I liked the minor styling revisions of the '75.

In fact, now, but not then, I like the bright plaid interiors of the rarely-seen Calais models of '75 and '76. Very 'seventies'.

A bailbondsman in my hometown--still in business--had a dark blue with white vinyl top and blue velour four-place interior, '74 Fleetwood Talisman, a pretty rare piece.

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

Well, that's such a nice car I'll overlook it.

A bailbondsman in my hometown--still in business--had a dark blue with white vinyl top and blue velour four-place interior, '74 Fleetwood Talisman, a pretty rare piece.

The ultimate in over-the-top. I heard that the Talisman option on the Fleetwood cost more than a new Pinto. Of course, if you got the leather option it cost even more.

uplanderguy

I think the four-position seating was only the '74's, although I could be off a year. I think the leather wasn't an option at the beginning of the run either. I do seem to remember seeing in the brochure that it was optional later. I would love to see one in leather, but haven't. I think I only ever saw two--the one from my hometown and a pigged-out one on the back of a used-car lot probably twenty years ago. It was a four-seater, and had a stick holding the back of one of the front seat backs up.

fintail

There are some mint low mileage Talismans out there too - apparently people saved them, and they have a following.

Saw a late run Toronado Trofeo today.

uplanderguy

I never liked on the Trofeo and last Toronados, that big black seam around the rear-end of the car.

uplanderguy

Speaking of '75 Sedan deVilles earlier, my best high-school buddy worked for a drug store on Main St. and the owner had a new, pale brown metallic (don't know what it was called--very much like that ubiquitous light brown metallic on '83-84 Rivieras) '75 SDV with dark brown vinyl top and cloth interior. His boss would give him ten bucks to go wash it at the car wash, so my buddy would pick me up to be "seen" in it, including driving past the consecutive houses of three of the cutest girls in our class (not the cheerleader I've mentioned earlier! LOL). Didn't do me any good though.

uplanderguy

How's this for an old-car story? Turn-signal lever from '63 Thunderbird removed from man's arm 51 years after car accident:

http://www.wpxi.com/ap/ap/top-news/51-years-after-wreck-7-inch-car-part-found-in-arm/njd2Z/

A friend of mine replied, "Parts hoarder". LOL

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Well, that's such a nice car I'll overlook it.

After not liking all that much, '73 and '74 Cadillacs, I liked the minor styling revisions of the '75.

One styling feature I never liked was quad headlights that were widely spaced...whether they had a turn signal between them or not. So because of that, I never cared for the '71-73 Caddy. I thought the '74 was an improvement, but the grille was just a bit too bold and garish. I thought the '75-76, with the rectangular headlights and toned-down grilles, were a tasteful update.

In general, I tended to like the updates to all of those 70's cars that converted them to rectangular quad headlights. However I really wasn't a fan of the stacked quad headlights, such as on the '76 Monte Carlo, Malibu, and 4-door Century/Regal, '77 LTD-II, and '77+ Cordoba, Fury, and Monaco.

My attitude has softened on all of these cars over the years, especially now that they're not common sights anymore.

As for the Talisman, I've seen them every once in awhile. IIRC, the "Das Awkscht Fescht" car show in Magungie PA and the Hershey PA car shows are where one is most likely to put in an appearance around these parts. I seem to recall seeing a midnight blue one, and a brown one, at various times in the past.

roadburner

I thought that the 1976-1977 Regal, Cutlass, and Grand Prix were the best looking intermediates of their time. Like you, I thought that the Monte Carlo's stacked quads looked awful.

uplanderguy

At the time, I liked the '76 Monte Carlo. I thought the stacks looked fairly good; didn't knock me out one way or the other. I liked the taillights that resembled the '74's, and I liked that they resisted the urge to add a hood ornament. That they did in '77 and capped the taillights...yuck.

I liked the stacks with the '76 Malibu Classic grille. I always wished you could have bought a Malibu Classic with the large triangular quarter window and without a hood ornament. You could only get that large quarter window from '74-76 with the bargain-basement interior, unlike Buick and Olds. Pontiac had a better interior too.

I really like the '76 Buick Century and Regal coupe re-skin (sedans and wagons didn't get it). I could like a '76 Century coupe, triangular quarter window, optional interior with fold-down armrest, wheel-opening trim and those wonderful chrome Buick road wheels..in a nice firethorn color. Nice to dream.

I didn't like those last Grand Prixs of that era. A lot had that wide side molding tacked down the side (Montes got a wide molding too, just not quite as wide), and I never liked how they took that wonderful '73 and '74 door panel and stuck the flimsy-looking Monte Carlo 'suitcase strap' up on the woodgrain part. It looks better without it IMHO.

I can remember oohing and ahhing over a maroon '73 Grand Prix SJ with black vinyl top, in our Pontiac dealer's showroom. Again, that uber-chiseled look, mostly from the rear, didn't do it for me but man, that interior did. Magnificent.

ab348

The Buick Century sedan of '76-'77 had one of the uglier front ends of that era thanks to the stacked headlights. The coupe looked so much better.

fintail

I like the angular front end of 75-76 Caddys too, a nice update that kept a fairly old body looking relatively fresh. Well done.

On the square lights subject, this always caught my eye, maybe as my parents had one when I was little - the 72-76 T-Bird has round lights, but in kind of square (squircle?) bezels, so it is a mix of both.

uplanderguy

I sure haven't seen one for a long time, but an acquaintance who belongs to our Ohio Region Stude club has a black '72 Mark IV Continental on blackwalls and real wire wheels--looks nice but is definitely gargantuan!

Fin, its funny, '64 Avantis with round headlights in a square bezel are just known as 'square headlight' models.

andre1969

With regards to the stacked headlights, I think the '76-77 Chevelle pulled off the look fairly well. With the '76-77 Century/Regal sedans, I think the problem is that the headlights appear to be mounted too far outboard, and give the car an awkward look. Plus, the turn signals mounted between the grille and stacked lights just make the front-end look too busy.

It's a shame they didn't try to graft the coupe front-end onto the sedan body, like Olds was able to do with the Cutlass. Although, that version of the Cutlass that had the more slicked-back front end seemed a bit awkward.

ab348

I never understood the rationale for stacking quad rectangular sealed beams. They would have allowed a lower hoodline if positioned side by side and would have made the car look sleeker. Stacking them just looked awkward.

lemko

The Ford LTD II also stacked the quad rectangular lights. I never liked the look of it. It looks like they just shoved two lights in each headlamp nacelle once occupied by one round light of the old Ford Elite.

fintail

Stopped by the local high end special interest lot today, memorable were a 63 Fairlane with 289/4 speed, 63 Galaxie with a 406/4 speed, a neat AMX. a very restored 70 Power Wagon, and a 93 850Ci with an indicated 39K miles - could have passed for 39 miles, it was spotless.

andre1969

ab348 said:

I never understood the rationale for stacking quad rectangular sealed beams. They would have allowed a lower hoodline if positioned side by side and would have made the car look sleeker. Stacking them just looked awkward.

Well, the 1970's was all about pretense and wanna-be luxury, not sleekness and aerodynamics.

At the time, Consumer Reports criticized the movement towards rectangular headlights, mainly because the auto makers were being a bit hypocritical. Apparently, part of the rationale for rectangular headlights was that they WOULD allow for a lower hoodline, and improved visibility. But then, they went ahead and stacked some of them, which had just the opposite effect!

Oh, as for the LTD-II, I didn't like its stacked treatment, because it seemed like the headlights were too far inboard, the exact opposite of the '76-77 Regal/Century sedan/wagon, where they seemed too far to the edge. I thought the '77-78 Monaco/Fury and '78-79 Cordoba struck a happy compromise in their placement...not too far inward, not too far outward. Pretty much like the '76-77 Malibu and Monte Carlo. However, I'm still not crazy about the Monte...its treatment overall just looks too pimpy.

fintail

Lemko brought up the Elite - there's something you don't see often. A friend of mine's family bought an Elite new in 76 (brown with a brown burlap interior, according to him) - by 1987 or so, the car had a lot of body rust, apparently the car wasn't designed for the damp salty air of the WA coast. My friend was very embarrassed by the car, but his dad liked it and wouldn't let it go until the body panels had large holes. They replaced it with a brown Celebrity wagon that was less than perfectly reliable - that car was replaced with a 90 Accord, and his mother hasn't had a car that wasn't a Toyota or Honda since. His dad remained loyal to Ford, but truck and van.

Those LTD II sedans make me think of Brian Dennehy's squad car in Rambo (I think the police fleet also had R-bodies). I also remember the LTD II from a bike crash I had when I was in grade school, maybe 1985 or so, I remember riding my BMX bike down a snowy icy street with a slight incline, I dumped it, and the bike went under the back of a parked LTD II. I don't think it did any damage.

The 77-79 T-Bird is very similar to an LTD II design wise, but I kind of like those.

uplanderguy

At the time, I used to goof on Elites. They were so obviously a Gran Torino, but IMHO only, 'pimped up' with those wide wheel opening moldings, wide side moldings, multiple opera windows, and multiple pieces of bright trim across the taillights. I thought they did the Monte Carlo poorly.

On the other hand, I liked, and like, the Cordoba. Pretty cleanly-styled. The parents of a kid in my class got a maroon one with maroon interior, '75 or '76, and the sticker was $6,200 I'm nearly sure so it was loaded. His younger brothers washed it with steel wool once. I guess the Dad went ballistic.

In my hometown, I thought dark brown was the only color Elites came in.

Re.: Monte Carlos--does anybody remember one way they cheaped out over the B-O-P versions (besides instrument panel)--the rear window had a big seam going down the center, while the others did not.

ab348

I assumed that Monte rear window was a styling thing, like the bent glass on '77-'79 Chevy Impala.Caprice coupes. GM was great back then at cheapening their cars up though, so who knows.

In the fall of '77 when the folks wanted to buy a new station wagon I remember we test-drove a leftover '77 LTD II wagon. It was bigger than they liked, but I thought it drove nicely enough and was attractive inside. But the toeboard area underneath/alongside the brake pedal oil-canned badly, I discovered - probably a defect in that one car, not all of them could have been like that I assume. We didn't buy it.

roadburner

I still like the 1977 Laguna S3- and I'm probably one of less than 100 who do...

stickguy

RB, I actually do too. One of the few larger domestics of the era that tickles my fancy.

I also like the Pontiac can am.

And even rarer, the nova based GTO.

Yes I have odd taste.

robr2

fintail said:

Lemko brought up the Elite - there's something you don't see often. A friend of mine's family bought an Elite new in 76 (brown with a brown burlap interior, according to him) - by 1987 or so, the car had a lot of body rust, apparently the car wasn't designed for the damp salty air of the WA coast. My friend was very embarrassed by the car, but his dad liked it and wouldn't let it go until the body panels had large holes.

Was there really any car built in the mid 70's that would go 11 years without major rust issues? Even the imports had problems dealing with road salt and coastal environments.

roadburner

I liked the Can Am as well. The GTNova is a rare bird, not as bad as it was portrayed. In size and performance it was essentially equivalent to the 1964 Goat.

stickguy

11 months in the rust belt for some. 11 days for a vega.

andre1969

When I was in 4th grade, my best friend's parents, who lived two doors down, had an Elite. And it was, yep, brown! Their other car was a VW Rabbit, in one of those economy car colors that wasn't quite orange, wasn't quite red.

Some other neighbors had a Gran Torino coupe. Forget the year, but it was one of the big bumper years. Even though the Elite was supposed to be the more prestigious of the two, I liked the Torino better! Part of it was the color. The Torino was a tasteful blue. But, the Torino just seemed more tasteful up front, too, with its quad headlights and more proportionally-sized, less pretentious grille.

Oh, I also liked the '77-79 T-bird a lot too. All things considered, Ford did a great job of taking the 1972 midsize platform and updating it to look more modern. I also thought the Cougar XR-7 was a good looking car. There's a '77-79 Cougar coupe I see locally on occasion, the base style that I had totally forgotten about. Basically, an LTD-II with a Cougar grille. Those must have been pretty rare, as I'm sure the vast majority of sales went to the XR-7, which was more like the T-bird.

On the obscure car front, I came across this 1973 Capri in the parking lot outside of PetSmart today...


I chatted with the driver a moment...which is how I knew it was a '73. She said that her husband had spent 5 years restoring it, and they just recently put it on the road. I would have tried to chat a bit more, but it was drizzling, and she was in the process of leaving, so I didn't want to hold her up.

stickguy

I love those. Wanted one bad in high school.

fintail

I don't recall our barge T-Bird or the Horizon having any rust, but I was pretty young. I seem to recall the S-10 Blazer having a little rust as it got older, and I remember the Tempo getting a little scale at the inside of the door tops where it meets the roof.

A 77-79 T-Bird with T-Tops in white or a silvery blue with a silvery blue or darker blue leather interior and turbine wheels would be a pretty stylish disco cruiser.

That Capri is a real rarity, I bet they could rust pretty well, too.

stickguy

Capris rusted easily.

Fin, you had to experience the rust/salt belt to believe how quickly and severely some cars could rust.

robr2

stickguy said:

Capris rusted easily.

Fin, you had to experience the rust/salt belt to believe how quickly and severely some cars could rust.

I agree. Here in New England in the 70's I vividly remember plenty of cars with surface rust, rust holes, et al. Pretty much if a car was more than 5 years old, there would be some sort of rust issue.

andre1969

I used to like those early Capris. I'm not sure how common they were, in general, but they seemed pretty popular around these parts for awhile. It had been ages since I'd seen one up close. One thing that really struck me about this one is how, in person, how tiny they really are. They have nice proportions, which I think makes them look bigger in pictures. But, in person, their small size is definitely noticeable.

As for rustbucket cars, the only one I can really remember rusting out in rapid fashion was my grandparents' '72 Impala. Granddad was bondo-ing the lower part of the front fenders by the time it was 6 years old, and when they sold it to some friends of the family in 1982, it was looking pretty bad.

Now, I'll confess to having some rustbuckets, myself...my old '67 Newport was pretty bad, and towards the end my '68 Dart was just about shot. And my '85 Silverado is looking pretty ratty. But, there's a big difference between a 30 year old rustbucket, and a 6-10 year old rustbucket!

fintail

More reason to be glad I am on the west coast, I guess ...cars just survive here, with a few exceptions.

ab348

stickguy said:

Capris rusted easily.

Fin, you had to experience the rust/salt belt to believe how quickly and severely some cars could rust.

Exactly. Like I mentioned before, our Maverick had actual holes in the sheet metal in under 18 months.

Those Capris looked nice, but were just awful cars to live with, aside from the rust. Everything broke on them.

andre1969

roadburner said:

I liked the Can Am as well. The GTNova is a rare bird, not as bad as it was portrayed. In size and performance it was essentially equivalent to the 1964 Goat.

I'll confess that I even have a bit of a soft spot for the 1974 GTO. For all the ridicule the car takes, I don't think it was all that bad, considering the era. I've seen 0-60 times quoted of 7.7 seconds, with the 200 hp 350 and a 4-speed. Incidentally, that's about what the original GTO, with a 389 and 4-speed, was good for. I'd guess the '64 might have had a better quarter mile and top end, though.

And, naturally, I'm going to like the Can Am, as I've had a thing for the '76-77 LeMans, in general, since I was a little kid. I'll see Can Ams every once in awhile at the GM show in Carlisle PA, and there used to be a local one I'd see on occasion. It's a shame they didn't make more of them, but from what I heard, the brass at Pontiac wasn't too fond of the car to begin with, because it wasn't all that profitable. It used the Grand Prix dashboard, and from what I heard, every Can Am that was built meant one less Grand Prix, which was a more profitable car. So, when the mold to make the rear spoiler broke, they used that as an excuse to stop making the car.

Although, I dunno how much truth there is to that. The Grand LeMans also used the Grand Prix dashboard, and I'm sure it was a less profitable car, as well. I've always wondered how much the Can Am package cost. I've never seen any official stats on that. But, considering the Can Am had to be farmed out to produce, it was probably viewed as an annoyance by some of Pontiac's top brass.

stickguy

At the risk of being totally ridiculed (well, wouldn't be the first time!) I thought the same thing about the Mustang II. Yeah, it was down on power, but in 1974, everything was.

But, it was a whole lot closer in spirit to the original than the bloated out 1973 'Stang.

A kid in my HS class had a 74ish GTO. Red. I liked it. By then the Lemans, etc. had gotten big. I think it had a 350 4 bbl? good for the times.

kyfdx

I always thought the Capri was cool.. Mercury sold about 500,000 of them in the US, between '71-'78. They were sold in Europe until the mid-'80s. I worked at the airport in the late '70s and one of the skycaps had a yellow one, with an outrageous body kit with bolt-on fenders, etc.. Made it look like a race-car replica.

My first new car was a '77 Mustang Cobra II. 302 V-8, 4-speed and no A/C. Really, really crappy car, that was very quick, compared to other cars of that time period.. By the time I put 48K miles on it, it was completely worn out.. Came with a 12 month, 12,000 mile factory warranty..

andre1969

Yeah, the '74 GTO was a slightly hopped up 350-4bbl, with 200 hp. For comparison, the milder 350-4bbl put out 175 hp, and the 2-bbl only had 150. And, '74 would prove to be the last year for the GTO. At least, until that Holden thing came out in the 2000's.

The '73 GTO was on the larger LeMans platform, so it would've been about the same size as my '76. Maybe a little shorter, as I think the rear bumper juts out a bit more starting in '74. It came standard with a 230 hp 400, and a 250 hp 455 was optional. A 310 hp HD455 was supposed to be an option, but never got past a couple of prototypes. The Grand Am was supposed to offer that engine, and I think the Grand Prix as well, but in the end, it only went into the Trans Am, and I think the final production version had around 285 hp.

I guess they decided to move the GTO down to the compact platform to clear more room for the Grand Am, which debuted in 1973. It probably made sense at the time, too, with the fuel crisis, which was killing interest in the few traditional musclecars that were left, but sparking demand in more compact offerings, such as the Duster/Dart Sport 360.

And yeah, while it's another object of ridicule today, I think the '74 Mustang II was a good idea at the time. I'd even consider it one of the first attempts at "retro" style, because it does seem to be heavily influenced by the '65.

stickguy

The Capri II (the late 70s hatch model which IMO looked vastly more modern) was turned into a race car like that. Must have been something to mimic that. something like the one below, but I know there is another car I am thinking of.



maybe this was your guy?

kyfdx

I tried searching for a picture to match my memory, but to no avail. Body kits were pretty rare in the '70s. This one looked like something he may have acquired from Germany or England.. Exposed bolt heads on the fenders and pretty radical..

Back then, skycaps made big, big bucks.. I worked at the airport parking lot and those guys would pay full price to park at the main terminal lot during their shift, which stunned me..

lemko

Check out this ad reposted from Facebook:

uplanderguy

I had this discussion before I left and came back, but I lived in a river valley with tons of snow and salt. All I did was study cars--no sports for me, or band or orchestra! LOL I never saw any car, even a Vega, rust out prior to two years. I think time has a way of making bad things worse ("they rusted out in six months!") and the good, better ("I had 300K miles on a Toyota with original brakes and spark plugs!")....LOL. Just my personal observation.

Nice LeSabre, lemko.

andre1969

On reading back through some of the posts, I guess I should add that yeah, I like the Laguna, as well. As I got older though, I did lose some respect for them. As a kid, I thought they were musclecars, but as I got older, realized that they came with some fairly tame engines, and you had to order the right engine to make it fast. Like the Grand Am, I guess, these cars stressed handling moreso than acceleration, although they did come with larger standard engines than the lesser Malibu and leMans models did.

FWIW, I was also a bit disappointed when I found out that not all Grand Ams were high-performance, too. I used to think they all used high-output 400's and 455's, so when I found out that the standard 400 only put out 175 hp (down to 170 for '75), it took out a bit of the allure for me.