I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

I can remember looking at the FWD DeVilles when they came out, when I lived in suburban Atlanta. I was pretty shocked....they were a HUGE decrease in size. Styling-wise, I liked the Olds and Buick better. Further, I did not like how some had a 'privacy' rear window where it was quite obvious that a filler panel was just thrown in there (might have been the Fleetwood). I did like the instrument panel in those Cadillacs though.

Not the FWD models, but I liked how they finally introduced a Fleetwood Brougham coupe in '80 I believe. While I wasn't a fan of the teeny little quarter window in the big padded top, I liked the idea of the magnificent Fleetwood interior in a coupe. There really hadn't been a version like that since the Fleetwood Seville of 1960.

andre1969

I think the 98 and Electra came off better looking because they didn't try as hard to ape the larger models, as the DeVille/Fleetwood did. If anything, to me they looked a lot like larger Centurys and Cutlass Cieras. Unfortunately, when the 4-door N-body Skylark/Calais/Grand Am came out for '86, they bore a strong resemblance to those, as well.

As for that "privacy" window, my grandmother's cousin's '89 Coupe DeVille has it, so at some point it may have become an option on those, as well. Or, hers might have been a replacement. One hot summer day a few years ago, the window shattered for seemingly no good reason, while sitting in her driveway, and she had it replaced. I guess it's possible it may have originally had the larger window, but a small with the filler surround was all they could find. I can't remember what it originally had. It doesn't have a vinyl roof, so that small window does look odd, with the filler panel surround.

Oh, yeah, to your earlier comment about the '74 Pontiac Luxury LeMans coupe and checking to see if they used a filler piece on the inside for the opera window, I'll try to keep on the lookout, but they're not exactly everyday occurrences, even at car shows. I think the only '73-77 I see on a regular basis at Hershey is a '75 Grand LeMans coupe (Luxury LeMans became the Garnd LeMans for '75-77, and that's when it got the Grand Prix dashboard) in a light brown/beige color. And I think the last time a LeMans that wasn't a GTO, Can Am, Grand Am, or Smokey and the Bandit replica showed up at Carlisle was 2008, the last year I put my '76 in!

uplanderguy

I forgot that the '74 was still called "Luxury LeMans" as opposed to Grand LeMans. While I'm not a fan of the pointy rear of the '73, I did like how the Luxury LeMans had the big triangular quarter window. The louvered window (LeMans Sport Coupe, Grand Am) looked nice, distinctive, but from the back seat you couldn't see out of them! The '73 GTO could be had with either the triangular window or louvered window (based I'm pretty sure on whether the GTO package was put on the base LeMans coupe or the LeMans Sport Coupe). I don't believe I've ever seen one with the big windows, although I'll have to google that.

andre1969

Here's a '73 GTO with the big, non-louvered windows...unless it's a replica?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/coconv/8010812592/in/photostream/

Here's a brochure for the '73 Sport Coupe: http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/pontiac/73le/73le.html It mentions that the louvered windows were standard, which is one thing I'd always wondered about. The way the manufacturers still nickeled and dimed you, I thought they were still an option, even on the Sport Coupe. The brochure also mentions that the GTO was an option for the Sport Coupe. However, I guess that doesn't automatically mean it was not an option for the base coupe.

uplanderguy

The brochure shows that the GTO option on the standard LeMans coupe got the big window. That's the one I'd have wanted.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/brochuredisplay.cgi?year=1973&manuf=GM&model=Pontiac&smod=&page=9&scan=9

fintail

Today saw a Saab 900 Turbo - non-flush lights + CHMSL probably mean 1986. And a 2 door RAV4 with 3 spoke wheels that screamed "1991!", while the rest of the car screamed "1996!".

fintail

Spotted a Chrysler Maserati TC in light yellow of course, a series II Jag XJ, and a MB C63 with a German annual registration sticker on the windshield - military related, I bet.

berri

I saw what I'm pretty sure was a white '68 Ford. What was unique about it, besides looking pristine, was that it was a pillared 2dr sedan, but it had a bunch of chrome including around the windows. I'm guessing it was a Galaxie, but couldn't get a close enough look.

uplanderguy

Most likely a Custom 500. There weren't two-door sedan Galaxie 500's from '64 on, if not maybe earlier.

fintail

Saw an early 80s Subaru sedan today,something like this:

stickguy

speaking of that Subaru, i was leafing through an old issue of C&D from 1980, and they had an article about the newly released Subaru sedan. They actually really liked it, though damn it was slow (14.5 0-60?) and averaged about 25 MPG. And somehow, people survived driving such a slow car! The Accord that was in the comparison chart was not much faster. Pretty sure they were both AT though.

Interesting though was they also tested the new Civic. that was IIRC in the 10 sec range, and maybe 32 MPG overall. Surprised to see how much faster it was (stick shift of course).

times have certainly changed since then.

stever

I saw an similar one in Boise about 8 or 10 years ago. It was pristine, driven by the proverbial little old lady. And it was FWD. Maybe it was an '89 Legacy, but I think the badge was different.

roadburner

stickguy said:

speaking of that Subaru, i was leafing through an old issue of C&D from 1980, and they had an article about the newly released Subaru sedan. They actually really liked it, though damn it was slow (14.5 0-60?) and averaged about 25 MPG. And somehow, people survived driving such a slow car! The Accord that was in the comparison chart was not much faster. Pretty sure they were both AT though.

Interesting though was they also tested the new Civic. that was IIRC in the 10 sec range, and maybe 32 MPG overall. Surprised to see how much faster it was (stick shift of course).

times have certainly changed since then.

I remember that car- I almost bought soon after that C/D came out. I was going to get a stick of course. Ended up waiting a year and buying a new Arrow GT 2.6, which at the time was the fastest car Chrysler sold(0-60 in a tick under 10 seconds).

fintail

In 1980, 0-60 in 14.5 wasn't *that* bad, I think. That was the height of malaise. I seem to recall my 81 Consumer Guide listing a Volvo diesel wagon closer to 30 seconds, and I bet a 240D automatic was into the mid 20s anyway.

I think the Legacy was introduced in the US for MY 1990. An 89 car would be a "Loyale", formerly the GL, known as the Leone in many other places. I suspect 2/3 of those early 80s models were sold in the PNW, and probably 90% of survivors are still here. When I was younger, I remember the older lady across the street had the hardtop coupe variant of that Subaru - she traded a 71 or so Chevelle for it, I think. And the wagons were everywhere at one time, especially in college towns in the 90s.

uplanderguy

I really only remember early '70's Subarus. Our Pontiac dealer took them on, in a small town. We didn't even have a VW dealer. What I remember my first impressions at the time were, was that it had shopping-cart-size wheels and tires, and a paper-thin piece of plastic from the dash ashtray broke or fell off when I was checking a new one out. Smelled funky inside too. He stopped selling them after a couple years. He also acquired the Ford dealer a few years later and is still in business--the only new-car dealer in the borough limits (although Chrysler-Jeep has a store in the outskirts). He had Pontiac right 'til the end.

andre1969

stickguy said:

speaking of that Subaru, i was leafing through an old issue of C&D from 1980, and they had an article about the newly released Subaru sedan. They actually really liked it, though damn it was slow (14.5 0-60?) and averaged about 25 MPG. And somehow, people survived driving such a slow car! The Accord that was in the comparison chart was not much faster. Pretty sure they were both AT though.

Interesting though was they also tested the new Civic. that was IIRC in the 10 sec range, and maybe 32 MPG overall. Surprised to see how much faster it was (stick shift of course).

times have certainly changed since then.

I can believe it. My old 1980 Malibu was probably good for 0-60 in about 15 seconds. A buddy of mine had an '80 Accord coupe, and we timed it with a stopwatch once. With three people on board, 0-60 came up in something like 26 seconds! It had an automatic and a/c, although the a/c wasn't working by then. I can't remember if the compressor belt was removed, or not.

For a couple other numbers of that era, I remember a 1980 New Yorker 5th Ave with a 318 and all of 120 hp doing 0-60 in about 14.1 seconds. And an '81 Grand Prix with the Pontiac 265 taking an agonizing 14.9.

If you got 0-60 in under 10 seconds in those days, that was considered impressive. No police car manufactured in 1980 could even break the 10 second barrier, although that's using Michigan State Police results. MT or C&D would have gotten better results. That year, the Impala, with a 350 was actually disqualified from testing, because it took too long to get from 0-100!

I remember when Mom gave me the Malibu when I got my driver's license. Among my crowd of friends, sadly, it was the musclecar of the bunch. But, I guess in a land of outhouses, indoor plumbing makes for a mansion!

uplanderguy

I posted this in the wrong forum yesterday--'Project cars...'

Spotted today, up-close-and-personal--the gold '77 Caprice Classic sedan I've seen from my upstairs office window before. It was getting gas on the other side of the pump from me today. Other than parking-lot dings, I truly haven't seen one in that condition in probably twenty or more years. Gold with original gold cloth interior that looks like a three-year-old car--and it's the original upholstery; I can tell. And amazingly...the top of the dash isn't cracked! Has the nice goldish cloth interior with fold-down center armrest in front.

The seventy-ish lady owner told me they bought it several years back with only 26K miles, and that she and her husband had had a '78 for fourteen years that they enjoyed. Sadly, today is a slushy, salty day out here. I wouldn't have driven it today.

uplanderguy

Re: Andre's '80 Malibu V6....

My parents bought a new '80 Monte Carlo V6. I thought it looked great--it was a dark metallic army green, not unlike a fairly recent Camry color I've seen. It had factory gold painted (not tape) pinstriping, Rally Wheels, the Exterior Decor Group which was a rocker molding and belt moldings. And all '80 Monte Carlos had the 70-series tires and stiffer suspension and rear stabilizer bar, standard. That said, I hated the noises that V6 made and that car was instrumental in me searching out a V8 (even if only the 267) when I bought my new '81 Monte Carlo, on this very date, Jan. 17, 1981. I have a nice photo of it; guess I have to get up-to-date and get a scanner. The '81 was factory two-tone light jade hood and roof over dark jade everything else. To this day, I think it was probably the prettiest new car I've owned. It had the full wheel covers; not wheels which I would have liked. But hey, they were metal covers, not plastic like in later years! LOL

Regarding 0-60 times--I remember Chevy bragging up their 2.8 MFI V6 in the '85 Celebrity brochure, doing 0-60 in 10 seconds, with the 3-speed automatic. I ordered a Eurosport two-door with that engine, but it was late in the year and I was forced to order a 4-speed automatic, which my friend's Chevy Service Manager-Dad had said to avoid, and at 37K I lost third and fourth gears. Even though the powertrain warranty was 24Kmiles/24 mos., I only had to pay a $100 deductible for a rebuilt trans at the dealer.

roadburner

andre1969 said:

stickguy said:

speaking of that Subaru, i was leafing through an old issue of C&D from 1980, and they had an article about the newly released Subaru sedan. They actually really liked it, though damn it was slow (14.5 0-60?) and averaged about 25 MPG. And somehow, people survived driving such a slow car! The Accord that was in the comparison chart was not much faster. Pretty sure they were both AT though.

Interesting though was they also tested the new Civic. that was IIRC in the 10 sec range, and maybe 32 MPG overall. Surprised to see how much faster it was (stick shift of course).

times have certainly changed since then.

I can believe it. My old 1980 Malibu was probably good for 0-60 in about 15 seconds. A buddy of mine had an '80 Accord coupe, and we timed it with a stopwatch once. With three people on board, 0-60 came up in something like 26 seconds! It had an automatic and a/c, although the a/c wasn't working by then. I can't remember if the compressor belt was removed, or not.

For a couple other numbers of that era, I remember a 1980 New Yorker 5th Ave with a 318 and all of 120 hp doing 0-60 in about 14.1 seconds. And an '81 Grand Prix with the Pontiac 265 taking an agonizing 14.9.

If you got 0-60 in under 10 seconds in those days, that was considered impressive. No police car manufactured in 1980 could even break the 10 second barrier, although that's using Michigan State Police results. MT or C&D would have gotten better results. That year, the Impala, with a 350 was actually disqualified from testing, because it took too long to get from 0-100!

I remember when Mom gave me the Malibu when I got my driver's license. Among my crowd of friends, sadly, it was the musclecar of the bunch. But, I guess in a land of outhouses, indoor plumbing makes for a mansion!

I'm sure I mentioned this before, but I bought(with the help of my dad) a new 1974 Monte Carlo Landau with the base 350 2V. I think Car and Driver timed its 0-60 time in the mid 12s.

I recurved the distributor and installed a Mallory Unilite pointless ignition(the idiot dealer had deleted the HEI on the order sheet to save a few bucks). I also added an Edelbrock two-plane manifold and Q-Jet, a Crane Hi-Torque cam, Blackjack 1 5/8" headers. a 2 1/2" dual exhaust with Cherry Bomb Q mufflers, a B&M Trans-Pak shift kit, a Hayden 15,000 lb. Gvw cooler, and a 3:42 rear gear set.

I also upgraded the lighting(Cibie "off road only" Z Beam 7" H4 halogens), and the audio system(Pioneer in-dash AM-FM w/Dolby Cassette, 6X9 20 oz. coaxials, and an AD-304 power amp with a whopping 15 wpc!).

I left the suspension alone since even Road & Track thought it handled pretty well.

It was very quick for its time(1974-1983 or so). It would chirp the tires on the 1-2 upshift at 35 mph and on the 2-3 upshift at 70 mph. Not bad for a 4200 lb. barge. I sold it in 1989 and it was still running strong...

uplanderguy

Roadburner, at the time I very-much liked those Montes, and they came with the suspension pieces that were optional on most of the other GM mid-sizes (except Grand Am and Cutlass Salon, most likely).

If yours was a Landau, it probably had those urethane "Turbine I" wheels. A friend of mine's folks bought a new light green metallic '74 Monte Carlo Landau, and it had the five-slot Rally Wheels. I immediately said something like "Hey! What's up with those?", and I remember him showing me the window sticker where it said those were a $68 credit option. I never saw another Landau with Rally Wheels.

What color was your Monte?

roadburner

It was probably the same color as your friends- here it is(along with the rest of my fleet) back in 1982:



I forgot to mention- it also wore a set of 15X7 Cragar S/S wheels. Those "Turbine" wheels were horrible;- heavy as all get-out and the trim rings and hub caps would not stay attached- they were constantly falling off.

uplanderguy

You know, in '74 there was a non-metallic, creamy light green that our '74 Impala had, but I liked that light green metallic better. Thanks for the photo. Weren't the hoods on those Montes just ridiculously long? But...that did look cool from the front seat.

My Dad's head brushed the headliner on Montes and that kept him from buying one of that era--ironically, he didn't have that problem with the downsized ones of a few years later.

ab348

This may have been referenced here some time back and I missed it, but THIS is an interesting article about the guy who was responsible for many of GM's best interiors back in the glory days of the 1960s and '70s. Interesting that it mentions the '73 GP interior, one of the best of that time, and how he suggested creating the LeMans Sport Coupe to fill a price gap. Also he was supposedly responsible for the 1965 "Evening Orchid" paint shade, one of the most unique ever. Worth a read and a browse through the photos.

roadburner

I remember that non metallic color too. As for the long hood, when you removed the fan, shroud, and the radiator a couple of people could stand in front of the engine...

uplanderguy

ab348, thanks so much for that link! A '65 Impala or Pontiac in Evening Orchid ("Iris Mist" at Pontiac) is a favorite of mine. And I can clearly remember seeing the '72 Ninety-Eight Regency brochure when new--I thought "Cadillac doesn't have an interior like that". It was, in my memory, the first "loose cushion" look in a car.

I've mentioned here recently how I think the '73 Grand Prix interior is just about perfect, too. Nice to find out more about the fellow responsible.

I've posted this here before, but I'm proud of this--Bill Mitchell, GM Styling VP after Harley Earl, was born in Cleveland but grew up in my little hometown of Greenville, PA. Thiel College there gave him an honorary degree in '79 or '80 and to his credit, he came back for it.

fintail

Cool pic. Those Arrows were still not an uncommon sight on the roads here until the early 90s, then all of a sudden they vanished. Still a Fairlady around here and there.

roadburner said:

It was probably the same color as your friends- here it is(along with the rest of my fleet) back in 1982:

roadburner

I liked my Arrow GT a lot; with the 2.6 it was really quick for the time, and a five speed manual with four wheel disc brakes were still a comparatively rare combination outside of Europe.

fintail

Those were the days when a 5-speed was special enough to often receive special badging.

Rewind to 1982, I was 5, that was about the time my parents had a gigantic T-Bird and Horizon. Funny thing, both of those cars were remembered fondly, my mother liked the Bird and my dad liked the Horizon.

explorerx4

I was amazed to find out less than 2,000 Countach's were made.
1/2 hour video, great beginning, you have to get through the warm up phase, how many of each type, although good stuff about their quirks, etc..., then the good stuff.

autoblog.com/2015/01/16/harry-metcalfe-lamborghini-countach-video/

Mr_Shiftright

The archetypal "bad boy" car of the 1980s! Mr. Lamborghini was apparently not fond of Mr. Ferrari and so every Ferrari owner sniffed at every Lamborghini---the trump card in the "my Ferrari is better than your Lamborghini" was the cruel and often decisive remark "Well, Lamborghinis were never RACED" ... checkmate. Ouch.

Any car that needs a factory-equipped periscope is okay in my book.

Who needs a radio with that lovely engine noise?



"Outrageous" in the same way as a '59 Cadillac.

explorerx4 said:

I was amazed to find out less than 2,000 Countach's were made.
1/2 hour video, great beginning, you have to get through the warm up phase, how many of each type, although good stuff about their quirks, etc..., then the good stuff.

autoblog.com/2015/01/16/harry-metcalfe-lamborghini-countach-video/

ab348

So I'm just wrapping up watching the only 4 hours of this year's B-J auction we will get up here in Canada this week. I always get irritated watching this but in the past it was largely due to the B-J people's own hype about various and sundry. Today I was equally irritated, but it wasn't because of Craig Jackson or the other B-J staff talking - the Discovery producers didn't give them any air time at all. What irritated me the most was all the injections of people from various Velocity shows - it was nothing but a promo-fest, along with regular reminders to call your cable company to get Velocity. The production seemed to be close to past years although the under-car chassis-cam seemed like it was a $200 GoPro since everything was choppy and blurry.

As for the cars themselves, nothing of particular note and the prices were absurd as always. I never cease to be amazed how some of the buyers got that kind of money. Many hardly look like captains of industry or hedge fund kingpins. One thing I noticed was that in past years they always boasted about how virtually none of the cars had a reserve price. This year it seemed almost all of the notable cars came in with a reserve. I wonder if B-J's business practices were put under scrutiny after last year, where I seem to recall some controversy.

All in all, the sense of wonder I once had in the first few years of watching this has long passed. It just annoys and depresses me now.

stickguy

yeah, the little bit I watched was notable for all the cameos. Guess Velocity is trying to get their money's worth.

Did not know that they do reserve pricing now. that was always their calling card.

robr2

stickguy said:

yeah, the little bit I watched was notable for all the cameos. Guess Velocity is trying to get their money's worth.

Exactly. Discovery paid Barrett Jackson for the rights to televise the auction and they want their money's worth.

kyfdx

fintail said:

Those were the days when a 5-speed was special enough to often receive special badging.

Rewind to 1982, I was 5, that was about the time my parents had a gigantic T-Bird and Horizon. Funny thing, both of those cars were remembered fondly, my mother liked the Bird and my dad liked the Horizon.

I had a 5-speed badge on my 1982 Accord..

fintail

Reminds me of the "Automatic" badging on 60s era MBs, something to brag about.

kyfdx said:

I had a 5-speed badge on my 1982 Accord..

roadburner

My '02 wears an "Automatic" badge(cue hoots of derision)...

stickguy

I think your retirement project should be a drivetrain transplant (restomod) on the 2002. Instead of endlessly searching for a lightweight, fast RWD car, make your own! swap in whatever BMW engine (to stay in the family, note I did not suggest a crate hemi).

some nice suspension upgrades, wheels/tires, and good to go. I am sure there are plenty of parts/kits available to support normal swaps. Maybe the 3.2l M3 motor and a 6 speed?

should be cheaper than a newer Challenger. And a whole lot more fun.

and if that really isn't fast enough, supercharge it.

texases

Oddball - a Jaguar X Type...wagon. Never saw one before, much less on the road.

roadburner

I saw one with a stick- that had to be a unicorn...

sda

uplanderguy said:

ab348, thanks so much for that link! A '65 Impala or Pontiac in Evening Orchid ("Iris Mist" at Pontiac) is a favorite of mine. And I can clearly remember seeing the '72 Ninety-Eight Regency brochure when new--I thought "Cadillac doesn't have an interior like that". It was, in my memory, the first "loose cushion" look in a car.

I've mentioned here recently how I think the '73 Grand Prix interior is just about perfect, too. Nice to find out more about the fellow responsible.

I've posted this here before, but I'm proud of this--Bill Mitchell, GM Styling VP after Harley Earl, was born in Cleveland but grew up in my little hometown of Greenville, PA. Thiel College there gave him an honorary degree in '79 or '80 and to his credit, he came back for it.

I remember the 72 Regency and was awed by it. We took our 72 Cutlass Supreme to have some warranty work and in the show room was a gold 98. Inside black tufted velour seats and a Tifanny clock. I was 13, and thought it was over the top. They had a 442 convertible next to it and that really had my interest. Does any one remember John Brown Olds in New Orleans?

stickguy

Holy Moley. Watching the tail end of Barrett jackson. A 1978 granada just sold for $25,000. A 2 door Ghia. Yeah, it was an original (I think unrestored) 30K unit with a 302 and 4 speed (so I guess if you want one, better get this one since there are probably no others in the world!).

a V8 4 speed Granada must have been a Unicorn back then too.

There are some really nice cars on this show. Quite a few that i would love to have. All of which are vastly too expensive for me to ever consider. I missed the boat when a few years back you could get a nice clean 1972ish Z-28 for about 12K!

andre1969

Wow, looks like I'm not the only car hoarder in my zipcode. Check out this Google street view of a place that's walking distance from my house...

uplanderguy

With that Imperial or New Yorker, you haven't met him yet?

kyfdx

Nice! Is that a Sunbeam back there?

fintail

Looks like a 57 T-Bird. Andre has a long-lost relative.

stickguy

Definitely a t bird.

I have a guy like that just outside my neighborhood. None of his stuff looks to be npin good condition thiugh

imidazol97

An Eldorado and a Cadillac?

What's under the canvas behind the '57 Bird?

stickguy

Driving around by walmart. An original (as in, old and tired) beetle. Early 60s I guess. Tiny tail lights.

ab348

That house looks fairly recent, and nice. Neither appears true for the cars.

andre1969

here's a few more pics...



The house is on a dead end street, and he has those three Eldorados stashed at the end of the street, where a little side stub was paved, ostensibly to make it so that cars could turn around. The road went all the way through at one time, but then a 4-lane state road was put through in the 1980's, and it cut this road in half, making each side dead-end just before the state road. Here's an overhead shot from Bing maps...



I'm surprised the county hasn't gotten on him about this. Back in 2010, they got on me for having my '79 New Yorker in the yard, with no front tag on it. It was about 100 feet off the road, by the garage, but backed in, so the inspector couldn't tell there was no rear tag on it. The car came from PA, which doesn't require front tags, so there was no place to bolt a tag, without getting a bracket. After about 11 years, I finally got busted by the cops for driving my 5th Ave with no front tag, so I just gave up and used a spike to punch a hole in the front tags, and ran a big bolt through it and through a slot in the bumper...it doesn't look *too* ghetto!

But with this guy, it does look like some of those cars don't have tags on the front. Oh, and this house is in a neighborhood that backs to a golf course...some pretty nice houses around here. I'm surprised the neighbors put up with it! In my case, I planted a row of Leyland cypresses along the edge of the one really nice house that borders my property...that way they don't have to look at my lawn ornaments!