I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

Those "falling forward" headlights were an unfortunate design feature of a number of cars in the 50s, both American and European. GM had the styling chops in the 50s IMO.

stormdavy

'59 two-tone pink, driver. Protruding stacked tubes of taillights sheathed in chrome.
Christine-like brows over headlights. Took a drive a couple of counties out of my area yesterday and also saw a white '66-7 Riviera, '57 Studebaker Golden Hawk, '74 Camaro type LT, two amazing Caddies: '59 and '61, all drivers. Some roadside cuties were a '65 Dodge A100 Van, '70 Subaru model 360, 2 late 50's Rambler XCountrys, green '69 Malibu, an early white Barracuda and a gold Gremlin.
BTW have to say on that Adenauer: MB got it right with that beautifully sculpted front fender bulge.

lemko

...bought a new black 1953 Plymouth Cambridge, (the low-line model) way, way back. Do you have any pictures of that car, Andre?

fintail

Wow, that's an awesome rash of sightgings

I'm liking Adenauers more and more...I think I might want one now. They are very cool and beautiful and seem much easier to come by than that 300SE LWB fintail I want.

I'd love to have that hearse and make it into an awesome wagon, or have a hardtop in period colors or an earlier large sunroof car.

andre1969

Plymouth was really the only Mopar that had that forward thrust to the headlights, which I like...gives the cars an agressive stance. The Dodge just had chrome rings around the headlights, while the DeSoto and Chrysler had just a bit of a bug-eyed look.

In '56 though, the pricier Chryslers and DeSotos ditched the chrome headlight surrounds for body-colored ones that had a slight peak at the top, giving them a bit of a thrust. I think a '56 DeSoto almost looks like a mammoth-sized T-bird...



For comparison, here's a cheaper model, sporting more of a bug-eyed look...

seminole_kev

Now I like that top one minus the worlds worst looking rims I've ever seen, but I don't like the bottom one.

Both would still look a little better without those giant bumper overrides or whatever those are above the bumper.

andre1969

yeah, the Adventurer hubcaps are a bit much, aren't they? Those bumper thingies you're talking about are a holdover from 1955, but the whole grille was "toothy" that year, so they integrated in a bit better...



They might have even been a holdover from 1954 or earlier as well, as some of the DeSotos might have had chrome bumper guards as an option, like this...


And I can tell ya from experience, that those bumper guards actually work! A friend of mine had a '55 DeSoto with the guards on the back. I rear-ended him with my '57, launching him about 30 feet. All I did was give him a matching set of dings in the guards to go with the ones he already had! And no damage, whasover, to mine. Let's not talk about the aches and pains that he, as well as a friend who was riding with me had for a couple days afterward! =8-0

fintail

Hey Andre, what do you think of the Dodge LaFemme? My mom has wanted one of those ever since I showed her one in a copy of "Collectible Automobile" when I was about 11.

andre1969

but I think they're cool! I forgot too, that Dodge started using the same hooded headlights in '56, similar to the nicer DeSotos and Chryslers. I could deal with the 2-tone lilac-over-white paint job, because 50's cars can pull off some of the most effeminate color schemes and still look cool. But I dunno if I could drive around in something that says "Le Femme" on the side! But then, it's soooo sexist it's kinda cool today, too ;-)

It's also kinda interesting Chrysler/Imperial and Dodge played around with split grilles a few years before they became synonymous with Pontiac.

stormdavy

Just drove by a garage sale where the '56 DeSoto Firedome Seville (mentioned by me before) was sitting pretty out on the lawn, nfs. It has a nice, purring Hemi, and 46,000 mi. Been repainted once. Original color is a kind of rose grey; the new color an ash grey metallic. Roof is white. Great uncluttered styling. Taillamps are stacked red, white, red tubes coming out of a gridded metal panel, cowl above it. No plastic cover, like today's Altima, et al. Fantasy car.

Mr_Shiftright

Nope, Andre you forgot about the '55-56 Packard with those forward headlights and...if I remember right ...mid 50s Lincolns.

fintail

My mom likes that LaFemme for the 50s kitsch...the compact, umbrella, purse, and other female focused accessories that it came with. Very amusing idea that would probably result in protests in this society nowadays.

Just sitting at my desk today I saw a nice Chevy II sedan in baby blue, and a c.1981 Prelude convertible, looked to be a period conversion

fintail

This morning I saw an immaculate Peugeot 504 with a big sunroof, a nice looking c.63 Dodge full size sedan, and of all things, a 1920s firetruck of unknown make...a small one.

andre1969

I saw a '62 Impala hardtop coupe, in kind of a brownish-silver/champagne (best way I can think of to describe it) color, with a white roof. Looked pretty nice, but looking at it at an angle, the sheetmetal was pretty wavy. But then again, sometimes they came off the assembly line like that. And sadly, sometimes they still do!

Also spotted a Peugeot 505 wagon, in kind of a medium metallic blue. Nice looking, wasn't blowing smoke or anything. Also saw a first-gen Corvair wagon, in kind of a bathroom/seafoam green. Looked to be in good shape, but the driver had a really, REALLY pissed off look on his face. Made me think that maybe, just maybe, these things are a torture to drive? ;-)

I also saw something that I couldn't identify. It was tiny, as in, almost too small looking to be legal. What do those little SMART cars look like? Are they here in the states yet? This thing was modern-looking, but tiny and upright, and had triple-stacked taillights.

fintail

Sounds like a Smart, yes. I don't think they are being officially sold, but I know people have brought them over.

fintail

Oddball time again:

I know I am probably insane for liking this, but it seems pretty cool...Innocenti Mini De Tomaso Turbo. Neat neat neat.

Now here you go, Shifty

Should only cost maybe 5 or 10 times what this is worth to get it nice again

The last Packard (well, not a real Packard) and a Hawk, no less.

Nice Pug 504 wagon

Attractive DeSoto

The "Mariner", a weird idea from AMC

Extremely cool Chrysler hardtop wagon. Lots of appeal, and well worth the bid at the time I am posting this

"Buy it now" is high on this Andre-mobile, but I've yet to see a nicer one

Someone on a MB list I read bought this car. Pretty classy for the price of an Elantra

Mr_Shiftright

RE: Goggomobile -- oh, very nice little car! The ultimate babe magnet for Shiftright's golden years! I know Mark Hyman, top notch dealer. He'll even give you a refund if you don't like the car!

RE: Packard Hawk -- I really have a grudge against these---they are NOT Packards, 100% tired old Studebaker, and about as unattractive a car as ever appeared on God's earth. I guess that's what they sell for, but it sure beats me!

RE: Mercedes 280SE Coupe -- looks pretty nice, but what's with this "super original" business? The car has been repainted, seats repaired and transmission replaced. Original means....original! Fully priced, maybe over-priced, but the market will catch up to it (slowly). The V8 is the one you want. Mercedes coupes are not hot collectibles for some reason, and do very poorly at auctions.

RE: 1974 Rolls--I'm afraid not even ten times the bid will fix that one up. Parts car definitely. Money pit. DEATH. Run away! Run away!

RE: Peugeot 504 Wagon --- this write-up is kind of interesting. It starts out like...zowie...and you'll all worked up and then as you read the seller seems to start a slow painful confessional. Rather amusing to read. Bid is plenty at $1,200. I also liked the "easy to maintain" part. Sure, just go to your neighborhood Peugeot dealer! Or maybe Kragen will have your alternator---NOT! Still for $1,200, how wrong can you go? I know a guy who LOVES these cars, and suffers accordingly....and LOVES suffering, so it's perfect for him.

RE: Chrysler Wagon--bid is fair at about $3,000, after that you are in the hole on it I think, since you have money yet to spend. If I were the buyer, I'd sell those silly wheels and apply the proceeds to a new headliner, wet sanding and trim pieces. Hope nobody from California buys it since premium gas just hit $2.55 a gallon in my town.

Hmmm...wonder if Mark would trade a BMW 735i for a goggomobile?

andre1969

if it's stock, would only have a 361-2bbl V-8 with 265 hp. Around that timeframe, the automakers were actually going through a period of downsizing and de-tuning of engines, in a reaction to the recession in the late 50's that devasted the mid-priced car market. It wasn't nearly as extreme as what would go on in the 70's with downsizing and emasculating of engines, but it was noticeable. And sure, there were still enough hot engines in the early 60's, but a lot of once-hot engines became milder.

For instance, the 361 came out in 1958, with a 2-bbl (295 hp) 4-bbl (305 hp) dual-quad (350 hp) or fuel injection (355 hp, and recalled almost immediately!) In '59-60, I believe only the 2-bbl version was continued, still with 295 hp, but for '61 it was downgraded to 265 hp in cars like the DeSoto and Chrysler Newport. I think the 4-bbls and Cross-Rams and other fun stuff were reserved mainly for 383's and 413's.

But anyway, I'd imagine that detuned 361 would have no trouble running on 87 octane. I've put 87 in my '57 DeSoto and '67 Catalina, both higher-power cars, with no trouble at all (I was especially surprised on the Catalina!) My DeSoto would get around 13-14 around town and maybe 16 on the highway (never took a really long trip though), so I'd imagine that Newport would do about the same, if not better. Better, at least, than some SUV's nowadays!!

andre1969

just because it IS so out there! Overall the body, which is just a Studebaker Hawk, is still a looker, and IMO was a looker through its demise in '63 or '64, but it's just that front-end that's so wild looking!

The Stude version is much more attractive, though. The Packards and Studes I can't stand are the '58 models, with their tacked-on quad headlight assemblies. If they just left them single, or integrated them better, I think the cars would have looked fine. But as-is, I think this almost looks like a spoof of a '58 DeSoto...

jlawrence01

Nice work as usual -

Gogomobile - I have a friend with a couple of them. He collects minicars (mostly 3-wheelers) and has restored two of them.

Innocenti - They were sold in Canada around 1978-82 when they were imported by two Montreal dealerships. Only drived 41k indicates to me that the owner probably couldn't get parts.

Rolls Royce - why buy a vehicle like that and park it outside for 6-8 years ... unless it is not worth garaging.

Mr_Shiftright

Sorry andre, but I just feel the '58 packard is one of the most hideous cars ever built in American automotive history. You really have to look at one in real life to see what a mess it is top to bottom.

Studebaker knew how to make a nice looking car. The '62 Hawks were quite attractive and used mostly off the shelf body parts from older cars.

andre1969

oh I'm not disagreeing that they're hideous, but to me it's one of those cars that, despite its hideousness, somehow I still think they're cool. Now something like a '58 Edsel or '58 Oldsmobile or '58 Lincoln, those are just plain ugly! But I kinda put the '58 Stude and Packard about on the same level with a '58 Rambler...so ugly they're kinda cute! ;-)

The '58 hardtop Stude and Packard actually have a nice, Chrysler-esque roofline.

fintail

58 Packard wagon would be kinda cool

Today there was a car show in the area, and I took a few pics of cars that interested me. I took many fewer pics than I had planned, as turnout at the show was low, because it rained hard last night and through the morning. I was also somehow unimpressed by the hot rods, most Corvettes and Mustangs, and most of the cars...it all seemed too common, somehow. Maybe I was just in a bad mood. Anyway, here's are some cars that interested me when I was there.

Beautiful brassy 1906 Winton

Packard Twin Six (I think)

Springfield Rolls

Impressive Packard phaeton

Classic Packard roadster...and it got wet!

Pretty 30K mile all-original '61 Buick

Nicest Citroen wagon I've seen

Shelby GT 350

Assembly-line fresh Datsun 510

By far the nicest 510 engine I've seen

Mr_Shiftright

I like 510s a lot. One of the few Japanese cars I do like. I wouldn't mind having one as a run-around town car. I guess people still race 'em in SCCA.

fintail

I had one once, that was actually given to me for nothing, but it was a orange (as most were it seems) and black vinyl top wagon with serious braking and breathing issues that I was unable to cure. They are quite a legendery car, and for one to be at a show filled with much more classic iron, it would have to be special. This one was...the best I've ever seen. It was like brand new in every respect.

andys120

on the flank? Perhaps they were sold under that name in Canada.

I'm like Andre in that I think some cars are so ugly they're cool (e.g. Citroen 2CV) but I don't think the Packard Hawk is one of them. It's just plain ugly and a really poor exit for a storied name.

Mr_Shiftright

There does seem to be a fine line sometimes between "ugly cool" (59 Imperial for instance, or '58 Olds or Buick) and just plain ugly, like that Packard. Maybe it has to do with the different parts of the car not making any sense in relation to each other.

At least the '58 GM cars have a kind of "coherence" of their respective pieces--the grille kind of mirrors the tail lights which sort of resembles the dashboard instruments and trim, etc., etc. But the '58 Packard is just a mess, a hodge-podge of unrelated parts. It looks like the work of a kid who might have sawed 4 different models cars into quarters and then glued them together.

Well at any rate, here's an example of a car being "rare" for all the wrong reasons. I personally would find no pride in ownership in displaying a car that was so freakish at birth that nobody wanted it.

andre1969

but here's a website that shows pics of just about every Studebaker and Packard model offered in 1958... http://home8.swipnet.se/~w-85663/project/1958_2.htm

I actually kinda like the basic, single-headlight Stude models. And the Starlight hardtop coupe has a nice roofline.

And if nothing else, the "Outer Limits" owes many of the designs of its monsters to that face grafted onto the '58 Packard Hawk!! ;-)

Mr_Shiftright

You wanna talk "obscure"? How about that Scotsman 2-door Panel Delivery? Gee, it would make a great resto rod. Stroker V-8, 4-speed automatic, Camaro front suspension and brakes, vintage a/c, custom 17" wheels (well, maybe 16") CD/Mp3, roll n tuck, power steering and brakes.

The Scotsman was aptly named. This car re-defined a "stripped-down", optionless automobile. I don't think it even had passenger side sun visor or arm rest. You could feel very poor in a car like that, especially when you consider what everybody else was driving on cheap credit.

Nowadays of course a name like "Scotsman" is politically incorrect I guess.

ghulet

Those Studes look like they took parts off a large number of other cars (bit-0 '57 Cad in the headlights, wagon has Ford greenhouse, a bit of '56 Chevy in the Scottsman rear fender) and got, viola!........a mess. The last Studebakers I like were from the late '40s-early '50s with the semi-circular rear windscreen.

Oh, how I love Datsun 510s, mosly cuz my parents had one. I don't remember it being a particularly reliable car, though, but that may not have been due to the car (my parents were like 22 at the time), but I guess it was fun to drive. I think I'd probably look for a four-door at this point, probably cheaper and far less likely to have been modified (I see quite a few with Z engines and many other mods, not that they're necessarily a bad thing).

fintail

Nope, doesn't say Bluebird on that 510, it just says "Datsun".

Today I made the first "discovery" of a weird old car that I have done for some time. In a quiet alley not far off a main street lurks this old MB microbus. I've never seen anything like this before, and I can't believe I never spotted this thing. It's just slightly larger than a VW microbus, and it is very VW in styling, with windows on the roof and wrapping around the back. It certainly dates from the early-mid 60s. It's so cool, and it really should be saved. It's not very rusty at all, but cosmetically it needs everything, and I am sure it is similar mechanically. Anyway, here it is...I was happy to "find" it.

Drivers side

Front

Passenger side

And then just a few blocks away, I spotted this odd trio just parked on the grass. There's a late Citroen DS/ID wagon, a GTO convert, and a VW 412 in the background. What an odd group.

The GTO looks like a worthy project. Not a mint car by any means.

stickguy

I can't believe a company the size of Stude could have so many models. And look at the production numbers, at least 12 of them didn't even reach 200 units.

kyfdx

Saw one today in a mall parking lot... I used to know a guy that bought one new.. He told me he had an original Elan when he was in college in the late '60s and just had to have the new one.. You used to see them occasionally, but I think this is the first one I've seen out on the road in about 8 years.. It was red, and looked really good.. But, front wheel drive in a roadster?? What was Lotus thinking?

regards,
kyfdx

andys120

with the fwd, Isuzu-powered '91 Elan M-100. Your friend must have been disappointed if he expected it to compare to a '60s Elan which was the best handling sports car of it's day.

The M-l00 probably was a pretty good car, but as the saying goes it was no Elan.

kyfdx

Yeah.. He put it in a ditch near his house not too long after he got it.. $12K in damage.. But, he married a trust fund baby, so he wasn't losing any sleep over it. It is a really nice looking car, though. I think they only made 3000 of them?

regards,
kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright

The 1991 "Elan" (introduced in 1989) was a pretty competent car in spite of FWD; however, it is difficult for Lotus fans to lift the hood and read "Isuzu" on the engine cover without wincing. They made 3,855 of them. If your friend's car was in really nice shape, he probably didn't total it at $12K in damage, but if it was just a tad shabby, that's about what they are worth. Not an investment grade collectible but a fun little car.
Certain to depreciate further.

R: Benz Microbus -- that IS a rare sight here in the States, but of course Benz made/makes all kinds of commercial vehicles in large numbers, even garbage trucks. I'd guess there was a diesel engine in that little bus and that it probably was used for airport or hotel duty. Not worth restoring on a dollar basis but would be a neat courtesy vehicle for a dealership and could be written off as a business expense. Hope they do save it and that it hasn't fallen into the clutches of a "someday" person, who will let it deteriorate into a pile of rust under the contention of "oh, no, I would never sell it. I plan to restore it".

How many colors IS that Citroen anyway?

kyfdx

The "ditch thing" was right after he got it, brand new... Just some undercarriage stuff. I never got to drive it, but he said you could barely tell it was front wheel drive from the way it cornered. I guess something should have clued him in though!! LOL.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I bet I can tell you exactly the course that car took into the ditch, too--bass ackwards, right shoulder on a hard leftie.

jrosasmc

Those FWD Elans don't even come close to an Alfa Spider or Mazda Miata in terms of handling and cornering.

andys120

They may have been fwd with Isuzu motors but they were still Loti. Their handling was probably decent perhaps better than the average Miata roadster or Alfa Spider, staying with an original Elan is beyond 99% of the cars made then or now.

fintail

If I had money to burn and space to burn it in, I think I'd want to fix up that little bus. It's a cool little thing, and would make a good parts or people hauler for a shop. I do hope it'd be sold to an interested party. I am going to pass it along to the old MB specialist here, he might pursue it.

In the same backyard there also sat a 48-49 Caddy that had been converted to a motorhome, probably in the late 60s-eatly 70s. It was a normal car from the front doors forward. It had a high roofline, so I think it started out as a hearse.

Over the weekend I also got my first ride in a Corvair, the car being a 1964 Spyder, pale green, white top (down)...an unrestored original car with very good mechanicals, and needing cosmetic TLC. I was actually surprised about how fun it was. Very VW-ish, in a good way.

andys120

Yeah, if a VW (Beetle) had power. <?;^)

andys120

even tho the sun was out only for the afternoon the old iron showed up in my town today, notably:

BMW Bavaria-the early 70s precursor to both 5 and 7 series. This one was dark blue and fairly nice,
fitted w oversize wheels (17"?) but not perfect.

'66 Mustang 289, with a nice Ivy Green body, black top and black "Pony" interior, very nice except a top that was less than perfect.

'70 Mustang notchback, this one was white in unexceptional Daily driver condition.

'74 MG Midget, mustard yellow, apparently missing a top which was temporarily replaced by a clear vinyl sheet.

'65-66 Thunderbird 'vert, also in white with unexceptional bodywork and chrome.

These last four were seen at the local "we fix anything" auto garage.

jrosasmc

I saw, for the very first time, a Lotus Europa, and it was stopped on the side of the road. I myself pulled over and offered to give the owner a hand because it had died...it was running soon afterwards. He told me it was a '74.

Somebody tell me more about these Europas- I didn't realize the engine was in the middle of the car until the guy pointed that out to me. Also, the interior is ridiculously small inside, much worse than a Civic or Corolla. And the twin-cam engine isn't exactly a paragon of smoothness or refinement...that puppy was noisy!

andys120

Here's the poop on the Europa...

http://www.pistonheads.com/lotus/europa/

It was an odd little duck, borderline ugly and underpowered in stock form but it quickly became a favorite of diehard motorheads in the 70s. After all the only thing that could out handle a Lotus would be a mid-engined Lotus.

jrosasmc

So these little devils (Europas) have the ability to smoke even Porsches and BMWs on the track?!?

Mr_Shiftright

Well unless you are an experienced driver, especially on wet roads, you won't be passing Hondas much less Porsches or BMWs as much as you will be shaking hands with a tree. VERY tricky car to drive.

Even in its best form with the strongest of its engine options, the car can only do about 7.7 seconds 0-60 and a top speed of maybe 125 mph or so. No Porsche-beater there, unless maybe it's a 1960 Porsche 356.

Lots of anguish those cars. Also you can't have big feet---size 9 TOPS.

Funny story connected with Europas. In order to get the transaxle they wanted, Lotus had to take the Renault 16 engines; however Renault sold them leftover boat engines. So if you have the early Europa, not only do you have to fish for Renault engine parts, but Renault BOAT engine parts. Lotsa luck. This is why those engines are usually discarded and later Lotus twin cams or Climax engines are installed.

fintail

Nice Pontiac Safari

Kaiser Darrin is pretty weird

I wonder how many of these are still roadworthy

I wonder what kind of crack this guy is smoking

This is a neat little thing

I've never heard of this make

Cool DeSoto wagon

Gorgeous Citroen DS, but it'll cost ya

Nice Andre-mobile, decent price

This would be cooler if it was more correct/stock. These are very rare.

Mr_Shiftright

Daihatsu: Well I read the auction twice, and unless there is a suitcase of $100 bills in the trunk, I'd guess a 1991 Daihatsu is worth about $700. Given that his opening bid is $6,000, there are two possibilities:

1. Yes, he is in an "altered state"

2. He typed in one extra zero by mistake.
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Fiat "Neckar Europa" --- looks like a plain ol' Fiat 1100 to me. Possibly worth a little more than current bid, maybe $1,500?

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Fiat Wagon 500 -- Hmmm...still hasn't hit his reserve? Well there may be a little room left there. Hard to believe the "no rust" claim though. I've never seen one without rust somewhere, usually "gooped up" real nice by those clever Italians.

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1960 Ford Wagon -- his "buy it now" price seems very unrealistic for what he has there. Bid at $3,600 now and that's getting pretty close to retail for a car with rust. Don't think a background street car in a movie adds value unless star drives it a lot.
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Kaiser Darrin: Doesn't it make you wonder when the owner calls his convertible a "coupe" in the ad? Hello? Actually these weird cars bring a pretty good price but they have to be "right" as parts can be a bear (as in "make me").

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Citroen: SOLD at $10,000. Not bad, maybe paid a bit too much but looks like the car has had a boatload of work done to it.

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jrosasmc

I was at a car show in the Burlington, VT area yesterday, so I thought I'd share my comments about it and the cars I saw:

'67 Austin-Healey 3000 Mk III: This car was fully restored to showroom condition; it was bright yellow with black interior (don't know if yellow was even offered back in '67). It was purchased new by the orignal owner and he told me it had been all over the place, even on ski trips during winters in Vermont. Why anyone would want to drive an old Healey in the winter is beyond me.

More to come...