I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

I was walking along a trail near my home that used to be a railroad right-of-way (the WB&A, for any of you rail buffs). Well, I had been down it millions of times as a kid, but never to the west end of it. Yesterday though, I spotted what looked like a '55 or '56 Ford Crown Vic coupe down the embankment, along the edge of a swamp! I'm sure it had been down there for decades. Interstingly, some of the trim still looked like it was in good shape, including the part of the basket-handle that went up over the roof.

Aren't those old Crown Victorias actually worth something nowadays? I never really liked them, because I prefer a true hardtop. I wonder if it would be worth it for me to go down there and try to pull that trim off, and sell it on eBay or something?

Similarly, there's a '58 Plymouth 4-door hardtop about a mile or so from my house, along the Amtrak line. Probably been there for decades too, judging from the way the trees grew up around it. Normally, the glass is the first thing that gets broken out of these abandoned cars, but on this one, all the windows were rolled down, so I think they were spared that fate. I wonder if there's any demand for '58 Plymouth 4-door hardtop window glass? It also had a few good looking pieces of trim left on it, as well.

Mr_Shiftright

The Crown Vict. coupe is actually worth more than the Victoria 2-dr "real" hardtop. So yeah, you go get that trim, definitely.

I would bother with the Plymouth unless you could verify that the trim pieces or glass are identical to those of a two-door hardtop or a convertible, and that they are in good condition. Even then I'd expend my energy on the Crown Vict. first.

Austin Healey Mk III: My color chart does not show a yellow for 1967. It does show "primose yellow" for older cars but not the BJ series.

jrosasmc

Ok here is the promised update on the cars:

I saw, for the first time ever, a Ferrari 400i coupe. It was in great condition (it was an '82) and you probably recall that they were the "touring" Ferrari, as most were sold with automatics. However, this one had a 5-speed, and when I took a look inside, the speedometer was in miles per hour. It's kind of strange as I do not recall 400i's ever being federalized for American use, but this one looked like it was. It only had 39k miles on it.

Also saw a 1978 Saab 99 EMS hatchback at that same show. Now this one sparked the most curiosity out of me, as I considered it to be an anomaly. You just don't see very many 99s in original, unmolested condition anymore. The car only had 53k original miles on it, the body and interior were in spectacular condition, and the owner told me that he had bought it new. He also noted that it has not had any mechanical work done to it. If I remember correctly, the 99s had a reputation for blowing head gaskets and transmissions.

1979 Honda Prelude: This tired-looking car appeared to be one of the only surviving examples of the first-generation Honda sport coupes. The body was bad, but the mechanicals looked good considering it had 233k miles on it. It had a really bizarre, funky-looking instrument panel, as most Japanese cars of that era did.

1975 VW Bus: Like the Saab 99 I saw, this Bus was in really spectacular condition and has only one owner since new. It was two-tone (red and white) and had only 45k miles. Amazingly, the motor was the original 1.8-liter unit.

andys120

a white HT w black stripes, for sale. I've seen this one several times but couldn't get a look at the flanks to see the RR badge. This time it was parked at a different angle and there was ole BEEP! BEEP!

Car looks in decent (#3+) shape.

fintail

Sounds like an interesting Saab. Was it in less than tasteful period colors?

My dad's first new car was a 56 Crown Vic, a strange choice as he was 19 at the time. The glasstop models are especially cool.

There's a 1st gen Prelude convertible that's popped up in my area, some weirdo aftermarket job of course.

stickguy

the EMS was an interesting car for the time. Autoweek featured it in the "classics" section a few weeks ago. SOrt of an early ancestor of the WRX?

Actually, supposed to have been a 2002 rival.

http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autowe- ek&cat_code=thecar&content_code=00552461&Search_Type=- STD&Search_ID=2183795&record=1

Mr_Shiftright

Not even in their dreams, as it turned out. 2002s were sturdier and much better built.

Rather troublesome car the EMS, and today near worthless. Most price guides won't even include the car as an entry, which should tell you something, especially when they do include the Nash Metro and the Chevette...ouch!

I'll take issue with Autoweek on this one---I think the Saab 900 of 1980 was a far more significant car. Of course, one could argue that EMS genes are in the 900, and I'll certainly concede that.

lemko

...a two-tone green 1955 Chrysler New Yorker Deluxe four-door sedan in a neighborhood driveway. The car appeared to be in pretty decent condition.

jrosasmc

I saw another mint Swede parked next to me at a local pizza place last night. It was a 1978 Volvo 244 sedan, beige, automatic, 65k original miles. I got to have a brief chat with the owner, yes, he bought it brand-new and this car spends most of its time in a de-humidified garage, according to him. The interior and body are spotless and it was evident that this Volvo is pampered.

Still, in the immaculate condition it was, that old Volvo looked kind of crude to me.

kyfdx

Yeah.. and it still looked crude 15 years later, when they were still making it...LOL.

andys120

Is that obscure enough? This one was seen at the local better quality used car/special interest car lot.

IIRC the LaSalle was one of Harley Earl's earliest and best efforts. This four door sedan had a sleek look even though it's taller than any modern car. It was a light metallic green with a hint of olive in it. The write-up in the side window said it's been repainted and the very nice looking interior was claimed to be original.

It also said that LaSalles are recognized classics. I wonder if Shifty knows if it's on the AACA List, if so it's remarkably inexpensive for a pre-war Classic at $15,500.

Condition was good with good paint gloss, new white walls and a current inspection sticker but the chrome was pitted and showing it's age.

If I was wealthy, I'd pick it up, put in a modern drivetrain and have a chauffeur drive me around in it, it looks far roomier and more comfortable than any of those stretch things.

stickguy

I pass by this one occasionally. It looks to be about a '69-'70, full size 2 door. It is a big big car, not sure if it would be a Montego in those days? SOrta looks like a 2-door version of the Steve McGarret black beauty.

This one looks restored (externally), and is painted an odd electric blue (looks more like the color for a Mitsubishi than a Mercury).

andre1969

I think the basic big Mercury was the Monterrey. The Marquis was the uplevel model, and had hidden headlights, whereas they were exposed on the Monterrey.

Montego was actually an intermediate Mercury, but I can't remember when they started using that name. It ultimately replaced the intermediate Comet, but they probably ran the names concurrently for awhile, like Ford did with Fairlane and Torino.

michaellno

Yep, it's the Monterrey. My grandmother had a '67, IIRC, that had a 390 in it. Longer than the USS Nimitz, with a trunk that could comfortably sleep 4.

Was originally a metallic blue, but at some point she had it repainted to a cream color. I was able to drive it a little when I turned 16. I remember taking it to Dodger Stadium with my dad once ... one of my first forays onto the LA freeway system. Yowzah - what power!

I really wanted to get it when she passed on a few years later, but my mom and uncle nixed that idea.

andre1969

when your parents do stuff like that "for your own good"?!

ghulet

McGarrett's car in Hawaii Five-O was, I believe, a '68 (or maybe a '67) Park Lane, or possibly a '67 Brougham (designation used in '67 only). The Marquis name was first used in '67, but in two-door hardtop form only until the '69 model year. Nice looking cars, not too common, and still quite cheap if you can find one.

Mr_Shiftright

Nope, LaSalles are not considered classics after 1933 models. This makes sense as the brand was de-contented after that. So $15K for a 4-door 1939 LaSalle in a very clean "driver" condition would be just about "market correct" IMO, and not likely to appreciate very much. But if it were sharp you couldn't get too hurt buying it. Finding a buyer though will take a bit of time. They like the fastback coupes, which can pull in the low $20Ks.

jrosasmc

Ok, I know, I may sound crazy, but I'm prepared to take the plunge and try to purchase this '79 VW Bus I've been lusting for a while now. The owner lives across the street from me and wants $2500 for it. It's in good condition, and has 141k miles on it (the engine's been rebuilt). Any weaknesses to watch for?

ghulet

IIRC, VW Busses are dangerously slow, so be careful merging onto the freeway! Also, watch for the usual rust, and I seem to remember some overheating issues? They're kinda fun vehicles, though, you can haul all your friends and stuff and not spend as much on gas as you would with a more 'traditional' van or SUV.

stickguy

Must be a Marquis then, since it had hidden headlights. I knew the Montega was "mid size" (aka TOrino size), but couldn't remember any other model names off the top of my head.

Nothing personal, but I think some of you need to get out more ;-)

Mr_Shiftright

Price seems okay on that VW bus---your biggest obstacle is the engine, which MUST be given a compression test and which MUST be currently running well, starting well, etc.

These engines are not the simple VW sedan engines of the 1960s, but rather a flat (pancake) 4 cylinder with finicky Bosch electronic fuel injection.

So if it starts well, runs well and passes the cylinder leakdown test, and there are no horrible noises coming out of the transmission (and it doesn't jump out of gear), you might go for it.

The reason I stress the engine is this: to do a thorough rebuild is quite expensive, more than the van is actually worth. So this "rebuild" would be interesting to examine, as in who did it, what did they do exactly and how much did it cost? If the bill was $800, you didn't get a rebuild, or even $2,000. What you probably got was a valve job and maybe new jugs and pistons. Here again, what make of parts? German or Japanese? Engine is a bear to take out as well---none of this scissor jack business like with the little VW bugs.

So be optimistic but be careful. Spend $100 now or a fortune later.

wimsey1

Just getting settled here in Michigan.
Saw a Morgan on the Interstate in transit and there is a yellow MG TD for sale near town.
Big sighting on Saturday, a real honest to Carrol Shelby '64 Cobra! I don't think I have ever seen a real one on the street before. He obviously gets out to GIngerman Raceway with it, runnig slicks, race harness, sewerpipe exhaust on the side, roll bar. Looked great.
With the track nearby I expect to see many more cool vehicles, maybe even get the Miata out to the track.

Mr_Shiftright

How did you figure that Cobra was real? The replicas are extremely accurate. I have to look underneath now to spot a real one (they have tubular frames) but maybe there are tricks I don't know.

andys120

If it really was a '64, it would've been a small-block of which their aren't many good replicas, although Wimsey's description sounded more like a 427 Cobra (IIRC originally '65-'67)of which replicas outnumber real 'uns by about 100:1. Yes, some of them are done right and look very real, a few even have aluminum bodies!

wimsey1

It was parked and had a SHelby American plate on the dash. Michigan plate "64COBRA". I think it was a small block, the fenders didn't look big enough for a 427. Never thought to look under it at the frame and suspension until it was gone. Didn't they do a race special 289 with side exhaust etc., 289 FIA or something? It was in great shape but had the patina of years that is hard to replicate also.
Oddly, I saw a 99EMS last night, kinda' freaky as you guys were just on them. Haven't seen a 99 in a long time, my family had two while growing up. Personaly burnt the one!

andys120

styled after the small-block car that won the Makes GT Championship in '65. And yes the race cars and replicas both had side pipes, tho they were smaller and more subtle than those seen on the 427SCs.

Anything's possible but I doubt you saw a real FIA small block parked on the street (It belongs in a museum or a race track paddock). Certainly some real small-blocks were modified to look like the championship racers but it's most likely you saw a replica, a pretty cool-looking one at that.

norrmanndo

I saw a Ford Vicky the other day (replica).

I drove along side a $400K Porsche Carrera the other day on the freeway. Top down with two 30-something women inside. I was behind it for a short while and then pulled along side just to get a good look at it.

I also gut stuck in traffic on the beltway next to a new Bentley.

wimsey1

I suppose some people fake the manufacturers tag on the dash also. That was what I was mainly going on thinking it was real. If it is local and I see it again I'll get down and look for the frame tubes and transverse leafs (I assume only real small blocks have the AC suspension).

andys120

the transverse leaves (leafs?) are not found on the big block cars AFAIK.

wimsey1

I'm pretty sure it was an actual Studebaker built machine, thought I saw the Stude name on it in passing. I rather like those quirky looking machines.

kyfdx

Late '70s.. For sale.. almost rust free, which I found pretty amazing.. You almost never see one of these, along with Mustang II and Pintos. Usually they have rusted completely away.

regards,
kyfdx

jrosasmc

I think almost all mid- to late '70s Fords had a bad reputation for rusting very quickly.

kyfdx

El Camino SS... '72, I think.. red with black hood stripes.. Didn't catch the engine designation though.. Real deep rumbling exhaust. It sounded like a big block. Fat muscle car tires.. Really, really nice.

regards,
kyfdx

fintail

Wow, I saw an Avanti today too. I think it was a 70s one, big rectangular lights and kind of a blocky front end. It had real wire wheels too.

andys120

because they didn't change the styling much from the time Studebaker intro'ed them in '62 until the Avanti Corp. stopped making them (late '90s IIRC). The Studebaker made ones had two round headlights (IIRC), so they're easy to tell.

Later cars made by Avanti had round h/ls in squared enclosures (not square h/ls). Later heavier bumpers were added, as was a convertible model, removing the top subtracted quite a bit from the looks and I imagine, the structure, of the Avanti.

I remember being totally impressed by the Avanti, when it first came out. Now when I see one, I wonder what all the fuss was about. It's really tall and narrow by modern standards.

stickguy

I saw an Avanti convert today at a local high-end used car dealer. Some real nice stuff, Porsches, a Ferrari, assorted big Mercs and BMWs. Nice place to browse.

I didn't stop, so I don't have any particulars on the Avanti.

fintail

I had the fintail out today, and that always seems to bring some weirdo cars out. I saw a nice 64 Falcon sedan, a not so nice earlier Falcon, a '62 Coupe DeVille, an old Toyota Corolla 4x4 wagon turned into a demo derby car, and a c.49 Chevy 4 door fastback.

I also had my camera with me, and snapped a few pics of some other oddballs. It's still not easy getting pics while driving.

Extremely clean old Saab, in period colors

Original unrestored old T-Bird. Clean enough but not mint looking, sign on it said $14K.

This isn't very obscure, and it is hard to make out, as it was shot from a distance. A Mercedes ML pulling a travel trailer. Never seen that before

Strange parking lot grouping....MGB GT, old style Mini Cooper, and Maserati 430

Another unusual grouping, from where the fintail sleeps. Clockwise from bottom, MB W126 sans doors, nicest ponton sedan I've ever seen (two tone, 220SE, crying out for wide whites), with unfortunate small crease, fintail Universal undergoing cosmetic resto, barely visible MB W107, pristine W124 coupe, very nice c.1946 GMC truck, and my fintail.

fintail

A few ebay oddities:

Not many left like this, although the starting price seems like market value

Speaking of Avanti...this is an earlier car, looks better than the later ones

A big engined (relative to others of the make) for Shifty

Big project

Money and sense so rarely meet each other

lancerfixer

I'll give the Citroen owner mad points for originality.

Mr_Shiftright

CITROEN: Ohhhhhh...you know, very clever piece of work, and shows talent, but where did the good taste go? Too bad he pimped it out.

NSU: Cute little thing but it needs to go to the vet to have the tin worms treated, looks like.

EDSEL WAGON: Can we all say "part car!". Where was this thing stored, the hold of the Bismarck?

Austin A-55.....oh, dear, the high bidder is already buried for life in the car. Some people really, REALLY need a crash course in the value of collectible cars. Nasty little thing of no discernible merit or technical interest, but like they say, there is a butt for every seat.

jrosasmc

I was just wondering...have you ever met Steve Wilkinson, the former editor-in-chief of Car & Driver magazine in the mid-1970s? He just published a wonderful book called "The Gold-Plated Porsche." It is a very interesting read and I highly recommend it.

In the book he describes, in painstaking detail, all the good points and bad points of the Porsche 911. He also dicusses the two-year refurbishing of a ratty '83 911 SC that he purchased. Mr. Wilkinson quotes Dr. Ferry Porsche as saying: "Porsche cars were meant to be driven, not polished and babied."

Mr_Shiftright

I read a review of that book and I'd like to get it. Sounds hilarious (as long as it isn't happening to YOU).Apparently, when he was done with this "fixer-upper" he had about $59,000 in what is basically a $15,000 car. Sounds about the right formula, 4 to 1 against! LOL!

I always warn people that a Porsche is not a car you want to buy broken or shabby.

Actually I've got my eye on a '72 911T, but it has rebuilt engine and transmission.

jrosasmc

Oh yeah, Wilkinson also mentioned two common 911 shortcomings: weak German a/c and poorly made interior door handles (they're plastic).

Mr_Shiftright

Well the interior door handles are an easy fix, so I don't know why he's making a big deal about that. As for German a/c, I think that goes without saying for any German made car in the 1980s---good luck! The cars themselves though are tough and rock solid. A 1983 SC was a good choice but he just...well...lost control of himself I guess.

It's weird owning a car where the engine is worth more than the automobile. I suppose we'll be seeing more and more of that, what with labor rates for rebuilding so high.

As Peter Egan says, complexity is like a huge storage battery. The factory puts complexity into the car when it builds it and then it leaks out over the years, until somebody (hopefully not US) has to put the complexity back in.

jrosasmc

One more comment...so will it be likely that a rebuild of the engine in my 1993 Volvo 850 will cost more than the entire vehicle is worth?

kyfdx

Sitting in a yard along the highway, in west central Ohio.. mint green.. didn't look too bad as I went by at 65 MPH.

kyfdx

Took a trip this weekend to visit my mother-in-law in Amish country in N.E. Indiana.

I passed a horse-drawn buggy that had purple neon under-carriage lights (literally, under-carriage). I kid you not.

regards,
kyfdx

lancerfixer

Yes.

michaellno

A colleague of mine sent this link to me this morning. Got to love the descriptions he provides:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1827- 5&item=2481794738&rd=1

(sorry, don't know how to reword the link to a more meaningful description).

wimsey1

there it was. Walking by I thought it was an older Land Cruiser from the back but the proportions were wrong. Got close and it said "Austin Champ" on the tail. The hood had decals that said Rolls Royce B40 (that the I-6 engine?). Were these ever imported and when? This was in very nice shape, maroon in color.
Anybody know about these, it must be the most obscure thing I've seen. Apparently you can see anything in South Haven, cool.
The Avanti I saw must have been a Stude, it had the round headlight bezels (which I like better).