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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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  • tariktarik Member Posts: 344
    ...anything you always wanted to know about the FORD Sierra.

    Right??? ;-P

    Shifty, I think you got the Scorpio's real problem figured out (post #3634), LOL!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not the first time a car has suffered from "who makes this thing anyway" syndrome.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Peugeot ---nah, nah, fintail, Shiftright likes Peugeot diesels.

    Alpina -- well, I hope somebody from Germany bids on it because Americans don't have a clue about this car.

    Detroit Electric -- the hilarious thing is that modern all-electric cars have a performance level not dramatically different from this one. Not a lot of progress here in 70 years! You go faster now, but not much further. This is why hybrids took over.

    Lancia Appia -- given that I can buy a really nice one that I just saw for $8,000, restoring this one doesn't seem like a good idea. HOWEVER, the parts are worth something, so I'd buy these two cars and part them out. Lancia parts are scarce and valuable, at least to the 3 or 4 people in the world who collect Lancia Appias. Actually, it's a very well made, technically advanced car. It would make a 60s British car look like Fred Flintstone built it.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,586
    That Alpina looks great.. How hard would it be to get a title and registration in the U.S, though? Why go to all the trouble to import it into Canada last year, and now sell it?

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I wouldn't touch a 1980 "gray market" car unless it had all its EPA and DOT papers in order. Just a guess, but I don't think that Alpina is going to be legal in the USA. I'd sure check with the gov'mint before I bought it! I know for sure you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of registering it in California.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I think that Alpina is cool. It's a 1987 grey market car, but a weird alien no less. I believe it is much easier to get such material into Canada, as I don't think Canada has the same insanely injustifiable restrictive DOT/EPA regulations that waste endless amounts of money patrolling even 20 year old cars. Maybe better luck in a state without heavy pollution standards. I know in Quebec, Citroens are not uncommon, and there is an importer in Vancouver that ships over French cars and Euro MBs.

    There was a beautiful 604 diesel on ebay months ago that actually brought like 4 grand. I was halfway tempted, just like with that pretty Fiat 2300.

    I like that Appia...cool font on the nameplate on the trunk handle too. I like the Lancia sedans that came before it more, though, that had kind of a prewar look.

    Now that my dad is retired, he's tossing around the idea of an old car. His tastes can be called "obscure". He's found a sound original 51 Plymouth fastback that he could pick up for under a grand. He also often talks of getting a Chrysler/DeSoto airflow, he's now saying he'd rather have one than a Cord (when I was little, he almost bought a halfway finished project Cord)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well for smog-laden cities like LA, the EPA is a good thing. Some old cars pollute 60 times that of a new car--but it's really as much about safety equipment as dirty engines when it comes to gray market cars.

    Anyway, I'm sure current level EPA/DOT rules are here to stay, so no Alpinas unless you bring them "up to snuff".

    Peugeot 604s are okay as long as you stay away from the dreaded V-6. That's a car that'll break your heart.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I can't see the problem...the average consumer isn't going to want a 20 year old foreign car with unsure history and weird equipment, with absolutely no chance of warranty. Such cars would be sold in very small numbers to an enthusiast market, and would be an insignificant number when compared to cars on the road in general. It would be a "special interest" market, and pretty harmless I think. What safety equipment? Like seatbelts? Or those crummy bumpers? I know you can find grey market MB 126 cars with ABS and airbag from 1981, but you won't find a US spec with such features until 1985. Not to mention the smoother bumpers and lights. If anything, many non NA models are more advanced than what we get normally.

    I think what it really boils down to is some
    EPA/DOT henchman who like to power trip. It's just something else to control, and I am sure it's all they have now that so many models are standard across many markets. I bet back in the 80s those guys had a field day.

    I have memories of a 604 from when I was very young, and I actually don't mind the styling. Every time I see one locally, its a beater, though.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    If I'm correct the Peugeot 604 used the same V-6 that plagued the Volvo 260 series and the DeLorean.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,345
    Come drive Volare today, ride small the comfortable way!

    Now that you all (well, at least Andre) have that jingle in your heads, I saw a Volare (unless it was an aspen) "hot rod" model. I think they actaully called it the Road Runner (Aspen was an R/T?). Red, with all the snappy 70's graphics and spoilers. Looked real sharp from the other side of the highway. Why anyone would invest $$ in one, I have no idea.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    EPA/DOT regulations are really the auto industry's own fault. Most monsters are co-created it seems.

    Peugeot---Yep, the V-6 engine wasn't very good. Not a car you want to mess with.
  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
    Thanks as always for your "mining", Fintail.
    Always some fun stuff.

    DEFINATELY see more odd/cool stuff in S. Haven!

    I would enjoy some feedback on this, which of these two (sighted within a few blocks of each other) is more obscure?
    Item 1. Early TVR (Grantura/Griffith body)no idea what engine.
    or
    Item 2. Lotus/Kia FWD "Elan"

    Other weekend sightings, 2 NSX's, a '47 Ford convert (hotrod), nice 2002 (pre-bumper law), '65 Mustang fastback, and an early '60's Ferrari!
    Couldn't ID the Ferrari, nose like a 275 GTB but with a rounded, not chopped, tail and little rectangular tail lights that wrap around the rear corners. Coupe, vents behind the front wheels. WHat did I see?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...but nice. I saw a 1978 Chevrolet Caprice Landau two-door and a 1977 Oldsmobile Delta 88. Both cars were in excellent condition. The Olds was for sale. I should check it out. It would make a nice daily driver.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    for sale at the Carlisle PA GM Nationals this past weekend, for some reason I got fixated on this beat-up '75 Buick Regal coupe that the guy wanted $2200 for. It was a light blue with a white landau roof. The interior didn't match at all though...it was kind of a greenish/silver/gray hue, with very upscale fabrics. The guy said it was special-ordered in a Riviera-only color, but I've seen that shade of blue on plenty of other Buicks, I'm sure. It seemed like it would have gone great with a light green or silver, or gray car though.

    Anyway, the interior wasn't too bad. It looked faded and worn at first, because it really clashed with that shade of blue, but then I realized that was the color it was SUPPOSED to be! It wasn't too rusty for a car of this vintage, either. Looked like mainly along the lower edges of the door and the rear wheel openings. The paint was pretty bad on the horizontal surfaces. It had an incredibly sweet sounding Buick 350-4bbl. If I needed a car and could've gotten this beast for about $1200, I would've gone for it.

    Oh yeah, I did end up buying a car that day, but I'm not gonna tell what it is. ;-) I'll post some pics though, when I get a chance...
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,586
    Lotus/Isuzu.. not, Lotus/Kia..

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  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I think you saw a Ferrari Superfast or Superamerica, Wimsey. They're very rare, and very fast. They were the top of the line Ferraris for the early and middle 60s. I believe the Old Man himself drove a Superamerica back in the day. They used the Colombo (big block) V12
    rather that the more commonplace Lampredi engine used in the 250/275/330 series cars.

    http://www.qv500.com/ferrari500superfastp1.htm

    If the tail was more rounded than the blue car's shown in the link it was likely the earlier Superamerica you saw.

    I love those model names: "500 Superfast" and 400 "Superamerica"!
    --
    On a more mundane note but still fairly rare, I saw a Studebaker Loewy H/T coupe on a country road yesterday, dual tones: forest green over sea-foam green.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
    any pics of the back of one so I can ID that FURRAREE? Thanks for the thoughts.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    You have to hear about this: I saw a '79 Alfa Spider Veloce for sale on Ebay with 225k miles. That's right, 225k miles. How a late '70s U.S.-spec Alfa made it that far and that long is beyond me. It was located in the L.A. area and it looked like it was in excellent condition. The car was even advertised as having the original SPICA injection system (yuck).
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Unfortunately I can't find a shot online of the rear of the Ferrari SA
    I have so,me great ones in print but that does little good, eh.

    This is a good one and you can sorta get an idea how rounded the back is from it....

    http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/events-stories/events/2004/f- - errari-s-50th-anniversary-in-the-usa/ferrari-s-50th-anniversary-i- - n-the-usa-gallery-2/1961-ferrari.html

     As you say the front is much like the later 274 GTB/GTS
    especially the long-nose version.

    www.barchetta.cc is an excellent source of Ferrari photos, look on the bottom in small print for some good Maserati pix as well.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'll take one of each, please

    Berlinetta Lusso was a perfect design.
  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
    I think it must have been a bit newer, mid 60's?
    the back end was pretty blunt, just rounded a bit rather than the abrupt chop off of the 275GTB (I think the 275 GTB is the one I mean, my Ferrari book is still in Minnesota).

    Fin-agreed, is there anybody, anywhere that doesn't like the Lusso body?

    So, any takers yet on the which is an odder sighting, fwd Elan or early TVR? I'm thinking the Elan, I didn;t know it was ever imported here.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    actually, I'd go the other way around, I seem to remember the Elan being here, but I've never seen a single TVR product here in the States....ever.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,586
    Look back a hundred posts or so..I'm too lazy to tell you exactly where.. I saw an Elan about a month ago.. And an acquaintance bought one new back in '90 or '91..

    I'd say the TVR is a much more rare sighting.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,586
    kyfdx May 31, 2004 11:33pm!keywords=allin:msgtext limit:.ef0e895 lotus elan kyfdx

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  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Early TVRs are rare indeed, I'd guess rarer than the Lotus/Isuzu Elan which was officially imported.

    I've actually driven a TVR 2500 that belonged to my cousin in the late 50s. It's one of the best handling cars I've been behind the wheel of. The stubby 2500 coupe was powered by the same straight 6 that powered the TR5/250 and the TR6 (it was lighter than those).

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
    The TVR owner would probably agree, apparently he had answered the "whaddizzit" question too often, the liscence plate read "ITSATVR".
    Thanks for the feedback! It appears the TVR is the odd ball (in everyway), it is certainly the car I would want of the pair.
    Cheerio lads!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I saw what I think was a 67 Toronado today, behind me, in traffic. It was black, big, and shiny. What a perfectly imposing evil looking vehicle. Great presence.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    Today I was out running some errands and saw a '71-ish Pontiac Ventura (Nova clone) coupe in period dark green, and a gray-market late-70s/early-80s Mercedes 280E sedan.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A euro-spec Nissan Micra!

    It's weird to see the cars that diplomats drive around here in the nation's capital, and why would you import a tiny little econobox like that, instead of, say, an Alfa 156?

    Any how, it sure stood out.

    -juice
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Possibly the bitty little Micra was the diplomat's personal car back home. From what I've seen of DC parking and traffic, a micro-car isn't a bad choice for someone living in the city.
    ---------

    Meanwhile I saw:

    '73 Karmann Ghia Convertible I could tell the year by the plate #: 73VWKG.

    Dodge Dart Swinger white w big black stripe acrooss the rear
    large hood scoops and non-stock slotted wheels. Very clean and straight looking, no engine badging (could this have been a Slant six car tarted up to look tough? Andre could prolly tell us whether Swingers were all V8s). For sale--this could be a nice driver for someone interested in a little muscle--assuming a 283 or 318 underhood.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    The Nissan Micra was somewhat popular in Canada in the '80s. It was widely available as the Nissan subcompact. Phil Edmundston, one of the automotive consumer advocates in Canada and the US, owned one and featured it on one of his Lemon-aid Guides a few editions ago.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    The Swinger was available with both Six or V8 for all years available.

    In looking up that little fact, I discovered that the Demon (and in '73 on, the Dart Sport), which were the Duster clones, actually cost less than the 'regular' Darts. I always thought they were bigger and a bit sportier looking, hence more expensive. Not so.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    "Swinger" denoted any kind of performance was in 1969, the first year it was used. That year, Dodge fielded a low-priced muscle compact called the Swinger 340. It was essentially a GTS in entry-level Dart trim.

    In 1970 though, I think all the Dart hardtops were called "Swinger", in the same fashion that Plymouth called all their Valiant hardtops "Scamp". Plymouth had dropped their Valiant hardtops and 'verts after 1966, because they didn't want them to cannibalize sales from the Barracuda. For 1970 though, the Duster was originally supposed to be a Plymouth-only thing. Dodge wanted in on that, so essentially they made an exchange. Dodge got a version of the Duster, and called it the Demon. Plymouth got a rebadged Dart hardtop, and called it the Scamp (Back then, Darts rode a 3" longer wheelbase than Plymouths).

    If that Swinger was a 70's model, it could either be a tarted up 198 or 225 slant six, or a 318. Or, if you're lucky, it could be a 340 or 360 under the hood! It's hard to tell once they've been modified, as anything could end up under there! Heck, a Hemi would even (barely) fit!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Today's sights were a Merkur Scorpio, a showroom looking Volvo P1800, and a 57 Buick 2 door post, the kind with the three piece rear windshield.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    that '57 Buick would be a Special? They probably only had the 2-door post in their cheapest lineup. Didn't some Oldsmobiles use that 3-piece rear window, too?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I think Olds had it too, yeah. This car was a Buick for sure, with the distinctive two tone pattern. I didn't catch the model. It was black and white, looked like a decent original, but surely not a restored car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Didn't all Oldsmobile 2-door hardtops have that 3-piece rear window? I'm thinking the smaller Buick Century/Special hardtops did as well, but the bigger Super and Roadmaster (and Limited for '58) only came in a hardtop style with a reverse-slant C-pillar, kinda like a '58 Impala.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I think you might be right. I don't see many of those around, of course, but I do know Olds had it, and I do recall the models with the reverse slant rear window. This car I saw was probably a base model, it just didn't have a fancy air to it.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,345
    Andre would probably know off the top of his head, but I wonder how many names the basic Dart appeared under in the US. I had a 73 Duster in high school (my 2nd car) that I still remember fondly.

    Anyway, I thought of:

    Dart
    valiant
    duster
    scamp
    swinger

    I kow there are more (and some may be models of the other), but unfortunately, this is how I pass the time.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Duster Twister! The Gold Duster! The Demon! Feather Duster! (no, REALLY) and the Dodge Dart Lite (same as Feather Duster---rare economy models).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Dart Lite...ROFL...hilarious
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    but supposedly those Dart Lite and FeatherDuster models were EPA-rated at 36 mpg on the highway! I know the EPA rated cars more generously until around 1984, but still...

    As for the Dart, it appeared in a ton of different names and series during its lifespan. In 1960, it was actually a full-sized model, basically a prettier looking Plymouth. It came in Seneca, Pioneer, and Phoenix trim levels, to compete with the likes of Savoy/Belvedere/Fury and Biscayne/Bel Air/Impala.

    In '62, Chysler tried downsizing, about 15 years too early. As a result, Dodge and Plymouth, accidentally helped create the intermediate market. Although that same year, Ford fielded the Fairlane/Meteor, which were INTENDED to be intermediates! Anyway, I think that year, the Dart was offered as Dart 330, Dart 440, and Dart 770 (and contrary to popular belief, those are NOT engine displacements!).

    1963 was the first year of the compact Dart that most people love. That year it was offered as a base 170 and uplevel 270. I can't remember if the sporty GT was added that year or the next though. Engine choices this year were the 170 (probably why people think the number of the model corresponds with the engine displacement) or 225 slant six.

    In 1964, you could get a 273 V-8 in the Dart, and this is what's making me think '64 was the first year for the GT. Despite the sporty name though, the GT still came standard with just a slant six.

    In 1967, the lineup was Dart 170, Dart 270, Dart GT, and Dart GT-Sport (or GTS). Now I'm getting a little fuzzy here. I thought the '67 GTS came standard with a 340 and an optional 383, but this ad: http://www.dodgedart.org/brochure/67dartad.html says the 383 was standard. It also says disk brakes were standard up front, which I did not know, either.

    I know in '68 though, the GTS could be had with a 340 or 383. You could also get a 440 under the hood, but I think that was farmed out, and not done on a Chrysler assembly line. And something like 60-70 Dart Hemi's were trotted out the door, at about $4,000 a copy.

    In '69, they changed the lineup to Dart, Dart Custom, Dart GT, Dart Swinger 340, and Dart GTS, dropping the 170 and 270 designations. I have a feeling that those numbers WERE confusing people. In fact, about a year ago, I had a guy who wanted to buy my Dart try to tell me it had a 270 V-8 in it! I told him I honestly didn't know if it had a 273 or a 318 (the VIN says 273, but the engine was either rebuilt or replaced with a rebuilt around 240K...previous owner told me it was a 318). But this guy kept trying to tell me is was a 270 V-8. I didn't realize at first where he as getting that number from at first, and the first thing that popped into my mind was the old Dodge 270 Hemi! But then it finally hit me...he was seeing the Dart 270 badge on the dashboard!

    Anyway, 1970 was when they started throwing the Swinger name all over the place. I think 4-door sedans were either called Dart or Dart Custom, while hardtops were either Dart Swinger or Dart Swinger Custom? Then there was the Swinger 340, which replaced the GTS. There was also the Demon and Demon 340.

    I think it was '73 that the 340 was replaced by a high-output 360-4bbl which put out about 245 hp. good by the standards of the day. That year also saw the Demon name change to Dart Sport. A lot of people didn't like the Demon name, and little old ladies were afraid to drive their Demons to church on Sunday! I also believe the Hi-Po Swinger was dropped for '73, and the only high-output model was the Dart Sport 360.

    In 1974, Dodge must have known the Granada was coming, or maybe they just figured out on their own that people wanted more luxury in their compacts, so they offered a lavishly trimmed model called the Dart SE. Plymouth's version was the Valiant Brougham. They featured color-keyed wheelcovers and the interior sported velours, padded vinyl, and thick shag carpeting that would have done any Caddy, Lincoln, or Imperial proud!

    One other Dart Sport model that was offered in '75 was the Hang-Ten model. I don't know much about it, but remember the name. I think it had a folding rear seat that made the already generous trunk incredibly spacious. IIRC is also had a floor shift and bucket seats, and some kind of woven fabric inserts that were a combination of burgundy, white, and black. They also had something else called a "Convertriple", which had a folding sunroof and the folding back seat. I might be mixing up some of the details on these two, though.

    '76 was the Dart's last year, as it was run concurrently with the Dodge Aspen. In many ways, the Dart would prove to be a serious shot in the foot to Chrysler, because the damn things were so reliable that no subsequent model could match it! Well, that, and the '76 Aspen/Volare were the most recalled cars in history, at least up until GM's 1980 X-cars took that title!
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Plenty of Dart trivia out there from all of you.

    My research would indicate that the big hood scoops denote the presence of a V8, probably a 340 but there was no badge that I could see with engine size on it, as would be typical for muscle cars of the era. Didn't think to look for the dual exhaust.

    I was pretty impressed by the condition of this car.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    a dual exhaust would definitely be a tip-off for a high-output engine. A stock slant six or 318 would only have a single exhaust. IIRC, the exhaust on a slant six came out on the left driver's side in back, and on the passenger side for the 318. At least in Darts.

    But after 30 years, it's quite possible that a V-8 model might have been fitted with a dual exhaust. My '68 Dart 270 originally had a single, but was dual by the time I got it. I've heard that it's possible to do a dual exhaust on a slant six, but usually not worth it, so they're quite rare. I think what they do is replace the long exhaust manifold with two smaller ones, with each one only handling 3 combustion chambers.

    As for the hood scoops, most likely they would have been from a high-performance model, but again, after this many years, it's quite possible that they were put onto a cheaper model.

    BTW, if anybody's interested, here's more Dart info than anybody would probably ever want: http://www.dodgedart.org
  • wimsey1wimsey1 Member Posts: 201
    A CMC "Tiffany", Cougar based, I presume (roof line). Possibly the nastiest Faux-classic I have seen.
    It may be "penance" for the Ferrari sighting. ;-)

    Andre-your knowledge of Dodge products is frightening! If I ever need to know about one I know where to come.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...Al Bundy was always talking about his Dodge on the show "Married With Children." What year and model Dodge did he have? I think the producers screwed up because it appears Mr. Bundy is actually driving a Plymouth Duster.
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