I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

That Adenauer might isn't guaranteed to sell to a Euro, but it will sell. The market is so speculatively hot right now, and I think that car has enough panache to pull it off. It won't be a money laundering vehicle like the upper end of the market, but I can see a rich guy somewhere just having to have it. I am surprised it isn't in the MB Museum already.

ab348

Visited with a friend today who showed off his latest acquisition, a 1994 Mercedes C280 bought from a friend, the original owner. It has about 90K km (55K miles) on it, supposedly never winter driven. Sort of a nondescript taupe metallic outside with gray leather inside. It is exceptionally clean and seems well-maintained. He has installed a set of Michelin X-Ice tires and will be using it as his winter car to spare his 2006 W221 S-550. It may just be bravado or excess enthusiasm, but he says he likes driving it better than the S-class because it is smaller and more nimble, which might actually be true since I think he has always been a bit intimidated by the tech in that car.

Not the most exciting car for sure, but likely more practical than an S-class for driving in the salt and slush, though he says it seems less capable in that environment than the big car since it is not 4Matic like the big one.

fintail

I hope he had the underside treated with something - W202s are known to not exactly be rust averse, especially in the wheelarches and suspension - google the "spring perch" issue. It seems to pop up on later cars than 94, but I would still be cautious. I can imagine the car now, the typical for the era color and no doubt original 8 spoke wheels.

It's probably a less detached driving experience than the W221, which is a real luxobarge, with a lot of tech. Kind of like how driving the fintail feels like driving a little old fashioned sports car compared to the any E I have had - as it is lighter and revvier.

ab348 said:

Visited with a friend today who showed off his latest acquisition, a 1994 Mercedes C280 bought from a friend, the original owner. It has about 90K km (55K miles) on it, supposedly never winter driven. Sort of a nondescript taupe metallic outside with gray leather inside. It is exceptionally clean and seems well-maintained. He has installed a set of Michelin X-Ice tires and will be using it as his winter car to spare his 2006 W221 S-550. It may just be bravado or excess enthusiasm, but he says he likes driving it better than the S-class because it is smaller and more nimble, which might actually be true since I think he has always been a bit intimidated by the tech in that car.

Not the most exciting car for sure, but likely more practical than an S-class for driving in the salt and slush, though he says it seems less capable in that environment than the big car since it is not 4Matic like the big one.

ab348

Witnessed the indoor debut today of the end result of a 5-year restoration project on a friend's '71 4-4-2 2-door hardtop. The project was originally intended as a father-son deal but that ended early on as the son discovered girls and other things a teenager likes these days. That wasn't the only bump in the road. The original buy was probably unwise but was done a couple of months after he retired from his job and was looking for something to do. This car was touted as having a freshly rebuilt engine and that was the main attraction, offsetting some visible and what turned out to be hidden rust issues. It was traceable back to its original owners and had been purchased from them by the seller, who had run into some financial difficulties and was selling off all sorts of stuff.

As disassembly began the ugly truth began to reveal itself. While the frame and chassis was very solid, and the cabin floors revealed only minor cancer, there was serious rust around both the front and rear windshields so severe (hidden by a vinyl top) that ultimately the decision was taken to replace the entire upper body (roof and window pillars), the entire dash, and the rear quarters, with further rust repairs to the trunk floor, the trunk lid, and fender bottoms. That was followed by an extensive process to source correct Saturn Gold paint (the current formula produced a shade that did not match hidden sections of the original) while my friend was sourcing components from all over North America.

My friend is a perfectionist and almost obsessive in his love for Olds A-bodies, and he went off the deep end on this one, upgrading the car with factory options it did not originally have, all of which he would rebuild or restore. He is an originality fanatic and so decided to replace the vinyl roof during the restoration despite all the problems it originally caused (not that this car will ever see the wet now). Measurements were taken of the original striping from the factory and his painter replicated these after laying on an incredible paintjob, then buffing out many layers of clearcoat to make the stripes undetectable to the touch. Every piece of chrome was replated, every piece of stainless polished to a mirror finish, and even the anodized aluminum pieces were refinished. In the midst of all this the rebuilt engine was discovered to not be what it was supposed to be in terms of quality, and so was rebuilt again. The last year has been consumed with replacing the entire interior and final assembly. The cost is a closely guarded secret but has to be pushing $80K, maybe even 6 figures. It is as close to a #1 car as I will ever see. And even at that, it is not a particularly remarkable car in terms of equipment and options - not a W-30 car, not a bucket seat car, no A/C, no Posi. It is striking because I don't think I have ever seen one in these colors before (Saturn Gold paint, a bright greenish yellow-gold, white vinyl roof, pearl white interior) but on it's best day it would recover only a fraction of what he has spent. But I sense he doesn't care about that. This is what he wanted to prove he could do.

stickguy

80K is probably on the low end, unless he did a lot of work himself.

And that proves why the best move is often to just find someone that went overboard like this, and buy it for $.25 on the restoration $ when they need to unload it.

This actually reminds me of some of the projects they did on Graveyard Carz, with the sheer amount of metal work done on some of them.

hpmctorque

uplanderguy said:

andre, I remember the '73 Chevelle brochure showing the coupe's rear-seat legroom to be 32.9", which I believe they advertised as up a half-inch. The trunk in the '73 was 15.3 cu. ft. (going from memory) but I want to say the '68-72 was only something like 12.6 cu. ft. I'll have to look at the brochures online.

I recall the '73 Nova coupe (which we had) was actually roomier in the back seat than the '73 mid-size coupes--33.4" versus 32.9". The trunk was 14.7 cu. ft., larger than the '68-72 Chevelle coupes, going from memory.

Although on the same wheelbases, the '73-'77s look considerably larger to me than the '68-'71s.

Interesting what you say about the Nova and Chevelle comparisons because I felt the Nova back seat was more cramped and the trunk was smaller. Of the Detroit 3 compacts of that era the Dart/Scamp were definitely the roomy ones, and the Maverick/Comet 4-doors also had relatively roomy back seats.

The one I liked was the Omega with the Olds 350 V8, disc brakes and Turbo-Hydramatic. Some may laugh at the comparison, but I would argue that an Omega configured in that way could have, to use a Trump expression, "beaten the crap" out of the BMW 2002/3-Series on almost any American highway. The Omega was also less finicky and more reliable than the Beemer. To be fair, the Beemer had more cache', a more refined suspension and steering, and delivered better fuel economy. For my money, though, I would have chosen the Olds.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I couldn't find interior dimensions in the Chevelle brochures. I did used to have both the 1971 and 1973 showroom albums, which had much more information. Sold the '71 at Carlisle probably 25 years ago for $60 at my friend's space, and I sold it in the first ten minutes I was there. I regret that. The '73 book I had was out of the hard cover, and I gave it to a friend a few years back. Regret that too.

Found this site and on page 97 of 135 for the '72 Chevelle, it shows 32.3" of rear-seat legroom in coupes and 12.8 cubic feet of usable luggage space, close to what I'm remembering. I'm surprised a '68 Cutlass would have four more cubic feet of luggage space on the same wheelbase. Maybe the key word here is "usable". The similar thing online for '69's which I looked at didn't have any capacities for luggage space, unlike the '72 version I'm quoting here. I had to download the dumb thing to get to the page I wanted.

https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/docs/gm-heritage-archive/vehicle-information-kits/Chevelle/1972-Chevrolet-Chevelle.pdf

Here is the spec sheet for the '69 Cutlass. Legroom and trunk capacities are near the bottom of the page:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.org/NA/Oldsmobile/1969-Oldsmobile/1969-OLdsmobile-Dealer-SPECS/1969-Oldsmobile-Dealer-SPECS-19

uplanderguy

For some of those older measurements, I wonder if they took the spare tire out?

I bet you're right, since they started using the adjective "usable" in later years.

They also were using "effective leg room" by '72.

I just remember my sister's '69 Malibu Sport Coupe's back seat was barely tolerable, and I was about 13 when they got it and a short kid. The '67's and prior were simply bigger, squarer cars with bigger interiors and trunks, in my memory.

uplanderguy

hpmctorque, I could enjoy a well-equipped Omega of that era. Some may snicker because of lack of snob appeal or whatever, but you make valid points.

I liked the '75 X-body updates. In hindsight, I'm not crazy about the coupes' B-pillar styling, but the four-doors had a BMW-like roofline, at least to my eyes.

I could very much enjoy finding one of these, although it's been decades since I've seen one:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1975_Chevrolet/1975_Chevrolet_Nova_Brochure/1975 Chevrolet Nova-02.html

I like the styling and proportions much-better than any of the 1975 GM intermediate four-doors.

Of the early '70's compacts, I recall Dusters and Demons (or later, Dart Sports) had very large trunks for the size. I seem to remember the back seats being about equally miserable to the GM compacts, but that's trying to remember back a long time.

PF_Flyer

Ran across this on the National Geo YourShot photography site. From a "old car show" in Iran


He has a couple of more car shots in his gallery

http://yourshot.nationalgeographic.com/profile/243607/

Just click the load more link at the bottom of the thumnails to find them

andre1969

What do you guys think of this beast? 1975 Olds Toronado for $2995.

I think the mileage is a bit suspect, but still, it doesn't look bad. Not too crazy about the color, as I've had a few too many cars over the years in a similar shade and would like something a bit different, but still, I've always liked these big Toronados.

Oddly, I didn't find this one, but rather it found me. I think because of viewing those Cars.com ads for the '54 Roadmaster and the '66 Bonneville 4-door hardtop, those ads show up in my browser from time to time.

stickguy

not my cup of tea of course in general. But that is a really bad color on that car.

fintail

I had that same ad. I am sure it has gone around the clock, but it looks really clean and straight, probably a fair deal for someone who wants that style.

andre1969 said:

What do you guys think of this beast? 1975 Olds Toronado for $2995.

I think the mileage is a bit suspect, but still, it doesn't look bad. Not too crazy about the color, as I've had a few too many cars over the years in a similar shade and would like something a bit different, but still, I've always liked these big Toronados.

Oddly, I didn't find this one, but rather it found me. I think because of viewing those Cars.com ads for the '54 Roadmaster and the '66 Bonneville 4-door hardtop, those ads show up in my browser from time to time.

Mr_Shiftright

Seems very fair to me. Here in California at least, for $2500 you only get piles of junk.

hpmctorque

uplanderguy said:

hpmctorque, I could enjoy a well-equipped Omega of that era. Some may snicker because of lack of snob appeal or whatever, but you make valid points.

I liked the '75 X-body updates. In hindsight, I'm not crazy about the coupes' B-pillar styling, but the four-doors had a BMW-like roofline, at least to my eyes.

I could very much enjoy finding one of these, although it's been decades since I've seen one:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1975_Chevrolet/1975_Chevrolet_Nova_Brochure/1975 Chevrolet Nova-02.html

I like the styling and proportions much-better than any of the 1975 GM intermediate four-doors.

Of the early '70's compacts, I recall Dusters and Demons (or later, Dart Sports) had very large trunks for the size. I seem to remember the back seats being about equally miserable to the GM compacts, but that's trying to remember back a long time.

The '75-'79 GM X-bodies looked better than the intermediates in my eyes too.

The Dusters and Demons had even less rear seat leg room than the GM compacts, but the Darts and Scamps had generous back seat legroom. Come to think of it one of the latter with the 318, or better yet the 340, would have been an appealing alternative to the X-bodies.

fintail

Saw a pretty kind of powder blue early Porsche 356 on the road today, obviously restored. The passenger noticed my fintail.

stickguy

I had a Duster. Can't recall the rear leg room, but the people I drove around never complained!

the 340 Duster/Dart was a hot rod in the 70's. I remember Car and Driver doing top speed tests, and the 340/360 was up there. Outran the corvette, Mustang, etc. The other stud was the red wagon PU (360 with no emissions controls).

I would love a nice '73 Scamp/Dart 340 4 speed. Though would probably have to replace the seats. My back could never take them at this advanced age!

uplanderguy

Re.: that '75 Toronado--my friend (who works for a used car dealer) had a '74 Toronado with Brougham interior and the padded top with opera windows, on eBay only a couple weeks ago. I'm thinking it was bid to around the upper $2K's but didn't meet his reserve. It's a nice, honest, low-mileage (30's) car, with some wear on the driver's seat.

andre1969

I've never sat in the back seat of a Duster, but I'm sure they were pretty cramped. They were on a 108" wheelbase, which was 3" shorter than the two Dart hardtops I had. I want to say the Darts had 32-33" of legroom in the back seat, but I'm not positive. I could actually fit in the back of the Darts better than I could my LeMans, but part of that was because the back seat was lower, and it had bucket seats. As a result, I sat in more of a fetal position, and my legs would straddle the seatback of the bucket seat. The LeMans's seat isn't as low, and is much thicker. And the backrest of the bench seat is wider. And poorly padded.

The Aspen/Volare coupes, on a 108.7" wheelbase, were also really cramped in back.

berri

I can't recall if it was a Duster or a Dodge Demon, but I remember Mr. Norm's Grand Spaulding Dodge in Chicago where they were famous for selling torqued up Mopars once had a tarted up Duster like car with either a hemi or big block wedge engine in it. I wondered how they'd keep that thing on the road when the roads were wet.

IIRC the only way to tell a Duster from a Demon, besides the name plate or serial number, was that the Demon had a more vertical grill up front.

roadburner

You can keep most anything on the road with a little bit of skill and common sense- the best traction control system often resides between the driver's ears.
Another way to tell a Duster from a Demon is that the Duster had horizontal tail light cut outs while the Demon's were vertical.

tjc78

That Toro looks to be a decent deal, but @stickguy hit it on the head the color just doesn't work on that car.  

My grandfather had a Caddy of similar vintage in that same color combo and I thought the same thing 

uplanderguy

I just got that Toro ad to open/load.

Just me talking, but I doubt the mileage. The steering wheel seems that it shouldn't look like that with 9K miles.

That, and I've yet to see a dealer try asking anything less than twice what the car would go for on eBay.

I'd predict that if proof was asked for about the mileage, their answer would be that there is none but that's what the odometer says. I'd hope I'm wrong, but....

PF_Flyer

'72 Demon in red, '73 Duster in green

andre1969

I think it was only '68-69 that you could get the 440 and Hemi in the Dart or, at Plymouth, the Barracuda. Once the E-body Challenger/Barracuda came out for 1970, the big block focus seemed to be on them. I don't think Mopar "officially" offered a big block in the Demon/Duster, but that's not to say Mr. Norm didn't put one in, anyway!

uplanderguy

Could you get a 440 in a Dart? That surprises me. I'm talking about checking off a box in the brochure, and it being assembled that way at the plant, as opposed to a guy like Mr. Norm doing it at his dealership.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Could you get a 440 in a Dart? That surprises me. I'm talking about checking off a box in the brochure, and it being assembled that way at the plant, as opposed to a guy like Mr. Norm doing it at his dealership.

I don't think so. The 383 was the biggest I recall.

berri

Mr. Norm did customize Mopars for customers. At first Chrysler Corp. wasn't thrilled with him, but his sales success, particularly in GM oriented Chicago, ended up changing their opinion and he would later be up in the Detroit area assisting the Mopar high performance people sometimes. Interesting person, dealership and story. Oh, and if you grew up with his radio spots on WLS, you still remember them today

stever

Heh, I used to listen to WLS after dark growing up in N. Mississippi. Don't remember any of the ads though.

andre1969

From what I've read, the whole big-block in an A-body thing started in 1967. Initially, Mopar said it couldn't be done, but Mr. Norm was able to squeeze in a 383. However, it was a tight enough fit that the restricted exhaust cut power, and you couldn't get power steering or a/c. After a few months, I think Plymouth offered a Barracuda GT or something like that, and with a modified exhaust they got the power up somewhat, but it was still no match for a 390 Mustang or 396 Camaro. And, I think the Dart offered the engine as well. For 1968, Mr. Norm got Mopar to supply something like 48 or 50 Dodge Darts set up for 383 duty, but without the 383's installed, and they got 440s to fit in there.

There was also a Hemi Dart and Barracuda, but I forget if it was '68, '69, or both. My understanding is that these were intended only for the race track, sold with racing slicks on back, and actually had a plaque on the dash that said "not intended for street use". I've heard they built either 50 or 75 each of the Dart and Barracuda. To save weight, they were stripped down to where the back windows were stationary, the front windows raised and lowered like those in a school bus, and the front seats were the same buckets used in an A100 van.

I don't know if the Hemi models were built by Mopar or Mr. Norm. I do remember reading though, that a Hemi Dart cost about $4,000 new, which doesn't sound too bad when you figure my old '69 GT MSRPed for around $3600 new, with just a slant six! However, it had a/c, power steering, AM radio, and a lot of other stuff that padded the price.

berri

Mr. Norm ads had real fast talking, hyper excited announcers like the car racetrack spots, then there was Nickey Chevrolet with a backwards K and their Nickey, Nickey, Nickey Chevrolet ad jingle, and not to be forgotten was Arnie Nussam Chevy and the infamous "I'd like to give 'em away, but the wife won't let me" Sometimes I miss old time rock 'n roll radio!

toomanyfumes

I remember listening to WLS growing up in S.E. Wisconsin. Their jingle is still in my head. " W L S - Chicago! Saw an Alfa Romeo 164 in nice shape, white, on the freeway over the weekend, especially unusual this time of year.

fintail

Saw a "classic" style Range Rover in traffic this evening.

berri

Wait, an old British car actually running in the rain

Mr_Shiftright

It has been known to happen, even if it generally rains as much inside the car as out.

fintail

It was running and driving in the rain indeed.

Mr_Shiftright

I hope the sick and troubled will be brought to the car to be healed.

imidazol97

Went to ChickFilA on way home from son's apartment for washing machine repair guy visit. Nine-month old Maytag. Lid switches are failing to work right.

At ChickFilA Got a survey which gets me a free sandwich when validated online--3rd day in a row for a surve!. I think I'll buy a few Powerball tickets with this kind of luck! $450 million. Hmmm. What would I buy. Probably another Malibu 2016--nice look. And a Cruze diesel. And a Mercedes diesel. I wouldn't quit work. I shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch.

Michaell

imidazol97 said:

Went to ChickFilA on way home from son's apartment for washing machine repair guy visit. Nine-month old Maytag. Lid switches are failing to work right.

At ChickFilA Got a survey which gets me a free sandwich when validated online--3rd day in a row for a surve!. I think I'll buy a few Powerball tickets with this kind of luck! $450 million. Hmmm. What would I buy. Probably another Malibu 2016--nice look. And a Cruze diesel. And a Mercedes diesel. I wouldn't quit work. I shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch.

Had to make a run to the grocery store last night. Picked up a Powerball ticket as well.

1 in 200,000,000 (or thereabouts) - but, somebody has to win!

stever

The big jackpots don't interest me as much - often there are too many winners sharing the loot. I'd be happy with a simple $20 million dollar win.

Michaell

stever said:

The big jackpots don't interest me as much - often there are too many winners sharing the loot. I'd be happy with a simple $20 million dollar win.

A family friend won a small lotto in CA back in the early 90's ... $500K or thereabouts.

One of his purchases was a classic Corvette - got a vanity plate that read "6T WON"

stever

Clever. Guess the pot is up to $500 million.

Michaell

stever said:

Clever. Guess the pot is up to $500 million.

Somebody told me that here in Colorado, if you take the money up front, it's 37% of the prize amount, accounting for state and federal taxes.

$185 million would make my day, week, month, year and decade.

stickguy

well, with that, you might be able to go crazy, and bump up your budget for the next car all the way up to $250/month.

omarman

fintail said:

Saw a "classic" style Range Rover in traffic this evening...It was running and driving in the rain indeed.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I hope the sick and troubled will be brought to the car to be healed.

Funny. No really, really funny!

Michaell

stickguy said:

well, with that, you might be able to go crazy, and bump up your budget for the next car all the way up to $250/month.

Perhaps. Maybe $300.

Hard to change a lifetime of frugality overnight. But, it would be fun to try.

Mr_Shiftright

True up to a point but really I haven't observed that instant need gratification makes people deliriously happy. Nor, of course, does endless struggle.

Ooh, ooh....I'm pretty sure I spotted a Nissan Patrol today but I couldn't swing around to get a closer look...pretty sure though.

stever

My bud over in Texas offered to get me a Powerball - he's already got three and there's a drive through convenience store place (for getting beer, probably) where he can grab one easily on his way to Walmart. So now I'm either in a three way pool or I get to sue him and his old man when they win and cut me out.

When I win, I'm finding a nice first year Miata.

berri

Nine-month old Maytag. Lid switches are failing to work right.


I find it kind of interesting that while the Whirlpool owned brands seem to be declining in their CR ratings, their response is to complain about the Korean imports. Kind of ironic that they are based in Michigan too. Personally, I was a big Whirlpool buyer over the years, they made good stuff at fair prices -but not so much today sadly. Not just major appliances, but their Hoover vacuums seem to be going down as well.

fintail

Didn't buy a ticket. Maybe I will buy one on Saturday if nobody won. I'd definitely wouldn't retire, but the vocation might change. Obscure cars, yes I would have a few.