I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

A quick google shows a number of stepside LUVs out there, some the same model year, I suspect it is period correct anyway. When I saw it in person, I thought that was an unusual thing too.

A good friend of mine's dad bought a new LUV in ~1975, and used it as a DD until around 2003 - that's the climate here. He replaced it with what was probably the cheapest new Ranger he could find.

roadburner

IIRC, both the LUV and the Courier were shipped from Japan without a bed of any kind to avoid import tariffs- the beds were made in the USA.

fintail

I saw a 79-81 Toyota 4x4 in decent shape today - I think these are being saved now.

uplanderguy

Only for old-timers! Video of the Packard Predictor show car (1956) being driven by the Archivist of the Studebaker National Museum. I've seen the car several times over the years but never in motion:

andre1969

ab348 said:

I wondered why GM just didn't bring back the 265 or 283 SBC instead of developing a 267.

The 267, 305, and 350 all had the same 3.48" stroke....just different bores. The old 265 and 283 had a 3.00" bore. Could that have something to do with it, maybe? Cost-cutting by having the same bore, perhaps?

I know when Buick bought back the V-6 tooling from Jeep, they enlarged the bore to something like 3.80", same as a Buick 350. That took the displacement up slightly, from 225 CID to 231, and allowed them to use the same pistons.

If the engines all had the same stroke, does that mean they could use the same crankshaft, pushrods, etc?

texases

I think you got it, Andre, same stroke would seem to save a lot by using common parts.

uplanderguy

It just occurred to me that a lot of people here have never seen exterior shots of the Packard Predictor show car shown above, so here it is:

http://oldconceptcars.com/wp-content/uploads/packard_predictor_concept_car.jpeg

It's enormous, and full of styling clichés that were seen in the late fifties, but I'm glad it survived and is able to be viewed in person.

Mr_Shiftright

Shades of Edsel!

texases

Edsel, plus the later Pontiac 'beak', plus the Mercury reverse slant rear window, plus the GM wrap around windshield, plus....

Mr_Shiftright

Well at least the windshield idea stuck around for a while. Otherwise, the car didn't predict very much, did it?

uplanderguy

I see some later-FoMoCo clues--Edsel grille (somewhat), wraparound windshield with the Ford-style vent-window shape. Somehow it made it from E. Grand Boulevard to South Bend and survived, and I am glad about that. My guess (only that) is that when at Amelia Island last year and he was waved onto a main road, he was probably sweating bullets!

uplanderguy

Here's a rear view. It is cartoonish.

http://www.madle.org/predictor5.jpg

Mr_Shiftright

Well that's what happens when your national auto industry has no competition. Things would change come the 1960s (Golden Years?), when Detroit figured out what 25 year olds wanted.

andre1969

From the rear, I'd say that car looks like a combination of '57-58 Plymouth and '58-60 Lincoln in the tailfin area. And, it predicted the shrunken taillight of the '58 Chrysler!

berri

Truth of the matter is that a lot of designers back then moved around between companies and studios, so similarities probably shouldn't be a surprise.

explorerx4

I saw that car when I went to the Studebaker museum at few years ago.

fintail

I saw a very clean original looking black 1960 Buick 6 window sedan today, and chatted up a guy in a 1992 500SL - at 160K, it looked like it had 30K on it, great signal red on beige combo, sold new here, he even had the window sticker in the trunk. That's the kind you want to find.

berri

I like them, but I think many find the truncated 60 GM's as weird as the 59's.

uplanderguy

I used-to pretty much abhor the GM '59's, although in hindsight if I got a chance to buy at a good price, a comparable '59 or '60 Chevy, I'd pick the '59--may as well go all the way! I did like how they two-toned that year--the roof and decklid and fins would be white.

Only in a Pontiac, do I greatly prefer the '60 to the '59.

I think it was in this thread, that someone recently mentioned the June 2016 'Collectable Automobile" magazine that featured the '59's. I thumbed through it last night at a newsstand, and I was more interested in the article on Pontiac 2+2's. That Iris Mist '65 makes me weak in the knees! The turquoise '67 hardtop is neat too--only 1,768 '67 2+2's made--only one more than '64 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawks; a ridiculously low number for a GM product for sure.

I've daydreamed that I could really enjoy a Sunfire Red with white painted top, '64 2+2 with the optional wheelcovers that look like chrome-reverse wheels. I like the boomerang taillights better than the 'boomerangs' filled in on the Grand Prix that year.

kyfdx

Walking by a Mercedes SLK 350 in a parking lot. Had the top down, even though it was 41 F, at the time. And, I saw the strangest sight: A stick-shift! That's pretty obscure on a Mercedes.

stickguy

70s day today driving around (odd because it was pretty cold this AM). first a late run looking super beetle convertible. Bright blue. Looked nice and clean. Shortly followed by a late 70s downsized Grand Prix. haven't seen one of those in ages.

fintail

I might be wrong, I think those could be ordered until MY 08 or so - you could also get a manual in the sedan. I rarely see them.

kyfdx said:

Walking by a Mercedes SLK 350 in a parking lot. Had the top down, even though it was 41 F, at the time. And, I saw the strangest sight: A stick-shift! That's pretty obscure on a Mercedes.

fintail

Saw what I think was a Strosek 911 conversion, those beady-eyed little headlights aren't something you forget. Also a chrome bumper 2002 zipping down 405 at 70-75, Oregon plates - Oregonians always speed in WA, enjoying that little taste of freedom away from their weird slow speed limits.

explorerx4

2 Gen 2 Aurora's and 2 924's, all within 10 minutes. Also, a Gen 1 740.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I used-to pretty much abhor the GM '59's, although in hindsight if I got a chance to buy at a good price, a comparable '59 or '60 Chevy, I'd pick the '59--may as well go all the way! I did like how they two-toned that year--the roof and decklid and fins would be white.

Only in a Pontiac, do I greatly prefer the '60 to the '59.

With me, it's pretty much a tossup between '59 and '60 when it comes to GM's cars. For 1960 I prefer Olds and Chevy, for '59 I prefer Buick and Pontiac, and with Cadillac I don't really care...not too crazy about either one. Although, I guess if forced, I might go with a '59 for the Caddy...might as well go all the way, as you said!

kyfdx

fintail said:

I might be wrong, I think those could be ordered until MY 08 or so - you could also get a manual in the sedan. I rarely see them.

kyfdx said:

Walking by a Mercedes SLK 350 in a parking lot. Had the top down, even though it was 41 F, at the time. And, I saw the strangest sight: A stick-shift! That's pretty obscure on a Mercedes.

Yeah.. the C-Class was available with stick for quite some time. This is the first 2nd generation SLK that I've seen with a stick. I don't even look, any more. Only because the top was down. I'd guess the take rate on manuals was about 1/100 (if that).

andre1969

Last week, I went for a walk and spotted an early 80's Mercury Lynx RS. Abandoned, apparently for awhile, in the woods along a local hiker/biker trail that used to be a railroad right-of-way. I thought I knew about all the old abandoned cars around here, but this particular morning, at this time of year, I guess the morning sun hit it just right and the reflection caught my eye. Anyway, here it is, in its full glory...





I'm actually surprised the taillights are still intact, since most of the other easily broken stuff has been smashed out. I was sort of tempted to pull them off, in case anybody ever needed them in the future. But, I guess there aren't too many people out there restoring cars like this! Sometimes my hoarder mentality kicks in...

imidazol97

What is it? You could always sell the taillights on Ebay.

fintail

Wow, those are virtually extinct now. I saw an early 90s Escort GT last week and thought I hadn't seen one in awhile, this is a different level of unicorn. 1983-85 only, I think.

ab348

I remember when they came out and I went to the dealer to check them out shortly after introduction day. The ones in the showroom were very nicely trimmed inside. I actually quite liked the original Lynx/Escort though I never drove one. I heard they were quite sluggish.

uplanderguy

When the Escort first came out in the U.S., there were only two-door hatch and five-door wagon bodystyles available. The four-door sedan with hatch came out later.

A guy I worked with bought a new '81 Escort wagon, white with red interior. Even as a GM guy, I liked it. It wasn't real old, though, when the trans went out. There'd be a 'hung in neutral' point, but he just kept driving it like it would go away. (He was an older guy and not much of a car guy.)

I never liked the looks of the EXP and LN7 though. And a loaded one could be upwards of $9K, big money then. Although, the first-year Cavalier, all loaded up, could be about that much too, and with that awful 1.8 engine.

iluvmysephia1

First car I bought on time was a '86 Merc Lynx SW. White, automatic tranny and the car was not without its flaws. Blew a headgasket one day with Chicago relatives in the car over on the Olympic Peninsula. Tripped through the Olympic Game Farm, started back towards our home in Stanwood, and, well...stutter...stutter. I lopped home with it but had to stick it in the shop right away. Few more surprises while I owned it - it's upper steering column caught fire upon startup! Yes, faulty ignition getup. I could go on but I'll save ya the grief.

Michaell

I almost bought the rare Escort diesel when I was ready to graduate college in '85. My '79 Pontiac Sunbird had been totaled in an accident with about 2 months left before graduation.

Folks thought it was unwise to take on the burden of a car payment without the guarantee of employment after graduation, so I took the insurance money and bought a used Olds Omega.

Not sure which choice would have been worse, though I ended up getting an '85 Accord LX after I graduated and found a job.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I never liked the looks of the EXP and LN7 though. And a loaded one could be upwards of $9K, big money then. Although, the first-year Cavalier, all loaded up, could be about that much too, and with that awful 1.8 engine.

The front-end styling looked like they were designed to have hidden headlights, then at the last minute the bean counters cancelled them. What they ended up with was very unattractive. The rest of the car was OK for the times.

andre1969

I thought the later model of EXP, with the more generic, Escort-like flush headlights, wasn't too bad looking. But the earlier models are just too bug/frog-eyed looking for my tastes. If they would've had hidden headlights, though, that would have made a world of difference!

sda

Michaell said:

I almost bought the rare Escort diesel when I was ready to graduate college in '85. My '79 Pontiac Sunbird had been totaled in an accident with about 2 months left before graduation.

Folks thought it was unwise to take on the burden of a car payment without the guarantee of employment after graduation, so I took the insurance money and bought a used Olds Omega.

Not sure which choice would have been worse, though I ended up getting an '85 Accord LX after I graduated and found a job.

I drove a 76 Sunbird coupe all during my college years. It was a V6 with the 5speed and a/c. At the time I thought it was a decent car. It was tough on clutches, which wore out between 30-40k, like clock work. It is the only car that I've had to replace a clutch. Traded it in 83 for a used 80 Mazda 626 coupe.

sda

uplanderguy said:

When the Escort first came out in the U.S., there were only two-door hatch and five-door wagon bodystyles available. The four-door sedan with hatch came out later.

A guy I worked with bought a new '81 Escort wagon, white with red interior. Even as a GM guy, I liked it. It wasn't real old, though, when the trans went out. There'd be a 'hung in neutral' point, but he just kept driving it like it would go away. (He was an older guy and not much of a car guy.)

I never liked the looks of the EXP and LN7 though. And a loaded one could be upwards of $9K, big money then. Although, the first-year Cavalier, all loaded up, could be about that much too, and with that awful 1.8 engine.

That 1.8 litre, as Cadillac described it was a real dog. Weak on hp, didn't like to rev, wasn't that economical. I bought a used 82 Cimarron in Jan85 with the 4 speed overdrive manual transmission., If you hit any type of hill 4th gear was too tall (overdrive) and the car could not maintain speed. That meant downshifting to third and enduring the noisy engine up the incline. I liked the blue leather interior that it had, it was quite handsome and European looking.

Michaell

sda said:

Michaell said:

I almost bought the rare Escort diesel when I was ready to graduate college in '85. My '79 Pontiac Sunbird had been totaled in an accident with about 2 months left before graduation.

Folks thought it was unwise to take on the burden of a car payment without the guarantee of employment after graduation, so I took the insurance money and bought a used Olds Omega.

Not sure which choice would have been worse, though I ended up getting an '85 Accord LX after I graduated and found a job.

I drove a 76 Sunbird coupe all during my college years. It was a V6 with the 5speed and a/c. At the time I thought it was a decent car. It was tough on clutches, which wore out between 30-40k, like clock work. It is the only car that I've had to replace a clutch. Traded it in 83 for a used 80 Mazda 626 coupe.

My '79 had the "Iron Duke" 4-cyl and a 4-speed manual. Bought it as I was ready to graduate HS in '82. Had less than 12,000 miles on it. Drove it back and forth to AZ a few times (attended college in Phoenix). I was involved in an accident not long after I got there and it never ran right after that. Body work was done, but I suspect there were some mechanical issues that never got sorted.

In fact, I was on my way to a mechanic to have the transmission looked at when I was involved in the fatal accident with it.

No A/C and vinyl seats in 115 degree heat in the summer. What was I thinking?

fintail

This afternoon in the rain spotted a Granada coupe - forgot to note the headlight details. It looked to be in god condition and definitely had a burble to it, I assume a 302, and sitting on old looking wheels. Then I saw an 86-87 Cavalier Z24 convertible, white with a white top, looked to be immaculate.

roadburner

I remember a Road and Track review of the new 1982 Ford and Lincoln Mercury cars. The five speeds in the Escorts and EXPs had a shift pattern that put fifth next to fourth:




The writer also mentioned that he asked an engineer why the pedals in the manual cars weren't set up to heel-toe; "What's heel-toe?" was the engineer's response. Before the R&T writer could explain, the engineer was called away to address a much more urgent problem- another journalist had discovered that if you pushed down the Town Car's hood ornament in a certain way it would not pop back up into position. The writer noted that every engineer on site was involved in examining and solving that critical issue.

andre1969

roadburner said:

I remember a Road and Track review of the new 1982 Ford and Lincoln Mercury cars. The five speeds in the Escorts and EXPs had a shift pattern that put fifth next to fourth:

Wouldn't that pattern also make it easy to accidentally shift into reverse, when you're really aiming for first?

stickguy

Not with the lockout. Pretty common layout for a 4 speed. I would probably try to back up in 5th gear though, and would never remember it was down there on the highway!

andre1969

Interesting. Is there any rationale why it would be common to put Reverse in the upper left on a 4-speed, but in the lower right on a 5-speed? I remember when I was a kid, asking my uncle, or maybe it was my Granddad, why Reverse was in the lower right, rather than the upper left...I thought that it would be less dangerous to shift into reverse at a lower speed than a high one. But, I remember him telling me that at high speed, you'd really have to muscle it to get it to go into reverse from 5th, because of how fast the gears were spinning. You'd get a little grinding, but that would be it. But, that it would be easy to accidentally shift into reverse at a lower speed, and get it to engage.

I don't really have enough experience with a manual shift to know, though. The only ones I ever drove were a mid-80's Datsun pickup with a 5-speed, and a 1976 Jeep pickup with a 4-speed, and both of those were 20+ years ago. Actually, I take that back...I did have to move my former house-mate's 2005 Silverado, which was a stick shift. I think it was a 6-speed. I don't remember much, except that it seemed harder to stall out than the older transmissions.

stickguy

Well our 4 speed Volvo had reverse up and left. That is my 4 speed personal sample size! All the 5 speeds were right and down. I forget where it was on the 6 speed civic I almost bought.

kyfdx

If you put it lower right on a 5-speed, it keeps it to three slots, left to right.. That's why RB noted that picture.. 4 slots, when you could do it in three.

On a 4-speed, doesn't really matter... you are going to end up with 3 slots, no matter where you put it.

Having reverse up and to the left probably started with 3-speeds (on the tree, too), with 1st gear down, below reverse, which kept it to 2-slots.

texases

My '83 GTI had four slots:

roadburner

texases said:

My '83 GTI had four slots:

That's the pattern my ti has.

Mr_Shiftright

That's the MINI 6-speed pattern, too. I would have rather had R down I like the logic of the stick going in the direction you are going/looking.

stevedebi

My 92 Ranger had three columns, with the 5th gear to the front right and the R on the bottom right.

sda

kyfdx said:

If you put it lower right on a 5-speed, it keeps it to three slots, left to right.. That's why RB noted that picture.. 4 slots, when you could do it in three.

On a 4-speed, doesn't really matter... you are going to end up with 3 slots, no matter where you put it.

Having reverse up and to the left probably started with 3-speeds (on the tree, too), with 1st gear down, below reverse, which kept it to 2-slots.

My 76 Sunbird had a Borg-Warner 5 speed transmission. The shift pattern was not your typical H as Reverse was as at the top left of the H (with no lock out), 1st gear at bottom left of H. 2nd you had to pass thru the neutral gate and shift up to the top right of the H, 3rd shift down, 4th again thru the neutral gate and to the right, 5th directly below 4th. It was an awkward set up and the gates were very narrow so it was easy to shift to 4th when 2nd was what was desired, or grind gears with a horrible metallic sound. I think Datsun had a similar shift pattern on their 310. Though I never selected Reverse in error, it would have been an easy mistake to make. It was a balky and noisy transmission as well. GM used it in some other vehicles. I know you could get the 260 V8 with the same 5 speed in the Olds Omega and Cutlass, and Olds Cutlass 260 V8 Diesel, though I don't think it had many takers.