I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

tifighter

Yeah after writing that post, I looked a little to see if there were any for sale out of curiosity. There's a C36 with under 80k miles in AZ that looks very presentable for $8900. Doesn't seem like they can really go any lower. As for the CLK, they seem to be more in the 12-15K range for similar miles. I saw a 2-owner car in OR with 40k miles for $14K. When you consider its main competitor was the M3 and look at their prices, the CLK55 starts to look pretty good.

fintail

I'd say 10K for a genuinely good (not concours perfect, but no needs) C36 sounds right, and low teens for a CLK55. Both probably won't go much lower if at all.

I had the E55 for 7 years, it was a pretty solid car. Maintenance wasn't cheap, but it never stranded me, and was a great cruiser. In the end, I knew I already had one "forever car", and wanted to experience some others. Immaculate ones are no more than around 15K now, a lot of car for the money, as their only issues seem to be rust in harsh climates, and transmissions if the owner skimps on maintenance.

sda

What appeared to be a nice stock 1955 Pontiac 2dr hardtop, two tone white upper and a turquoise bottom. It was on a flat bed truck turning into a local restoration garage. Then I saw the hood. I think there must have been an under hood fire, the hood paint was all burned off on the right side. Hopefully it can be repaired.

tifighter

@fintail good info. I sorta toy with the idea of a pet third car. I have a garage space. When it comes to MB, the CLK55 sort of appeals to me as does a nice R129. I feel the ship has sailed for a good R107 at what I'd consider sane third car pricing for me.

stickguy

I would like a toy once I am done with paying for college. But really need to move first. I have 2 garage bays, so a 3rd car means one has to live outside. and I have nowhere to park other than the driveway, blocking a garage door. so that means my regular car has to live outside, and I hate doing that. So the only answer really is to move and get a 3 car garage!

fintail

Yeah, truly nice 107s and 129s are going to be more than 15K now, that's for a car where nothing is needed to have it at local show quality. The best of the best 107s will be a bit more, and there seems to be enough of a cult around the later 129s to keep them from hitting rock bottom too. The upside to that is one could have a nice car, drive it and care for it, keep it for years, and get their money back.

There was also a CLK55 cabrio, soft top only, much less common, if you want a convertible. They don't carry a huge premium.

tifighter said:

@fintail good info. I sorta toy with the idea of a pet third car. I have a garage space. When it comes to MB, the CLK55 sort of appeals to me as does a nice R129. I feel the ship has sailed for a good R107 at what I'd consider sane third car pricing for me.

berri

Can you add some concrete and expand the width of the driveway? I see many people with extra cars do that.

Mr_Shiftright

tifighter said:

@fintail good info. I sorta toy with the idea of a pet third car. I have a garage space. When it comes to MB, the CLK55 sort of appeals to me as does a nice R129. I feel the ship has sailed for a good R107 at what I'd consider sane third car pricing for me.

Not at all! An R107 should cost about the same as a nice R129, except perhaps for a very clean 560SL,which might be stronger in the market. The only R107 that's really going anywhere is the early 350 with chrome bumpers and a pristine 560SL. I expect the 380s and 450s to stay in the dirt for some time with "drivers" under or about $10K. A 500SL, which is a better car in every conceivable way, might run just a bit higher.

fintail

Not old, but not new and definitely unusual - saw an ELR and a Tesla roadster.

Also got behind a clownshoe M coupe. Of course, zero turn signal use and weird dawdly-distracted driving. I pulled a jerk move and went around it even though I was turning in a block. If you're lost, pull over and check your map, if the car is having hiccups, turn on the hazards.

ab348

This is a lot of money but it sure is a lot of car. Pretty colors too. I always thought this was near the peak of Bill Mitchell design.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/buick/riviera/1912521.html

tjc78

That Riv is beautiful.  I'd take that in a minute.  

fintail

Stylish. It aint cheap, but you probably won't create one like that from a tired car for the money.

Mr_Shiftright

That's not a bad price if the car is really nice top to bottom. It would be good to view the chassis underneath and see what that's like. Engine bay needs detailing but not bad really.

tifighter

Mr_Shiftright said:

tifighter said:

@fintail good info. I sorta toy with the idea of a pet third car. I have a garage space. When it comes to MB, the CLK55 sort of appeals to me as does a nice R129. I feel the ship has sailed for a good R107 at what I'd consider sane third car pricing for me.

Not at all! An R107 should cost about the same as a nice R129, except perhaps for a very clean 560SL,which might be stronger in the market. The only R107 that's really going anywhere is the early 350 with chrome bumpers and a pristine 560SL. I expect the 380s and 450s to stay in the dirt for some time with "drivers" under or about $10K. A 500SL, which is a better car in every conceivable way, might run just a bit higher.

Yeah I wasn't clear. For me, R107 means 560SL and R129 means SL500. Around here, there is a lot of choice for very nice low mile 500's from $10-15K, but to find a comparable 560 you'll pay more. In some cases, a lot more. Watching BaT, the SL600 is starting the swing upwards as well.

roadburner

ab348 said:

This is a lot of money but it sure is a lot of car. Pretty colors too. I always thought this was near the peak of Bill Mitchell design.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/buick/riviera/1912521.html

Looks much like the one I bought in 1979 for $5.

Mr_Shiftright

tifighter said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

tifighter said:

@fintail good info. I sorta toy with the idea of a pet third car. I have a garage space. When it comes to MB, the CLK55 sort of appeals to me as does a nice R129. I feel the ship has sailed for a good R107 at what I'd consider sane third car pricing for me.

Not at all! An R107 should cost about the same as a nice R129, except perhaps for a very clean 560SL,which might be stronger in the market. The only R107 that's really going anywhere is the early 350 with chrome bumpers and a pristine 560SL. I expect the 380s and 450s to stay in the dirt for some time with "drivers" under or about $10K. A 500SL, which is a better car in every conceivable way, might run just a bit higher.

Yeah I wasn't clear. For me, R107 means 560SL and R129 means SL500. Around here, there is a lot of choice for very nice low mile 500's from $10-15K, but to find a comparable 560 you'll pay more. In some cases, a lot more. Watching BaT, the SL600 is starting the swing upwards as well.

I can see why. A clean low miles 560SL is soooo much better a car than the 450SL that precedes it. It took Benz a while, but they finally "got it right" with that car.

My problem (and it is MY problem) with the W107s or W129s is that they are, to me, not very exciting to drive. They're fun for like an afternoon and then I'm really done. Which is too bad, there are some whoppin' good deals on 500SLs right now.

For some reason they just don't seem to have the "personality" of a Pagoda or a 300SL or 190SL. You know like with a Porsche, the 1970s cars all the way through the late 90s car have a commonality about them, but Mercedes have a visual likeness but not so much in how they drive.

fintail

Definitely don't have the personality, due to tech and related refinements, and how the SL evolved from a fairly brutal advanced supercar to a cheery 4cyl roadster to a somewhat dainty but classic 6cyl roadster, then to the (mostly) V8 boulevard cruiser that has been for the past 45 years. With that lack of personality comes immensely lower price, and easier living. If one wants open top relaxation and not as much sport, the newer cars are still worthy.

uplanderguy

That is a beauty. I assume the wood wheel (or wood-appearing wheel) was an option. I love the car, but if I could would probably take that pinstripe off, which I've never seen on one and I'd be surprised if that was an option.

That said, what a beautiful car, in a beautiful color, with a beautiful interior!

ab348

Pretty sure that steering wheel is aftermarket. The one thing I would change. Original is probably cracked but would be worth repairing.

sda

ab348 said:

This is a lot of money but it sure is a lot of car. Pretty colors too. I always thought this was near the peak of Bill Mitchell design.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/buick/riviera/1912521.html

I like that, a lot. A friend bought a '67 Riv GS about 15 years ago to fix up and sell. It was a deceivingly quick car. One thing I didn't realize until I was researching GM's use of X frames is that the Riv used the X frame until 1970 and was the last GM car to use it.

omarman

Spotted online today looking for Mannix cars.

Mike Connors and friend ca 2010.

berri

There used to be so many attractive shades of blue. Now it seems to be mostly dark blue ink or an occasional silver blue.

Was that green Dart owned by Mike Connors? If so, alright an old Mopar man

uplanderguy

I'm a sucker for the old '60's shades of turquoise or aqua--like that Riviera above. I particularly liked the deep turquoises GM offered. That's one reason I was pretty ecstatic when I was buying a new '81 car that GM finally brought back colors of that nature, and I bought one--light turquoise roof and hood over dark turquoise everything-else, and light turquoise cloth interior. I loved that car. Monte Carlo.

ab348

omarman said:

Spotted online today looking for Mannix cars.

Mike Connors and friend ca 2010.

Link seems broken, all I get is a Photobucket main page.

kyfdx

I can see the picture

ab348

Turned off Adblocker Plus thinking that was blocking the picture, but no go still. Weird.

sda

uplanderguy said:

That is a beauty. I assume the wood wheel (or wood-appearing wheel) was an option. I love the car, but if I could would probably take that pinstripe off, which I've never seen on one and I'd be surprised if that was an option.

That said, what a beautiful car, in a beautiful color, with a beautiful interior!

Were the side marker lights an option? They were not required until '68.

uplanderguy

That's an excellent point. "Cornering lamps" are listed in the brochure as an option, but in my memory, GM's cornering lights of that period included a white lamp on the front fenders only.

Hmmm.

I love the car, and it looks so close to original/authentic, but now, that steering wheel, those lights and the pinstripe just jump out at me and are things about any Riviera guy is guaranteed to bring up when he sees the car. Of course, if you don't care about that, that would be indeed understandable and it is still a beautiful automobile. At least it doesn't have for me what is the unforgivable 'nameplates inches off' issue that I see pretty regularly in old cars for sale.

kyfdx

ab348 said:

Turned off Adblocker Plus thinking that was blocking the picture, but no go still. Weird.

Try this link:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/hoyvin/Postpics 2017/Mannix_Dart_zpsdlf8he3s.jpg

ab348

uplanderguy said:

That's an excellent point. "Cornering lamps" are listed in the brochure as an option, but in my memory, GM's cornering lights of that period included a white lamp on the front fenders only.

Hmmm.

I love the car, and it looks so close to original/authentic, but now, that steering wheel, those lights and the pinstripe just jump out at me and are things about any Riviera guy is guaranteed to bring up when he sees the car. Of course, if you don't care about that, that would be indeed understandable and it is still a beautiful automobile. At least it doesn't have for me what is the unforgivable 'nameplates inches off' issue that I see pretty regularly in old cars for sale.

The side marker lights are really odd now that you have pointed it out. They are not the ones the Riv used in '68 or '69 either. I don't know where these would have come from. So someone decided somewhere along the way that it needed marker lights, sourced those from some other car, cut the fenders and quarter panels to make them fit, wired them up, and then painted to match (or perhaps had the whole car painted afterwards).

I wonder what they were thinking.

bhill2

Does anyone have the capability of looking up the VIN # of a car of this vintage? A wild idea entered my mind (it is not the first one). Is it possible that the car was not originally sold in the US? I have seen domestic cars sold in other countries that had markers not mandated here at the time.

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes I can plug the VIN into a subscribed auction database and something might come up. You can also google the VIN and you might catch something. Certain year Mopars and Fords can deliver reports if you pay people for them. There's the Marti Report for Fords, Pontiac Historic Services--also Porsche, Mercedes and Rolls have records going way back. DMVs dont' keep VINs that old unless they are currently registered, in which case they won't tell you anything much.

fintail

Remember, no standardized VIN until 1981, anything before that is more of a serial number and not technically a VIN. I think many if not most makers can have a car accurately decoded by that serial number, giving options, colors, build date and facility, etc.

Today's sighting: red Porsche 356 from some distance, couldn't see more detail

bhill2

fintail said:

Remember, no standardized VIN until 1981, anything before that is more of a serial number and not technically a VIN. I think many if not most makers can have a car accurately decoded by that serial number, giving options, colors, build date and facility, etc.

Yes, that was my problem. I knew the VIN was not a standardized one and in the time I spent, I failed to find a specialized site (e.g., a classic GM car enthusiast site) that provided the info. I confess I did not look extensively; I decided to check if anyone here had already found one. But it was just a WAG in the first place.

fintail

It might be in a specialized database somewhere. I don't recall seeing a Riviera number decoded before.

I wonder if that car even had an official export model by then, or if they were all privately done. By that time, much Detroit iron was just too big for most overseas locations, but a handful were likely sold new in Europe and Oz. Seems like a lot of work to delete a side marker light. Export models did get special colored lenses.

bhill2 said:

Yes, that was my problem. I knew the VIN was not a standardized one and in the time I spent, I failed to find a specialized site (e.g., a classic GM car enthusiast site) that provided the info. I confess I did not look extensively; I decided to check if anyone here had already found one. But it was just a WAG in the first place.

uplanderguy

I have always enjoyed that production orders are available for Studebaker cars and trucks from the '30's on, and from '60 on, shipping certificates showing the name and street address of dealer are available (sometimes the destinations on the production order and shipping certificate are different), and from '60 on one can also find out the name and address of the original owner. I've done this for cars of friends of mine when I was out at the Studebaker National Museum archives several years back. My friend's '64 Hawk was bought new in CA by a guy who was born in 1892! They also have a card catalog of all dealers; one by state then city, and one by dealer name, and the cards show the span of operation dates. For an orphan, we're lucky that stuff exists.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, Studebaker has a really good database for an American manufacturers. Most U.S. automakers just trashed their own paper history.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's an article from Hemmings you guys might enjoy, about the confluence of American/Italian styling:

Italian/American: Who Begat Whom?

berri

Interesting article. I recall Nash using Italian design in the 50's and I believe many of Virgil Exner's show cars were crafted in Italy, along with the bodies for many of the Imperial limousines.

Mr_Shiftright

A little hard to read because of all the long sentences. Maybe it was a translation?

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

A little hard to read because of all the long sentences. Maybe it was a translation?

Yeah, it was way too long and could have used an editor, or be broken up into chapters. I gave up.

berri

Cliff's Notes ?

ab348

Great googly-moogly, I love this:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/impala/1913364.html







The seller of this '68 Nova, OTOH, must be on drugs:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/nova/1907537.html

uplanderguy

I love it too. I think the '67 has the best full-size Chevy instrument panel...ever.

I didn't read the ad, but I can tell all the factory gauges have been replaced with aftermarket, and I wish it had the factory wheels instead of the Corvette wheels which were not available on the Impala SS. Looks like the clear plastic cover over the gauges is gone.

All that said, it's a striking car. Great interior.

uplanderguy

RE.: That '68 Nova--pricing is ridiculous, but it looks dead-to-nuts original and/or authentic, and I always appreciate that.

Funny that it has the Custom Exterior package, but the plain interior.

Hey, you don't have to worry to check to see if it's had the V8 motor mount recall done! LOL

This is the last year they called the car a "Chevy II", which I find sort-of interesting.

fintail

Impala is amusing - don't touch the surfaces on the floors and frame because originality, but remove the original gauges for modern digital ones to answer a question nobody asked, and put it on Corvette wheels. Cool rare car anyway.

tjc78

Nice car, but I'm not feeling the Turbine wheels. It just doesn't look right.

sda

I like the Impala and share the same observations already mentioned. The Nova just doesn't do anything for me, though if it does have the 6k mileage, that is something. I noticed the horizontal heater controls to the left of the steering wheel, lower dash instead of the vertical controls on the upper right in later years.

sda

A early 90's Chevy Metro, medium green 2 dr with Washington state plates! I would not have wanted to drive that thing cross country.

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

RE.: That '68 Nova--pricing is ridiculous, but it looks dead-to-nuts original and/or authentic, and I always appreciate that.

Funny that it has the Custom Exterior package, but the plain interior.

Hey, you don't have to worry to check to see if it's had the V8 motor mount recall done! LOL

This is the last year they called the car a "Chevy II", which I find sort-of interesting.

Good candidate for a mild make-over--turn it into a "street sleeper". Car should sell around $12K--$15K, but not quickly.