I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

Much cheaper, but to be fair, those aren't pristine super low miles cars, nor are they manuals.

But no doubt, when you hit 30K and want a classic BMW, an E30 M3 (OK, those will be more)/E28 M5/E24 M6 has to be tempting.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes but remember that buyers set the price not dealers. Besides, when you start asking $30K for an old car like that, buyers can choose some very tasty BMWs at that price point, like M3s, M6s,

I would peg a manual transmission car as being worth less. I don't see why you can't find the 850 coupe of your dreams for $15-16K and clean drivers at $10K. It's certainly a buyer's market on these.

stickguy

interesting. Brute is an aftermarket conversion on a Wrangler unlimited turning it into a pick up truck. I'm surprised it took this long and Jeep still has not come out with a factory version.

Mr_Shiftright

Pricey!

https://secure.aev-conversions.com/shop/vehicle/tj-wrangler/brute-kit

fintail

Most BMW fanboys I know cling to the manual like it is some kind of macho thing. I think many of the people who would actually buy one of those pretty money pits would pay extra to have it, even if it doesn't make the car more enjoyable.

As most of them don't seem to be going anywhere pricewise in the past 5+ years, no doubt, nobody is lining up for one.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I would peg a manual transmission car as being worth less. I don't see why you can't find the 850 coupe of your dreams for $15-16K and clean drivers at $10K. It's certainly a buyer's market on these.

fintail

I attended the local MBCA gathering today. Pics to follow, but this unusually-hued thing was spotted in a lot near the show:




I also saw this on the road - Woodlites, nice:

Mr_Shiftright

I drove a manual 7 series of that era, and it wasn't that much fun.

fintail

In case anyone wants to see, link to the MBCA pics

Some nice cars there - high quality Adenauer won the best of show.

stickguy

out driving around, a very nice looking period brown Pagoda MB. Did not see the badging on it, but the top was down.

berri

Nice pictures Fin. When I was a kid an uncle had a friend back in the late 50's and early 60's who drove around in a MB Adenauer (spelling?) . It fit him because he looked like Mr. Clean (but he was a more colorful character).

fintail

Thanks. I've never seen the car before - has to be a labor of love, as those things are expensive to restore.

Mr_Shiftright

I really like those full-size cabriolets.

uplanderguy

Unless I missed it, what year was that Adenauer? Weren't some of them four-door hardtops? I remember seeing the '58 Studebaker-Packard-MB newspaper insert that shows what I'm almost certain is a four-door hardtop Adenauer.

I sure can't throw any shade because my favorite old car would be a '64 Gran Turismo Hawk (with blower and half-vinyl top), but that Adenauer still has distinct pre-war styling doesn't it?

Mr_Shiftright

The term "Adenauer" is a nickname and is generally applied to the 300 series 4-door cars produced from 1951-1962. They came in many different body styles, including a pillarless 4-door and also a 4-door Cabriolet D.

fintail

I want to say it was a 54, but I a not 100% certain. Starting in 57, the Adenauer/300 moved to a 4 door HT design, which existed until the end of the model run in 1962. I think the switch to FI occurred with the 57 models. Definitely prewar styling, as was the case of most German cars in 1951 (although the car was new, not a prewar carry over), and I think for something as expensive as one of these, it was seen as a positive, kind of like Rolls-Royce. By 1960, these were over 10K, not an inexpensive car.

A HT model is fairly striking, too:

uplanderguy said:

Unless I missed it, what year was that Adenauer? Weren't some of them four-door hardtops? I remember seeing the '58 Studebaker-Packard-MB newspaper insert that shows what I'm almost certain is a four-door hardtop Adenauer.

I sure can't throw any shade because my favorite old car would be a '64 Gran Turismo Hawk (with blower and half-vinyl top), but that Adenauer still has distinct pre-war styling doesn't it?

xwesx

I like the wagon in this pic:




As well as the brown one a few further down... though the wheels on it are atrocious!

fintail

That's an E500 4Matic wagon, unusual car and color. 2004-06.

The brown one is a special order E63, I agree about the wheels. If I had that, it would be stock. Owner bought it new and I hope is enjoying it, as when it is 120K new, it can fall a bit.

xwesx said:

I like the wagon in this pic:

As well as the brown one a few further down... though the wheels on it are atrocious!

Mr_Shiftright

That Adenauer in the USA would have cost about the same as a 1960 Cadillac Biarritz convertible.

berri

So back then which would have depreciated more rapidly 3-5 years out after buying it new? I'm also guessing the Biarritz drop top is worth more today.

fintail

An Adenauer cabrio would be worth more today, I think, but not a sedan - a nice 60 Adenauer sedan might be 50K, but the convertible will be into 6 figures.

I suspect by 1965, both of them were pretty passe and well-depreciated.

uplanderguy

It's hard for me to think that a German automobile with deliberately-prewar styling would've been seen as a positive, at least in 1950's U.S.A.

I do find the older styling with four-door hardtop roofline interesting.

fintail

Funny or crazy or weird thing, I think more people are a fan of that aesthetic than they may want to admit. Even Pontons, with their tall grilles and distinct fenders, have kind of a 40s air to them - and those had no problem selling, I think a Ponton cabrio was a pretty chic thing to drive in 1959 Hollywood.

I think the HT cars are interesting too - the design, although old fashioned, is also of the 50s, with harder angles, and almost kind of vestigial fins at the end of the rear fenders. I have seen a couple late run examples in the same color as my car. A blue Adenauer hardtop with wide whites and the same color as my car would be attractive.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

An Adenauer cabrio would be worth more today, I think, but not a sedan - a nice 60 Adenauer sedan might be 50K, but the convertible will be into 6 figures.

I suspect by 1965, both of them were pretty passe and well-depreciated.

A nice MB 300 Cabriolet D should bring at least $150,000 and a Biarritz "could" bring $150K but it would have to be fully restored. So apples to apples, the Cabriolet D would be worth a bit more, but not drastically so. An Adenauer sedan would be lucky to bring $40K at auction. Naturally a car with an interesting provenance could do somewhat better.

fintail

And there's the biggest apples to apples idea in the world - comparing closed cars vs open cars.

For an Adenauer, I have to imagine the smartest money would be buying the nicest one possible, as they have to be more expensive to restore than a neglected 19th century manor house in Britain.

Mr_Shiftright said:

A nice MB 300 Cabriolet D should bring at least $150,000 and a Biarritz "could" bring $150K but it would have to be fully restored. So apples to apples, the Cabriolet D would be worth a bit more, but not drastically so. An Adenauer sedan would be lucky to bring $40K at auction. Naturally a car with an interesting provenance could do somewhat better.

PF_Flyer

'63 Plymouth Belvedere from this afternoon's background movie

berri

Still a few Exner styling touches. Enough to stick out I think.

fintail

Must be "In the Heat of the Night"

PF_Flyer

fintail said:

Must be "In the Heat of the Night"

Yep, fair amount of "iron" on display in it

iluvmysephia1

Still like Exner's "final saving act" 1962 Dodge Dart. Nice.

fintail

1962 Dart from an all time classic movie:

uplanderguy

It's a Mad times six (or whatever) World?

fintail

Yep, 4 Mads

With the pretty Impala bubbletop that crashes along with the Dart:



Other 62 Darts in the same movie:

iluvmysephia1

It's an odd design, but I like it. I do like that red Dart convertible, too.

berri

Good movie. Good Pictures!

I like the 62 Fury and Polara too. But maybe that 62 red Dodge convertible appeal is that Jane Hathaway, the banker's secretary, drove one in the Beverly Hillbillies

iluvmysephia1

A blast from my 60's TV past - Jane Hathaway!

kyfdx

Let me tell y'all a story about a man named Jed....

fintail

IMCDB, still one of the best parts of the web.

Looks like Miss Hathaway's first car on the show was a Plymouth, before she moved to Dodge in 63:



Even in the 70s, as the show ended, she drove a Dodge convertible:

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

It's a Mad times six (or whatever) World?

My friend had one of those. We used to call it "The Flying Enchilada".

fintail

As luck would have it, a Youtube channel I have never seen popped up in my feed tonight. In it are some IAMMMMW clips.

Here are some Darts in action. Seeing that 56 Ford convertible crash-parked by Phil Silvers really made me cringe when I was a kid:

https://youtu.be/jEjhjr5Rq3Q

And the red Dart convertible:

https://youtu.be/O0aOrjTsQsg

Lots of cool cars in both clips. There's a red and white 60 Ford identical looking to my dad's car in the first clip.

stickguy

Drove from jersey to NC today. A few oddballs on the highway driving. An early Datsun lil hustler PU. and wedge triumph on 95 in Maryland.

ab348

I had no idea there was such a thing as a M-B Ponton coupe:

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-mercedes-benz-220se-2/

Rather looks like a Studebaker from some angles.

fintail

Cabrio too. Both could also be had in two tone paint. The engine in the 220SE models is quite similar to the engine in my fintail. I think these were seen as pretty elegant in the late 50s:





They also have interiors with lovely woodwork, no doubt insanely expensive to restore - the car in the BAT link appears to be complete inside, but this can't be cheap:



Two tone is less common:



Studebaker connection:



Nice familiar color:

ab348

The BaT car was listed on Hemmings for $74K not long ago, no sale.

The picture of the interior seems to show a woodgrain upper dash, can't tell if it is actual wood or painted faux-woodgrain.

I prefer the fintail styling to this body type.

fintail

74K for the BAT car is far too expensive, overpriced by maybe 40-50%. The wood is real, veneer of course, with many odd curves and angles. Thousands upon thousands can be spent to restore it.

Pontons are very "1953" to my eyes, where a fintail is "1959".

uplanderguy

At that point in time, I think it was unusual for cars to have chrome around the wheel openings; only cars I can think of at the time were the Golden Hawk and this car.

I saw one of these on a trailer in Oxford, OH, where my daughter goes to college, about a year ago.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

74K for the BAT car is far too expensive, overpriced by maybe 40-50%. The wood is real, veneer of course, with many odd curves and angles. Thousands upon thousands can be spent to restore it.

Pontons are very "1953" to my eyes, where a fintail is "1959".

Looks like the bidding should stop around $45K--$48, and even then you are being a bit generous.

It is a pretty rare car and having FI is a real plus---but it's never been a "hot"collectible and values have remained rather flat. Charming car in its own way, but you'd best buy the nicest one you can afford.

fintail

I was thinking 45K-ish for the BAT car, yeah. Even as complete as it is, I bet the interior could consume 10K alone, and who knows what else is there. Coupes bring a fraction of the money brought by cabrios, FI cabrios easily getting into 6 figures. That being said, for 45K, it might be a nice driver and will always be welcome at MB events.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Looks like the bidding should stop around $45K--$48, and even then you are being a bit generous.

It is a pretty rare car and having FI is a real plus---but it's never been a "hot"collectible and values have remained rather flat. Charming car in its own way, but you'd best buy the nicest one you can afford.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, if that were a cabriolet in a similar sort of "driver" condition, it would probably bid up to near or just over $100K. Oddly enough, the earlier 220S is worth about 20% more. Don't ask me why...

fintail

220S price might just be an anomaly due to some high quality restorations or something. No reason in my eyes to want a carb car over FI - the FI system is generally reliable and needs a lot less maintenance. I am thankful my fintail is an SE rather than a dual carb S, much easier to live with.

berri

Back when MB styling stood out from the crowd!

Mr_Shiftright

SEs are much better to drive and to own.