I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

I was thinking a quarter mil seems rich for a malaise era Lancia, but with the Group B link, it'll go there no doubt. I remember when that kind of money might get you a 300SL roadster, a few Speedsters, 8 nice 190SLs, etc.

A few more from that auction:

I've always liked these

Definitely have hit the bigtime

Deduct a lot for being a 6 and unrestored, but still far from cheap

Mr_Shiftright

The Ferrari 456M GTA seems to be sliding in value, so $60K might do it.

That Benz 3.5 Cab might pull very good money because it has all the right options and is a low miles car. Downside is that it was repainted. Let's say 350K. Value is still very strong here.

One the 6 cylinder version, $140K should do it. It has AC which is a bonus. Value trend is flat.

ab348

Bid to $14K, reserve not met so no sale. Owner must be really attached to it because that is strong money for this.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0118-311581/1979-oldsmobile-98-regency/

stickguy

Now that interior is something. Nice bordello red

PF_Flyer

Matinee movie iron

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

The Ferrari 456M GTA seems to be sliding in value, so $60K might do it.

That Benz 3.5 Cab might pull very good money because it has all the right options and is a low miles car. Downside is that it was repainted. Let's say 350K. Value is still very strong here.

One the 6 cylinder version, $140K should do it. It has AC which is a bonus. Value trend is flat.

On my flight back from LA over the holidays, I was watching back episodes of the TV show "Million Dollar Listing LA", about the high end real estate market there.

One of the realtors featured drives a low grille MB like that from the listing posted. I figured it was a $250K car, minimum.

He also drives an early 70's RR Shadow convertible.

The annual maintenance costs on those two would likely pay my mortgage for a whole year.

fintail

If anyone remembers the quite underrated 90s comedy "Clifford", there was a nice low grille cabrio driven by a main character:



Not sure if it was a 3.5. No doubt a lot less expensive 25 years ago.

I don't think maintenance on one would be awful - fuel bills will be more. But for an old Shadow/Corniche, yeah, watch out for the brake system, it can eat 8-10K in one gulp, I think.

Mr_Shiftright

70s Shadows are actually going down in value. Auctions show 13% slip just last year. $40K should be all the money.

imidazol97

Saw one of these today. Truly timeless styling.
License plate was two letters followed by "97" so I'm guessing it was indeed a 1997 model.

texases

fintail said:

If anyone remembers the quite underrated 90s comedy "Clifford", there was a nice low grille cabrio driven by a main character:



Not sure if it was a 3.5. No doubt a lot less expensive 25 years ago.

I don't think maintenance on one would be awful - fuel bills will be more. But for an old Shadow/Corniche, yeah, watch out for the brake system, it can eat 8-10K in one gulp, I think.

The bad guy on a Columbo episode also drove one similar, couldn't tell you the exact year.

Ah, here 'tis:

fintail

Assuming the sidemarker is stock, that's a 68-69 car - IIRC low grille took over for 70, although it could be 69 production and sometimes titled as such in other markets. That's a nice color combo. There's a pretty light blue one with a blue top in my area, I've even seen it in the rain before.

And a 280SE cabrio (late run high grille, 68-69) was the featured car in "The Hangover":



Although by 2009, values on cabrios had increased so much that I have read the cars in the movie were chopped coupes. Funny thing, when I was in the fintail, a guy came up to me and said "it's like the car from The Hangover" - as from a straight-on front view, I guess they are similar.

ab348

texases said:

The bad guy on a Columbo episode also drove one similar, couldn't tell you the exact year.

Ah, here 'tis:

"Blueprint for Murder", a good episode from 1972. Patrick O'Neal always made for a good bad guy. Suave, sophisticated, but usually greedy and just slimy enough to be lethal.

uplanderguy

Is that side molding on the green Benz legitimate?

uplanderguy

Beautiful Olds. Of course with that mileage, count on needing all new rubber parts under the hood (I didn't read any text about the car anyplace). I look at a car like that, and it makes me wonder why anyone ever felt the need to have cars larger than that. So much trimmer than a '76, and other than width, most likely more leg-and-head room.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Beautiful Olds. Of course with that mileage, count on needing all new rubber parts under the hood (I didn't read any text about the car anyplace). I look at a car like that, and it makes me wonder why anyone ever felt the need to have cars larger than that. So much trimmer than a '76, and other than width, most likely more leg-and-head room.

It supposedly has only 1800 miles, which explains the price to some extent. Still, that brings its own set of problems.

fintail

If you mean the wheelarch trim, no, not stock. A popular aftermarket item, especially in the 70s and 80s, now known as a rust nest. I generally keep walking when I see cars with it.

uplanderguy said:

Is that side molding on the green Benz legitimate?

berri

A pair of 59 Chevy 4 doors - where are the flat tops! Fin, that MB is back from when I liked their uniqueness. They stood out amongst the traffic in those days. As for the Olds - lotsa red

uplanderguy

The one dark green Benz in your one link above has a bright body side molding that I've never seen on a similar Benz before.

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24452/lot/90/?category=list&length=10&page=9

ab348

uplanderguy said:

The one dark green Benz in your one link above has a bright body side molding that I've never seen on a similar Benz before.

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24452/lot/90/?category=list&length=10&page=9

Hmm. Here is a closeup of that:




In looking online I found a few, not many but enough, 280SE cabrios with a full-length bright metal side molding to think that it must have been available. But this one definitely looks non-factory.

fintail

I suspect it could be a dealer-installed thing, maybe even specific to the NA market, or at least with a higher take rate here. I see it in several pics too. Or maybe a special order item. I've also seen similar molding on fintails, especially cars after around 1965.

The earlier (and very complex, expensive to restore, etc) W112 300SE had factory side trim and wheelarch trim:





W112 fintails also had more chrome garnish, suitable for this top of the range car:

texases

So that's where Beverly Hills Automotive got the idea!

fintail

That's the look - light yellow 107 (maybe a "palomino" interior) - late run 450SL or 380SL, chrome bundts, chrome arches - quite chic around 1980.

I've seen more than a couple of these with wire wheels too, which would even do more for that look.

Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories was also a retailer of AMG parts, before it became part of MB.

Mr_Shiftright

It sorta fits the car's image, though. As W. C. Fields once said of Mae West: "A plumber's idea of Cleopatra".

uplanderguy

Back to the Olds Ninety-Eight...

I can plainly remember when I saw my first two new '77 Caprice Classics out back of Bob Mayberry Chevrolet in Sharon, PA. One was a white Estate wagon, and the other a two-tone gray/silver coupe with that bright red velour interior--same color as that Olds. Both cars had a small crowd of people around them. At the time, I couldn't believe a Chevy could have an interior that plush (although it wasn't a pillowed seat like that Olds). I loved the chromed-plastic area behind the door handles. I've often thought that had I ever bought a Caprice with the standard interior I'd have probably bought those escutcheons at the parts dept. to put in.

Remember this interior on Bonnevilles of that era? I probably couldn't have lived with it daily, but I think I could like it on a hobby car, as long as the exterior trim was as simple as I could get on a Bonneville:

https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/valencia-option-001-e1331162128581.jpg

It came in a red. I found a pic online but for some reason was unable to post the link here.

ab348

My '78 Delta 88 I bought in '97 was a base model and didn't have the chrome escutcheons for the interior door handles. But it needed some interior bits because of the bad fading the GM red plastic inside experienced after 20 years. Fortunately they were plentiful in junkyards here at the time and I got a lot of pieces including that chrome trim. Some SEM plastic dye and the red looked fresh, while the chrome brightened things considerably. It was amazing what I found for that car in wrecking yards the first few years I had it.

fintail

I like the angular GM downsized cars without vinyl tops - which I guess is difficult, as I suspect metal top = base model, and nobody wanted that. The top on that red 98 is somewhat difficult. I suppose some Buicks and Pontiacs sometimes lacked vinyl.

explorerx4

From what I have read, they put on vinyl tops so they didn't have to finish the greenhouse as nicely, saving money.

ab348

PF_Flyer said:

Matinee movie iron

You seemed to stump us all with that one.

fintail

That makes sense. I've read something similar about fintails - the higher models have chrome fins, the lower line cars do not, but the chrome trim required less sheetmetal finishing, less labor than the bare metal models.

explorerx4 said:

From what I have read, they put on vinyl tops so they didn't have to finish the greenhouse as nicely, saving money.

berri

Regarding those first few years of the 77 GM big car downsizing, besides the basic post sedans, I think the other model where I'd seen non vinyl tops were the fastback 2 doors like Pontiac and Buick in those early years. The later squared off 2 door top models were usually vinyl as I remember at least.

fintail

I was thinking of this fairly handsome design:

fintail

These "sport coupes" often have no vinyl, or a subtle half vinyl top only at front - the cool rear window makes up for that:

stickguy

I am not a "big car" guy, but I love the design on the Buick.

fintail

I find the angularity of those cars quite pleasing. Nice design, and from what I understand, good cars.

berri

My 76 Cutlass Supreme also had a kind of cool rear window. Must have been a GM design thing back then. Those big GM fastbacks still look sharp today and the sports coupes you displayed also look good. Man how I yearn for some good old fashion clean auto designs nowadays.

Michaell

berri said:

Man how I yearn for some good old fashion clean auto designs nowadays.

And I'm sure the guys in the 1970's were 'yearning' for the designs from the 40's and 50's....

fintail

In the rainy evening commute today I spotted an Allante and a customized 70s Bronco.

uplanderguy

My very first car was a bright red '77 Impala coupe like the green coupe in fintail's post above. It had been my parents' car new and I got it as a graduation present in May '80 when I graduated college and my parents had bought a new '80 Monte Carlo. I drove it until Jan. '81 when I traded on a new '81 Monte Carlo (which I thought was waaaayyy better-looking than the '80). My mother, particularly, was a little sore I was trading in their graduation present, but I told her I wouldn't have been able to buy a new car without it--and that was true.

I'm a big fan of the '77-79 big Chevy coupes. I would love a '77 (cleanest front and rear styling of the three years IMHO) with F41, the bigger tires, no vinyl top, no side molding and just a pinstripe at the top of the body sides. I like the plastic, scooped-out spoke wheelcovers too. The Impala had a ridiculous instrument panel though--lots of hard plastic right at eye level. The Caprice panel was a lot better IMHO, with woodgrain and piano-black shiny panel above the glovebox--a nice respite from all woodgrain.

That Catalina coupe above is a nice-looking car. I don't remember seeing any trimmed like that around where I lived. I actually like the exterior better than the Bonneville-no skirts, and no rocker trim about 1/3 of the way up the side! The Catalina had a nice instrument panel, but the seating was plain--even plainer than an Impala IMHO.

uplanderguy

And I'm sure the guys in the 1970's were 'yearning' for the designs from the 40's and 50's....

Probably, but today I just really don't even care about cars. There's not a thing that works me up when I've rented a car or gone to look at cars. A fairly-base C7 in a dark color is probably the thing that would do it the most for me now.

I do remember my Dad, who bought a new '77 Chevy coupe, saying that the rust-colored, sharp '57 Bel Air our dealer had in the showroom with two new '77 Chevys (it had been traded on a new Blazer), was "the best-looking car they have there".

uplanderguy

Those '77-79 Chevy coupes were graceful in profile, I always thought. I like the nameplates in the notched area behind the quarter windows too--somewhat unusual. So many had the 'three planes' of trim on the side though--rocker trim (wide on Caprices), the optional body side moldings (probably 95% had this option), and optional pinstriping. If I could go back, I'd buy one without the body side moldings and just be more careful about where I parked, LOL.

GM makes often displayed photos of the cars in the brochures without the body side moldings--knowing they looked cleaner this way. I even remember '71 and/or '72 Electras being displayed that way in the sales brochure.

Even though we (and I) owned one, the worst angle of those '77-79 Chevy coupes was straight-on from the back. The cars had very little "tumblehome" as they called it (curved sides) and while that wraparound window looked great in profile IMHO, it was a bit awkward from the rear.

uplanderguy

I'd like a coupe, but with this level of trim:

https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/77CapriceMTPop.jpeg

kyfdx

I'm about the same age as @uplanderguy , and I don't ever remember yearning for '40s or '50s vehicles.
'60s muscle cars? Sure.

I guess that if you were in your 50s or 60s in the '70s, you might have yearned for the old days... but, I don't remember anyone saying that..

ab348

explorerx4 said:

From what I have read, they put on vinyl tops so they didn't have to finish the greenhouse as nicely, saving money.

I think it worked in reverse. Back then the meeting of the roof and pillars was finished using lead which was a very labor-intensive technique on the line. When vinyl tops started becoming popular in the mid-60s I'm sure the bodies were finished just the same was as all others, but eventually the light bulb went on that they didn't need the same level of finish if a vinyl top was going on there, so they probably came up with a way to ID those bodies as they were being worked on in the body plant.

Of course nowadays they don't bother to finish those seams at all as we as consumers have agreed with our wallets to accept filler strips in those areas, sometimes not even in body color. I think that began with Japanese cars. A step backwards.

berri

I don't think cars are really designed for car people anymore. The younger millennials are more about tech and grew up with things like Anime, so I think that is the influencer in design studios today. Can't blame the car companies really, they are a bigger population than Boomers and have many more years of buying ahead. Any doubt, look at the new, lowered Camry and Accord.

uplanderguy

Speaking of "lowered"....

I have had my '17 Cruze LT one year today and have just under 12,800 miles. Satisfied customer for sure after one year.

BUT...this car, and the '11 Malibu we had before, both are waaayyyyy too easy to scrape the bottom of the front fascia, when parking or pulling into a parking space. What's up with that?

uplanderguy

Speaking of seams--when my '81 Monte Carlo was stolen, I was given a rental car for thirty days before I settled with my insurance company. I had an '81 or '82 Mercury "Cougar", which at that point was really the Fairmont-based car that was sold opposite the Granada. It was a two-door.

At the time, compared with my Monte Carlo, I remember thinking it seemed incredibly cheap. It had a horizontal seam at eye level on the C-pillar, filled in with a piece of fiberglass or plastic trim. The car was a six-cylinder and had one wheelcover missing, where I could see that only four lugnuts held the wheel on.

I know it could be argued that Fords were mechanically superior then, but on first-impression stuff GM had it all over them I think. One thing outside that opinion is the no-roll-down back windows in GM intermediate sedans--inexcusably dumb.

fintail

When I was a little kid in the early 80s, maybe 4 or 5 years old, someone a couple doors down had an Impala or Caprice "Sport Coupe" like those shown, with the glassy rear window. Even then, it caught my eye, I remember looking at it.

When I was a little older, into the mid-late 80s, the only new cars that really got me going were German cars and exotics. I had more of a thing for old cars - and in this area, 50s and 60s material was still a common sight then. I kind of regret that I didn't pay much attention to some of the oddball Japanese cars still on the road, many of which are heading for unicorn status, but now being saved.

uplanderguy

Back to seams--I mentioned this recently about the '77 or '78 new Coupe deVille I saw with no vinyl top, but I was disappointed then to see file marks around the B-pillar and quarter window.

omarman

kyfdx said:

I'm about the same age as @uplanderguy , and I don't ever remember yearning for '40s or '50s vehicles. '60s muscle cars? Sure.

That's the way it was. I remember hearing guys say back then, "I don't like anything newer than '72." Seemed like that was like a demarcation line between performance cars and the the smog/nader-safety era. Generally that's what the muscle car auctions reflect even now.

But for my dad and his friends raised during the depression the 70's Cadillacs and Lincolns seemed to suit them fine. The only thing they seemed to find lacking was chrome and shiny bling. JC Whitney must have made a mint selling "dress up" accessories for big Detroit iron back then.

Up until 1977, mom and dad kept a 1950 Chevrolet that they bought from friends in 1953 as a spare car. One of my dad's friends had a well-kept 50's Packard in his garage. And he had other friends who kept old beasts like that for nostalgia but all of them loved their new cars more.

For example my uncle Allen, for all his talk about the "good old days," was in love with his new 1973 Imperial like nothing else he had ever owned on wheels. He kept it like new until he passed about 15 years later.

It really is a different world now. What ever the "car thing" meant to my dad's generation or mine, it seems like the "car thing" is over now.

kyfdx

1973 was the beginning of the big bumper era. No chrome on the front bumper of the ‘73 Vette. Both ends started the next year.

‘72 was first year of new net horsepower ratings. 310 hp became 230 hp, even if the actual power hadn’t changed.