I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

iownacar

saw one in a small strip mall in suburban Fort Lauderdale,fl.also saw a Yugo gv in an orlando apartment complex

andys120

From the sublime to the wretched, eh.

fintail

That 560SL was at a Hyundai dealership, no paragon of insight. I stopped to check it out, and another looky-loo was admiring it. A salesperson came out, and the looky-loo asked how many cylinders it had. The salesman had to open the hood and count the wires...I am not kidding.

That's too much for a 560SEL that "needs work", they are complex cars, esp the 560, and they can cost a fortune to get right. An immaculate one shouldn't set one back much more than in the region of 10K or so...and the engine alone can make a 3.5K car cost 10K. I still remember the most beautiful low mileage diamond blue '89 560SEL going on ebay for 12K. The W126 platform that the 560SEL shares with all 80s S class cars is arguably the best ever all around sedan of the 20th century, and is considered by many enthusiasts to be MBs last great sedan of that style. The new ones just don't have the timeless looks and the solid engineering. I've seen a 560SEL with over 550K miles on it.

tanklicker

I saw a late 60's Espada!!! Extremely cool!!!

andys120

We've all seen the pink sedans they give to top sales performers except this one wasn't really pink. It was almost white and depending on the angle and distance it appeared to have more or less of a pink tint in the white. I almost thought I liked the color until I got with 5 or 6 feet and then it looked quite a bit pinker.

Obviously it was one of those multi-hue paint jobs with layers of different colors, haven't seen anything like it before.

Mr_Shiftright

I think a rebuild on a 560SEL V-8 would actually be about $16,000 here in California @ $105/hr labor rates. So replacing the engine would be about double the retail value of the car. Crazy world ain't it?

fintail

Imagine a rebuild in something like a 450SEL 6.9 relative to value of the car. It has to be even worse.

MB specialist I know charges $50 or $60/hr I think...glad I am not in CA.

andyman73

One of my neighbors got rid of his "last year made" model Camero SS. Now has a late 40s sea green Pontiac. Haven't been close enough to see what model. Paint and chrome shines, so is well cared for. Is garage kept. His other "daily driver" is an SVT Focus.

Andrew

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Mr_Shiftright

40s cars are a tough sell, for me at least, because for the most part these cars are just slightly re-baked pre World War II cars and they are pretty primitive. Exceptions being the Olds and Cadillac with the new short-stroke ohv V-8 technology. Even the more "modern looking" cars of 1949 are still plugging along with old flatheads or straight-sixes or eights from before the war.

GM was by far more modern in 1949 than the others, and we even see power steering and automatic transmissions and a/c. 40s Buicks were pretty nice, too. I think a well equipped Olds turtle back would be fun, but a manual steering Pontiac with a column shift would be an acquired taste for me.

IMHO, the years 1937-47 and 1976-86 were low spots in the American auto industry, with only a very very few bright spots in there. 1917-1927 wasn't so hot either. Interesting that they bracket the two World Wars and 76-86 is right after Vietnam. The DEMAND was there but not the imagination it seems.

1995-2005 seems like a Golden Age in comparison.

andre1969

just curious why you picked '76 as the first year of that second low spot? I figured a guy like you would've written off the 70's in their entirety! Well, except maybe '70-71...

kyfdx

I think he was looking at decade long periods.. I'd think the crap started in '74 myself... There were still some nice cars up through '73.

regards,
kyfdx

andre1969

but in the 70's, GM actually moved faster with regards to anticipating the market and coming out with more modern cars than probably any time before or after. At least, that's how they were regarded at the time. But not necessarily through modern eyes, looking back on those dark days.

It still cracks me up that in the Consumer Reports tests of some of GM's downsized 1977 big cars, their list under "Advantages" is longer than the script to Gone with the Wind. But under "Disadvantages", they just put "None significant enough to mention". That's probably about the only time in history that they held so much praise for a GM product!

kyfdx

Also thought the VW Rabbit was the greatest car ever invented.

Mr_Shiftright

My "dating" is a bit arbitrary but I think I must have unconconsciously hung it on 1976 because that's when things got REALLY bad. I'm sure one could argue 1975 just as well---that's when so many cars turned evil, with ugly rubber bumpers, really strangled engines and very ho-hum styling.

It's all too easy to practice "20-20 hindsight" when viewing past history, because we of the present, looking back, don't fall for all the miscues and false info and badly placed bets. But people in 1975 didn't have that information. They might have seen hope where in fact there was only failure coming. It's like the people who look back at Pearl Harbor and say "couldn't they see the clues?". Well, sure, but there were also lots of distractions and false information (as we know now) that got in the way of judgment back then. Everybody knew for instance, that you can't drop torpedoes from planes in shallow water. But if you use wooden fins that break off when the torpedo hits the water, the weapon doesn't dive as deep. Uh-oh, New tech changes the world once again!

Same with auto executives in 1975, and with car magazines. They were projecting a lot of their own hopes and prejudices and playing a lot of hunches, many of which proved dead wrong. The car industry was ripe for change, and some companies changed faster than others. Consider the dinosaur.

lemko

Well, the 1937-47 era had two things against it - the Depression, most notably a severe relapse of the bad economy in late 1937-38, and World War II. I can think of three excellent cars that were part of that era - the 1940-41 Lincoln Continental, the 1937 Cord 812, and the 1938-41 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special - Bill Mitchell's masterpiece.

I think the really dark car era of the '70s and '80s was actually longer. I believe things started to slip as early as 1970 and everything fell into the toilet in 1973. I don't believe the industry really crawled out of the cesspool until 1992. To be brutally honest, I think the only truly great car from that whole period was the 1986-91 Mercedes S-Class.

The two greatest car eras were the Classic Era from 1929-36 and 1955-1970.

andre1969

earlier in the decade, at least, is that it seemed like every new model that came out was worse than the model it replaced. I think this was especially true at GM, when they redesigned their big and mid-sized cars in 1971 and 1973, respectively. The "1970 1/2" Camaro also seemed shoddier than the '67-69's. Probably the only GM model to carry on relatively unscathed was the Nova, but it was pretty much the same car from '68-79 anyway, so maybe that's why. But wait, the Nova was replaced in April '79 by...the Citation! So I guess my theory does hold up, for the most part!

But now when some of those other models were downsized...the big cars in '77, the intermediates in '78, and the Eldo/Toro/Riv in '79, they did seem to be much improved in many ways over their predecessors. Especially in fit and finish, rust resistance, etc.

kyfdx

in '76, didn't it? I looked at a new one, and it could be had as a hatchback.. That had to be different from the '68-'73.

regards,
kyfdx

andre1969

It looked like a whole new car, but was the same underneath, structurally and mechanically. I thought they did a wonderful job of updating it though. I always thought a '75 Nova made just about any other car of the time look obsolete...especially if you put it up against its main competition, like a '75 Dart or a '75 Granada or Maverick!

The Nova was available as a 2-door hatchback in both the '73-74 style and the '75-79 style.

kyfdx

I never see one of that vintage that isn't "crabbing" down the road, though... Frame rust?

lancerfixer

A flourescent, lime green Lamborghini Murcielago.

Huh?

I realize the Lambo was never the elegant cousin to the Ferrari (I've always thought of it as an Italian Corvette at many times the price) but lime green?

Ugh.

andys120

have been since the Miura which featured lime green, a loud yellow and orange among others. IIRC there were even some metallic purple ones.

IMO most Lambos wear those colors well, the Miura certainly did.
--------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile in NH where Alfas are rarely seen, I spotted two in one 10 mile drive home:

-'67-'73 GTV coupe, didn't get close enough to tell which motor but since it was a 70s color like the Positano Yellow on my old Fiat Spider (Mustard Yellow) it was prolly a 2000GTV.

-164LS sedan, nice and straight in black, still have yours Shifty?

fintail

I saw a Miura emblem, it looked pretty cool.

I was looking for some MB on ebay last night, and caught a couple oddballs:

This is interesting...very early 6.3, euro car with the odd velour again. Looks good enough, but that rust spot really gives me a bad feeling.

I think this is somehow more interesting. 22 years ago, this is what AMG was producing. Most of these got thrashed, very rare to see one this nice. Can't say I like the monochrome treatment though

ghulet

...that 6.3 has way too many red flags for me, among them:

-70s MB steering wheel and column, incorrect for a '68; I think that only showed up on the very last of that series S-class (early '73), on which you would have seen the newer style gated shifter, correct?
-those window switches and their location are wrong, clearly aftermarket
-doesn't the Km/h speedometer indicate a non-U.S. spec car?
-the velour looks nice enough, but a lot of things make me think it's a transplant as well, mainly the console.

I don't know if you can run/decode the VIN, but this car, even if it is a genuine factory 6.3, looks like a hack job to me. I dunno, maybe the Euro-spec cars came this way and I just haven't seen enough. Fintail?

I used to LOVE AMGs of that era when I was a kid. The only ones I'd ever see were a burgandy 380 or 500SEL (belonged to our local drug kingpin) and a super white monochromatic 300E (belonged to a local rock star, who also owned a stock Smoke Silver 420SEL). Those AMGs weren't cars that even your standard everyday rich folks could afford back then.

I have to pick on the interior of that particular example, looks like it has seats from a 190E 2.3-16, and without headrests. Me no likey. Otherwise, that looks like a pretty decent example.

Mr_Shiftright

Nope, no more Alfa 164. I have a BMW 735i and a Porsche 928 that I just bought. I think I'm going to ditch the 735i now and get a vintage panel or pickup truck of some kind. I'm still sniffing around that Lancia Flaminia 4-door, too.

jrosasmc

You sold the Alfa 164? I bet it didn't have a lot of miles on it. Anyway, I wish you well with your '80 928 purchase and hope it treats you well.

On the other hand while looking around the local European used car dealership here I spotted a clean, not too bad '74 Mercedes 450SL. I did note that it did not have the original Becker radio in it; it was an aftermarket thing. I'm thinking those Beckers were not a lot of fun to work with, even by early '70s standards.

Speaking of which, whenever I see an old 450SL here on American highways they tend to be driven at a leisurely speed, like 55-60 mph. But when I was in Europe, I constantly saw those things being driven quite hard, at around 90+ mph, especially in Germany, France, etc. But that's what they were built to do eh?

fintail

The steering wheel also caught my eye in that 6.3. It sure looks like a W116 unit to me. To be honest though, I have seen that wheel in a W109...the MB specialist I know had a late 300SEL 4.5, and it had the wheel. I don't know if it was original though. I have also seen a fintail with the same wheel, which is so wrong. The big thin rimmed wheels are a part of the charm of those cars.

The kmh speedo goes with the velour interior, both of which as far as I know were never sold on US market cars. It's a Euro car without a doubt. I dunno about the VIN...were they standardized by 1968? I know people who sell grey market cars on ebay have problems with their VIN database, which doesn't account for non NA market cars.

The pattern on the rear seats of that 500SEL is correct for the year, the front seats are confusing. Maybe they are coupe seats? Those had the horizontal panelling as opposed to the tight vertical stitching seen on the rear seats. I wouldn't think 190 seats would be the same width. The headrests easily pop off and might actually be with the car. I really don't like that steering wheel in the car either...AMG usually had their own custom units.

So Shifty bought the 928! What color is it?

andre1969

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2483914633

andys120

Whatever floats yer boat Andre...

andre1969

I didn't mean that in a good way! This thing is muy hideoso!!

seminole_kev

Yesterday on the way home from work, I saw an early 80's (late 70's?) Ford Farimont coupe in light blue. Body looked to be in good shape. Ugly, pedestrian looking car...but someone had taken care of it.

michaellno

Pimp my police cruiser!

Nothing of interest spotted here in Denver in the past few days....

Mr_Shiftright

The 928 is "ticket me red".

I don't normally like red cars but for this model it's really the best color they made I think. I think anything big and round-ish & sensuous looks better in a solid primary-type color while boxy or edgey or bullet-y cars look better in metallics.

Yeah, getting anyone to work on the Alfa was really a pain. Alfa "specialists" fall into two categories it seems.....well...THREE....there are crooks & incompetents, there are good mechanics who are incredibly lousy and inefficient businessmen and never succeed, and there are hermit-like eccentrics who know what they are doing but who have frequent binges or pyschotic fits. Just getting a major service was exhausting.

Now, my good friend owns a Porsche repair shop, is a 928 specialist, and this makes all the difference in owning a somewhat high-risk car like a 928. I expect the 928 to be more reliable than the Alfa, certainly a little faster, but major parts are going to be expensive.

I did follow my own advice though, and bought a car that had a Manhattan phone book-sized folder of maintenance history. Also had it checked out stem to stern for the usual 928 demons. Only fault that came up was a busted windshield washer switch and a little bit of heat leakage when you shut the heater off. For now, I just close the vent, and open a window or use the A/C. It's a bad heater valve or a vacuum leak to the line that controls it, so no biggie.

Oh, and there's this catalytic converter by-pass tube in the trunk....HMMMM>>>>>

Should be fun. Life is short, gotta follow your car bliss or end up old and bent over looking out the window at the pretty red cars goin' by, right?

lemko

...and look at those blingin' wheels and the Chrysler front end. Those headrest-mounted TV screens with Nintendo look odd in a car with mere crank windows.

kyfdx

sitting at a BHPH lot just down the road from me.. but, its been there a looonnnnggg time.. I pulled over and looked at it.. I'm betting it no longer runs. A great looking car for a sedan, though.

jrosasmc

Spotted at the local pizza place 10 minutes ago: a mint-looking '76 Alfa Alfetta 2000 Sports Sedan, and I kid you not. I spoke briefly with the owner and I was told that this car had undergone a total restoration two years ago and has 88k original miles on it. I mean, for a '76 Alfa, it was in really great condition and not a scratch or rust spot was to be seen on it. But- why anybody would want to restore one of Alfa's lesser-known creations is beyond me.

wimsey1

at least you have your eyes open and realistic expectations. That usually saves a lot of emotional anguish.

every day on my commute I see a nice red Chevy II 2dr and a '66 Impala coupe also red. I think both are for sale.

seminole_kev

Saw this yesterday for the first time....well I saw it online at least. Never seen this photo before. It is a one off, styling exercise by Jaguar. Something along the line of a Mark I coupe. Absolutely beautiful in my opinion. I'd love to have something like that.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/include/iv.php3?in=/q/1~1091011820.jpg

fintail

Good luck with the 928 . I loved those when I was a kid, I thought they looked amazing. Does it have the big-hole wheels as earlier ones did?

andys120

Very cool, Kev, I've never seen it before, very cool!

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, has the big hole wheels but someone painted them a rather drab color of silver. That's on my list. The 1980 model has "only" 220 HP but I've noticed already it has gobs of torque in there way down low. You can easily start off in 2nd gear and break the speed limit easily at 1,800 rpm in 5th gear. Very different from driving the 911/993/996.

RE: Alfettas -- you know, I never "got" this car either. It was one of those automobiles that helped to sink Alfa's reputation in America.

Having serious researched Alfa sedans (4-doors), there's no "ideal" car there. The Milano Verde would be great but it is a bit complex; the 164s are fast and more modern in every way than the Milano but, after all, still a FWD--to me, the kiss of death for tail-wagging, slip sliding fun unless maybe you are ice-racing or something. The older Berlinas are okay but with a face only a mother could love.

andys120

Thursday I reported sighting a 164LS and a GTV coupe on my way home, last night I spotted a
Milano and an early 90's Spider. Today I saw like 5 Spiders, the same Milano and the same 164LS. Clearly there is an Alfa event of some kind in the area, perhaps a TSD rallye.

What a nice treat, that's more Alfas than I usually see in a year!

BTW, Shifty I've always liked the look of the Alfa Berlinas, they have a kind of bulldog, "don't mess with me" toughness about them.

Perhaps the best looking of all was the Alfetta sedan of the 70s, thought that one looked more sleek than tough. I never warmed up to the 75/Milano with it's disjointed lines.

Best of luck with your new 928. A 1980 would have the original styling, I think.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I've always thought of Alfas as pretty cars, and so, relatively speaking that is, the Berlina is really coyote ugly no matter which angle you look at it. Actually I've never stood on a ladder and looked DOWN at it. Maybe that would help. Somehow, it looks remarkably like an early 60s Japanese car, an Italian Toyopet or something. The homely child doesn't look so bad unless they come from a beautiful family and are all together in the potrait. (geez, why didn't they fix his teeth?)

I saw a 70s Jaguar XJ6 sedan with wire wheels and it totally re-affirmed my belief that this car does not look good in wires. Wheels are too small. I imagine a Porsche 928 would look even worse.

Saw a Fiat 2000 Spider Turbo, a pretty rare car. This specification cures a lot of 124 ills, but unfortunately creates other ills. Cream color with tannish/brown pin stripping and butter colored leather interior. Looked really nice. Obviously someone had spent about 5 times the value of the car on it, but they looked happy.

fintail

A 928 would look horrible in wires. The early large hole wheels or the spoked wheels of late 928s seem to suit the car best.

andys120

928s still look modern is that they had the bumpers built into the bodywork, fromt and rear with no chrome or rubber showing.

Can we at least agree that Alfa Berlinas are pretty compared to contemporary Italian fourdoors, say a Fiat 124 sedan vs. an Alfa
1600 Berlina?

Mr_Shiftright

Forgive me andy, I can't use "pretty" and "Alfa Berlina" in the same sentence--LOL!

Okay, okay, it's prettier than a banana slug!

Here's one just before they bondo it and send it to America!

http://home.zonnet.nl/joostperriens/AlfaBerlina.jpg

andyman73

That's a great pic there, Shifty, I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! BTW, there is an Alfa in my younger brother's neighborhood. I will have to go by and check it out, and update you all. It looks like an 80s or newer sedan.

fintail

Ebay time:

This is an odd piece

If you have an MG, you need one of these too

"The Model 66 had a lower and sleeker look"...yeah, it sure did

Strange

A good $7500 city runabout

Ha, I wonder what it would take to get this back together

Nicer Fuego than most. When these were new, I thought they were really nice

Strange LeCar

I've always liked this style of Packard...I think it would technically be a 1941 1/2 too

Expensive and amusing

Why is this in NA? It has to be more in demand in Europe. Nicest early CX I've seen

This looks nice

Hey Andre, it's only a little over $100!

Kind of an odd description. I especially like "EFI designed by NASA for Iaccoca to provide 25-30 MPH on 2 ton vehicle."...LOL

Mr_Shiftright

'54 Singer: Hmmmm...is it just a coincidence that the current high bidder's user ID is "junkman"? The seller must think that all '54 open British cars are automatically MGTFs. Not so fast grasshopper. A bid of $7,500 would be plenty for this somewhat homely thing. Hard sell, weird car, the word "competition" is fairly amusing. Singer's glory, such as it was, was lonnnnnnggggg past in 1954.

MERCEDES "SHOW" ENGINE: Risky business here, as sometimes display engines conveniently leave out little pieces to save weight, like pistons and crankshafts. Hopefully to be purchased for display only.

PEERLESS: In their day, a VERY well respected car. The "THREE Ps" of American prestige were Packard, Pierce-Arrow and Peerless. However, they are also valuable in that order as a rule. A car worthy of restoration but you have to keep your hat on and not spend too much.

MURENA GT: I'm surprised anybody bid on this odd-ball, but as they say, there's an ____ for every seat. I was also a bit surprised to see the comment of "nearly perfect condition" when I was able to easily spot defects in just about every photo, from the degraded floor mat to damaged shifter knob to dried up tires to dents in the grillework. And what a strange presentation! No opening photo in the auction and (cleverly?) hiding the butt end of this Italian bread van. No thanks. Must sound like the hammers of hell inside that body when all V-8 pots are boiling!

1974 ROLLS: How much to fix it up? Probably much much wiser to just go buy a nice one and save $$$. Brake work is an easy $8,000, paint work about the same, woodwork $2,000, and...WAIT! We are already at retail for a mint one ready to drive. What is the point? Why do you think you see so many Rollers that need work for sale?

Renault LeCar: That'd be fun for about $500. I'd bid that. Anything more and you're pushing your luck.

Nauticabuono: What the hell? And what do you do with it, enter it in a car freak show? I liked the part about "Prince rainier is driving one now". I MUST go to Monaco and see him doing that---LOL! True value of this hardware? Hmmmm....If he got a bid of $15,000--$20,000 he should take it. That's Amphicar and Fiat Jolly and circus car money, the price level where all the weird-wheels live. His reserve is unrealistic beyond words. Maybe in a drunken orgy at Barrett-Jackson he could get more? Kinda doubt it.

CITROEN 15: Neat old car, and the 15 is the one to have because of the big 6 engine--you might actually get out of your own way on a modern American highway. On the downside, parts are tough and the transmissons are delicate---one push start and you're in overhaul time. I'd bid about $5,000 on it tops if I were looking for a French old-timey car. Restored you can find them for around $8,000-$10,000, so you can see you need to be careful.

Andre's 1980 Chrysler: My favorite line in that ad: "Radio works good sometimes but doesn't work at all". Only an optimist can talk like that!

fintail

I was joking about the Rolls. It's like finding an old MB in a similar state. It's always cheaper to find a nice original car than to fix up a beater, when you are dealing with old luxury sedans.

A Citroen 15 like that would be on my list if I had unlimited funds to buy everything I like. But realistically, others come first.